Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2]


Bob Shane is done after 47 years (2004)

DigiTrad:
SCOTCH AND SODA
THEY'RE RIOTING IN AFRICA (THE MERRY MINUET)


Related threads:
Lyr Add: Merry Minuet (Kingston Trio/Harnick) (15)
(origins) Origins: Where is Banua, anyway? (8)
Revisionist opinion on the Kingston Trio (127)
Obit: RIP Bob Shane (1934-2020) - Kingston Trio (14)
Lyr Add: Toerau (Kingston Trio: Sold Out album) (14)
Lyr Req: O Ken Karanga (Kingston Trio) (8)
Chord Req: Mission San Miguel (13)
The Kingston Trio is Releasing a NEW CD (21)
Kingston trio--a place in history (55)
Chord Req: Scotch and Soda correct chords-intro- (4)
Lyr Add: Mark Twain (from Kingston Trio) (7)
ADD: Merry Minuet and REQ Story of Alice (10)
Lyr Req: Desert Pete (Billy Edd Wheeler) (18)
Lyr Add: Reverend Mr. Black (Kingston Trio) (3)
Lyr Add: El Matador (Kingston Trio) (5)
Review: Kingston Trio Review on PBS (14)
Lyr Add: Oh Sail Away (from Kingston Trio) (5)
Bob Shane (KT3) program archived (1)
Bob Shane interview Feb 19 '06 (20)
Help: Meaning: Road to Freedom (Kingston Trio) (2)
Lyr Req: Who's Gonna Hold Her Hand (Kingston Trio) (13)
Lyr Req: Molly Dee (from Kingston Trio) (6)
(origins) Origins: If You Don't Look Around (Kingston Trio) (7)
Lyr Req: Coplas (Kingston Trio) (12)
Lyr Req: I Bawled (from Kingston Trio) (4)
Chord Req: Tijuana Jail (Kingston Trio) (2)
Lyr Req: River Run Down (Kingston Trio) (5)
Lyr Req: Bonyuwa? / Bunua? / Banua (Dave Guard) (12)
Lyr Add: I Bawled (Kingston Trio) (11)
Kingston Trio Archive (7)
Lyr Req: Take Pity on Her (KingstonTrio) (3)
Know sources out of print CD's? Kingston 3? (5)
Kingston Trio Alive & Well in MN! (11)
Lyr Req: Desert Pete (Kingston Trio) (6) (closed)
Lyr Req: Greenback Dollar (Kingston Trio) (3)
Lyr Req: Ballad of the Shape of Things (Kingston T (4)
Chords: Desert Pete (Wheeler/Kingston Trio) (13)


GUEST,Michael Flannery in lansdowne DELWARE county 08 Jul 18 - 05:01 AM
Stringsinger 14 Jan 13 - 06:02 PM
Elmore 14 Jan 13 - 05:27 PM
GUEST,Trout Pomeroy 14 Jan 13 - 05:20 PM
Once Famous 05 Mar 06 - 08:24 PM
SunnySister 05 Mar 06 - 06:28 PM
Joe Offer 05 Mar 06 - 03:34 AM
Anonny Mouse 04 Mar 06 - 10:13 PM
GUEST,John Coleman 04 Mar 06 - 08:44 PM
DonMeixner 27 Apr 04 - 04:12 PM
jimmyt 27 Apr 04 - 03:14 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 27 Apr 04 - 02:41 PM
Art Thieme 27 Apr 04 - 01:03 PM
Art Thieme 27 Apr 04 - 12:56 PM
Rasta 27 Apr 04 - 04:12 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 26 Apr 04 - 10:51 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 26 Apr 04 - 10:45 PM
Art Thieme 26 Apr 04 - 10:16 PM
Deckman 26 Apr 04 - 06:52 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 26 Apr 04 - 06:29 PM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 26 Apr 04 - 05:50 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 26 Apr 04 - 04:57 PM
Once Famous 26 Apr 04 - 04:39 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 26 Apr 04 - 04:34 PM
Deckman 26 Apr 04 - 04:30 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 26 Apr 04 - 04:09 PM
GLoux 26 Apr 04 - 04:07 PM
Don Firth 26 Apr 04 - 03:56 PM
Once Famous 26 Apr 04 - 03:49 PM
Rasta 26 Apr 04 - 03:36 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 26 Apr 04 - 03:12 PM
Sarah the flute 26 Apr 04 - 02:56 PM
Don Firth 26 Apr 04 - 02:50 PM
Steve-o 26 Apr 04 - 02:32 PM
GLoux 26 Apr 04 - 01:34 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 26 Apr 04 - 01:19 PM
Don Firth 26 Apr 04 - 01:02 PM
Dave Hanson 26 Apr 04 - 10:08 AM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 26 Apr 04 - 09:28 AM
Lady Hillary 26 Apr 04 - 09:04 AM
Folkiedave 25 Apr 04 - 07:14 PM
Once Famous 25 Apr 04 - 07:05 PM
Art Thieme 25 Apr 04 - 06:46 PM
Art Thieme 25 Apr 04 - 06:39 PM
Once Famous 25 Apr 04 - 06:24 PM
GUEST,Mary Katherine 25 Apr 04 - 05:29 PM
freightdawg 25 Apr 04 - 04:56 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 25 Apr 04 - 12:44 PM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Apr 04 - 12:43 PM
freightdawg 25 Apr 04 - 12:11 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: GUEST,Michael Flannery in lansdowne DELWARE county
Date: 08 Jul 18 - 05:01 AM

Dear Bob Shane IWOULD like me to tape letter to you it's been a long time seeing you
And for your memories I never forget meeting you at brandies whaft RESTURANT in philadephia talk about old times and playing that guitar you had in my family there were 2 other members who saw trio Peter yarrow my brother Sean and sister Maureen meet Mary travers I meet you that fair today yours songs in my house are played! In my jugement you were so kind of meet me in philadephia show I'll never forget you they were great show I would like tape letter back m y Email address is
Michael Flannery 60@i cloud. Com! The Kingston trio contuine in tradition but Bob Shane we will never forget you will pray to you everyday!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 06:02 PM

"If it weren't for the commercial interest that developed, we may not have had a folk revival."

I don't agree with this statement. Folk music was never dormant before the commercialization of it. There was plenty of interest in it, much of it fostered
by Left Wing activists which spawned many folklorists like Archie Green, Alan Lomax,
Ken Goldstein, and musician performers such as Pete Seeger, Bob Miller, Paul Robeson, Bess Lomax Hawes, Hally Wood, Aunt Molly Jackson, Florence Reese, Leadbelly, Woody Guthrie and early Burl Ives, Josh White, Rolf Cahn, Barbara Dane, Jo Mapes, Theo Bikel, Odetta, Cynthia Gooding, Tony Saletan, Derroll Adams, Ernie Lieberman, Win Stracke, Leon Bibb, Betty Sanders, Vera Hall, Richard Dyer Bennet, Tom Glazer, The Almanac Singers, Washington Square on sunday afternoons, many artists on Library of Congress field recordings such as McKinley Morganfield (AKA Muddy Waters) and the list is long with too many names to mention.

I argue that because a folk ballad is a form of journalism, sometimes highly political and controversial, the rise of the commercial aspects of folk music owe much to musical political activists like me. Remember that SingOut! was named after the Pete Seeger, Lee Hays song "If I Had a Hammer". Also, that the big hit for the KT was Bess Lomax Hawes and Jackie Alpert's song, "Charley on the M.T.A." which was written as a campaign song for Walter J. Obrien, Independent Progressive Party candidate for Boston's mayoral race and was introduced on a sound truck to promote him.

Sam Hinton in California recorded Vern Parlow's "Old Man Atom" which was squashed by the FCC at the time for being too "communist".   There was a substructure for the Folk Revival that predates the commercialism of the Sixties built from coast to coast by the Left. The vitality of the music was responsible for its popularity even before anyone had heard of the Weavers. It was precisely that folk music was a reaction to the commerciality of the music business that propelled its interest even into rock and roll. The Left was the perfect vehicle to foster this interest being anti-authoritarian, anti-commercial, and concerned with songs that had messages. Pete Seeger was a one man PR campaign for folk music and all the commercial groups that came after him owe him.

Union rallies often, though not plentifully, featured folk performers. We played events for Progressive functions raising money for various causes. In those days,
we called them "bookings".

What the great "Folk Scare" as Dave Van Ronk called it, was just the fact that because of the earlier vitality and interest, there were those who could cash in on it such as Al Grossman and other musical business managers. (He put together Peter, Paul and Mary.)

Also, the singer/songwriter was an outgrowth of publishers who found they didn't have to pay royalties to earlier substantial ASCAP lyricists and composers.

There was a folk revival taking place long before it hit the charts. The KT found a way to fuse the revival on a commercial level by combining it with the frat house audience. They just stepped in front of the parade.

If anything, the commercialization of "Mighty Wind" folk music sapped the vitality of the growth and weakened a real interest in authentic traditional music for many years. But it was always there and always will be regardless of who cashed in on it.

Bess Lomax Hawes started the first folk song guitar classes in the country and the Old Town School of Folk Music in Chicago still teaches many people about the medium, all before the commercialization of the "Folk Scare".

The revivalist aspect of folk can be attributed to a political "socialist" outlook typified by the early issues of SingOut! under the editorial policy of Irwin Silber.

Pete Seeger found his wings as a performer singing for the Henry Wallace campaign in front of thousands.

I give the ownership of the Revival to the Left, rather than the commercial music hucksters.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Elmore
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 05:27 PM

Great entertainer. Still love his version of "Scotch and Soda."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: GUEST,Trout Pomeroy
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 05:20 PM

Bob Shane is forever. From old albums to new CD releases available from The Kingston Trio website to satellite radio, his signature voice and uplifting spirit endure into eternity. Accessible, real, funny and quite gracious, Bob is there for those who visit the site, adding notes to product shipments, answering emails and supporting others' art. He also helps host annual Kingston Trio camps in Phoenix, glorious events that attract the truly devoted, pickers, players, admirers and legions of people like us whose lives were entirely transformed by the pure magic the Trio evoked in the studio and on stage. I love the guy.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Once Famous
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 08:24 PM

Yes, but Art thinks it's not folk music and none of us who loved that stuff and got started with it belong here.

Is this why I have been distancing myself from that element of the so called folk community?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: SunnySister
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 06:28 PM

Rick Dougherty is an absolutely wonderful tenor and has beautiful crystalline voice that, I think, works well with the "Kingston Trio" sound. He is an entertainer, to be sure, and a very well-trained voicalist (he was in opera before joining the Limeliters).

I don't know if I need to apologize here- I am not a purist. I just like wonderful musicians playing and making a living- especially in folk music.

I wish the former KT performers, the current and the future ones, the very best and am glad the songs and the people keep coming.

--SunnySister


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 03:34 AM

I gather that the current members of the Kingston Trio are George Grove (who has been a member of the Kingston Trio since 1976), and former Limeliters Bill Zorn and Rick Dougherty. Dougherty has a wonderful tenor voice; but the KT hasn't had that kind of tenor before and I think it will have a real effect on their song. Yes, they may end up sounding more like the Limeliters than the KT.
-Joe Offer-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Anonny Mouse
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 10:13 PM

Nice sentiment, John. And agreed for me too. I missed this original debate but a more recent thread on the most influencial folk album-and many felt it was the first red KT outing-got me back into looking at the Trio again. Shane is still retired I guess and another personnel change in that Haworth is gone and replaced by a replacement Limeliter-Rick something...so now it's the Kingstonliters I guess. LOL. I understand Martin's point on this. The group is recycling its repertoir from back when it was Shane/Reynolds/Guard/Stewart I guess. But allegedly there have been and WILL be some new recorded material and it ain't gonna be all retreads...so I wonder if the feeling will change if this "new" KT lays down 11 or 12 songs on a CD never done by the originals?

One thing's fer sure: if yer goin' to a concert by anyone named "the Kingston Trio"-there's gotta be "Tom Dooley" and "M.T.A." in there or else. However nobody's gonna do "Scotch and Soda" like Shane. Even Sinatra wouldn't touch that tune, and stole another--"verY Good Year" offa the last Guard trio album, and sold a million copies of it. Shane did IMO the ultimate version of that too. I wonder how Shane is coping with his enforced retirement??? I say more power to whoever's on stage with the KT name..and NO you couldn't have Peter, Saul and Harry!!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: GUEST,John Coleman
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 08:44 PM

I've read thru most of the preceeding comments...loved every minute. Would I have ever picked up a banjo in 1959 and still be playing it daily at age 62 had it not been for the KT? Probably not. Would I have ever met the hundreds of great people, musicians and otherwise had it not been for the great music of the KT? Probably not! I still listen to their albums...my 4 kids know most of the words to their music, and someday, when I'm dead, I want their music played at my funeral, and I want to go the same place that the now departed Dave Guard, Bob Gibson, and the eventually-to-depart Billy Faier, Bob Shane, Pete Seeger,just to name a few, and just sit there for an eternity and listen to that absolutely wonderful folk (or whatever you want to call it) music. God bless Bob Shane and may he have some more years to sing, play, and entertain us.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: DonMeixner
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 04:12 PM

Jimmy,

I am sure Art's only serious criteria is whether or not the person still breathes.

:-)

Don


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: jimmyt
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 03:14 PM

I am curious as to what criteria you feel makes people belong here or not, Art?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 02:41 PM

I gargoyle with Listerine every day, Art.

Jerry


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Art Thieme
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 01:03 PM

Not to mention awakening Gargoyle from his task guarding the hoard of like Smaug in his cave waiting for a sniff of orc or hobbit or whatever. Strange, he avoids Gollum like it was a Tribble and he was a Clingon (to mix a metaphor). Maybe Gargoyle IS Gollum. ;-)

Art


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Art Thieme
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 12:56 PM

I really enjoy speaking out on this. It seems to polarize and separate those who belong here --- and those who don't. ;-)

I do wish we could do that in Iraq. ;-(

Art Thieme ;-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Rasta
Date: 27 Apr 04 - 04:12 AM

its folk music all the way ,in a big way ,were just one too many morings and a thousand miles-----rastaaa


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 10:51 PM

Cripes....I have several LimeLighter albumes/cuts....if he dies....will they be worth more....

If they will be worth more....should I buy more on e-bay....and get a hedge on the market value? Will someone please post the immediate hour of his passing to the MC.org?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

This should not be viewed as a solicitation, nor an advice to buy....it is for informational purposes only.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 10:45 PM

Art, they never said it was!!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Art Thieme
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 10:16 PM

Yeah, but it's not folk music !!!!!

;-)

Art


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Deckman
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 06:52 PM

TOO FUNNY! (thanks, I needed that) Bob


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 06:29 PM

This has really been an interesting discussion.   I have to say that, and here I agree with Ron, PPM was a bad analogy. You really cannot have a group with their given names replaced by different names and still be called by the former. You can, however, keep a group name i.e Kingston Trio, Weavers, etc; and have replacements. Though not a great fan of the Kingston Trio I must say that the style and sound has stayed consistent and that, after all, is what the audience came to expect. Since the name, as said, is not one with first names I see no problem.

For many years people went to hear many famous big bands that merely changed the name from, say, Glenn Miller and his Orchestra to The Glenn Miller Orchestra. Nothing misleading there.   They maintained the style and sound of the original and gave the name of the new leader.

As to The Weavers.   Their work stayed pretty much the same with the replacements for Pete Seeger.   For many years I, too, thought that he could not be replaced. Years later when reading the book by Robert Koppelman (and interviewing him) and in recalling all those wonderful concerts I saw I came to realize that it was Lee Hays that probably could not be replaced. Without playing an instrument he was, to me, the persona of the group.

The group Work O The Weavers truly does them justice in the sense that they present a "docudrama" of the group with the sound being an almost perfect replica of the group. Yes, David Bernz of the group was very close to Hays while he (Bernz) was in his youth and brings much insight and humor into the production.

Now to say goodbye in a way that will make you people who think this is all too polite happy--=-=#$@#%^^&--you to

Bill Hahn


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 05:50 PM

I'll just continue to play an old record every now and then.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 04:57 PM

I guess I only disagree with you on the part where you say they are "duping" the public.   The fact is that when they play those towns, the people who come out are looking for exactly what they find. While I don't consider myself part of the audience that you describe, I do think that audience needs to be served. That audience will get their moneys worth and that is the way it should be. For a brief moment the music brings them back to a different time and place. That is a function of music that should not be forgotten. A good song and a good performance is an artform as well. It may not be our cup of tea, but someone else likes it. Far be it from you and I to make the decision for them.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Once Famous
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 04:39 PM

You nailed it Ron, when you said "causal fan." Casual fans probably wouldn't know one name from another anyway. They take their gray heads out, drop $40 on the Kingston trio or the Four Freshman, buy a CD from 1-5 recorded years ago of all the old hits by maybe 1 or 2 of the performers still with the group then that they just saw on stage. These CDs usually don't have any picture on the cover so you can't really tell anyway. Then they go home and watch a PBS special from 2-4 years ago, again a few different faces, and they still don't know or don't care. Yes, Grove & Haworth could easily form a new act and create a whole new sound and playlist, but business wise they are not stupid.

There are plenty of acts like this duping the public, playing those Tastes of Your Town and county fairs every summer. Usually they have 1 guy from the original who owns the name. I found it very hard to accept the Trio when only Shane was left. Still there was some true lineage to the original. Now with him 70, on oxygen, and in overall poor health unfortunately, this is just a clone band. Too bad. Let go. Nothing goes on forever.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 04:34 PM

Screw you Bob!! We will be as nice as we want!!!!


:)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Deckman
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 04:30 PM

Alright you guys!!!! Enough of this compatibilty!!! You are all being far too NICE to each other. KNOCK IT OFF!!!! Bob


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 04:09 PM

First - Martin, I'm not sure I agree with you when you say "They haven't been a group for years. They are a product."   There is a place, perhaps a "need", for groups that are place holders for a point in time. That said, I do think a group that is a continuing touring band needs to incorporate new material, and having seen the Kingston Trio last fall I do think they work toward that.   Sure, 90% of the show is re-treads of old material, but that is what the audience expects.

Don - I do agree with your points, and I also agree with most of Martin's.   My point is that the Kingston Trio has been an active group and yes, they are maintaining the name for recognition purposes. Grove & Haworth could easily form a new act, and they could also create a whole new sound and playlist.

As you say, "caveat emptor". The person who is most likely to buy a ticket for the Kingston Trio would be sorely disapointed if they did not hear all the hits they are expecting and were subjected to an evening of new songs, no matter how good they may be.   

I feel that Martin is right (to an extent)when he said that "they have recorded virtually nothing with any impact" in the past few decades. The fact that they are able to maintain an audience after 47 years speaks for something. They are entertainers first and foremost, and to that end they are doing a credible job. To a casual fan, the name "Kingston Trio" means something, even if they cannot name the original three members of the group.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: GLoux
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 04:07 PM

I only have one question. Why did McGrath of Harlow post the lyrics to the Incredible String Band's Hedgehog Song in this thread? Did the Kingston Trio do it? Do you want them to do it?

Let's hope Bob gets well and comes back in fine form.

-Greg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 03:56 PM

Ron, I think where I would draw the line is when none of the original members are still part of the group. It seems to me that the only reason for maintaining the name is name-recognition, and there we are at "business is business" again.

If you cut your teeth on early Kingston Trio recordings, and the Kingston Trio issues a new record or comes through town on tour, then caveat emptor. They are not the Kingston Trio that you remember. Now, they may be great. But if they are that great, then why don't they try to make a name for themselves?

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Once Famous
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 03:49 PM

Ron

The difference is that even though George Grove and Bob Haworth have been there a long time, they have recorded virtually nothing with any impact and just do basically the same show witht eh same songs and jokes that were done in the Guard/stewart years.

Without Seeger, the Weavers continued to create. The Trio, much as I loved them, decided to stand still. Grove and Haworth have been really no more than hired clones. Now so is Bill Zorn.

They haven't been a group for years. They are a product.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Rasta
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 03:36 PM

---im amazed at the response of bob shane and the trio . im not much for all the argument bout whos who in the group and so on but i respect you all for it. I really really really love the kingston trio way back when and in the now. theyve been alot of fun and know how to deliver a song with feeling and mean it. IM also into dylan ,lightfoot ,greenbriar boys ,bluegrass and the late mimi farinia (take heart) theyve all been a part of the big picture---i dont know much bout bill zorn but im sure they wouldnt let him in just by chance. Gerge Groves is probabbly the best banjo picker the group has ever had and sings with as much gusto and any member as well. (by the way George is in the process of making and vido on pickin the 5-string ) Bobby Harworth is a real talent playing banjo guitar or tenor and a great add to the trio. Not to forget the sidemen whose names escape me for the moment ,forgive me guys. --I certainly hope Bob Shane can work again id miss is presense (wild man)
but for the mean time give these guys a hoot ,they do a great job puttin a great show I hope ive made sense of all this no offense to anyone-----and Bob get better were all rootin for ya-----rastaaaa (pat Keating )


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 03:12 PM

"I have no quibble with their continuing to call themselves The Weavers. However, when the entire personnel of a small group changes, I just don't see how you can say it's the same group. That was my point with the Peter Paul and Mary example. Extreme, as I said, but I think the point holds."

I don't mean to quibble, but I want to make sure you and anyone reading this understood the point I was trying to make. I don't think the PPM example you gave holds because the group never changed members in their history. We can't imagine it.   However, as you pointed out, the Weavers did and you had no problem with them calling themselves the Weavers. I'm not sure if there is a magic line between 3 or 4 members that allows the name to continue. I think more to the point is that history allowed the Weavers to exist with various personal changes. We can't fathom a PPM without the three original members because it never happened.

Actually, I take that back. Last year Bethanny Yarrow filled in for Mary Travers, but I do think they called themselves Peter, Paul & Bethanny for the gig.

It really is a personal decision for the members of the groups to make, and audience support to allow. It appears that the Kingston Trio will continue to draw from their fan base regardless of the participation of the surviving original members.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Sarah the flute
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 02:56 PM

Is Bill Zorn the one who is the brother of Pete Zorn and they were in aband called the Arizona Smoke Review. If so I had the priviledge of meeting him when they were on tour in the 1980s...and he let me have a go on the bass flute he was playing! He is very nice and a fine musician if its the same person

Sarah


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 02:50 PM

A goof. Eric Darling, Frank Hamilton, and aware that there was a third, but unable to immediately come up with Bernie Krause, somehow I managed to replace him with John Stewart.

I'm not saying that the Weavers, as a musical group, were not as good after Seeger left. I heard them when they first got started, and I have an umpteen CD boxed set of reissued Weavers records, so I've heard them in all of their incarnations. What I am saying is that Seeger's voice and style were so distinctive, even in that powerful group, that the sound just wasn't the same. Good? Not as good? Matter of taste, I guess. I have no quibble with their continuing to call themselves The Weavers. However, when the entire personnel of a small group changes, I just don't see how you can say it's the same group. That was my point with the Peter Paul and Mary example. Extreme, as I said, but I think the point holds.

I know how PP & M came into existence, and I also know that earlier, as a member of Grossman's manufactured trio starting with Gibson and Camp, Judy Henske was considered at one point. Now there would have been one helluva sound!

At this rate, as long as they're still a draw, a nominal "Kingston Trio" could still be in existence a few thousand years from now, touring colonies in this arm of the galaxy. Business is business. . . .

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Steve-o
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 02:32 PM

This is a bunch of real good ideas and opinions. I too have a special place in my heart for the Trio- they did get me started. But we all do have our favorites; they're all individuals with distinctive voices and personalities. I stayed with them well through the 70s, although my favorite in terms of singing and attitude was always Dave Guard. What a wonderful sort of "dry, but intellectual" wit he was. I hope Bob recovers totally and is happy with whatever he chooses to do- Lord knows, he's "paid his dues" in the grueling world of constantly touring entertainers. And the others that continue to perform as the K.Trio- fine and double fine. We are in great need of anything that represents actual music, preferrably with folky roots, to counteract today's musical wasteland.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: GLoux
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 01:34 PM

The Kingston Trio has lasted 47 years and they didn't do that by making bad decisions. I think if they decide to continue on after Bob Shane's forced retirement, they have the foresight to understand what their audience wants, and that their credibility is in their hands. If they're wrong, then clearly no one will come to see them any more, because they've completely ruined their credibility. If they're right, they will continue. It is their call, IMHO.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 01:19 PM

"As good as Eric Darling and John Stewart and Frank Hamilton were, no one could replace Seeger, and it just wasn't The Weavers anymore."

You will get some arguments there. The Weavers made some wonderful recordings with Darling and Hamilton. Darling's musical expertise especially added a new dimension to their music. Don't overlook the contribution they made!

I assume you meant John Stewart in the Kingston Trio, not the Weavers. Even though they didn't have the huge hit singles, the Stewart years are generally recognized for the artistic growth that the Trio had. Some would even say their best years were with Stewart!

"contemplate Peter Paul and Mary retiring individually, but finding replacements. Eventually we have a trio composed of Fred, Lloyd, and Virginia. Is that still "Peter Paul and Mary?"

That is too hypothetical to consider. Considering that the trio has been together for 40 plus years, it isn't the same as a group that has evolved through changes.

PPM was a manufactured image - but one that works dramatically well. Plus, Noel "adopted" the name of Paul!! I wonder what would have happened with the original trio that Albert Grossman wanted - Bob Gibson, Hamilton Camp and reportedly Marilyn Child.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 01:02 PM

Once again, considering our history of splintering lances here on various Mudcat threads, I find myself in the peculiar position of being in agreement with Martin Gibson.

Recently I've seen television commercials for one of the Native American casinos near Seattle advertising that, along with the usual gambling, they feature night club entertainment consisting of "tributes" to various well-known performers such as Garth Brooks, Barbra Striesand, Frank Sinatra, etc, and, of course, the usual Elvis impersonator. Somehow I feel pretty much the same way about a Kingston Trio that does not include Guard or Shane or Reynolds as I do about these "tribute" entertainers. They don't exactly stir me off the couch.

Granted, there is what might be called a "through line," in that the group known as "The Kingston Trio" changed its members one at a time; but since it now consists of none of the original members, it's simply not the same group. I don't think the analogy of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir applies. The Mormon Tabernacle Choir, or the Boston Symphony, or any other large group are institutions, in which individual personalities do not have the same impact. In groups like The Kingston Trio or The Weavers, the individuals that made up the group had a noticeable impact on the sound and personality of the group. As good as Eric Darling and John Stewart and Frank Hamilton were, no one could replace Seeger, and it just wasn't The Weavers anymore.

Here's an extreme case to try on as a thought experiment:   contemplate Peter Paul and Mary retiring individually, but finding replacements. Eventually we have a trio composed of Fred, Lloyd, and Virginia. Is that still "Peter Paul and Mary?"

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 10:08 AM

Having met Bill Zorn and seen him sing and play, he is one great musician,and as alanabit says, you couldn't meet a nicer man.
From what I've heard of the Kingston Trio, Bill would outshine them all.
eric


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 09:28 AM

Work O'The Weavers are a good group, they will be performing at the Paramus Picture Show in Paramus, NJ this coming Saturday May 1. They do a fascinating historical presentation and they do a good job of honoring the spirit of the Weavers and carrying on the tradition - and they tell the story to a new generation. Who could ask for more?

The difference is, they do not claim to be the Weavers, nor does Weavermania.   The Kingston Trio claims to be the same group, and as I said previously, they are since two of the members have a long history with the group, and Shane's replacement also has history.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Lady Hillary
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 09:04 AM

EBarnacle here.

There is a new group performing called "The Work of the Weavers." Dave Bernz, the sparkplug of the group, essentially grew up in the Seeger household and was brought into the Sloop Singers by Pete. As mentioned earlier, his performance style is very similar to Pete's.

He is not a Pete clone but he was brought up in the tradition, respects it and is carrying it on. The key here is THE TRADITION, not trying to be a replica of the original group. They could all qualify as "Red diaper" types and are interested in the ongoing labor struggle. At least one of them is self employed and I don't believe that any of them will get rich from this effort. In essence, they are doing what they believe is right, doing it well and enjoying themselves. Who could ask for more.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 07:14 PM

We do acccept classical orchestras and choirs without a qualm.

If they aren't doing it "right" then we stop going. Surely the same applies to the KT to at least a certain extent?

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 07:05 PM

Art, I enjoyed all of those songs, also and glad to hear you bring them up! They were all great songs and I am glad the Trio had that kind of impact on you. To tell you the truth, Shane, Reynolds, and Guard/Stewart had more impact on many more people that really care to admit it. They are way to unrecognized for their contribution.

If Nick Reynolds played a six string instead of playing that Martin 0-18T tenor at that frantic pace, the sound wouldn't have been the same! To me, the group is just not the group without him. Others felt the same about Dave Guard. Or Bob Shane? Can you say that about the Mormon Tabernacle choir?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Art Thieme
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 06:46 PM

The group called WEAVERMANIA is one of my favorites around Chicago these days. Pete joined them in a concert recently at the Chicago Historical Society and it was just FUN!!

Art


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Art Thieme
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 06:39 PM

Martin Gibson, please don't have a heart attack, but I must say that "Raspberries Strawberries", "Scotch And Soda", "Fast Freight", "Three Jolly Coachmen", "South Coast", Fred Geis's song "Goin' Home", "Darlin' Corey", "The New Frontier" --- even "Banua" and "Merry Minuet" were all good songs well done. At risk of destoying my image here, I listened to and enjoyed these and many more.

I wish Bob Shane a quick recovery.

A question: No big deal, but did Nick ever learn to play a 6-string guitar? ;-)

Art Thieme


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 06:24 PM

Except many true Kingston Trio fans, myself included, did feel that the voices and personalities during the group's recording heyday did stop going to concerts and buying records. The Mormon Tabernacle Choir I am sure never had any records featuring distinctive solo performer voices and personalities. They are a group without a name or a face. To many, the Trio were quite the opposite.

In the case of the Kingston Trio, where as once they were artists and entertainers, the replacements simply became entertainers emulating the art of their predecessors. This even more holds true when no original members exist.

And Ron, the body of work with George Grove has always been the same body of work arranged, in some cases written, and recorded by the groups with either Guard/Stewart in them from the 20 or so albums 1957-1967.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: GUEST,Mary Katherine
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 05:29 PM

A lot of this is personal perception vs "name" recognition. Most people who buy tickets to see the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, or the Boys' Choir of Harlem, probably have no idea of any one singer's name, but you have a "percepetion" of what kind of musical style you'll hear onstage. On the other hand you have a group called "Peter, Paul & Mary" -this is name recognition, because each individual in the group is specifically named, and any substitution would make them no longer the group one paid to hear.
When Pete Seeger left the Weavers they carried on with various folks in Pete's place (Erik Darling, Frank Hamilton, etc.) and were still the Weavers. And everybody knew what they would hear at their concerts.
At the end of the day, there's no deception being practised here; Bob Shane has come right out and said that he won't be able to perform onstage for awehile, and those who are still Kingston Trio fans, who loyally continue to buy their records and attend their concerts, are probably going to show up regardless of who's in the group; folks who are *not* K3 fans probably won't care either way.

Mary Katherine


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: freightdawg
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 04:56 PM

Aaack, gag, spit, sputter!!!

Memo to self---read the darn post before you hit submit!!!!


To all the CCR fans out there - a huge and tremendous apology.

That is Creedence Clearwater Revival.

Way too much shopping for a good, inexpensive laptop computer (hence the "clearance" on the brain.)

For an encore, I will tell the story of how Louis Armstrong was the first man to step on the moon.

Once again, sorry to all the CCR fans out there. I'm really not smoking dope, really.

A very red in the muzzle,

Freightdawg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 12:44 PM

"Would you accept four different guys calling themselves the Beetles, also?"

There is a big difference (aside from the spelling).

The Beatles broke up in 1970. End of story. The Kingston Trio kept going (aside from the few years off). The story continues with new chapters and characters and links to the past.

If a group gradually replaces members and continues on, I see no reason why they shouldn't continue to use the name. Haworth and Grove have put their time in with the group, especially Grove. It is not like three new members have suddenly appeared on stage.

Please don't get me wrong, I do see your point. For me personally, I am not as bothered by it since I do see a body of work that has been built in more recent history that deserves to be kept up.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Lrr Add: Hedehog's Song
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 12:43 PM

"Oh, you know all the words, and you sung all the notes,
But you never quite learned the song"
- that was the Incredible String Band's to start with. Good song:

The Hedgehog's Song Lyrics

I'm not the kind to complain
That I never had a girl to love.
Many a fine girl I tried hard to know,
But I think I never tried enough.

Sitting one day by myself,
And I'm thinking, "What could be wrong?"
When this funny little Hedgehog comes running up to me,
And it starts up to sing me this song.

Oh, you know all the words, and you sung all the notes,
But you never quite learned the song, she sang.
I can tell by the sadness in your eyes,
That you never quite learned the song.

Every day when the sun go down,
And the evening is so very still,
Many a fine girl I've held in my arms,
And I hope there's many more that I will,
But just when everything is going fine,
And absolutely nothing is wrong,
This funny little Hedgehog's always around
And every time he wants to sing me this song.

Oh, you know all the words, and you sung all the notes,
But you never quite learned the song, she sang.
I can tell by the sadness in your eyes,
That you never quite learned the song.

One day when the moon was full I thought I might settle down,
Found myself a pretty little girl,
And I stopped all my running around;
But just when the preacher come along,
And he's just gonna pop on the ring,
This funny little Hedgehog comes
running down the aisle,
And I don't have to tell you what he did sing.

Oh, you know all the words, and you sung all the notes,
But you never quite learned the song, she sang.
I can tell by the sadness in your eyes,
That you never quite learned the song.

I'm not the kind to complain
That I never had a girl to love;

Many fine girls I've tried hard to know,
But I think I never tried enough.
But now I'll be looking all my days,
And it isn't just me I got to please,
There's this funny little Hedgehog
Who's always around,
And the only words he ever sings to me are these.
Oh, you know all the words and you sung all the notes,
But you never quite learned the song, she sang.
I can tell by the sadness in your eyes,
That you never quite learned the song.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Bob Shane is done after 47 years
From: freightdawg
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 12:11 PM

There is something distressing about seeing entertainers age and lose their sharpness, voice, whatever. It kind of reminds all of us that, if we are lucky to live as long, the same fate awaits all of us.

Like so many who have posted above, I came to appreciate what is now called "folk" music through my father's recordings of The Kingston Trio and Peter, Paul and Mary. We also had several Burl Ives recordings, although its funny because I never considered him in the same genre - it just goes to show how broad the river of "folk" really is. I too have appreciated the overall kind comments. Reading folks bash the Trio or PP&M is kind of like having someone spit on your first grade teacher's grave. To those of us who were kids during the "revival", that is our "formative" music. That is not to disrespect those pioneers who made it possible for the Trio, but it is a matter of emphasis. That which influences us first, usually influences us the greatest.

I like the idea of a slight name change, keeping the identity of the primary group, but communicating that the legend can continue. Someone mentioned the New Christy Minstrels, and I am reminded of groups like Clearance Clearwater Revisited, vis. Revival. It really doesn't bother me that much with a group like the Kingston Trio, or even the Statler Bros. (who changed one group member before their retirement). But continuing a living heritage is what folk music is all about, right?

Freightdawg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 3 March 12:59 PM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.