Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam des Soldaten Weib From: Susanne (skw) Date: 12 Aug 08 - 06:42 PM Brecht wasn't the only one the SED found it hard to live with. There was Ernst Busch, actor and singer of many of Brecht's songs. His move to East Berlin must have seemed natural at the time, but in the early Fifties he was isolated by the Party and lost control of the Amiga record label he had founded right after the war. The 'ban' seems to have been caused by his slapping the GDR Minister of Culture or some other high-ranking figure in the face for insulting him. I've come across East Germans who didn't want to listen to him, due to overexposure - only to discover that quite a large part of his recordings had been kept from them, like the collection of cabaret songs by Tucholsky he re-recorded in the Sixties. Oops - thread-creep??? Lots of spam has been deleted from the bottom of this old thread, so it is closed for now. If you wish to post here, ask a moderator to reopen it. ---mudelf |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam des Soldaten Weib From: M.Ted Date: 12 Aug 08 - 04:42 PM Brecht was playwright by trade--he came from a middle/upper middle class family and had the same sort of aspirations that someone from that background would have. He made a lot of money on Threepenny Opera, and bought a country house with his money--He wrote for both Hollywood and Broadway, and if he was not commercially very successful, it was not for want of trying--he was politically on the left, but he was a social moralist rather than a political ideologist, and had no problem with any of the material rewards that his work brought him. Brecht escaped from the Nazis by way of Moscow, and had meetings there with Soviet Intelligence. He continued to have contact with them while he was in the US, though his relationship with them is not clear. As Germany's leading playwright, it was in the Soviets interest that he not speak out against them, and he never did. Likely, he was received in East Germany as a person of great importance because of his long standing relationship with the soviets, and because of his stature as a literary figure, rather than with any ideological agreement with his views. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam des Soldaten Weib From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 12 Aug 08 - 11:49 AM A man of the world, then. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam des Soldaten Weib From: Joe_F Date: 11 Aug 08 - 09:28 PM If Brecht was a real communist, he well knew the ways of surreal Communists. Before returning to (east) Germany from the U.S. (after making monkeys of the House Committee on Un-American Activities), he took care to provide himself with an Austrian passport and a Swiss bank account. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam des Soldaten Weib From: Joe Offer Date: 11 Aug 08 - 01:01 AM The SED (Communist Party/Socialist Unity Party of Germany) in East Germany had a love-hate relationship with Brecht. Pieces like "Marie Farrer" made them nervous, but they couldn't touch the best-known German Communist playwright. He may have been a Communist, but he was far above the propaganda and ideology. Perhaps he was a real Communist, close to the ideal that Marx imagined. There wasn't much idealism in the Communism of the Soviet Bloc. Here's an interesting excerpt from the Wikipedia article on Brecht: Die Lösung (The Solution) was Brecht's later commentary on the uprising of 17 June 1953 in East Germany:
The Secretary of the Writers Union Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee Stating that the people Had thrown away the confidence of the government And could win it back only By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier In that case for the government To dissolve the people And elect another? Brecht died in 1956, during the regime of the East German Stalinist Walter Ulbricht. -Joe- |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam des Soldaten Weib From: M.Ted Date: 10 Aug 08 - 10:05 PM Brecht wanted his language be offhanded, and colloquial, contemporary and direct--what we might call "Street Talk"---he wanted us to first see "the soldier's woman", or "the soldier's girl" as a common girl, receiving common, trivial gifts from a soldier, nothing special, just what any soldier might send, and he almost mocks the gifts, with sing-song couplets, like children's rhymes. I asked for the lyrics after hearing Klaus Kinsky sing this song--not a wistful song, like "Where have all the Flowers Gone" but like a children's riddle song, with death as the punch line. Thank you, Jim Carroll, for posting Marie Farrer, forget Marxism, forget his writings on "Epic Theater", that poem shows what Brecht is really about--I like the translation--others might want it to be more raw, but I think it shows what Brecht wanted us to see, and in the way that he wanted us to see it-- |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam des Soldaten Weib From: Susanne (skw) Date: 10 Aug 08 - 08:30 PM Unlike in the first song, in this case 'Weib' to me means simply 'woman' - it all depends on the relationship between the two nouns and the absence of a possessive pronoun/case. Although a 'Weib' could, in theory, be any age past childhood, like Dave I'd expect her to be of somewhat mature years or married, and therefore not a 'girl' any more. I'd have to look up the details - maybe the lyrics give more clues as to her age, or position in life. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam des Soldaten Weib From: GUEST,Dave MacKenzie Date: 10 Aug 08 - 05:35 PM I think that what confirms Brecht's intentions in this song, is that the last gift is a widow's veil. I'm not so sure about the "Ballade vom Weib und dem Soldaten", which John Willett transaltes as "The Song of the Girl and the Soldier", as the "girl" goes on to tell the soldier not to ignore the advice of those older than him. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam des Soldaten Weib From: Susanne (skw) Date: 10 Aug 08 - 03:57 PM Quite right - 'Weib' and particularly 'Weiber' has a derogatory meaning in today's German Umgangssprache, but as language is a multi-layered thing to us all most Germans (if they listen at all) will gather that Brecht is using deliberately archaic language and that 'Weib' in this song/poem means 'wife' and nothing else, without any derogatory connotations. (Considering Brecht's bohemian lifestyle, it might also stand for 'Lebensabschnittsgefährtin', of course ... :-)) |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam des Soldaten Weib From: Gulliver Date: 10 Aug 08 - 01:26 PM Well, I did say it was used in slang. My Wahrig dictionary describes it as "Umgangsprache" (which my Harraps defines as "colloquial speech"): Frau, Ehefrau. My female room-mate in Germany used it all the time for "women" (Weiber). Don |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam des Soldaten Weib From: michaelr Date: 09 Aug 08 - 01:48 AM Sorry to dissent, but "Frau" means both Woman and Wife, depending on context. "Weib" is the older word for Wife; it is not used for Woman except jokingly. Trust me, I know. |
Subject: Lyr Add: CONCERNING THE INFANTICIDE, MARIE FARRER From: Jim Carroll Date: 08 Aug 08 - 06:52 AM By far, for me, the most moving Brecht work is 'Concerning the Infanticide of Marie Farrer. It wasn't ever set to music as far as I know, but it was used regularly in some of our feature evenings in The Singers Club (and elsewhere in London). It was usually placed between the adult version of the ballad, The Cruel Mother and the children's version, Old Woman in The Wood (Weela-Weela-Wila). I've seen members of the audience in tears after the reading. This is MacColl's re-write of the translation: CONCERNING THE INFANTICIDE, MARIE FARRER by Bertolt Brecht Marie Farrer, born in April, No marks, a minor, rachitic, both parents dead, Allegedly up to now without police record, Committed infanticide, it is said, As follows: in her second month, she says, With the aid of a barmaid, she did her best To get rid of her child with two douches, Allegedly painful but without success. But you, I beg you, check your wrath and scorn, For man needs help from every creature born. She then paid out, she says, what was agreed And continued to lace herself up tight. She also drank liquor with pepper mixed in it Which purged her but did not cure her plight. Her body distressed her as she washed the dishes, It was swollen now quite visibly. She herself says, for she was still a child, She prayed to Mary most earnestly. But you, I beg you, check your wrath and scorn, For man needs help from every creature born. Her prayers, it seemed, helped her not at all. She longed for help. Her trouble made her falter and faint at early Mass. Often drops of sweat Broke out in anguish as she knelt at the altar. Yet until her time came upon her She still kept secret her condition. For no one would believe such a thing could happen, That she, so unenticing, had yielded to temptation. But you, I beg you, check your wrath and scorn, For man needs help from every creature born. And, on that day, she says, when it was dawn, As she washed the stairs, it seemed a nail Was driven into her belly. She was wrung with pain. But still she secretly endured her travail. All day long while hanging out the laundry, She wracked her brains until she got it through her head She had to bear the child, and her heart was heavy. But you, I beg you, check your wrath and scorn, It was very late when she went to bed. She was sent for again as soon as she lay down. Snow had fallen and she had to go downstairs. It went on till eleven. It was a long day. Only at night did she have time to bear. And so, she says, she gave birth to a son. The son she bore was just like all the others. She was unlike the others but for this There is no reason to despise this mother, You to, I beg you, check your wrath and scorn, For man needs help from every creature born. With her last strength, she says, because Her room had now grown icy cold, she then Dragged herself to the latrine and there Gave birth as best she could (not knowing when) But toward morning. She says she was already Quite distracted and could barely hold The child for snow came into the latrine And her fingers were half numb with cold. But you, I beg you, check your wrath and scorn, For man needs help from every creature born. Between the latrine and her room, she says, Not earlier, the child began to cry until It drove her mad so that, she says, She did not cease to beat it with her fists Blindly for some time till it was still. And then she took the body to her bed And kept it with her there all through the night. When morning came she hid it in the shed. But you, I beg you, check your wrath and scorn, For man needs help from every creature born. Marie Farrer, born in April, An unmarried mother, convicted, died in The Meissen penitentiary. She brings home to you all men's sin. You, who bear pleasantly between clean sheets And give the name "blessed" to your womb's weight, Must not damn the weakness of the outcast, For her sin was black but her pain was great. Therefore, I beg you, check your wrath and scorn, For man needs help from every creature born. Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam des Soldaten Weib From: GUEST,Gulliver Date: 07 Aug 08 - 03:34 PM "Weib" means "woman", and it's still used in slang and everyday speech (and by women, at that). I wouldn't actually say it's derogatory (though it can easily be used for that purpose), just what we used to call "common". Don |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam des Soldaten Weib From: Joe Offer Date: 07 Aug 08 - 01:55 PM Well, it's not only Cooper who translated it "wife" - It's "The Wife of the Soldier" in the Steeleye Span version. I think Brecht commonly uses archaic German words that have taken on a meaning of ill repute - kind of a double-entendre, I think. Yes, "wife" is a legitimate translation, but there is a second meaning not-so-subtly hidden in the text. -Joe- |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam des Soldaten Weib From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 07 Aug 08 - 12:02 PM A word of caution here. Just because 'Weib' resembles the English 'wife' doesn't mean that it's the same word. In my German classes I learned that 'Weib' is now a derogatory word -- not as strong, perhaps, as 'bitch,' but nonetheless not a word to be used by the amateur. Adrienne Cooper does a disservice when she translates 'Weib' as 'wife.' The word for wife is 'Frau.' |
Subject: ADD: Song of the Nazi Soldier's Wife (Brecht) From: Joe Offer Date: 07 Aug 08 - 12:58 AM Song of the Nazi Soldier's Wife (Bertolt Brecht and Kurt Weill) What was sent to the soldier's wife from that ancient capital Prague? From Prague he sent her the high heel shoes, Hoping she could use handsome high heel shoes. That was what he sent her from Prague. And what was sent to the soldier's wife, from Oslo out on the sound? From Oslo he sent her the brand new fur. Best of luck to her in her brand new fur, Sent from Oslo out on the sound. And what was sent to the soldier's wife from wealthy Amsterdam From Amsterdam he sent her the hat. She looked sweet in that Such a nice Dutch hat, that he sent from Amsterdam. And what was sent to the soldier's wife from Paris, the city of lights? From Paris he sent her a fine silk dress, To her neighbor's distress. "Why should she get a dress, like the one he sent her from Paris?" And what was sent to the soldier's wife from the desert around Tobruk? From Tobruk he sent her a necklace to wear, A copper necklace that made her feel reckless, That was what he sent from Tobruk. And what was sent to the soldier's wife from exotic Bucharest? From Bucharest he sent her the blouse. How it brightened the house, That Roumanian blouse that he sent from Bucharest. And what was sent to the soldier's wife from Russia so far sway? From Russia they sent her a long black veil For a widow so pale, a delicate black veil From Russia so far away, from Russia so far away. translation by Adrienne Cooper from the CD booklet from the album Ghetto Tango: Wartime Yiddish Theater, by Adrienne Cooper and Zalmen Mlotek notes:
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Subject: Lyr Add: Ballad of the Nazi Soldier's Wife(Brecht From: Joe Offer Date: 07 Aug 08 - 12:39 AM I came across this powerful song this evening, and I thought it should be posted. Little did I know that it has already been posted - but this version is a little longer, so I'll include it also. Ballad of the Nazi Soldier's Wife Und was bekam des Soldaten Weib? lyrics by Bertolt Brecht, music by Kurt Weill Und was bekam des Soldaten Weib Aus der alten Hauptstadt Prag? Aus Prag bekam sie die Stöckelschuh. Einen Gruß und dazu die Stöckelschuh Das bekam sie aus der Stadt Prag. Und was bekam des Soldaten Weib Aus Warschau am Weichselstrand? Aus Warschau bekam sie das leinene Hemd So bunt und so fremd, ein polnisches Hemd! Das bekam sie vom Weichselstrand. Und was bekam des Soldaten Weib Aus Oslo über dem Sund? Aus Oslo bekam sie das Kräglein aus Pelz. Hoffentlich gefällt's, das Kräglein aus Pelz! Das bekam sie aus Oslo am Sund. Und was bekam des Soldaten Weib Aus dem reichen Rotterdam? Aus Rotterdam bekam sie den Hut. Und er steht ihr gut, der holländische Hut. Den bekam sie aus Rotterdam. Und was bekam des Soldaten Weib Aus Brüssel im belgischen Land? Aus Brüssel bekam sie die seltenen Spitzen. Ach, das zu besitzen, so seltene Spitzen! Sie bekam sie aus belgischem Land. Und was bekam des Soldaten Weib Aus der Lichterstadt Paris? Aus Paris bekam sie das seidene Kleid. Zu der Nachbarin Neid das seidene Kleid Das bekam sie aus Paris. Und was bekam des Soldaten Weib Aus dem libyschen Tripolis? Aus Tripolis bekam sie das Kettchen. Das Amulettchen am kupfernen Kettchen Das bekam sie aus Tripolis. Und was bekam des Soldaten Weib Aus dem weiten Russenland? Aus Rußland bekam sie den Witwenschleier. Zu der Totenfeier den Witwenschleier Das bekam sie aus Rußland. Bertolt Brecht Lyrics copy-pasted form http://www.maennerrat.de/und-was-bekam-des-soldaten-weib.htm Sound clip here (click) |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam das Soldaten Weib From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 08 May 04 - 03:08 PM I looked as well, and on Google, but the only useful information I found on 'Anthem...' was that it was on an Odetta cd. Ted, you looked- that is the point I was trying to get across. Too many don't. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam das Soldaten Weib From: M.Ted Date: 08 May 04 - 02:06 AM Thank you, Susan, for your fast response-- I remembered there having been a thread, Q, and actually did a couple of searches, including the advanced search on all the terms in the title. I came up with nothing,as happens from time to time, and only posted my request then--if it is superfluous, I am sorry. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam das Soldaten Weib From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 07 May 04 - 09:08 PM Isn't the "Anthem..." a South African song? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam das Soldaten Weib From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 07 May 04 - 08:52 PM No. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam das Soldaten Weib From: Richard Bridge Date: 07 May 04 - 08:32 PM Is this related to "Anthem of the rainbow"? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam das Soldaten Weib From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 07 May 04 - 08:32 PM We are getting very lazy. Wolfgang had already posted the song in thread 1498. Und was bekam Just a few minutes earlier I accused Jeff the Quack of sloth and disrespect for Mudcat for not checking pre-existing threads. Now we have another superfluous thread. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam das Soldaten Weib From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 07 May 04 - 08:23 PM Order of verses in one website: Und was bekam des Soldaten Weib? Prag Warschau Oslo Rotterdam Brussel Paris Tripolis Russland (Bukarest verse posted above is missing in the one linked here) Thread title error, das corrected by Susan A-R to des. Warsaw (Warschau): Und was bekam des Soldaten Weib Aus Warschau am Weichselstrand? Aus Warschau bekam sie das leinene Hemd So bunt und so fremd, ein polnisches Hemd! Das bekam sie vom Weichelstrand. Rotterdam: Substitute for Amsterdam in the verse above (or as you please). Tripoli (Tripolis): Und was bekam des Soldaten Weib Aus dem libyschen Tripolis? Aus Tripolis bekam sie das Kettchen Das Amulettchen am kupfer Kettchen Das bekam sie aus Tripolis. I have the Lotte Lenya recording somewhere. I will try to find it. |
Subject: Lyr Add: UND WAS BEKAM DES SOLDATEN WEIB From: Susan A-R Date: 07 May 04 - 07:05 PM I knew that Eisler left some out. Here are three more verses. They fill in as verses 2, 3 and 6 Und was bekam des Soldaten Weib Aus Brussel im Belgischen Land? Aus Brussel bekam sie die seltenen Spitzen, Ach, das zu besitzen die Belgischen Spitzen die bekam sie aus Belgischem Land Und was bekam des Soldaten Weib aus Oslo uber dem Sund? Aus Oslo bekam sie das Kraglein aus Pelz Hofentlich ge fallt's das Kraglein aus Pelz Das bekam sie aus Oslo am Sund Und was bekam des Soldaten Weib Aus dem sudlichen Bukarest Aus Bukarest bekam sie das Hemd So bunt und so fremd, Das Rumanische Hemd Das bekam sie aus Bukarest Also, in the Weill rendition, it's Russenland, which may or may not fit with the melody you are using. Susan |
Subject: Lyr Add: UND WAS BEKAM DES SOLDATEN WEIB From: Susan A-R Date: 07 May 04 - 06:33 PM Here you go This is from the Brecht/Eisler song book. It seems to me that there are other verses, but I'm not sure. I'll check up on the Weil rendition in case. Also, I'm not hot at foreign punctuation on the computer, so sorry about the missing ..s Und was bekam des Soldaten Weib aus der alten Haupt-stadt Prag Aus Prag bekam sie die Stockel-shuh Einen Gruss und dazu Die Stockel-schue das bekam sie aus der Haupt-stadt Prag Und was bekam des Soldaten Weib aus dem reichen Amsterdam? Aus Amsterdam bekam sie den Hut Und er steht ir gut, der Hollandische Hut Den bekam sie aus Amsterdam. Und was bekam des Soldaten Weib Aus der Lichterstadt paris? Aus Paris bekam sie das seidene Kleid Zu der Nachbarin Neid das seidene Kleid Das Bekam sie aus Paris Und was bekam des Soldaten Weib aus dem weiten Russland? Aus Russland bekam sie den Witwen scheier aur Toten veier den Witwen scheier das bekam sie aus Russland |
Subject: Lyr Req: Und Was Bekam das Soldaten Weib From: M.Ted Date: 07 May 04 - 01:44 PM If any one has the German words, I would most appreciate it-- |
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