Irish language speakers

Subject: Irish language speakers
From: Celtaddict
Date: 02 May 04 - 09:15 PM

I have run across many 'Catters with varying levels of proficiency in the Irish language. Do we have any idea how many native/fluent speakers there are here?
(A majority of the people I know with the interest know enough to have an idea of the song, and enough to "be polite" in Irish, but it is a very difficult language to learn with fluency, in part no doubt because there is little opportunity for ongoing practice without moving to the Gaeltacht.)

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Fergie
Date: 03 May 04 - 04:00 AM

It would help to know where you are based.
Fergus

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,Statesthebleedingobvious
Date: 03 May 04 - 04:14 AM

Since they all speak English, I just speak to them in English. What's the point in leanring to speak a dead language? Its worth remembering that Yeats, Joyce, Doyle, etc. all wrote in English.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: MartinRyan
Date: 03 May 04 - 05:15 AM

..an English which would have been quite different but for the (bleeding obvious) influence of Irish, BTW.

Regards

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: MartinRyan
Date: 03 May 04 - 05:26 AM

But to answer the question... I haven't seen evidence of native speakers of Irish here - but plenty of people with a command of written Irish that suggests their spoken version would be fluent.

Regards

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Fear Faire
Date: 03 May 04 - 11:40 AM

Tá corr dhuine fánach ann - na gliomaigh.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From:
Date: 03 May 04 - 04:34 PM

Guest:Bleeding Obvious, it isn't a dead language, and neither is Scottish Gaelic. Both are living languages, though with few enough speakers around the world. There are still millions of speakers of either when you consider it world-wide.

You may be from some place like the USA where many people seem to speak only the one "true" language, English (although some of you do it in funny ways). I'm a Canadian and we TRY to recognize there are other languages in the world, and as a country we are officially bi-lingual with French AND English as official languages.

The Europeans are amazing for the most part in that it often seems when I encounter someone from the European continent, that they speak a minimum of 3 languages and often more.

Give it up and learn other languages. It'll make your "bleeding obvious" into "WOW-Other Cultures!"

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: mack/misophist
Date: 03 May 04 - 04:56 PM

In a life spent mostly in San Francisco (where there is a large Irish community), I've met two native Gaelic speakers. The estimates I've seen say native speakers are found mostly in the west of Ireland and reckon them to be 3-7% of the population.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 May 04 - 05:01 PM

George, I say this with great respect, as I have always enjoyed your posts. In the US there is great diversity of language. In fact there are whole neighborhoods in every great American city where the signage is in any number of languages. With regard to Gaeilge, it has been said that during the last half of the nineteenth century and the early twentieth centurty there were probably more speakers of Gaeilge in the States than there were in Ireland. Every major city, and many secondary cities have tuition available in the language.

Mick

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,Statesthebleedingobvious
Date: 03 May 04 - 06:47 PM

MartinRyan, it is not at all bleeding obvious; but even if it is, it is still English. Why do people learn Irish when it would be more productive to learn French, Spanish, Italian, Russian, anything but bloody pointless Irish? I am quite aware of other cultures but it seems to me that if you go into any household in Ireland then the language that they will be speaking will be English. To try and comunicate in Gaelic will probablly be received with blank stares and in fact would be considered the height of rudeness. As my name states, I am only stating the bleeding obvious.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: MartinRyan
Date: 03 May 04 - 09:05 PM

GUEST
You'd be surprised (pleasantly or otherwise)by how many households would greet Gaelic with welcoming smiles rather than blank stares! Apart from that - es mas facil apprender el tercero despues del segundo!

Regards

p.s. I'm fascinated to find the two ads at the foot of this page offering classes in IRISH - and ARABIC! Wonder what that second association is about?

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Celtaddict
Date: 03 May 04 - 11:04 PM

Now it also offers Portuguese, in one day no less!
Fergie, by "here" I meant on (in? at?) the Mudcat.
I have just enough Irish to be polite when I visit in the Gaeltacht where I have some dear friends and chosen family and family-once-removed. I can follow the most basic of conversations and use everyday sayings. It is a joy to see the response of those I know and the strangers I meet; I have seen repeatedly the pleasure people of a variety of places take in a visitor taking the time, making the effort, to use the local language, even if only a bit. I hope one day to be able to read more of the poems and songs in their original language, as of course there have been so many gifted Irish writers in both languages.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 04 - 12:18 PM

i'd like to learn irish...but i wouldn't know where to find out where I can learn...

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Sunga
Date: 04 May 04 - 07:05 PM

I am planning a trip to Ireland in August and have been talking to people about their experiences there. One couple I spoke with told me that they found themselves in small towns where only Irish was spoken.

Seems to me that not only is it not a dead language, but it would be very useful to learn some basics prior to visiting there - just as one would want to do when travelling in any country where your language (in my case, American English) is not the primary language spoken.

I picked up a book for learning Gaelic, but it turned out to be Scottish and also was not well thought out in its teaching. If anyone can recommend a book with or without tapes/cds, it would be much appreciated.

Slainte,
Sunga

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: MartinRyan
Date: 04 May 04 - 07:50 PM

In fairness, it would be quuite unusual to end up in a town in Ireland, small or otherwise, where only Irish was spoken! Don't worry about it.

Regards

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Jim McCallan
Date: 04 May 04 - 07:57 PM

Though in fairness also, I have been in some communities, especially in Donegal, and Connemara, where if the people didn't have to speak English, they wouldn't.

Jim

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: MartinRyan
Date: 04 May 04 - 08:02 PM

Is fíor sin, gan dabht.

Le meas

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,Statesthebleedingobvious
Date: 05 May 04 - 01:40 AM

There really is a lot of nationalist misty-eyed nonsense talked about gaelic. The language spoken is English. That is the official language and that is the spoken language. How many books are written in Gaelic? How many tv programmes go out in gaelic? How many Irish people have you met who speak galeic - and who cannot speak English? Oh get real everyone!

Oh yes, and I know everyone in Europe can speak more than one language - usually the language of their neibours and the living language at that.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 05 May 04 - 03:53 AM

GUEST,Statesetc, you say in a previous post "Why do people learn Irish when it would be more productive to learn French, Spanish, Italian, Russian, anything but bloody pointless Irish?".

I will try to point out the obvious to you: One does not only learn languages for productivity reasons. Some of us do it to understand other cultures better and benefit from that.

And don't try that "dead culture" horse-poo either. Peoples die. Languages die out. Cultures always exist, even if nobody espouses them, as long as their artifacts and products exist.

Why, some of us even sing old/ancient songs for similar reasons.

And then again, others like you just like to troll. Do us all a favour and get back into your box. We'll call you when we need you.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 05 May 04 - 04:45 AM

Sadly I only have a very few words. My great Gran though came to the uk and only spoke Irish. Wish it'd carried on down.

Ella

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: pavane
Date: 05 May 04 - 06:26 AM

Welsh and Gaelic would have been more widely spoken today if the English had not actively tried to suppress them in the past
(from an Englishman living in Wales)

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Pied Piper
Date: 05 May 04 - 06:57 AM

I agree with your point Pavan but "the English" implies a collective act rather than an attempt by the authorities to commit cultural genocide.
I'm English but have no wish to suppress the native Welsh speakers that live only 40 miles from where I live.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,Dáithí mag Fhionnaín
Date: 05 May 04 - 07:01 AM

SBO's (if you'll forgive the abbreviation)views on the Irish language are not new. Many irish people over the last 200 years have felt the same - that one must give up one's native tongue (rural, backward, unsophisticated etc) and embrace the language of the invader (jobs, prestige , status etc).We all know why.
The resuklt is what we see in Ireland today. Most who learn the language at school leave it alone as soon as they are able.
The gaeltacht areas are shrinking , with fewer mother tongue speakers evry year.
(But for the record SBO, Irish IS one of the two official languages of the republic, with a new Official Languages Act just coming into force to provide equal rights for native speakers - who probably number around 30,000 nowadays.
So much for history and politics then.
The actual living health of the language however belies both thesep oints - and SBO's narrow views.
There are now over 13000 children being educated through the medium of Irish at Gaelscoileanna in Dublin, plus another 11000 or so in Belfast. Language classes proliferate both North and South of the border. In addition many thousands travel from all over the world to learn Irish in the Gaeltacht - I myself attend a summer school every year in Donegal and meet learners and enthusiasts from all over the world - Finland, Germany, USA, Canada, Japan, Holland...you name the country and there will be Irish speakers there.
Although it's true to say that Irish is weak even in the Gaeltacht areas, it is actually growing like never before as a second language in the rest of Ireland, as well as across the globe. As others have said, there are classes and events for irish in most countries.
Books, magazines and newspapers abound. In Ireland we have both TV and radio channels in Irish.
So..what SBO says is totally irrelevant, thanks very much.
In England where I live, there is a growing network of Irish speakers ad learners - we meet up all over the country for social occasions and lessons, weekend and one day events - to speak the language of our people and to celebrate a unique culture, music and literature.
Also, did I mention...it's FUN!

So if SBO isn't interested...so what? More fun for the rest of us.
Adh môr - agus beannachtaí geal oraibh go leir - Dáithí

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,Letty
Date: 05 May 04 - 07:43 AM

... and even if Irish died, I'd still like to learn it.

Letty, lover of useless old languages like Latin, Anglo-Saxon,
Dutch (hey, only 20 million speakers), Irish (medieval and modern), Gaelic and currently learning Old Norse.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,Dáithí mag Fhionnaín
Date: 05 May 04 - 08:11 AM

Hey Letty - is it you were at the 6 Bells in Barrow on sunday?

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 05 May 04 - 11:54 AM

Quoth Martin Ryan:- p.s. I'm fascinated to find the two ads at the foot of this page offering classes in IRISH - and ARABIC! Wonder what that second association is about?

I presume the association was terrorism ;-)

It's now become "Speak Portuguese in 1 day". That's the sort of shite that discredits language learning.

For the record, I had a very good standard of Irish by the time I left school - we even had a debating society in which we would pontificate fluently with the wisdom of our eighteen years - but one's mastery of any language, and especially the ability to express oneself fluently in it, decays very quickly if it is not used regularly.

Most Irish people have probably heard the story of the Irish pilgrim who gets lost in Rome, spots a priest wearing a fáinne and exclaims "Oh thank God, at last here's someone that speaks English!"

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 05 May 04 - 12:24 PM

SBO would seem to have little interest in social history. That is his entitlement, and his loss. Maybe, too, he (or I suppose she) is handicapped by a lack of imagination. If SBO could imagine just for a moment that he had staked all on English, as he seems to have done, only to see it swept aside by a language with a bigger following (he probably didn'tknow there were any).... Well I can imagine how quickly his smugness would fade, even if he can't.

Three languages is in fact an understatement for many intellectuals in western Europe. I know some who speak four to six (four is almost the norm for many Swiss). Robert Maxwell, who was not an intellectual by any stretch, and had only a peasant education until making hisself known to British intelligence in WW2, spoke nine languages. He was willing to negotiate in six and was accepted as a native speaker in four or five.

For anyone prepared to make some small effort, and who has a mind slightly more open than SBO's, learning a language is no big deal. How far you go with it after that obviously depends on what opportunies you get to use/develop it. Which reminds me, I'm learning Croatian at present, to speed up some research I'm doing. If anyone can put me in touch with people who can speak and write it, I'd appreciate a PM.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,Statesthebleedingobvious
Date: 05 May 04 - 06:06 PM

Oh dear oh dear oh dear! I seem to be making myself misunderstood. There is nothing wrong with learning a language - the more the merrier - but the point I'm making is that it is not necessary to learn gaelic to go to Ireland. In fact, it is a waste of time. If you were a, for instance, french speaker, it would make more sense to learn english if you were going to Ireland. English is not the language of the oppressor, it is the everyday language of the people. That is a fact. If people want to learn a dead language, then that is fine, but it is purely an academic study, nothing more. Satsifying to the intellect, maybe, but not something of any practical use.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Jim McCallan
Date: 05 May 04 - 10:01 PM

But it isn't a dead language, no more than Scots Gaelic is, having around 80,000 native speakers.

Jim

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,Letty
Date: 06 May 04 - 07:26 AM

Daithi: yes that was me!
Wasn't it a great session?

And, having lived in Cork for two years now, I have to agree that of course you don't need Irish to get by in Ireland.
However, I've also found that people usually like it if you can speak a couple a phrases (mind you, I'm not talking about insisting on using Irish when addressing shopkeepers, which is nearly pedantic, but using it in a social context).

Another example: I am from the Netherlands, where the national language, Dutch, is very much alive. It is possible, however, to get by with English or German as well, especially in touristy places. And most tourists don't bother with Dutch at all. That doesn't matter, as most Dutch people will gladly speak English to you. Nevertheless, I really appreciate it when a foreigner tries his/her hand on Dutch! Even a couple of phrases would do the trick, you're just showing that you take an interest. So,

Tot ziens!
Letty

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 06 May 04 - 07:35 AM

...like "Is er een Engelssprekende gids?" ;-)

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 06 May 04 - 10:07 PM

of - "mag ik een biertje en een paar broodjes, alstublieft?".
Excuses, dat zou "een broodje en een paar pilsjes" zijn...

Mijn favoriete word: Hottentotentiententtentoonstelling

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 07 May 04 - 05:33 AM

enlargement and minoritised languages: 'English the worst killer language' says expert
http://www.eurolang.net/news.asp?id=4548

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,Dáithí
Date: 07 May 04 - 11:07 AM

yep. Letty - Bhí sé seisiun mór,cinnte!
Glad to see you made it back to Cork safe and sound.
Hope to hear you again sometime!
Beannachtaí geal ort
D

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Fear Faire
Date: 07 May 04 - 11:12 AM

'Who Needs Irish?'
[Bog / Paperback]        €14.95

'Who Needs Irish?'
Reflections on the Importance of the Irish Language Today.
Edited by Ciarán Mac Murchaidh
Veritas 2004
ISBN 1853907774

Who Needs Irish? is a collection of essays in English for all those interested in the Irish-language today. Why does the Irish language evoke such a range of feelings in people? Why does the debate come across as being so polarised? Who Needs Irish? tries to answer these questions and more.
Contributors include Alan Titley, Éilís Ni Dhuibhne, Gabriel Rosenstock, Lillis Ó Laoire, Donncha Ó hÉallaithe, Neasa Ní Chinnéide, Muireann Ní Mhóráin, Kate Fennell, Máirín Nic Eoin, Breandán Ó Doibhlin, Lorcán Mac Gabhann, Pádraig Ó Mianáin and Anna Heusaff

Available from www.litríocht.com

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 07 May 04 - 12:38 PM

Statethecan'tspeakwithouteffingandblinding is using a classic rhetorical ploy - to move a discussion to what *you* want to talk about, rather than what it's originally about. May I suggest that he start his own lonely thread where he can raven on about the pointlessness of Irish?

Meanwhile, there are various internet resources - Gaeilge-B maillist, SBO (the Skye Gaedhlig college), Everson Gunn Teo, etc. But the best way to learn Irish is to move to the Gaeltacht and speak it.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 07 May 04 - 03:59 PM

Who Needs Irish? more easily available to US mudcatters from Irish Books and Media in Minnesota, www.irishbook.com , they're shipping my copy on Tuesday.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,Siobháinín
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 10:03 PM

SBO's comments tell me far more about the kind of person he/she is than they do about the state of the Irish language. I've met plenty of the same miserable short-sighted ethnically impoverished begrudgers before. Thank the powers that be that the spirit of the language has survived the numerous attempts to obliterate it fromt he face of the earth and that it continues to grow is testament to the will and spirit of its people. I for one am proud of it, proud to speak it and have no shortage of people to speak it with - even in the Antipodes!

I recommend the following:

1) "In the most recent censuses (1991), over a million people in the Republic and over 140,000 in the Six Counties reported themselves as having a reasonable proficiency in the language. What that self-assessment actually means is endlessly debated. Less commonly discussed is the fact that the figure keeps going up, which may mean an increase in language ability, or an increase in willingness to admit to it, or even just an increasing desire to think of oneself as Irish-speaking. What it can't mean is anything particularly bad for the language."

Fios Feasa
Baile na Buaile
An Daingean
Co. Chiarraí


2) Get a life SBO!

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: skarpi
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 07:37 AM

I am learning on my own here in Iceland, I know there are one or two others who have learned the Old Irish here in Iceland, but this is very hard to learn
. I sing a song along playing the bodhrán and it is called " Oró Sé
Do Bheatha Bhaile " but is coming it takes time to learn how to
say the words and that is difficult.
All the best Skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: belfast
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 11:52 AM

My knowledge of the language is, to say the least, limited but I make occasional and sporadic attempts to improve it. What is a bit surprising is that there are those who find the notion of anyone trying to learn Irish an irritant. They appear to get positively angry at the idea. 'Dead language' is one of the phrases that is always used though as a description it appears to be wishful thinking rather than a description of reality. Andt seems you shouldn't learn Irish because Yeats, Wilde, Joyce (well, sometimes),Shaw etc all wrote in English. Which is about as useful as telling a citizen of Prague that he shouldn't speak Czech because Kafka wrote in German. But talking about writers here's what James Plunkett has to say on the subject. He was in Dingle and was recognised by a native of the place. He was pleased to be so but perhaps slightly embarrassed. As he says ...
" If he had presented me with the Freedom of Dingle, I wouldn't have been so genuinely honoured and I felt, not for the first time, that before I die I will speak my native language adequately enough to talk with those of my countrymen who have it from birth, so that they won't shame me by having to change to English on my account."
That paragraph struck a chord with me for I have been a guest in a house in Mayo where the normal day-to-day language of the family was Irish. Because of my presence they spoke in English.

In a couple of days time I will be in Paris and, as on previous visits, I will occasionally use my barely adequate French. It's not necessary but I'm told that it's polite to make the effort. Not that I would claim that courtesy is in any way useful or productive.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: PoppaGator
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 02:37 PM

Among other things, "bleedingobvious" wrote this back in May:

"...How many tv programmes go out in gaelic? ... Oh get real everyone!"

For what it's worth, when I was traveling in Ireland in August '03, I watched a half-hour Irish-language "Dating Game"-type TV show one evening in my B&B bedroom in County Clare. Couldn't understand a word, but found the spectacle completely fascinating anyway.

While it's probably certain that the Irish tongue will never re-emerge to replace English as the everyday language of Ireland, the worldwide effort to keep it alive is, at the very least, quite impressive. No, you don't *need* to learn Irish to travel in Ireland, but it's awe-inspiring to contemplate how many people *want* to learn.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,Fionntáin
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 06:18 AM

I found your entries whilst confirming the lyrics I sing to my child every night of Báidín Fheilidhmidh (excellent last song for drifting off), I was glad to see that my use of the séimhiú is correct in bhóidheach although I do not recall learning the long o in Toraigh.
As a visitor to Gola (but not Tory), I fondly remember learning the song on the boat trip.

Thanks for the link to the book in this thread, I will certainly look it up. As parents, we decide to send our child to a Irish-speaking school for multiple reasons and despite not learing enmoured with the learning of a language through the Department's syllabus at the time, my memory for Irish vocabulary has appeared to be re-invigorated and we are considering how best to proceed.


Anyway, if you have simple advice on how best to support my children's learning of the language, I would be most grateful. We have already obtained a CD, some early learning books as Gaelige but have stopped short of attending beginner/intermediate classes. Yes, the day has already arrived when our child (4) has been able to tell us the word in Irish for something. Scary, nach ea ?

Regards,

Fionntáin.

P.S. With an influence from Donegal on my side (holidays not family) and from the west tip of Galway (Béal an Daingean) on my wife's side, our recollections of phrases and pronounciations differ somewhat. Rather than this being an obstacle as it was in school, I find myself surprised to say that it adds to the enjoyment. ( Even to a logical, black and white matematicain/computer head as I am :)

P.P.S. A discussion with my mother (a fluent speaker) on different dialects enlightened me to dialects which do not include the well-publicised (Uladh, Connacht is Mumhan). She described the Clare dialect which apparently is no longer well-practised.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 06:53 AM

Irish, Welsh, Scots Gselic...they are "dead", but they won't admit it and lie down. Stupid bloody Celts, aren't they irritating.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Com Seangan
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:14 AM

Greg. Your last comment, while meant to insult the Celts, is a comment on your own mentality. The Irish language is not just another way of comminicating - the phrases, the blessings, the poetry and the proverbs encapture the uniqueness oif a distinct people. As does the French language for the French and the Japanese language for the Japanese. Vive la difference !

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:26 AM

Com Seangan: I'm afraid you didnt understand my post at all. Are you by any chance American? (I ask that because I admit my post was heavily ironic, and some people claim that Americans dont understand that).
   What I was saying was that many people (mainly English, like the prolific poster earlier) keep referring to the Celtic languages as dead, but I was pointing out that these irritating Celts, even if clever English people tell them they are dead, still refuse to lie down. I am absolutely delighted that these languages survive, and I hope they will for ever.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 05:17 AM

fair play to ye, Fionntáin
I would think that the bodies that promote Irish-medium education would have suggestions for pro-active parents such as you and your wife.
Gaelscoileanna
Comhairle na Gaelscolaíochta (promoting Irish-medium education in Northern Ireland)

Comhluadar is an organisation for families raising children with Irish. They can provide "a free stater pack of Irish language books provided by The National Reading Council." ("pacáiste leabhar Gaeilge ata ar fáil saor in aisce ... le dea-mhéin An Tionscnamh Náisiúnta Léitheoireachta")- I hope that info is still current!

there are some Mudcat threads about Irish-language Christmas songs, Jingle Bells translated is one topic, which may be of interest to you.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,Nollaig
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 07:48 AM

http://ite.ie/nollaig/gaeilge.htm Irish language Christmas resources

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 11:10 AM

Greg, this is one Yank who clearly understood the ironic, and tongue planted firmly in cheek, nature of your post.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Fliss
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 03:40 PM

A Chairde,
Dear Friends,

Gabhaim pardún agaibh as an teachtaireacht seo i mBéarla.
My apologies to you for this message in English.

Níl mé ach ag tosú ar an teanga a fhoghlaim.
I'm only beginning to learn the language.

Beir bua agus beannacht,
Best wishes,

Ps I found all that on the internet.

Well weve started our lessons on a Sunday morning at THe Birchmeadow Centre, Broseley. Telford UK. I have only learned a few bits up till now.

Id love to be able to say a few sentences by the time I get to the All Ireland FLeadh in Letterkenny next August.

I know I dont need to learn Irish to visit Ireland, or for that matter any language to visit any country... I could be stodigely British and stick to English. But I think it is a compliment to the host country to at least have a willingness to learn enough of their language to say Please and THank you.

Mind you I have enough problems spelling in English let alone gaelic!

cheers me dears.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 04:52 PM

It is my opinion that when you refer to Gaeilge in English, you should call it "Irish" as opposed to "Gaelic".

Mick, ducking and heading for the hedges.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 04:20 AM

hey Fionntáin, if you ever get back here, please scroll up to my message of 9 Nov. for a reply to your query

I don't want to discourage you, Fliss, but when I was at Oireachtas na Gaeilge in Letterkenny I found it difficult to get a positive response when I spoke Irish to staff at the festival venues, the daily staff who were not there specifically for the festival. I believe the Fleadh will have a drop-in centre to encourage people who wish to speak Irish together.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Fliss
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 11:44 AM

Thanks for that, Philippa. Im just chuffed to be able to play the music. I want to learn a bit of the language so I can sing the songs in gaelic. So far Ive stuck to singing in English.

fliss

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Com Seangan
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 05:53 PM

Greg: Apologies that I misunderstood your post.
Tiocfaidh ár lá.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 06:45 PM

And I apologise for teasing you! It is fatally easy to make yourself misunderstood typing things out on the internet....it will never replace having a chat over a pint!
Slainte

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,Criostóir
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 11:50 PM

Thanks for a great affirmation of the Irish language everyone, even SBO whose promptings probably kept the thread going long enough for me to see it (I haven't been a regular up to this).

Irish is certainly not dead even if it is, along with several minority languages of Europe, on the endangered list. Any debate on the Irish language (its utility,significance, etc) generates a lot of heat and some occasional bitterness among Irish people which on the face of it must be a cause for wonderment on the part of innocent bystanders. Anyone who is wondering why this is so should read That most interesting book, "The Great Silence", by Seán de Fréine. Its an overview of the fortunes of the language through the centuries, why it declined, how it yet managed to survive, etc, within a context of the cultural conflict it has had to cope with and still does. The book was published in the mid-1960s, but is still highly relevant and may be available in libraries or secondhand bookstores or on the internet.

Chom Seangán, caithfidh gurb as Chontae Phortláirge tú? Is trua é gur bhris ar na Déise i mbliana ach 'beidh lá eile ag an bPaorach!

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Jack Hickman
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 09:49 AM

Irish is far from being a dead language. All one has to do is visit the web site of Daltai na Gaeilge (Studies in Iish)www.daltai.com. This organization has been around for over 20 years and offers immersion weekends in various parts of the US for learners at all levels.

I live in a small city, Kingston, Ontario, where we have a thriving Irish language programme under the auspices of the local branch of Comhaltas Ceoltoiri Eireann. We hold an annual Irish Language Immerion weekend in the spring, which attracts upwards of a hundred people interested in perfecting or improving their Irish language skills. And these are people who live in North America, not Ireland.

There's a saying in Irish, "Tir gan teanga, Tir gan anam" which translated to English means "A country without a language is a country without a soul." Maybe one of the Irish speakers on this thread can correct any errors in that expression

Jack Hickman

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,Criostóir
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 08:37 PM

Well said, Jack a chara. As an Irishman living abroad I marvel at the enthusiasm for Irish among people of Irish and part-Irish ancestry around the world and I only wish that it were easier to obtain trained teachers for the many groups of learners clamouring for access to classes.

A friend of mine, a teacher of Irish dancing, said to me recently, 'why isn't there a system for accrediting Irish language teachers around the world similar to that for dancing teachers? I couldn't really answer her. Conradh na Gaeilge/The Gaelic League would seem to be the obvious body to organise such a system but it doesn't appear to be too concerned. Gael Linn is another body that might have the organisational wherewithal but failing that the Irish government itself should surely take some responsibility. Perhaps a system of scholarships for people with fluent Irish who are interested in doing a short course in teaching at a centre like Áras Uí Chaidhin, Gleann Cholmcille, Dún Chaomháin, Oileán Chléire or Coláiste na Rinne?

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,Fionntáin
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 11:02 AM

Hi Philippa,
             Many thanks, will check given references. Sorry for delay in replying.

The other day, our four-year old was able to improve our fóclóir rather the other way around. Must get moving with those lessions and practice.

Go raibh maith agat,

Fionntáin.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Strupag
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 07:09 PM

I reckon that the Scots, Irish, Welsh, Manx, Cornish, Bretons and Galecians should all get together and declare war on the Basques!

Andy

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,Criostóir
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 10:12 PM

There's really no need for us to declare war on anyone, it has been waged against our cultures for centuries but...WE"RE STILL HERE! Anyway, thanks for your contribution there, Strupag/Andy, it will add immeasurably to the debate I'm sure and help to keep the thread 'live'.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Den
Date: 18 Nov 04 - 11:49 PM

I was going to make a comment on this thread about our guest "states etc", but then I thought what would be the point. Nice thread everyone, I enjoyed reading it.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Nov 04 - 12:50 AM

I do not speak Gaelic but I have heard it spoken fluently in Kerry. If you are in The S.W. of Ireland, you will hear the language spoken (especially if its something they don't want you to understand). Hearing it makes you want to speak it. I think it is the most beautiful languages in the world. Why do you think there are so many good writers and singers from Ireland?

Even if English is the predominant language, the cultural norms of the Irish are still interwoven with their native language. Speak English, for sure, but don't let the native language die unless you wish to destroy a vital cultural ingredient.

d

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 05:49 AM

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: Gaucho
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 03:50 PM

I like to think of it as the soul of the irish people and land laid bare, in away that English can only swing a blunt stick at never mind capture. May it live on and continue to nourish us forever!
G

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 07:03 PM

For those who want to learn Irish, there's a Pimsleur basic course, which should give you a good start. Go to amazon.com and search for pimsleur irish, and it'll pop up.

States is right in a way; after all, look at the way the Romans wiped out thousands of cultures as their empire spread, starting with their Etruscan neighbours. The language, dance, stories, customs, herbal knowledge, lullabies, songs, paintings and all other marks of their beautiful individual culture was gone forever; all we have to remember the Etruscans by, for instance, is the statues with those beautiful smiles.

States is taking the Confucian view: if your culture is going to be raped, like back and enjoy it.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From: belfast
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 06:15 AM

I refresh this thread merely to note that I hear that in the film "Million Dollar Baby" Clint Eastwood plays a character who, among other things, is learning Gaeilge. He deserves an Oscar for that alone.

Subject: RE: Irish language speakers
From:
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 02:02 AM

I'm from Cyprus I'd like to speak irish but i don't. I support the rivival of the Irish Language.
Welsh has 600 000 speakers.
Scottish Gaelic 65 000