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BS: assaults on teachers
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Subject: BS: assaults on teachers From: dianavan Date: 30 Apr 04 - 02:32 AM Today was the lowest point in my career. I was kicked by an eight year old student. He's autistic. He was disappointed and upset this morning and as I was attempting to communicate with him (to find out what was bothering him) he kicked me in the knee and I went down. Last year I had emergency surgery on that same knee. I actually think I'm O.K. physically but it has certainly scrambled my brains. I am the first person to be able to communicate with him at all. I have taught him to read and he is at grade level in math. Before now, all anyone could do was try to deal with the behaviour. I'm quite fond of this child but I do have limits. I called his parents and requested that they pick him up and keep him home for the day. Their 18 year old daughter screamed at me and told me that he had a right to be in school! I then asked the principal to contact the parents and remove the child from my classroom for the day. They showed up at noon. I tried to teach the rest of the class but I couldn't stay focussed so I let them have extra P.E. time, read a story and we did Art for the rest of the day. I'm feeling very unsure of entering the classroom tommorrow. This incident has left me feeling drained and exhausted. I think I may need to seek counselling. My questions are many: Is this fair to the other students? Should the student be suspended? Should the student be expelled? Should the student be transferred to a special class? Should I call the Union? Should I return to work? Should I sue? What do I do until this situation is resolved? |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: alanabit Date: 30 Apr 04 - 02:58 AM It sounds as if the family expects a bit more because you have raised their expectations. That is quite a success for you. Autism is essentially a communication difficulty as far as I know. (I used to work in a hospital for the mentally handicapped). As you have been successful with the child up to now, you will probably want to reinclude the child in your class. You will probably only feel able to do that if you establish better lines of communication with the family. That will rule out suing, calling the union or trying to shift the student. Obviously, your line of communication to the family will not be improved by the eighteen year old's tantrum. You will probably make it clear to the family that you want an apology and that they have to see that the needs of all children and the teacher have to be taken into account. It is the child who lost control in the situation - not you. I am sure you do a very good job. |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: nutty Date: 30 Apr 04 - 03:30 AM The child is an eight year old with special needs ...... you say you have a special relationship with him ....so how does he behave with other people? Is this a "one off" or is violence a normal reaction for him? How does he behave at home?? If violence is part of his behaviour, it is important that a behaviour management scheme be implemented immediately. His parents must understand that a growing child whose violence is not curbed or contained is a danger not just too staff but to other children. The reaction of his sister probably stems from over-protectiveness. Families can often become traumatised by the process of getting help for special needs children. With regard to your injury ...you should definitely record the incident in the school's accident register in case this event added to the previous injury makes it difficult for you to work. If in pain, make a doctor's appointment and get the knee checked out and if necessary go on the sick until it is totally better. You could also contact the Union for guidance should something like this happen again or in case the parents refuse to cooperate. Finally ..... don't take it personally - you were not responsible for the upset the child was feeling. He was probably kicking out in frustration at life in general not at you in particular. Accept that you are not a miracle worker and that there will be times when some situations are beyond you - don't let one incident damage your confidence in such a difficult yet rewarding job. PM me if you would like to talk further or more privately. I am a retired Special Needs teacher who did the job for 30 years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: GUEST,guest Date: 30 Apr 04 - 04:32 AM it is the 18 year old that needs counselling. |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: open mike Date: 30 Apr 04 - 06:05 AM is this a special needs classroom or is he maintreamed in? does he have an aide available to deal with extra requirements of time that take away from other students? |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: katlaughing Date: 30 Apr 04 - 06:44 AM {{{{{{{{{{{{dianavan}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: 42 Date: 30 Apr 04 - 07:34 AM Do you have any adult support (ie: educational assistant) who works alongside this student in your class? It can be an invaluable aid and keep the student integrated. would the child understand or even notice if he was suspended or expelled? is your administration supportive in a hands-on way? Does your school have a problem solving (behaviour) room to help deal with and prevent re-occurrences ? been where you are... j |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: Chief Chaos Date: 30 Apr 04 - 02:44 PM Sounds like critical incident stress. Something unusual happened and your body switched on the fight or flight system because it was so unexpected (and painful). The unfortunate thing is that the system doesn't have an immediate off switch. The episode is over and there you are still juiced up on adrenalin with nowhere to go and nothing to fight. Add one little shit of a teenager and to you the sky is falling (I'm sympathizing not criticizing). You are actually doing what's best to do. Talk with others. It's definitely not your fault it happened, although if he is autistic I can't say that he is at fault either. An Autistics mind does not work the way ours does. Unless the injury aggrivates the old injury I don't see suing anyone. The child does need an assesment to see if he/she should be placed in a special needs class. This is for your protection and the protection of the other students. The parents may bitch but safety is paramount (especially if he acts out against a larger child who might injur him fighting back.) Forget the teenager. taking some time for yourself might be good. It might also take a few weeks for the body to settle back to normal. Realizing that it is a critical stress incident will help you deal with it. I had two episodes a week or so ago that left me in the same condition. First one of our friends a the bowling alley who is handicapped had a seizure. I helped him the best I could (not a hero, just in the right place top do the right thing). The next evening we had a suicide threat which I had to deal with. Instead of feeling fantastic about my actions and great about both of the postitive outcomes of both situations I felt worse than ever. You'll feel better in time just like I have. |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: CarolC Date: 30 Apr 04 - 03:29 PM I think I may need to seek counselling. --dianavan it is the 18 year old that needs counselling --GUEST,guest It's not necessary for you to have anything wrong with you to be able to benefit from counseling (although I suspect you knew this already, and that's why you're considering getting it). Counseling has helped me through a lot of very difficult stuff in my life. If you feel that getting some counseling might be helpful for you, maybe you should do it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: TS Date: 30 Apr 04 - 03:34 PM Had this topic as a conversation yesterday at work. Where were all the "special needs" kids when we were in school? I was either closed off and innocent as a child, or we didnt hear about them, or we didnt have them. Teachers have an incredible amount of patience. I work inthe medical industry and my patience diminish daily with people who want not only the world, but for free. Best of luck with your final decision Dianavan, maybe a quiet weekend reflecting on the kids you've seen succeed and appreciate you will help....Slainte! |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: CarolC Date: 30 Apr 04 - 03:54 PM ReelBrew, as someone who had special needs that weren't addressed when I was a child (because nobody knew about them then), I can tell you where they were when you were in school. They were (like me) the kids who were being made fun of for being different and maybe a little slow. They were the ones who all of the other kids thought were "dumb" and the teachers were pissed off with for not "trying harder". It took me the better part of a lifetime to figure out that those people were not only just plain wrong, they were also profoundly lacking in compassion. We get enough misery just having our disabilities. We don't need people like you judging us on top of it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: TS Date: 30 Apr 04 - 04:07 PM Carol, I had to re-read what I had said. I dont see where I am judging anyone. I couldnt agree more with you. I was simply stating that we (society) didnt have the education, or the balls to point out that some kids had needs different then all the other kids. Thats all I was saying. Didnt mean any disrespect.....Slainte! |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: CarolC Date: 30 Apr 04 - 04:31 PM Ok, thanks ReelBrew. I guess I misunderstood this part: I work inthe medical industry and my patience diminish daily with people who want not only the world, but for free. That, combined with what you were saying about not knowing where the special needs kids were when you were in school, led me to think you were saying that special needs kids don't have legitimate needs and that they (or their parents) are trying to get something extra for free (that they don't reallly need). Thanks for clarifying your point. |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: TS Date: 30 Apr 04 - 04:52 PM Carol, No..so sorry..what I meant was..I am a paramedic. I pick up people everyday who do not appreciate us saving their lives. They;ll go out tomorrow and OD all over again, for example...comparing that to the patience teachers have in general..everyday..dealing with students, parents, other teachers...sorry for the misunderstanding...Slainte! |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: Alaska Mike Date: 30 Apr 04 - 05:02 PM I taught high school in Arizona for a number of years after graduation from college. There were 4 teenaged gangs at the school that were constantly warring with each other and trying to intimidate teachers and administrators. Because of my large size and successful manner in dealing with disciplinary problems, I ended up teaching large classes filled with gang members, drug dealers, potential dropouts and borderline psychotics. Over the years I was threatened, intimidated, and challenged both mentally and physically. My house was defaced, my vehicle's tires were slashed and my family received obscene phone calls at all hours of the day and night. I eventually got burned out from this constant tension and quit my chosen profession to pursue other opportunities. I have never regretted leaving the teaching profession. The pay was very low, the responsibilities were enormous and (despite the lip service of polititians) today's teachers get very little respect from their communities. Good luck with your students dianavan. I hope you find a solution to this problem and others that I know will arise. But keep in mind, its a big world out there and the skills you develop as a successful teacher are in demand in the larger work place. If it gets to be too much, find another path. Best wishes, Mike |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: GUEST Date: 30 Apr 04 - 06:49 PM ((((dianavan)))) Sorry to hear this Happened to you. In answer to your questions: Is this fair to the other students? No. But then I find a lot of what is going on in Schools today to be unfair to normal kids. "no Child left behind" sounds great in theory but in practice it has some serious problems. Should the student be suspended? Yes, and I think if he stays in your class he needs a full time attendant to help with such problems Should the student be expelled? no Should the student be transferred to a special class? Possibly, if attacks like this continue and the parents refuse other ways of deakling with it Should I call the Union? YES!!!!! For your own protection Should I return to work? Do you feel comfortable and sfe. Should I sue? Not sure you can What do I do until this situation is resolved? Insist that there be another adult there to deal with him and his issues. As to where Special Needs kids where , when we were kids, well as a Special Needs person I can tell you we were either in your classes being treaetd like crap by our fellows and often the teachers or, in our own classes so the teachers and students in the other classes didn't have to deal with us. Now the pendulum has swung the other, too far I think. THere aer some students who will just never be able to learn at grade level ( or behave appropriately) and expecting them to does a disservice to everyone the teacher, other student and most of all the special needs kids themselves. JMHO |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: nikkih Date: 30 Apr 04 - 07:09 PM 'it is important that a behaviour management scheme be implemented immediately' look what kind of lunatic replies you have unleashed The child is 8 and autistic!! Enjoy the weekend. |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: Peace Date: 30 Apr 04 - 08:19 PM Yep. If the behaviour management plan is implemented right now and it's the first, then one might wonder why it wasn't in place before. Who is responsible for the child's programme/IPP/IEP? |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: mg Date: 30 Apr 04 - 08:32 PM Of course the boy needs a referral to a special classroom. When kids are violent, or so disruptive that the rest of the class can not learn, they need special classes. Sometimes special schools. I have worked in schools, and I know that me saying so does not mean that he will. There are some real numbskulls in education, no offense to anyone there, but in Seattle Schools I encountered so many I swore I would never set foot in a school again, except in some very limited ways. (A lot was changed when General Stanford became superintendent but it was too late for me). Mainstreaming is good in theory, and certainly should be used when possible, of course when a kid is blind, deaf, in a wheelchair etc....but violence is not a situation where it works. Maybe this is a one-time deal..I don't know. The laws in the states do not help either. And I am not pursuaded that they are great for many types of handicaps either...some just need special accomodation and specially trained staff. And integration should be sought and required to the limits of sensibility. But not when people are endangered. And if the teacher, whose major job as I see it is to protect the children from harm, is injured, how safe could the kids feel? Safety in schools, on buses, etc. should be our number one concern. Education can come next. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: GUEST Date: 01 May 04 - 12:39 AM The child is Autistic You NOT the parents are the professional.
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: Chief Chaos Date: 01 May 04 - 12:54 AM Yet another assault on the teacher by Guest. When did teachers become professional psychiatrists? Physical Therapy professionals? Security professionals? Why would anyone expect a teacher to do something other than educate the children? And yet you, the teachers, continue to try. whether out of sheer stubbornness or pure love, you continue to try. My hat is off to you, you have my sincere respect and admiration. All that I am today I owe to my teachers. What I am today is a direct result of applying what you taught me. Thank you! Alaska Mike - What happened to you is a crime! A principal and school board taking the easy way out instead of forcing the parents and the community to deal with their problems. And for so little pay! |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: LadyJean Date: 01 May 04 - 01:09 AM In the fifth grade I went from being five feet tall to five feet four. In the midst of that impressive growth spurt, I swung on my jacket, knocked a moth in a glass frame off the science room wall, and broke the glass. I appologized to the teacher, and offered to pay for it. She screamed at me for ten minutes for being clumsy. No payment was required, except my self worth, which went to feed that bitch's sorry ego. I hope to gracious somebody beat the tar out of her. Nobody hates a bad lawyer more than another lawyer. Attorneys know a bad colleague tarnishes the whole profession. Teachers, doctors, police officers, never figured this one out. So the good suffer with the bad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: Rasener Date: 01 May 04 - 02:10 AM Dianavan As a parent of an 8 year old Autistic daughter, I find it incredible that you are teaching this child without support. Is this child in mainstream? Is he statemented? Does he have support during the lessons? What you did to that child, even though he kicked you through probably sheer frustration becuase you possibly were unable to communicate effectively, was totally wrong. The government preaches inclusion and you as such have to learn to deal with it. I don't agree with families threatening the teacher. Discussion is the most important thing between tou, the family and the Special Needs Co-ordinator if you have one. If you haven't then you should have. I think in all reality, your head teacher has let you down, by not giving you the correct tools to work with. We have fantastic links with our school, the SENCO and the one to one support. If soemthing liked this happened, the one to one would just take her out of the class for a while. The school would get in touch with us and we would discuss it further. If my daughter is naughty, she gets told off, but we very quickly change tack and move on. She understands that she has been naughty, but dwelling on it only makes the matter worse. That child should come back into class with support from somebody who knows a lot about autism and you should get on with teaching. |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: nutty Date: 01 May 04 - 02:55 AM The issue here is where in the world does dianavan teach ...... my comments were made regarding the system in Britain and (certainly in my local authority), even if this were the first ever incident, the teacher and child would be unlikely to get any substantial support unless a behaviour management program was being implemented. Initially the responsibility for this lies with the head teacher supported by the school goveners. It is possible for an eight year old autistic child to be in a mainstream class without the benefits of being statemented. I believe the system in other countries is different. |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: ced2 Date: 01 May 04 - 05:22 AM Get in touch with the Union.. fast! I spent too many years dealing with teacher breakdowns etc etc as a health and safety advisor for the UK's largest teacher's union to not see the potential gravity of this situation. Tea and sympathy is not the way to protect yourself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 01 May 04 - 06:55 AM Nicely put Villan - the most level-headed and useful post in this thread so far. Heed Villan's words Dianavan, exclusion, litigation and navel-contemplation won't solve the problem. Sounds like you're in need of a proper structure being established by your school/education authority to enable this child to be taught successfully and safely (for both of you). Good luck. Johnny :0) (not a teacher, but an ex-youth worker who's had to deal with many teenagers' violent episodes) |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: freda underhill Date: 01 May 04 - 07:19 AM diana Everyone has rules for what "should" happen and there are always very unpredictable incidents. anyone can decide afterwards what the best situation is and what should have been done. you are obviously a very dedicated teacher and take your job seriously. You have empathised with the kid and he has grown and developed under your care. whatever happens, you have done a fantastic job up til now and should be commended for your dedication. No one has the right to criticise you - you did not lose it, you did not strike the kid, or abuse him. You also have rights. Maybe the union needs to speak with you to your principal, to ensure you have their back up. And then the principal if they are any good should facilitate a meeting between you and the parents, to explain what the schools obligations and limits are. Teachers like you are valuable and can make a huge difference. But you need to work in a safe environment. You sound like the sort of person that would make a difference, whatever job you were in. good luck with it all and don't let anyone tell you you havent done a good job. freda |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: GUEST Date: 01 May 04 - 07:41 AM I am an inner city secondary student, but have worked also in junior high as a special needs teacher. Here is my .02 (and worth no more than that!): 1) It sounds like your classroom is mainstream for this student. There should be an IEP for this student, and a teaching assistant or education assistant who is with the child at all times in the classroom, if you are in public education, or the equivalent of those things if you work in a British or Australian system. If you work in what in the US is known as a private school, the requirements may not be as stringent. 2) I agree with the advice to contact your union. I hope yours is good. Realize though, that we often have to advocate for ourselves, both with the administration and with the union. 3) I think the child should have been removed from your classroom for the day. In my school, assaults by students, spec ed or not, are always taken seriously, and the child is always removed for the day. They certainly aren't allowed back into the classroom! If the student has to wait for the family to arrive, the administration should deal with where the child should wait until they do. 4) The child should be suspended, probably at least for one full day (not counting the day of incident), but I'll feel more comfortable with a 2 day if there has never been a violent incident in the past, or very recent past. 5) Definitely document what happened in whatever way your school and district requires you to do it. Sometimes that means filing a police report. It is shocking to find out that some districts require that even for 8 year olds, much less autistic kids, but there you have it. 6) Definitely see a doctor and have your knee checked out. 7) My district actually has counseling services for educators as a benefit, and a referral system to get you to counselors who deal with job related stress cases all the time. Do some checking, but if you feel you need counseling, go for it. But if you find you don't like the first counselor, find another that you do like, feel safe and comfortable with. 8) My sister is an AP in the same district as me. She was injured trying to break up a fight between two girls. It took her the better part of 6-9 months to completely "recover". Remember, you need to NOT intellectualize your feelings too much. An assault on you is an assault, regardless of the age and special needs status of the person who assaulted you. Your job isn't to think in those terms. You need to think about recovering your sense of equilibrium, in order to get beyond your victimization. Autistic kids can be some of the most challenging to work with, but they can also be very rewarding to help and just to know, as someone above said. It sounds like you were on the challenged end of the deal that day! My best advice is, try and keep your sense of humor about the incident, even if it's grim, and not PC. We educators do need vent about our little angels when this kind of thing happens (away from our work setting, of course), and dark, edgy humor helps us do it in the same way it does for people who work on the front lines in medicine. It can be a great stress reliever. My guess is this hit you emotionally so hard, because you were kicked in a physical spot, your knee, where you already feel vulnerable due to your recent surgery. But remember, if you had a full recovery from the surgery, and had been feeling pretty good with it, you are very likely going to be physically good as new in a few days. As others said, if you feel the need, use sick time. And when you go back in to the classroom with this kid, wear your knee pads! ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: GUEST Date: 01 May 04 - 07:45 AM "I am an inner city secondary student..." Ah, actually, that should read teacher, but it was a long week for me too! No attacks on me personally, but our school arsonist who has been setting fires in school since last fall, was back in operation yesterday. The little darling(s) do their work right outside my door in the stairwell. |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: dianavan Date: 01 May 04 - 01:49 PM Well its a new day and I'm feeling much more stable. I went to the doctor and the knee is fine. A sore muscle but otherwise the knee is O.K. The doctor, however, insists that I take the week off. This is how he explained it to me. When a situation like this occurs, the body is flooded with adrenalin, hormones, endorphins and a host of other chemicals. He says it takes about a week before the body returns to normal. He also said that if I return to the same environment, anything in that environment could trigger me and I might react in a way that could jeopardize my career. Sooo - I'm off for a week. The principal has been very kind and understanding (this may be because he witnessed the whole thing). I realized by your posts that I left out alot of information. The boy does have an assistant working with him 1:1. As far as my qualifications? I have both the training and experience in special ed., although I am presently employed as a classroom teacher. He has an IEP and does not need behaviour modification (this was an isolated incident). The incident occurred partly because his assistant was absent that day and there was a substitute. Autistic kids do not like changes! He has had substitutes before and I have always been able to explain the change to him and while he doesn't like it, he has never reacted violently. I would also like to say that I went into class yesterday to reassure my students that I was O.K. and to read them a story. The little boy in question sat on a chair next to me and stroked my forearm the entire time. I interpret this as an apology and that he has the capacity to feel remorse. I am still angry. I am angry with his family. I am angry that they have never acknowledged that his behaviour has improved dramatically, that I have successfully integrated their son in class, that I taught him to read, that he is at grade level in math. I am angry that they permit him to misbehave at home and give him anything he wants to keep the peace. I am angry that they make and break appointments regularly. Mostly I am angry that they do not communicate with me and that they dump him in my class and treat me like a babysitter. I need their support and the little boy needs consistent behavioural expectations. I am fortunate that I have the training (most teachers don't), that I have great support in class and from the administration. I just wish his parents would feed him properly, get him to bed on time and provide consistent expectations at home. I'm sure the reason the older sister was so "snarky" was because she would have to care for him at home (the parents work). Oddly enough, I had been talking to the principal the day before about the possibility of teaching the next grade next year so that I could keep this boy in my class. I have, of course, withdrawn the request. Not because of the boy but because his parents have insulted me and treated me with no respect. My remaining doubts are regarding the other students. How can we protect them? If he had kicked another child, the kick would have landed mid-section. Where has he learned this behaviour? So what now? R&R! Thanks for your thoughts. I will survive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: Donuel Date: 01 May 04 - 07:35 PM The teenage girl sounds like a parrot. The mother had either heard counselors say that or maybe she had faced a suspension of the child in the past and picked up the phraseology then. There sure are lots of teachers here. One guest said dark humor away from the workplace is good. The key word is "away" Here a supervisor did a skit at a teacher convention that made a joke of teaching abused teachers to kick butt. Someone video taped him and now the supervisor's butt is being kicked by parents and others. In my day I recall being assualted over time by 3 different teachers and only heard of one teacher being assaulted. I suppose it may have changed quite a bit today. As for how the child learned such behavior, it takes but one episoode of Spiderman to learn a myriad of kicks. Autism is such a blanket term it is considered to simply be a large spectrum of various psycho neuro disorders. Some behavior mod systems I have seen really differ little from what an animal trainer might employ. Diana, there are plenty of sports protective gear for things like knees. You might want to wear one if only as a badge of courage :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: assaults on teachers From: GUEST Date: 02 May 04 - 12:23 PM Thanks dianavan for clarifying the circumstances for us. I can easily understand how things escalated with this student because of having a sub education assistant for the day. Even in our high school, any time there is a change in the routine, some kids will act out, get testy, etc. It is a well known phenomenon, as humans are all creatures of habit. That said, I do still believe you should document the circumstances with your union this week though, in case any question came up surrounding the incident in the future. You need to document, in writing, your version of events, and make sure you have given them to someone in your union who could attest that your version of events wasn't done long after the incident when memories become faulty. It never looks good when someone writes down their account after being challenged. That is why I always keep written records of serious discipline issues with problem students that I send up the chain to administration. Since you have been given the OK physically by your doctor, I'm guessing a week off at this time of year will do you a world of good to get back on your feet. Then summer isn't too far off, and if you won't be teaching that student's grade next year, you will be done with this student. Remember, you have much to proud of with this child, but you have now likely reached the point where it is time to let them and you move on to make way for next year's students. Good luck with the rest of your year, and remember it's all downhill from here. Postscript about the dark humor remark made by someone above. I did state that this sort of humor doesn't belong in the workplace, but if I didn't make that clear enough, I'd like to clarify that now. I would never engage in this sort of humor in my workplace, and I would never engage in it with my colleagues even outside of work. That sort of humor is best shared with people who either aren't educators, or educators you work with who don't understand and appreciate an ironic sense of humor. And in the US, that means most people. You need to find someone who understands you, and the pressures and frustrations of your job stresses. It really isn't hard, if you have a good support network of family and friends. |
