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Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'

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ARTIFICIAL MEANS


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GUEST,emily rain 06 May 04 - 05:02 PM
Clinton Hammond 06 May 04 - 05:17 PM
Joe Offer 06 May 04 - 05:19 PM
GUEST,emily rain 06 May 04 - 05:37 PM
open mike 06 May 04 - 05:47 PM
Joe Offer 06 May 04 - 09:44 PM
JennyO 06 May 04 - 10:09 PM
GUEST,emily rain 06 May 04 - 10:43 PM
Peace 06 May 04 - 10:57 PM
Amos 06 May 04 - 11:23 PM
Amos 07 May 04 - 12:03 AM
Marion 07 May 04 - 12:07 AM
Thomas the Rhymer 07 May 04 - 01:03 AM
dianavan 07 May 04 - 04:44 AM
George Papavgeris 07 May 04 - 05:20 AM
GUEST,Bill Kennedy 07 May 04 - 08:28 AM
GUEST 07 May 04 - 08:32 AM
GUEST 07 May 04 - 09:54 AM
Thomas the Rhymer 07 May 04 - 11:14 AM
el ted 07 May 04 - 11:19 AM
GUEST,MMario 07 May 04 - 11:25 AM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 07 May 04 - 11:36 AM
GUEST,bbc at work 07 May 04 - 11:53 AM
GUEST,MMario 07 May 04 - 11:56 AM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 07 May 04 - 12:04 PM
Willie-O 07 May 04 - 12:19 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 07 May 04 - 03:09 PM
Clinton Hammond 07 May 04 - 03:29 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 07 May 04 - 03:31 PM
Clinton Hammond 07 May 04 - 04:02 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 07 May 04 - 05:32 PM
GUEST,emily rain 07 May 04 - 05:44 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 07 May 04 - 05:55 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 07 May 04 - 08:19 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 07 May 04 - 08:36 PM
MAG 07 May 04 - 09:14 PM
emily rain 07 May 04 - 09:31 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 07 May 04 - 10:29 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 07 May 04 - 11:53 PM
Peace 08 May 04 - 12:02 AM
Thomas the Rhymer 08 May 04 - 12:35 AM
Cluin 08 May 04 - 01:15 AM
dianavan 08 May 04 - 01:38 AM
George Papavgeris 08 May 04 - 02:39 AM
Clinton Hammond 08 May 04 - 03:56 AM
Thomas the Rhymer 08 May 04 - 10:20 AM
Ebbie 08 May 04 - 12:03 PM
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bbc 09 May 04 - 12:52 PM
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MAG 10 May 04 - 01:47 AM
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Subject: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: GUEST,emily rain
Date: 06 May 04 - 05:02 PM

Christine Lavin's song "Sensitive New Age Guys" is just so darn funny... I hate to see it fade into outdated obscurity. Find the original lyrics here...

How about:
who like to cry at weddings
who think "kill bill" is upsetting
who tapes "queer eye for the straight guy" on the VCRs
who's got "peace is patriotic" stickers on their cars, oh

what other updates can a person insert? can this song be saved?


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 May 04 - 05:17 PM

You can talk New Age all ya want
It's old age gonna get ya in the end!


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Subject: ADD 'Sensitive New Age Guys' (Christine Lavin)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 May 04 - 05:19 PM

I have to say that this is the kind of song that makes guys, er...."sensitive." I don't know whether to thank him or not, but Jim Dixon posted the original Christine Lavin lyrics here (click).
-Joe Offer, nervous-


Thread #34081   Message #458386
Posted By: Jim Dixon
08-May-01 - 08:32 PM
Thread Name: Songs that make you laugh out loud
Subject: Lyr Add: SENSITIVE NEW-AGE GUYS^^

SENSITIVE NEW-AGE GUYS
(Words and Music by Christine Lavin and John Gorka, Copyright 1990 CL2 (ASCAP) & Blues Palace Music (ASCAP))

[Words in parentheses are sung by a male chorus.]

Who likes to talk about their feelings?
(Sensitive new-age guys.)
Who's into crystals, into healing?
(Sensitive new-age guys.)
Who likes to dress like Richard Simmons?
(Sensitive new-age guys.)
Who are hard to tell from women?
(Sensitive new-age guys.)
Who likes to cry at weddings?
Who thinks boxing is upsetting?
Who tapes "The Frugal Gourmet" on their VCR?
Who's got "Baby on Board" stickers on their cars? Oh…
(Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh)

Whose last names are hyphenated?
(Sensitive new-age guys.)
Who walked out of "Long Dong Silver," a movie they hated?
(Sensitive new-age guys.)
Whose consciousness is constantly raising?
(Sensitive new-age guys.)
Whose low pain threshold is amazing?
(Sensitive new-age guys.)
Who thinks that red meat is disgusting?
Who's into UFO's channeling, and usting?
Who believes us when we say we've got premenstrual syndrome?
Who doesn't know who plays in the Seattle Kingdome?

Who likes music that's repetitious?
(Sensitive new-age guys.)
Who likes music that's repetitious?
(Sensitive new-age guys.)
Who's concerned about your orgasm?
[silence… then spoken:] (Hey, we're not *that* sensitive.)
Well, I guess it's more important that they have 'em.
(Sensitive new-age guys.)
Who carries the baby on his back?
Who thinks Shirley MacLaine is on the inside track?
Who always sings on sing-alongs,
Even when they can't stand stupid sing-alongs?


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: GUEST,emily rain
Date: 06 May 04 - 05:37 PM

nervous? say it ain't so, joe!

are you nervous 'cause you recognize yourself and wonder just how friendly the ribbing is?

or 'cause you're not a thing like that and begin to tremble just thinking about guys who might be?

or because of the classic "damned if you do, damned if you don't" dilemma of modern men trying to find the proper balance between sexy machismo and endearing sweetness, on behalf of us hard-to-please ladies?

:)

i think the song is funny because it highlights the earnestness of good hearted guys bucking the masculine gender roles, and doing it more thoroughly than some good hearted gals. it's like the modern woman who wouldn't DREAM of letting a man kill a spider for her. she'll kill her own damn spider, thank you very much, and she'll change her oil and clean out the trap under the bathroom sink while she's at it, and you'll hear nary an "eww" or an "eek".

someone should write a song about that. i'll let you know if it makes me nervous.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: open mike
Date: 06 May 04 - 05:47 PM

S.N.A.G.'s you mean?


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 May 04 - 09:44 PM

OK, Emily, but do I have to dress like Richard Simmons? Come to think of it, I'm not sure about crystals and healing, either.

Just gimme pizza and beer, and turn on the ballgame.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: JennyO
Date: 06 May 04 - 10:09 PM

We have a group in Oz, called the Sensitive New Age Cowpersons


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: GUEST,emily rain
Date: 06 May 04 - 10:43 PM

well, see, that's why we're updating it. you can dress like kyan instead, or like, ummmmm... come on! help me out here!


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 04 - 10:57 PM

I'm a New Age guy. I think chicks should be treated with respect.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Amos
Date: 06 May 04 - 11:23 PM

Yeah, but you really have to hear her do it because there's this part at the end where she suddenly loses her male back-up chorus, who explain, "Look, Christine -- we're sensitive, but we're not THAT sensitive..."; well, it's in the lyrics,. but the timing on the performance is priceless...

A


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Amos
Date: 07 May 04 - 12:03 AM

I dunno who New Age guys dress like in your neck o' the woods -- around here, though, they dress like a cross between Harrison Ford and Robert Redford. But what would I know about "modernity"??

There's a delicate balance to be struck in extending these lyrics, between refreshing frankness and compassionate discretion. I have the refreshing frankness part down pretty good, but the compassionate discretion part makes my fingers bleed. I dunno what I am doing wrong!

A


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Marion
Date: 07 May 04 - 12:07 AM

A modern woman doesn't get a man to kill spiders for her OR kill them herself! A modern woman lets the spiders live! If she doesn't want them in the house for some reason, she traps them with a drinking glass and magazine and puts them outside.

Spiders are beautiful and useful. It's mosquitoes that should be killed.

Marion


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 07 May 04 - 01:03 AM

This thread is pissing me off... ?;^)


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: dianavan
Date: 07 May 04 - 04:44 AM

I don't like it either. I know plenty of guys who fit some of the categories but certainly not all of them. I'm sure if I heard the song I might think it was "cute" but maybe not.

Sensitive new age guys are men who want a woman to be all that she can be without being threatened.

Sensitive new age guys know how to use their words to convey emotion.

Sensitive new age guys are willing to learn from women.

Sensitive new age guys care about others, not just their current "squeeze"

Sensitive new age guys know how to multi-task.

Sensitive new age guys are not afraid of going bald.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 07 May 04 - 05:20 AM

I let my wife capture spiders in a box and put them outside the house. But that's a concession to her feelings - the usual response where I come from is to wallop them with a shoe.

I'm willing to learn from her. But after 31 years together I still cannot fold my shirts. I can iron square things a treat, mind you!

I'm not afraid of going bald. I keep telling her not to worry about it, and that hairpieces these days are made very realistic.

I multi-task all the time. Windows XP helps.

I want her to be all the she can, and I stopped threatening her.

And I know how to use words to convey emotion. 4-letter ones are best, especially when you just walloped your thumb with the hammer while trying to hang up her latest masterpiece. "Oh dear me, but this hurts!" does not cut it - you need effing and blinding.

I guess that makes me sensitive enough?
What do you mean "no", you *%&$"£"*&"(&%^ of a *&%$££%"!
It's tough being perfect...


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 07 May 04 - 08:28 AM

just let the stupid song die, please. she's no Tom Lehrer. her work is like much satire: it becomes dated quickly because it is too tied to 'current' events and concerns.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: GUEST
Date: 07 May 04 - 08:32 AM

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz............


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: GUEST
Date: 07 May 04 - 09:54 AM

I guess that some of you guys are not really comfortable with your masculinity. That must be what's getting you upset with this thread.
Latent girlyboys are you? Is the song hitting too close to home? I'm male and there is nothing unmasculine about being sensitive and being caring towards all people...males and females.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 07 May 04 - 11:14 AM

...are you nervous 'cause you recognize yourself and wonder just how friendly the ribbing is?...

No Em, don't flatter yourself. We're nervous, because the biases you display with a question like this are distructive to the growth and development of healthy human relations. Hidden in the closets of these thoughts are some very superior notions... fed by the media... that women have of themselves in relation to men. The nervousness is much akin to the 'pity' a victim feels toward their aggressor... the full knowledge that 'the powerful one' is making a mistake that is costing you both far too much...

---------
or because of the classic "damned if you do, damned if you don't" dilemma of modern men trying to find the proper balance between sexy machismo and endearing sweetness, on behalf of us hard-to-please ladies? -----------

OK... I'm gonna try here... The very notion that it is all about us men trying to please hard to please women is just toxic nonsense, imo. Untill women live up to their responsibilities as 'guidance systems' for men, and remember to act with love... this world is going to be laden with violence, drugs, divorce and war. So, while you pull the strings of conflict, 'ladies'... playing men off of each other to engender that 'sexy machismo' that 'gets you off'... Know that there are many of us (men and women) who find equality very satisfying, don't lose our sexual identity (or appetite for that matter) in compassion, and find the evolution of deeply rooted heterosexual interplay... deeply arousing.

Hrumph!

And yes, there are many of us also... who are intrinsicly turned off by parteners who try to 'take advantage of us'... to the exclusion of intimacy and the exhaltation of heterogender communicativeness.

If it wasn't so sad, ...it'd be funny.
ttr


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: el ted
Date: 07 May 04 - 11:19 AM

I had to re read it several times for it to sink in, but that is one hell of a post Thomas! Cheers for that.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 07 May 04 - 11:25 AM

BRAVO! Thanks for that post, TtR


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 May 04 - 11:36 AM

Some of you need to get out more. It is just a humours song. Talk about over-analyizing. Jeesh!


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: GUEST,bbc at work
Date: 07 May 04 - 11:53 AM

At the risk of being accused of taking things too seriously...I always look for the thread of seriousness in humor; it's usually there & it's frequently hurtful to the one being targeted by the humor. As a woman--yes--I can be amused by Christine's lyrics. On the other hand, I appreciate Thomas' remarks & I sympathize. IMO, women's lib has gone too far. Now, instead of women being supposed to bend over backwards to accomodate men (no smut intended), the reverse seems to be expected. What we need is equality--not sameness--and mutual respect. Given human nature, we may never reach it, but it's a goal for which to strive.

best,

bbc


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 07 May 04 - 11:56 AM

and BRAVA! to bbc


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 May 04 - 12:04 PM

As Groucho Marx said, if you have to analyze a joke it isn't funny.

I'm hoping that those of you who have commmented on Christine's song have at least listened to it or watched as she performs it.   No one is being hurt. There are no expectations of roles men OR women are supposed to play. It is a funny song about people who take things too seriously.

Maybe some listeners are just too "sensitive".


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Willie-O
Date: 07 May 04 - 12:19 PM

Holy crap. I'm with Ron. It's just a funny song circa 1990, OK? And you'll note, a co-write with John Gorka, the prototype New Age Songwriter Guy for the 90's.

And for balance, she also wrote Getting In Touch With My Inner Bitch

Emily, I'm glad to see you posting--a rare event anymore?

For an update, I don't think you'd tape anything on a VCR...that is just so 1994...

And I am upset with the premise of "Kill Bill".

Bill


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 07 May 04 - 03:09 PM

Sure, Ron... it's just a funny song. Look around you, these are serious issues. If Christine can be motivated to write a song like this, I'm certainly entitled to respond to it as I do, as you are. My reaction is honest. When humor is a weapon, to be used against others... you can count me out. It feels base and unproductive to me. Should I politely laugh? Ha Ha?

Believe me... it would be no considerable challenge for me to put people down for laughs... and money. I'd rather believe in the people around me. It's a whole new approach.

After long witnessing the side effects of malicious laughter, up close and personal, I'm not so sure it's all that productive.

ttr, lifting himslf out of the political current, muddy and soaked from head to foot, and laughing hard of his own foolishness...


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 May 04 - 03:29 PM

I used to quite happily label myself a SNAG, and the people that knew me then, would agree...

Eventually, I got tired of the "whimp" factor attached to being a SNAG, and I made a conscious effort to change...

Now, I am what I am...

Or...

I yam what I yam... U-gug-gug-gug-gug-gug...

There are too many Felix Ungers around these days... constantly 'playing' with themselves... Keep your omphaloskepsis....


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 May 04 - 03:31 PM

Your reaction, while it is honest to you, is very slanted Thomas. You are certainly entitled to it. I am also entitled to feel that you are overacting and mis-interpreting the intent of the song.

People can read anything they want - if you want to think Puff the Magic Dragon is a song about drugs you can, if you interpret it as a an environmental song you can, if you think it is a dramtic retelling of an ancient folktale - go for it. Most of us take the song for the children's song that Peter Yarrow intended it to be.   

It appears that you, and others on this list, are taking some very serious issues and trying to force your interpretation of Christine's motives and delivery on the song in question. "Humor as a weapon, to be used against others"?   If you take the time, every single joke or witty line could "be used against others".   

Lighten up people!!!    The issues that you bring up are real, but don't try to pin it on this simple song.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 May 04 - 04:02 PM

" I am also entitled to feel that you are overacting and mis-interpreting the intent of the song"

And yer not alone there RO...

It's like Richard Thompsons says at the end of the live version of Vincent Black Lightning...

"Pttf... It's just a song"


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 07 May 04 - 05:32 PM

Ron... please lay (f*ck)off... I don't agree with you, and what's more, I would take my first post in this thread as a re-write over the original Lavin song... which was the intent of this thread. Your motives for delegitimizing my point of view are suspect, and your use of private conversations I have had without you are illigitimate. My response to 'emily rain' may be more personal and complex than you could even imagine... So, take your slander and your slant away.

ttr


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: GUEST,emily rain
Date: 07 May 04 - 05:44 PM

well, second wave feminists were/are frequently accused of having no sense of humor because they refuse/d to laugh politely at misogynist humor... so i'll respect people's strongly held beliefs, and will refrain from flinging accusations of my own.

but gosh, is there anyone who wants to play with and enjoy this song, which is what the thread was for in the first place? or would we rather fight with each other? have i become an unwitting "troll", whose posts do nothing but sow discord and unhappiness? if this thread makes us unhappy, why are we reading and posting to it in the first place?

i'm gonna take my own implied advice, and read something else for a while.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 07 May 04 - 05:55 PM

You got me thinking at least... and my second post is a clear distillation of something I've been attempting to say for a long time. Thanks... C ya!


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 May 04 - 08:19 PM

Thomas, I guess you are having some problems and I am sorry for you. But when you say " your use of private conversations I have had without you are illigitimate" you are way out of bounds. I commented on your PUBLIC postings here.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 07 May 04 - 08:36 PM

You are guessing wrong, and sowing discord... like most if not all of your 'suppositions' about me... Ron... If you are feeling sorry for me, I'm laughing with you... But you're the joke... It is a beautiful rainy day. Have you anything positive to say? Or is it just Bad Thomas the Rhymer Bad Thomas the Rhymer Bad Thomas the Rhymer Bad Thomas the Rhymer Bad Thomas the Rhymer Bad Thomas the Rhymer Bad Thomas the Rhymer Bad Thomas the Rhymer Bad Thomas the Rhymer Bad Thomas the Rhymer...

...snicker...
ttr


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: MAG
Date: 07 May 04 - 09:14 PM

Emily, someone did write the song you were looking for way up there at the beginning of the thread ...

It's called "I'm doing my strong woman number" from the show *I'm getting my act together and taking it on the road.*

I especially like the ending: "And the men I love thinks it's wonderful/ that I can get along alone..."

This could be the anthem of us second wave feminists who had to put up with hostility not to be believed today.

Forthat matter, our take on the type who    has come to be called NSAG, and we are talking early 70's here, was that it was a new line.

Note that I AM talking about a TYPE here. Not all guys.

Dianavan, your list describes that wonderful kind of guy also called "male feminist."

I really really tried to stay away from this thread, people.

More and more I vote with my friend Elizabeth who calls herself a post-feminist, and, publicly, refuses any label at all.

"My favorite feminists don't let on too soon ..."

(" ... when I am surly, and when I am not they are very pleased ...")

Bob can come be my friend any time at all.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: emily rain
Date: 07 May 04 - 09:31 PM

wow, MAG, those lyrics are powerful... really hit me where i live. thanks for that.

(oops, i'm not reading this thread anymore! pay me no mind!)


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 07 May 04 - 10:29 PM

Hi MAG... I'm so sad to have been the target here again... especially as things are getting close to meaningful... Glad you could make it. It's good to feel your presence.

Emily Rain, Thanks for signing in... I was occasionally wondering wahether, why or if...

And Ron is continuing to 'hammer away' via PM...
Life is good!
ttr


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 May 04 - 11:53 PM

Come on Thomas, you know that the PM I sent you was hardly a case of "hammer away". I sent you a note that questioned why you posted a hostile note. I am sorry that you feel people are "targeting" you. If you re-read the posts you will see that is not the case. It has nothing to do with you.

Just because you have an opinion doesn't make you right.   We disagree and we discuss things here, but you turned it into something personal.    I apologize to everyone else for wasting their time with this note and for drifting the thread that Emily started.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Peace
Date: 08 May 04 - 12:02 AM

I think SNA Guys will get along just fine with SNA Girls.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 08 May 04 - 12:35 AM

Bingo brucie!

Ron... Ron... I'm making general points re: the subject at hand, which, I might add, I'm keenly interested in... You are continually making ME the issue... Talk about the issues here, and get off my case! What is your problem?
ttr


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Cluin
Date: 08 May 04 - 01:15 AM

Well, I thought it was a funny song.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: dianavan
Date: 08 May 04 - 01:38 AM

Mag - Ouch! Male feminist? I really do not like men that call themselves feminists. I immediately suspect that men who try to be what women want them to be are insincere. I would think, however, in this day and age, that men can be men and still respect women.

Wish lists are fun but lets not fall into the trap of thinking that men either fit into this category or that category. Most men seem to be a little of this and a little of that. They are learning, though. The really charming men are those that allow you to know the little boy that is still inside of them.

I raised a son on a university campus (in residence) in the late 80's. He was surrounded by radical feminists. I used to worry and wonder what kind of man he would turn out to be. Well - he's a new kind of man. Athletic, well read, thoughtful, does yoga, mostly vegetarian, very disciplined, popular with the ladies and a wonderful son. Most of all he's trustworthy and kind. Doesn't hate women at all. Does have a little trouble with the guys who think that revving their engines and flexing their muscles is worth something to someone. If I called him a male feminist, he'd probably tell me to go to the kitchen where I belonged.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 08 May 04 - 02:39 AM

The trouble is labels, and our general wish to pigeonhole people. That tends to drive us towards "black and white" definitions ans descriptions. So, to differentiate someone who is not, say, a Male Chauvinist, we have to slap a different label on, like Male Feminist or Sensitive New Age Guy (which is a silly label, its meaning is all in the connotations and not in the words themselves). But there is no label for "normal, decent human, respects women, etc).

Given that most of us are not perfect 100% of the time, what label can describe "respects women but occasionally laughs at mother-in-law jokes"?

On top of which, the "-ist" labels have connotations of being an activist for one cause or another, which most of us are not.

Labels are fine as a quick-and-dirty way of drawing a CARICATURE of a person. If you want to paint a more detailed and accurate picture of someone, or have a meaningful conversation on a subject, and are using labels, you are stuffed.

So I understand when your son doesn't want to be called a feminist, dianavan. He's right. He sounds a good bloke to know - for men or women.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 May 04 - 03:56 AM

"You are continually making ME the issue... "
RO was NOT the one who made -you- 'an issue'...

"I'm so sad to have been the target here again..."
The plaintiff cry of people who usually revel in making themselves targets...


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 08 May 04 - 10:20 AM

Bullseye! Thanks for clearing that up Clint... Like your 'fan club' there big guy? I'll open for you any music gig you choose...


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 May 04 - 12:03 PM

"We're nervous, because the biases you display with a question like this are distructive to the growth and development of healthy human relations. Hidden in the closets of these thoughts are some very superior notions... fed by the media... that men have of themselves in relation to women. The nervousness is much akin to the 'pity' a victim feels toward their aggressor... the full knowledge that 'the powerful one' is making a mistake that is costing you both far too much..."

We haven't come very far at all, have we. Traveling a circle is not progress.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 08 May 04 - 02:32 PM

Isn't it intense? sit on the fence
Or tear it down all over town
Just let it out... maybe just shout
But work it through, be a new you!


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Peace
Date: 08 May 04 - 06:32 PM

I think people shoud be treated with respect, male or female. Although I tend to hold more doors for women than men, I think that's the result of my childhood when my grandmom drummed into to me that kids stand when ladies or older people enter rooms, men give their seats to ladies on public transit vehicles, and men remove their hats when ladies are present. I am a dunce when it comes to combustion engines. Had a farm gal explain to me how to change oil and spark plugs. Didn't bother me a bit. I have on the odd occasion had females give me dirty looks for holding a door for them, but not often. And in 56 years I can only recall being glared at once for offering my seat to a lady. Hell, I cried when ET 'died'. If that makes me a SNAG, I can live with that.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: bbc
Date: 09 May 04 - 12:52 PM

Good posts, El Greko & brucie. Why can't we just treat people w/ respect, regardless of their sex? There is too much labeling & directed humor, imho. If humor has to have an object, perhaps it's not really humor.

bbc


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: SueB
Date: 09 May 04 - 03:38 PM

This thread really cracks me up! Especially the part where I was reminded of my "responsibility" as a woman to act as a "Guidance System for Men"! Oh my God, I almost snorted my French roast coffee right out my nose!

If the question is (I can't even remember for sure) how to update Christine Lavin's song for the New Millenium, the answer is :

metrosexuals

which only has five syllables as opposed to six, but we ought to be able to work with that. As far as I am able to discern, the major concerns of a metrosexual are, hair products, designer clothing and shoes, interior decoration, and hair products. Where's Freda - we could use her talents here.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: GUEST,Grab
Date: 09 May 04 - 07:22 PM

"can this song be saved?"

Probably not.

Like a lot of things, poking fun at your own group is considered a sign of a lively sense of humour, but poking fun at another group is often considered bad manners. Chris Rock can do a great stand-up routine about upwardly-mobile blacks, but I don't know that a white guy could get away with it. Maybe it's illogical, but hell, we're human, right? we're allowed to be illogical.

And I think the song wasn't really that funny in the first place - maybe if it had been a bit funnier, there'd be no objections. The "Inner Bitch" one I did like though - I know a few women who'd enjoy singing that one.

Graham.

PS. Happy to cry at weddings, and I don't feel the need to see lousy Tarantino films anyway. And my bumper stickers say "Go hang-gliding" on the left and "Give blood" on the right... ;-)


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: GUEST,ttr
Date: 09 May 04 - 08:29 PM

Sorry 'bout yor french toast, there SueB... Glad I could give you a chuckle... but you're much more powerful than you let on...

My point exactly, Grab... the recipient of such one sided and pseudo bigoted humor is 'expected' to chuckle along... simply because they are being coersed or some level... however slight...

...and yes, I do believe that making one's self the joke is much mre acceptable... But I've found that people often lose respect for someone who isn't out there tooting their own horn... 24/7. Oh well... if they are that easily disappointed...

the stakes are too low for such ridiculousness... imho.
ttr


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: SueB
Date: 09 May 04 - 10:53 PM

It was coffee, not french toast, but that's okay, Tom. You certainly are sensitive. I think you'd be more comfortable without that big ol' corncob, though. Is that the kind of guidance you were talking about? No, really, I'm just kidding around. But how about you guys try being responsible for your own selves, rather than laying it all on us girls. Are all the women in your life supposed to be in loco parentis?

I'm not your mommy, you know. I've got enough responsibilities without being responsible for some idiot guy. That's what I was laughing about, Tom. But thanks for reassuring me about my power.
Really.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Peace
Date: 09 May 04 - 11:04 PM

Hey, SueB, your loco parent is what?


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: SueB
Date: 09 May 04 - 11:52 PM

In loco parentis - Latin - means in the place of your parent, in case you weren't funning me, brucie...


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 10 May 04 - 12:29 AM

French roast? What a waste of perfectly good coffee. Now I'm really sad!

No, No. No parenting please. Totally off the chart for missing my drift there Sue... You ladies effect our actions and our goals... by what you will tollerate, and what you expect of us. If you stand your ground and communicate reasonably... the more 'open minded' of us (and there are more every day) will respond. You will get your 'better man'... and your better man will begin to know what it is to be 'less confused'... thanks to you.

BTW... I'm more than comfortable 'being a man'... so comfy, in fact, that I can fearlessly push the warp of what it actually means to BE one... without dwelling on images and posturing to prove anything.

...and while I'm at it... will you ladies PLEASE realisticly raise your standards of men... so we have something to work together on? Otherwise, we've just got to be unfeeling and wrong a lot... in that rather low loop of defensiveness... that some call 'manhood'.
ttr


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: MAG
Date: 10 May 04 - 01:47 AM

...and while I'm at it... will you ladies PLEASE realisticly raise your standards of men... so we have something to work together on? Otherwise, we've just got to be unfeeling and wrong a lot... in that rather low loop of defensiveness... that some call 'manhood'.
ttr

er, that's why so many of us second wavers are single, ttr --

(bg, ducking and running ...)


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: dianavan
Date: 10 May 04 - 12:05 PM

Ttr - You have to raise your own standards. Women have had to do that themselves. Women certainly have not changed according to what men have expected of them.

Men have to do it as well. The change will only happen when men start calling other men on their bullshit.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Peace
Date: 10 May 04 - 12:30 PM

SueB: I was funnin' ya. I work as a teacher. The term is part of The School Act. To act in place of the parent; to do what a responsible parent would do in like circumstances. But, thank you. BM


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 10 May 04 - 12:32 PM

Perhaps it's not as simple as that, dianavan. This is not a discrete process (recognise fault, correct) except perhaps for individuals. In the world at large, different men (and women) change at varying rates, and in response to varying stimuli (education, being teased, can't get a girlfriend etc). In this context, the opposite sex has its role to play, either positively (recognising and rewarding change) or, God forbid, negatively (talking about wanting sensitivity yet lusting after macho men).

I think that's what Ttr is on about - OK, we're trying to change, but don't hinder our progress by showing double standards as a sex. Neither does a "well, we did it ourselves, your turn now" encourage, as it can introduce a certain antagonism.

Thomas, I think we have to accept that while individual ladies may prefer one type of partner, there will also be those that prefer the other (I know this reads bad, but you know what I mean). We just have to plod on as best we can. And keep looking (I stopped 31 yrs ago, just lucky I guess).


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 May 04 - 02:10 PM

'Oversensitive New Age Guys' would be an update, but it's not a good word to fit in the metre.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Peace
Date: 10 May 04 - 03:04 PM

I don't fit in this category at all. I am a sensitive old age guy. But, I no longer find any humour in bad jokes: "Did you hearr about the gal who fell off her watter skis and broke the world's record for the hundred yard douche?" That ain't funny. I am not laughing. That's how sensitive I am.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: dianavan
Date: 11 May 04 - 12:21 AM

El Greko - Heres how I see it. As an invisible minority, I am often privy to racist jokes. I can sit there and play dumb so that I fit in or I can object and point out that its a racist remark.

Men can do the same. What I mean by educating each other, is just that simple. When you know that an attitude or a sexist remark is wrong, you have to speak up. Don't leave it to the ladies to always point it out. When men start telling men to 'smarten up' we will begin to see some real change. Sad to say, even when they know its wrong, most men will 'go along' because they do not want to appear 'new age' or....


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 11 May 04 - 02:23 AM

I agree with you dianavan... men can speak up to great avail... but women are stong in the trump suit, which are hearts in this case...

Excellent post El Greko... When she choses 'the other', she validates his 'ways'... and condones them with a nod that ripples out into society as Love then elevates them both...

Overly sensitive new age guys
Will share with you... meaning as well
But the man who will win every fighter denies
the humanity saved by the belle...
ttr


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 11 May 04 - 03:31 AM

Yes, dianavan is right on the education point. I guess to date I have been courageous enough to "block" such jokes some 25% to 50% of the time. Can do better... But I am proud to say that my son must be near the 100% mark. At age 17 he was correcting me already. At age 18 he married (an absolutely cracking lass from Canberra, an intelligent and pleasant corker of a girl), so he too went out of circulation early like his Dad.

I guess we, the good'uns, get snapped up early....;-)


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: dianavan
Date: 11 May 04 - 01:18 PM

El Greko - You are so right. All through high-school my son didn't date. When he mentioned that the girls seemed to prefer the guys with hot cars and big muscles, I told him not to worry. When you are a little older, the women will be looking for husbands and fathers and the game will change. Well, sure enough, it was the older gals who first noticed him. They wanted someone who was 'emotionally available' and someone they could trust.

You're right when you say the good ones get snapped up early.


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Subject: RE: Let's update 'Sensitive New Age Guys'
From: Cluin
Date: 11 May 04 - 01:30 PM

brucie, I'm laughing. Hadn't heard that one before...


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Subject: ADD: 'Sensitive New Age Guys' (2012)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 12:14 AM

SENSITIVE NEW AGE GUYS
(Christine Lavin - as she sang it in 2012)

Who like to talk about their feelings?
Sensitive New-Age Guys
Who knows if you kiss a booboo it will start healing?...
Whose dream car is a hybrid stationwagon?...
Whose favorite song is "Puff the Magic Dragon"?...

Who like to cry at weddings?
Who think that football is so very upsetting?
Whose favorite place to hang out is a shopping mall?
And at the movie "Castaway" cried for Wilson the volleyball? (Ooh…)

Whose last names are hyphenated?...
Who walked out of Long Dong Silver, a movie they hated?...
Who prefers clothing styles understated?...
Who thinks a full head of hair is overrated?...
Who think that red meat is disgusting?
Who's into UFO's, channelling & dusting?
Who wears Tikka sandals w/ black socks?
Who says John Tesh really rocks?
[or Who believes us when we say we have pre-menstrual tension?
Who doesn't mind if we get all the attention?]

Who likes music that's repetitious?... (repeat)
Who used to be wild men but now are calm?...
Who now call their wives "Mom!"?...
Who carries the baby on his back?
Who thinks the Dalai Lama is on the inside track?
Who sings on singalongs even when they
Can't stand stupid singalong songs? (Ooh…)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=surORFacJKA


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