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capos

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breezy 08 May 04 - 11:21 AM
Mark Clark 08 May 04 - 12:34 PM
breezy 08 May 04 - 12:39 PM
Mark Clark 08 May 04 - 01:01 PM
Don Firth 08 May 04 - 01:08 PM
breezy 08 May 04 - 01:08 PM
Once Famous 08 May 04 - 01:12 PM
breezy 08 May 04 - 01:17 PM
Don Firth 08 May 04 - 01:33 PM
breezy 08 May 04 - 01:47 PM
Amos 08 May 04 - 01:59 PM
Herga Kitty 08 May 04 - 02:12 PM
Mooh 08 May 04 - 02:32 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 May 04 - 02:34 PM
Strollin' Johnny 08 May 04 - 03:18 PM
mooman 08 May 04 - 03:37 PM
Mark Clark 08 May 04 - 04:37 PM
Richard Bridge 08 May 04 - 05:48 PM
catspaw49 08 May 04 - 06:02 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 May 04 - 06:06 PM
GUEST,Proulx You 08 May 04 - 06:34 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 May 04 - 07:02 PM
breezy 08 May 04 - 07:59 PM
breezy 09 May 04 - 03:47 AM
Richard Bridge 09 May 04 - 07:17 AM
Strollin' Johnny 09 May 04 - 01:47 PM
Spot 09 May 04 - 02:53 PM
Mark Clark 09 May 04 - 04:47 PM
Lanfranc 09 May 04 - 06:52 PM
breezy 09 May 04 - 07:00 PM
Once Famous 09 May 04 - 10:32 PM
Richard Bridge 10 May 04 - 03:26 AM
GUEST,GLoux 10 May 04 - 02:44 PM
McGrath of Harlow 10 May 04 - 03:46 PM
Strollin' Johnny 11 May 04 - 11:17 AM
Richard Bridge 11 May 04 - 08:31 PM
Cluin 11 May 04 - 11:58 PM
DonMeixner 12 May 04 - 12:42 AM
Strollin' Johnny 12 May 04 - 08:29 AM
McGrath of Harlow 12 May 04 - 09:11 AM
breezy 12 May 04 - 03:27 PM
McGrath of Harlow 12 May 04 - 04:11 PM
Strollin' Johnny 13 May 04 - 07:57 AM
breezy 13 May 04 - 08:06 AM
Strollin' Johnny 13 May 04 - 08:17 AM
dick greenhaus 13 May 04 - 01:56 PM
Cllr 13 May 04 - 02:10 PM
Mooh 13 May 04 - 11:58 PM
Cluin 14 May 04 - 12:22 AM
GUEST,spikeis 14 May 04 - 04:30 AM
breezy 14 May 04 - 04:34 AM
C-flat 14 May 04 - 04:41 AM
Don Firth 14 May 04 - 04:47 PM
C-flat 14 May 04 - 05:15 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 May 04 - 07:57 PM
Strollin' Johnny 15 May 04 - 03:14 AM
Strollin' Johnny 15 May 04 - 03:21 AM
matai 15 May 04 - 03:45 AM
Strollin' Johnny 15 May 04 - 05:31 AM
GUEST,John Hardly 15 May 04 - 07:56 AM
Strollin' Johnny 15 May 04 - 04:35 PM
breezy 15 May 04 - 04:45 PM
Strollin' Johnny 15 May 04 - 04:55 PM
breezy 15 May 04 - 06:53 PM
Cap't Bob 15 May 04 - 10:39 PM
Strollin' Johnny 16 May 04 - 01:30 AM
matai 16 May 04 - 06:03 AM
Spot 16 May 04 - 06:20 AM
s&r 16 May 04 - 09:09 AM
Don Firth 16 May 04 - 12:35 PM
Strollin' Johnny 16 May 04 - 04:39 PM
GUEST,Dodgyfolk 16 May 04 - 06:01 PM
breezy 16 May 04 - 06:51 PM
Steve in Idaho 17 May 04 - 11:43 AM
Don Firth 17 May 04 - 12:09 PM
C-flat 16 Oct 04 - 12:06 PM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Oct 04 - 01:34 PM
breezy 16 Oct 04 - 02:16 PM
breezy 16 Oct 04 - 02:17 PM
breezy 16 Oct 04 - 02:20 PM
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GUEST,G7th 30 Oct 04 - 01:25 PM
breezy 30 Oct 04 - 01:39 PM
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breezy 30 Oct 04 - 01:57 PM
chris nightbird childs 30 Oct 04 - 02:02 PM
G7th 31 Oct 04 - 07:36 AM
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Subject: capos
From: breezy
Date: 08 May 04 - 11:21 AM

trying out the G 7 starting today £25 any one else had one or are they very new?

appears to allow space behind on higher frets thus easing accessability

also a Kyser

been using the shubb for 4/5 years

comment invited.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Mark Clark
Date: 08 May 04 - 12:34 PM

I just looked through all the capos listed at MusiciansFriend.com and could find no capo called a G 7. If it's a Kyser, I'd recommend against it. I think all Kyser capos are, as jOhn from Hull might say, rubbish. Kyser relys on the two main features that cause capos to be rubbish, one is a spring mechanism that doesn't let the player control the pressure on the strings and the other is any part that sticks out from the side of the neck restricting hand position. The Kyser capos have one other bad feature… they are really ugly.

My advice is stick with the Shubb or, if you really just have to have a new capo, buy something on the order of the John Pearse Ol' Reliable™. I think there are even smaller, lighter capos made on the order of this one—can't remember the company—but I think they are handmade and quite dear. Good though.

      - Mark


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 08 May 04 - 12:39 PM

perhaps this G7 is at the cutting edge so I just wonder if I'll be the 1st to try it.

you squeeze em on and theres a litle lever to release.

prtty nifty, I'll be interested in the longevity of the mechanicals.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Mark Clark
Date: 08 May 04 - 01:01 PM

Can you post a link to any image or disctiption of this G7 capo? It would help if I had some idea of what you're looking at.

      - Mark


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 May 04 - 01:08 PM

No idea of what a G 7 capo is, but there are capos 'til hell won't have it HERE.

I've been using a Shubb lately, but my real favorite is probably one of the oldest style capos made, the çejilla (pronounced "suh-HEE-yuh," the first ones shown on this web site), made of wood, often ebony, with a small peg attached to a nylon string (usually a piece of old 3rd string). Put the body of the çejilla behind the fret of your choice, stick the peg in the hole on top, and wind it down as tight as you need it to be. Simple, neat, traditional. But they probably work well only on nylon-string (classic and flamenco) guitars. I was introduced to this kind of capo when I took some flamenco guitar lessons in 1962.

With the çejilla, it's a good idea to glue a strip of felt or leather to the bottom, with enough to wrap around the back of the guitar neck, otherwise, over a period of time, the string can mar the finish.

These days they're kind of expensive compared to other capos, but once you've seen one (where the holes are bored for attaching the string, for example), they're easy enough to make.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 08 May 04 - 01:08 PM

www.G7th.COM

will try it myself


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Once Famous
Date: 08 May 04 - 01:12 PM

contrary to what Mark Clark says, and as a musician for 40 years, the Kyser quick change capo is the finest I have ever used and the Shubb is actually double rubbish. It is the most reliable capo used and according to people I have talked to at Elderly Instruments, their largest seller and most popular.

It is definately made for quick changes,and has never been in my way.whether I am fingerpicking or doing a banjo killing bluegrass strum.

I own five vintage acoustic guitars which obviously includes Martins and Gibsbosn and there is Kyser quick change in beautiful black color in ach case, not to mention a banjo version in my banjo's case. That, and a Shubb 5th string capo get my banjo ready to play in any key as quick as possible.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 08 May 04 - 01:17 PM

well have you seen it yet?

Don, Martin be prepared.

I'll use it tonight and see if I agree with the luminaries listed on their web site


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 May 04 - 01:33 PM

I've had no problems with the Shubb and most of the people I know use them. Dead simple, easy to use, small enough so it doesn't get in the way, and it works. After seeing a few Kysers on "Austin City Limits," I bought one, used it for awhile, and now it's laying in a desk drawer. I didn't like it. I can crack walnuts with my left hand, but I still found the spring on the Kyser so ridiculously strong that the idea that it's "quick-change" sort of goes out the window. Also, it makes the guitar neck look like its grown a set of antlers. If it works for MG, then good. But to others, I would say caveat emptor. Try one out before you buy it.

The G7th looks interesting. Compact and neat. Anyplace in the U.S. sell them?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 08 May 04 - 01:47 PM

I found the shubb when used on the 7th fret or higher gets in the way where as this g7 does not, or is that because I use it upside down? Also you can scratch the back of the guitar neck with nails when raising the lever.

My guitar - Brook Tamar -has a thinish neck and the shubb cannot be tightened any more.

With the G7th you apply the pressure you require.

The Kyser is a good exercise for grip strength so is well worth having one to retain muscular strength in the wrist and can be moved with one hand, the G7th requires both hands for it to be moved.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Amos
Date: 08 May 04 - 01:59 PM

I've found the Kyser to be easy to move quickly. Occasionally some microtuning needs to be done.

This one looks aesthetic. Love to see it in action.

A

http://www.g7th.com/info.htm#


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 08 May 04 - 02:12 PM

Breezy

You could try emulating MCP and playing without a capo....

Kitty


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Mooh
Date: 08 May 04 - 02:32 PM

We've discussed capos here much too much, but I'm addicted and can't stop.

Haven't tried the G7 but noticed it advertised somewhere. Been a loyal Shubb user for years and only use the horrendously non-adjustable Kysers for partial capoing virtual tuning stuff cause they're easy to cut up.

Visited a (new to me) suppier this morning and he showed me a web presence for the new Dan Crary capo. Looks like a deluxe Paige/Pearse/Golden Gate/Elliot sort of thing. Not cheap. There are a few high end capos in the bluegrass community.

Mooh.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 May 04 - 02:34 PM

Well, I find myself agreeing with Martin Gibson for once!

Kysers are fine for me - they are the only capo I've come across where you can easily and quickly move them around in the middle of a tune without putting yourself out of tune. (And the reason that is handy is, when you're in a session set, and there's too many guitarists playing in the same space, capoing up can be a good idea.)

As for the "part that sticks out from the side of the neck restricting hand position", changing the capo round can normally solve that one.

But that G7 looks pretty. Tell us how well it works, breezy. But £25! Maybe the price will come down...


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 08 May 04 - 03:18 PM

Never seen one, let alone tried one, but I see from the website that Noel Sheehan's involved with the design and manufacturing company. Noel runs an excellent musical instrument and equipment business in Leicester and organises Guitar Avalon, and because of his expertise I'm inclined to believe the capo will be a good piece of kit.

I've been a Shubb devotee for years but I'm tempted to splash out a few drinking vouchers and try one.

Let us know how it goes Breezy?

Johnny :0)


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Subject: RE: capos
From: mooman
Date: 08 May 04 - 03:37 PM

I'm not keen on the Kyser or spring loaded Dunlop as the springs are rather stiff and allow no adjustment of pressure on the strings, sometimes putting the tuning out. I do, however, use the latter if accompanying Irish music in DADGAD for quick key changes. I haven't seen or tried the G7 yet.

My favourites are the Victor capo (now distributed by Dunlop) which I use on my resonator and jazz guitars and the Bird of Paradise capo which I use on my Lakewood (primarily fingerstyle) which has a custom wide fretboard. I also like the Paige design and use one of these on my octave mandolin. All the above are precisely adjustable to give any desired string pressure. The BoP also works very well on my classical.

Hope this is of some use.

Peace

moo


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Mark Clark
Date: 08 May 04 - 04:37 PM

Don, I liked the çejilla. I actually made one of those many years ago when I owned a quality flemenco guitar1 and wanted to have an authentic capo to go with it. I liked it very much though I never made one for a steel stringed instrument. I figured it wouldn't be strong enough. I also liked the Sterner Eccentric Capo at the bottom of the page you linked. This one looks like a real improvement. I can understand Martin Gibson liking the Kyser, they look flashy and since he's only been a musician for 40 years, he probably lacks the experience needed to percieve its many flaws. <g>

The G7 capo actually looks pretty interesting. It's pretty small and the pressure can be controled. It might be worth a try. I'll be interested in breezy's impression after using it for a while.

The Dan Crary model that Mooh referenced looks nice too. I'm not sure I'd go the $65 USD for it but one never knows.

      - Mark

__________________
1. About the same time you were taking flemenco guitar lessons.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 May 04 - 05:48 PM

I look forward to hearing of real experiences: I find it hard to conceive that it can really have zero backlash, and the slightest backlash is going to make it ineffective.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 May 04 - 06:02 PM

I dunno' why I opened this one, but I'm glad I did! This is the first interesting and new capo thread we've had in a coon's age!!!!!

Hey mooman......I like the Bird as well except it tends to get in the way of my poor left hand position for some reason. If I was better, maybe it wouldn't!!! It shouldn't when you look at it, but it seems to for me. The thing works really well though on a wide variety of necks.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: capos
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 May 04 - 06:06 PM

"backlash" - a new term for me in this context. Does it mean putting it out of tune, Richard?


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Subject: RE: capos
From: GUEST,Proulx You
Date: 08 May 04 - 06:34 PM

This is the best one I've ever used.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 May 04 - 07:02 PM

But you couldn't move it around during a tune, I'd say.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 08 May 04 - 07:59 PM

it works very well.

its consigned the shubb to retirement for now

the G7 holds down all the strings equally especially the top and bottom as the fret board is slighty curved and you the user determine the pressure.

didnt consider opening the kyser tonight.

longevity is the next question as early shubbs fell apart as the rivets gave way and the arms went out of line and the screw rubber on one went walkies.My recent shubb has stood upwell but is too short and does not allow for the fret -board curve.


can capo on the 9th fret and play comfortably and as I tune this Brook model 4 frets high by using 009 - 45 guage strings I can play in a higher range and she sings sweetly sounding more like a mandolin.

this is also much aided by fred kelly speed picks and nickel silver finger picks shaped for clean bright picking.

Go for it Strollin man


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 09 May 04 - 03:47 AM

the Elliot looks efficient,though I would prefer a flat head nut to tighten it into position, round nuts are difficult to turn.
As they are individually hand/machine crafted they are of course fairly expensive.
Design wise is traditional
Wouldnt mind one but I think it not as practical to use as the G7th


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 May 04 - 07:17 AM

"backlash" is the freedom of movement in a mechanism. In this case, you squeeze the capo on, and because nothing ever fits perfectly, when you let go, the capo relaxes its grip just a little bit. COmpare it to a handbrake on a car if you like (yes, I know the mechanisms are different).

I quite like the Kyser pro-am (the cheap one) which does need two hands, but you squeeze it on, and then tighten up the thumbscrew just enough to hold it there (which also takes out the backlash).


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 09 May 04 - 01:47 PM

I'll give it a go Breezy, won't cost any more than a week's fags would if I was a smoker!

I find my Shubbs knock the 1st and 6th out of tune on both my Martin and my Lowden no matter what tension I set the screw at (the Lowden's the worse of the two). Hopefully the G7th will solve that, and I won't need to use two capos when I'm using both guitars.

Johnny :0)


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Spot
Date: 09 May 04 - 02:53 PM

Hello everybody...had G7 capo for a couple of weeks now...I cant fault it yet...!! Smooth, slick, precise, doesnt seem to alter intonation drastically...I reckon they 're pretty good..!!! Will come back if any probs....
Regards to all....Spot


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Mark Clark
Date: 09 May 04 - 04:47 PM

breezy, The round screw heads are actually better. As you point out, the flat ones give you more leverage but if you use the screw to apply tension on the capo, you'll wear it out pretty fast. Much better to apply the tension by pressing down with your picking hand and just use the screw to take up the slack. With the round screw head, you can easily take up the slack just by running a finger along it's knurled edge; much faster than turning a flat thumb screw one turn at a time.

      - Mark


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Lanfranc
Date: 09 May 04 - 06:52 PM

The G7 seems to have a lot in common with the Bird of Paradise that I have been using for a couple of years now, along with a couple of Shubbs.

I still haven't found anything better than a Heriba Capo for 12-strings.

I'll see if Breezy will let me borrow his G7 next time we meet!

La lutte continua!

Alan


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 09 May 04 - 07:00 PM

only if you you quit fagging it i.e. smoking


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 May 04 - 10:32 PM

McGrath, it seems like more and more ARE finding that they agree with me on many things I post, or they get freaked out. No middle ground it seems.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 May 04 - 03:26 AM

Rick Fielding's customary explanations of why capos put guitars out of tune were correct. If MG is using his Kyers accordingly he will not have major tuning probs (whatever the "fine" guitars in point). It would be the same if he used Shubbs or anything else - so long as he followed Fielding rules. I find this to be true on two Hagstroms, a Martin, and a Mugen (another name for Daion or Yamaki), as well as my camping guitar (a Morris) and nearly true for a Framus 12-string (but the pressure differentials between the strings in the octave pairs still has some effect). I have just introduced a friend to the physical truth (You canna change the laws of physics, Jim) and now he sees it to be true on his two Taylors. It worked on a Seagull and a Garrison we had through the house recently as well.

I have only ever had one capo break in use: it was a Kyser. The only troubles I have seen with Shubbs are suffered by people who overtighten them or turn the screw while the capo is on.

But I'd still like to try one of these G7s and see how it stood up to wear. Also, if (or once, as wear develops) there is any backlash, it will make the Fielding method much harder to use.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: GUEST,GLoux
Date: 10 May 04 - 02:44 PM

Did you know that there is a capo museum ?

-Greg


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Subject: RE: capos
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 May 04 - 03:46 PM

Rick Fielding's customary explanations of why capos put guitars out of tune were correct.

Give us a link please.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 11 May 04 - 11:17 AM

There was a long-ish post by Rick maybe a couple of years ago about the best way to capo-up. You Mudcat experts will probably find it easier than me. I do it the way Rick said and it does work.
Johnny :0)


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 May 04 - 08:31 PM

Hvae done some of the search.

Bored now: example

Subject: RE: Tuners Revisited
From: Rick Fielding - PM
Date: 08 Apr 01 - 04:36 PM

Hey Clinton, do you remember Bourne and MacLeod? When things got really noisy, MacLeod (the tiny Scottish piper and tough guy) would pull out a .45 (with blanks thank god) and shoot it off a couple of times. Geez, did it get quiet fast!
No need to tune after you put your capo on, if you simply place it right next to the fret. It won't stretch the strings that way. The best capos for keeping in perfect tune are Shubbs and Dunlop C clamps. Keysers are the simplest to use, but because you can't adjust the tension, are a bit iffy for keepiing the guitar in tune. Another trick that is INCREDIBLY useful (if you care about perfect tuning) is to cut two tiny "V" shapes in the rubber, under the two bass strings. This REALLY WORKS! I've been doing on capos for 12 strings for twenty five years, but it works great on Kaysers (if I keep spelling it differently eventually I'll get it right), and with the grooves, the capo doesn't have to be as close to the fret.

Rick


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Cluin
Date: 11 May 04 - 11:58 PM

Yep, RF was right on with his suggestion. (Damn, I miss him around here)

I use a Shubb for studio work because of the adjustment ability, but a Kyser most of the rest of the time because of the convenience. Most of the problems with throwing the guitar out of tune can be worked out with a good set-up; obviously a high action will compound things. I might have to tweak my low E and B strings a bit sometimes when they get a bit older, but it's no great hardship. When not in use, it's clamped on the headstock--where it helps with the sustain, don'tchaknow?   ;)   

I've never found the Kyser to get in the way at all and I quite like the looks of it. I had the spring blow in my first one after a few years, but I have 2 more and they are holding up well. They get a LOT of use, sometimes up to the 8th or 9th fret.

The Shubb is the one I use the few times I use a capo on my mandolin. Yeah, I do use one there sometimes, when the song is in Eb, or Ab or F#....


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Subject: RE: capos
From: DonMeixner
Date: 12 May 04 - 12:42 AM

I have this beautifully machined brass capo the works off a worm gear. It draws the strings in very smooth and even and it desn't knock any part of it out of tune. It is slow to use but very effective. My only big complaint is that it does get in the way of the left hand a tiny bit.

Don


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 12 May 04 - 08:29 AM

My shiny new G7th Capo arrived from Sheehan's this morning. I gave it a five-minute try at lunchtime on my Martin and my Lowden and it seems excellent on both. Time and lots of playing will be the final judge!
Johnny :0)


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Subject: RE: capos
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 May 04 - 09:11 AM

I find I've been doing it Rick's way already, so that explains why I don't seem to put the guitar out of tune. As for cutting the grooves in a Kyser - I've found that the grooves just happen naturally; you just have to break the capo in, by leaving it on the strings when you put the guitar away while it's new.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 12 May 04 - 03:27 PM

Last night did 2 sets and the G7th was O K.
Today I tried the G7th inverted for 3 hours and it was even more effective.

When used this way up it can also be manoeuvred with one hand.

I prefer it to the shubb already.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 May 04 - 04:11 PM

It's a silly name though - type "G7 + capo" into Google, a search engine, and you get over 200 results, all about G7 chords.

Type in G7th of course, and you get it first time. But I bet they'll lose a lot of sales they'd have otherwise got through that.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 13 May 04 - 07:57 AM

Tried my G7th last night and early opinion is that it's excellent. Simple to operate, not too bulky, ho huge ugly 'horns' sticking up making it look like an outsize bulldog clip, nothing to adjust, just squeeze it on to the strings. My only worry is that the mechanism may wear in time and make it difficult to get the right pressure, but that's something that only time will prove.
Johnny :0)


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 13 May 04 - 08:06 AM

welcome to the club, I agree time will tell.

do you use it hinge on top or under, Ive gone over the top, as usual.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 13 May 04 - 08:17 AM

Hinge on top. Other way up it gets in my way (same with the Shubb).


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Subject: RE: capos
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 13 May 04 - 01:56 PM

Just to toss a new hat into the ring, I like the Wilkerson capo. The late Jonathan Eberhard introduced me to it a dozen years or so ago, and I've liked it evers since. Lightweight (aluminum construction), narrow, one-hand operation, easily replaceable contact surface. And you can still get one for under nine bucks. For banjo and narrow(not classical) necked guitars.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Cllr
Date: 13 May 04 - 02:10 PM

I knew an artist who lost his just before a gig, it was terrible. He was completely in-capo-ble the entire evening. cllr


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Mooh
Date: 13 May 04 - 11:58 PM

There's a retired gentleman down the road who hand makes capos one by one in his garage and sells them in select shops around Canada. Charlie Johnson capos come in brass, aluminum, and in a couple of configurations. For a look-see, they are in the capo museum mentioned earlier in the thread.

Once in a while I'll use one he made special for me out of brass and aluminum which I swear sounds better than his other models on one of my guitars especially. Not as quick as my favoured Shubb, but for friendly support and solidarity with a good guy, there's nothing like using his capo! When we discovered each other in a music store, we couldn't help but be friends!

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Cluin
Date: 14 May 04 - 12:22 AM

So how do you pronounce it?

Most everybody I know says CAY-poh (long A), but I knew one guy, a former teacher, who called it a CAH-poh (short A).


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Subject: RE: capos
From: GUEST,spikeis
Date: 14 May 04 - 04:30 AM

should be pronounced with a short a, as its from the italian capotastro!


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 14 May 04 - 04:34 AM

K po in hertfordshire

'that thing you stick on the neck of the guitar'
if your from anywhere else


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Subject: RE: capos
From: C-flat
Date: 14 May 04 - 04:41 AM

I'm interested enough from the comments here to give the G7th a try. I have used the Schubb and the Kyser before and tend to favour the Kyser for it's speed and ease of use but I've always had to be careful of the tunings when gigging with them. The Schubb is an excellent capo but a bit fiddly when you're in a hurry.
The G7th sounds just the thing!

Curiously Cluin, I've never met anyone who calls them "CAY-pohs'".
Surely it's "CAH-po" from capodestra?
It could be worse, how many pronunciations of "Cejilla" (flamenco players'capo) would we have?! :-)

C-flat.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 May 04 - 04:47 PM

Correction (picky, picky, picky):   

Capotasto
(no "r"), pronounced "KAH-poh-TAH-stoh" ("KAH-poh" for short). It's an Italian word. It means literally "head note," and at one time it referred to the nut of a lute, vihuela, guitar, or other similar instrument. Then along came the device that allowed the musician, in effect, to move the position of the nut. "Capotasto" then referred to the what might be considered the effective position of the nut. Later, it referred to the gizmo itself (as now).

The extraneous "r" (as in "capodastro") comes from a corruption I've seen in a few guitar manuals, and it undoubtedly comes from a mis-hearing of the word, usually spelled "capo de astro" (a mixture of Italian and Latin) which means "head of star," which makes no sense at all.

Cejilla, pronounced "say-HEE-yah." The Spanish word for Capo. "Ceja" means "eyebrow." The traditional wooden cejilla has a curved top, resembling an eyebrow, to accommodate the wooden tightening peg.

I'm a bit of a word-freak. Etymology, which includes word origins, has been a long-time interest of mine. Your mileage may vary.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: capos
From: C-flat
Date: 14 May 04 - 05:15 PM

Don you're a mine of information! Thanks for putting me wise.
C-flat.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 May 04 - 07:57 PM

Normal English spelling conventions would mean you'd expect to pronounce it with a long a, as in paper or capon. My impressioin is that people use both pronunciations fairly indifferently.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 15 May 04 - 03:14 AM

English pronunciation - surely the rule to be followed is (and I apologise ahead for my lack of skills as an educator, but here goes):-

Cape - pronounced 'kayp', the 'a' lengthened, determined by the 'e'.
Cap - Pronounced 'Kap', short 'a', no 'e' to lengthen the sound of the 'a'
Capo - No 'e', therefore short 'a' = Kapo, not 'kaypo'

QED?

However, it's not an English word. Whether it's Spanish or Italian, natives of both countries would pronounce it with the short 'a'. I think.

Johnny :0)


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 15 May 04 - 03:21 AM

And anyway, I tried my shiny new G7th Capo (short 'a') out in the Real World last neet and it was excellent. Very simple to use, no farting around turning little screws, no huge horny handles poking me eye out, no herculean World-War-Three-type springs knocking me 'E's out of tune. My only problem was keeping an eye on it to make sure no-one (noone, no one???) pinched it. And I had a problem staying sober, but that's another story.

Nice one Breezy, I'm converted!

Johnny :0)


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Subject: RE: capos
From: matai
Date: 15 May 04 - 03:45 AM

This may sound like a red herring in this thread so far but has anyone tried just using their first finger? Or is that only for jazz guitarists?

Matai


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 15 May 04 - 05:31 AM

Yep, did it all the time when I was playing my Strat with my R&R Band - sounded fine, but folk's a different style and folk-guitarists like to use root chords and alternate tunings which need the 'ring' of open and sympathetic strings, which you just dont get if you're up and down the neck playing barres all over the place. Even luminaries such as Martin Simpson (who can play the arse off pretty much everyone) use a capo - there's no shame in it!

Some people (notably MCP) do play without a capo, but using one makes things more straightforward, especially if you're singing as well (which means using more brain than just playing or singing alone IMO).

No doubt someone (some one, some-one??) will tell me I'm talking shite, but who cares?

Johnny :0)


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Subject: RE: capos
From: GUEST,John Hardly
Date: 15 May 04 - 07:56 AM

The Crary looks like hardware. The Elliot looks like jewelry.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 15 May 04 - 04:35 PM

The G7th looks like a chuffin' good piece of kit (and it works).


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 15 May 04 - 04:45 PM

Mine now lives on the guitar, gently squeezing on the top nut when resting.All I need is one hand to operate it, its becoming easier to use daily and does a fine job, so glad you agree.

Chris Flegg never used to use a capo-kay if your from herts, cap if your northern,-that is until last week.
Had him in the same mindset as MCP ,Strollin you'll love him , I hope he'll be here when you come down.You can do a search on him.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 15 May 04 - 04:55 PM

Don't get too many experts in there Breezy, you'll scare me off! LOL


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 15 May 04 - 06:53 PM

who says theys that.

Its only what you dont know or understand that makes them that understand it, look like they are the understanding and if you understand that, then they will wonder at your understanding.

Do you understand?

good so thats understood then.

Boy that was a good bottle.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 15 May 04 - 10:39 PM

The only capo I've ever used that did not require retuning was the Sabine. It does take a bit of adjusting but you save time by not having to retune. The capo rests right on top of the fret and requires very little pressure on the screw. Unfortunately the stopped making them durin the 80's according toe the capo museum (thanks Greg). I bought mine back in the late 70's and its about seen it's day. Sure wish someone would start making them again. Check it out at the capo museum under:
Capos attached from the side
With screw


Cap't Bob


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 16 May 04 - 01:30 AM

Understood, Breezy (I think!). What was in that bottle? Musta bin good!
Cheers mate,
Johnny :0)


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Subject: RE: capos
From: matai
Date: 16 May 04 - 06:03 AM

Well personally speaking i would never put a capo near my guitar when i was in an open tuning, although i might use a slide.
Sometimes, yes, in ordinary tunings especially in jams. But most keys have a range of positions for each chord and the capo hinders that change. And what if you want to give over the chords and do a lead break?

Matai


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Spot
Date: 16 May 04 - 06:20 AM

Hello... still chuffed with my G7. No probs at all. I thought the original was "capo d'astra"...any comments?
               Regards to all....Spot


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Subject: RE: capos
From: s&r
Date: 16 May 04 - 09:09 AM

reasons for using a capo

1. To transpose when the music/chords are familiar in one key, but other instruments/voices need to be in another key.

2. To use tricks, runs, hammers etc. that are straightforward in one set of 'shapes' but not the key that's in use.

3. So two guitars can accompany the same piece with different timbres.

4. As with much flamenco, to use tone changes with shortened strings.

5. Shouldn't happen, but will lower the action if you're playing a lemon.

6. To use closer fret spacing and easier string bends mid-neck.

8. Because you want to stop the melodeons joining in.

9. For particular effects eg partial capos.

10 Because you can if you want to.

Reasons to avoid capos

Dunno, they seem harmless enough.

BTW Chambers Dictionary gives both capotasto and (unusually) capodastro

Stu


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 May 04 - 12:35 PM

Spot, read my post above (14 May 04 - 04:47 PM). Derivation of the word capotasto (capo for short). Not capo d'astra, which is one of a couple of mis-hearings or corruptions of the original Italian.

That's not just my wild-assed idea or opinion, that's authoritative.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 16 May 04 - 04:39 PM

Well Matai, I play the geetar to accompany myself singing. I do it for pleasure. I don't regard playing as an exercise in, or demonstration of, my enormous intellect or manual dexterity. I can't rub my belly and pat my head at the same time, and Christ knows I find it difficult enough to remember the chords and words and perform both simultaneously and with accuracy. Anything that makes it easier and more comfortable for me, and pleasing to my audience, is OK by me.

Capo on! (G7th of course!) :0)


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Subject: RE: capos
From: GUEST,Dodgyfolk
Date: 16 May 04 - 06:01 PM

Saw MArtin Carthy use the G& a few weeks back. He seemed to find it ok and it produced a good sound. As to the Kysers - I have used one for a couple of years and dont have a problem with them. Why adjust when it will do it for you?


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 16 May 04 - 06:51 PM

G7th sets new standards so it does it better.
Easier and more efficient.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 17 May 04 - 11:43 AM

Elliot capo - nocomputercharlie has one of those. An old one made of brass. We could never figure out who made it. Slow to work but looks very nice in the sound room - one of those conversation starters.

Is there a link to the Dan Crary one? Or just a google?

Steve


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 May 04 - 12:09 PM

Matai, a capo is not just a "cowboy's crutch" as some jazz and classic guitarists mistakenly assume. There is more than just one reason for using a capo, all of which are musically perfectly sound. The usual assumption is that anyone who uses a capo is not a very competent guitarist and can only play in a limited number of keys. But note that the difficulty in playing in certain keys is inherent in all musical instruments. A guitarist, including a virtuoso classic guitarist, is not going to be real happy playing compositions written in a key anywhere on the left side of the Circle of Fifths (from F around to Gb). Stringed instruments are easiest to play in sharp keys, whereas brasses and woodwinds tend to be easier to play in flat keys. If you lay a composition in, say, C# minor, on a flautist, he or she is going to be tempted to flog you about the head and shoulders with their instrument.

Orchestral music is written in the full spectrum of keys, but it when it comes to assigning parts to the various instruments, the capabilities of those instruments must be taken into consideration. A good orchestrator does this. One of the things that makes a good orchestrator good is they never demand more from an instrument than it's capable of in the hands of a competent player. For example, Beethoven and Rimsky-Korsakov were excellent orchestrators. Tchaikovsky was absolutely brilliant. Mussorgsky was a good pianist, but a lousy orchestrator, which is why Rimsky-Korsakov and others did him the favor of re-orchestrating much of what he wrote.

Those who compose for the classic guitar write in keys for which the guitar is well suited. This means a fair use of open strings, especially the basses. You will note that most classic guitar works are written in keys on the right side of the Circle of Fifths—from C (at 12 o'clock) on around through the sharp keys. One of the Fernando Sor studies (No. 19 in the folio of Sor Studies with fingering by Segovia) is in Bb—bar chords almost all the way—and it's considered one of the most difficult pieces in the guitar repertoire. It's a beautiful piece of music, but it doesn't get played much, even by guitarists such as Williams, Bream, Isbin, Romero, Boyd, or Fernandez. I've only heard one recording of it, and that was on a very old record by Vincente Gomez.

Where the capo comes in is that a singer who accompanies himself or herself on the guitar has to work within the limitations of his or her own vocal range. Since I am most familiar with my own voice and its characteristics and limitations, I'll use it as an example. I'm a bass, and what I consider to be my best range (most comfortable and fullest sounding) is from a high of middle C (2nd string, 1st fret) down to the G on the 3rd fret, 6th string.   I can vocalize up to F (1st string, 1st fret and down to the low D off the edge of the fingerboard, but my most reliable and best sounding range is where I have indicated.

Take the ballad The Three Ravens. It has a range of an octave and a fourth. As far as the guitar is concerned, I could accompany that easily in the key of Am. But that would take me down to a low E (6th string, open). I can sing it with no difficulty, but that's getting pretty growly. I could also accompany it easily in Dm, but that takes me to the D above middle C, and I would rather not go there. So I sing it in Bm. Top note, B, a half step below middle C, bottom note, F# a half-step below my most comfortable bottom note of G, but since I hit in only briefly a couple of times in each verse, no problem. I could actually raise it to Cm, but it's more comfortable for me in Bm and I fell it actually sounds better there. I could do it without the capo, barring the Bm and the F#. But I chose to put my capo on the second fret and play the accompaniment as if it were in Am. This frees my fingers to play some lute-like counterpoint, which is stylistically appropriate for that particular ballad. I would not be able to do the same thing if I were inhibiting my left hand by having to bar the Bm and F# whenever they came along. The use of the capo enhances the accompaniment, which, in turn, enhances the performance of the song.

I sing Bonnie Dundee in the key of C, which for that song, is the best key for my voice. I have no difficulty at all playing the guitar in C (who does!??). But if I put the capo on the third fret, I can accompany Bonnie Dundee using the A cycle of chords, where the voicings of the chords allows me to get a drone in fifths while I play a bit of the melody between verses, an effect that hints at bagpipes. This same effect is not possible if I use the C cycle of chords. The voicings aren't right. Once again, the use of the capo enhances the accompaniment and the performance of the song.

Now, as far as my competence on the guitar is concerned, I studied classic guitar for several years, and when I'm practiced up and have a good tailwind, I can play a number of pieces from the standard concert repertoire, including such things as Fernando Sor's Minuet in C from Sonata No. 20 and Francisco Tarrega's Recuerdos de la Alhambra, which is full of bar chords all over the fingerboard, in addition to having to maintain a fast, smooth tremolo for several minutes. I also play several flamenco pieces (flamenco guitarists use the capo—the cejilla—all the time, not to change keys, but to alter the sound of the guitar), so I don't think my competence on the guitar can be questioned merely because I chose to use a capo from time to time.

And I'm not the only one. There are a lot of folk guitarists out there who can play the bejesus out of a guitar in any reasonable key you care to name, but when it suits them, chose to use a capo to good effect.

Consider the possibilities of two guitars being played together. One guitarist plays without a capo, the other uses a capo and plays up the fingerboard. Lots of possibilities for different chord voicings and textures of sound.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: capos
From: C-flat
Date: 16 Oct 04 - 12:06 PM

I'd forgotten about the G7 capo until I saw one this week in a music shop and thought I'd try it.
I can confirm the hearty reccomendations it has already received earlier in this thread. Very simple to use, very unobtrusive and doesn't apply more pressure to the strings than is neccessary which is a help with tuning.
My Jim Dunlop trigger is now consigned to the "spares" box!

C-flat.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Oct 04 - 01:34 PM

G7th is excellent - but not quite as convenient as the Keyser when it comes to adjusting it with one hand. And it is more likely to fall inside the case if you put your guitar away still wearing it.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 16 Oct 04 - 02:16 PM

G7th

The plastic knob that releases the capo breaks to reveal a sharp edge


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 16 Oct 04 - 02:17 PM

G7th

They eventually fall apart and come to pieces


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 16 Oct 04 - 02:20 PM

G7th

The physical pressure required to apply the capo places too much pressure on the finger joints.

Longer leverage as with keyser may correct this


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 16 Oct 04 - 02:21 PM

Conclusion

G7th needs modification to surpass the shubb


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 16 Oct 04 - 04:30 PM

for a minute I thought time was going backwards


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Subject: RE: capos
From: John Hardly
Date: 16 Oct 04 - 05:23 PM

Not to brag or anything ...

My Elliott is enroute to me even as we speak.

I won't forget the little people.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 16 Oct 04 - 05:31 PM

G7th

Conclusion

Not so durable May - August broke down after 3-4 months use

An aid to arthritis

but still a great concept


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Oct 04 - 12:31 PM

Okay, the verdict is in. I'll stick with the Shubb. It works fine and I'm happy with it, so why change?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Oct 04 - 07:18 AM

my god johnny that g7 sounds like a sexy bitch. can hardly wait to have a fiddle.....

Answer for the superior jazz guitarist: we folk guitarists - we need that finger free, to order the guinness - its a well known advanced technique perfected in Dublin

Other random facts:
Tessio and Clemenza were the capos, Don Corleone was the Godfather (G1)


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Subject: RE: capos
From: GUEST,G7th
Date: 30 Oct 04 - 01:25 PM

Message for Breezy
If you've had a problem with your G7th capo please get in touch and we'll sort it for you!
Nick the inventor


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 30 Oct 04 - 01:39 PM

Thanks Nick,
will do as I believe you have a potential winner,will try your web site.
John 'the User'


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 30 Oct 04 - 01:42 PM

I have tried a G7... for the money, they are a rip off...

I'll stick with Kyser... Best capo in the world for my money


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 30 Oct 04 - 01:57 PM

As I havent tried a Kyser I cant say but I am willing to see if modifications can be achieved first with what is still a very new concept and its in its early days.


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Subject: RE: capos
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 30 Oct 04 - 02:02 PM

Shubb is the sexiest capo I've ever used...


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Subject: RE: capos
From: G7th
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 07:36 AM

David Hughes has a great "Capo offer"..
Check it out!

http://www.recognised.org.uk/capo.htm


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 10:28 AM

Dumb...


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Subject: RE: capos
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 01:38 PM

Well . . . whatever works (in a pinch).

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: capos
From: breezy
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 07:33 PM

The G 'klamp' was originally used by the carpenters in my youth and probably spawned the present day G7th concept.

but I miss the screwing part.

Works on all thicknesses of necks, which shubbs cant always do.


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