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Rolling of the stone - origin?

DigiTrad:
ROLLING OF THE STONES
THE TWO BROTHERS
THE TWO BROTHERS 3
THE TWO BROTHERS 4
TWO BROTHERS


Related threads:
Lyr Req: Two Brothers (20)
INFO: Twa Brothers (3)


pavane 17 May 04 - 07:47 AM
A Wandering Minstrel 17 May 04 - 08:25 AM
JudyB 17 May 04 - 08:29 AM
Malcolm Douglas 17 May 04 - 02:46 PM
pavane 18 May 04 - 08:37 AM
LadyJean 19 May 04 - 12:35 AM
dick greenhaus 19 May 04 - 01:24 AM
GUEST 30 Apr 05 - 09:50 PM
Willa 01 May 05 - 04:39 PM
Tannywheeler 02 May 05 - 01:20 AM
Malcolm Douglas 02 May 05 - 03:54 PM
Ramblingsid 02 May 05 - 04:06 PM
Richie 16 Feb 12 - 08:37 AM
Lighter 16 Feb 12 - 09:28 AM
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Subject: Rolling of the stone - origin?
From: pavane
Date: 17 May 04 - 07:47 AM

The Young Tradition recorded a song (Fragment?) called The rolling of the stone (on Galleries, I think). I was looking for some information on the origins, but I can't find the song in a search here.
I remember the following, and can post the rest tomorrow (Can't remember the first verse, about the rolling of the stone)


2:
Will you drink of the blood
The white wine and the red
Or will you go and see pretty Susie
When that I am dead

3:
Susie charms the birds from the skies
The fish from out of the sea,
And there she lay in her true loves arms
And there was content to be


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Subject: RE: Rolling of the stone - origin?
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 17 May 04 - 08:25 AM

As in

Will ye gae tae the rollin of the stanes
The playing at the ba'
or will ye gang to see pretty susie
dance amang them a'?

I suspect itrefers either to a curling match or some scots strongest man type competition where very large sones are turned over. (see also throwing of the tree)


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Subject: RE: Rolling of the stone - origin?
From: JudyB
Date: 17 May 04 - 08:29 AM

Bok, Muir and Trickett recorded a version of this on Folk Legacy CD 1004, Vol II, The First 15 Years. Ed's notes say that it's a version of Child ballad #49 learned from Helen Schneyer. Joe Hickerson reports that some scholars haveinterpreted the ballad as describing an incestuous relationship between Susie and her brother. "Regardless, it's a chilling song of mystery, magic and love."

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Rolling of the stone - origin?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 17 May 04 - 02:46 PM

"Wandering Minstrel"'s stanza has had its spelling altered to make it appear Scottish, but it isn't. The form of the song "Pavane" asks about is American, as are almost all the examples with tunes in Bronson (a few from Scotland, recorded by the School of Scottish Studies in the 1950s/1960s, appear in the appendix).

The song has been discussed here before; there is no need to post either the verses that the Young Tradition got from Oscar Brand (I don't know where he found them) or the longer set; I have already posted text and tune as noted from tradition, and what appears to be an edited and/or collated set is in the DT. See Two Brothers (Rolling of the Stones), where I gave some specifics (and a couple of guesses).

The line in this particular variant that people have taken to imply an incestuous subtext appears to be a modern interpolation; it is clear that Susie or Susanne, when she appears, is not the sister but the "truelove" of the dead brother. There may be other factors in other variants which might perhaps imply something of the sort (there's at least one recent study that I haven't read so far), though for what it's worth, I am not yet convinced.


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Subject: RE: Rolling of the stone - origin?
From: pavane
Date: 18 May 04 - 08:37 AM

Thanks. I didn't find it when I did a search (wonder why?)


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Subject: RE: Rolling of the stone - origin?
From: LadyJean
Date: 19 May 04 - 12:35 AM

It was on a record by Oscar Brand and Jean Ritchie that my sister used to own. As I remember, Brand said it was about Lady Mondegreen who was killed with the Earl of Moray. OH Well, mondegreens happen.


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Subject: RE: Rolling of the stone - origin?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 19 May 04 - 01:24 AM

I strongly suspect that rolling of the stones refers to a game of marbles. Not everything has earth-shattering significance.


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Subject: RE: Rolling of the stone - origin?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 05 - 09:50 PM

i have ......susie charmed the birds &c.......she charmed youg john all out of his grave and there in his ams did lay,
what do want of me susie
what do you want from me
one kiss
one kiss from your cold clay lips then its back to your grave


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Subject: RE: Rolling of the stone - origin?
From: Willa
Date: 01 May 05 - 04:39 PM

Eileen McGann sang this at Whitby and has recorded it on 'Heritage' DRGN 005CD
Sleeve notes relate it to Child 49 'The Two Brothers'... 'The earlier song makes it clear that it is his own brother who kills te young man at the dance because he wants pretty Susie for himself. Rolling the stones and tossing the ball were the games the two brothers used to play togeher (as Dick suggested) before jealousy came between them'


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Subject: RE: Rolling of the stone - origin?
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 02 May 05 - 01:20 AM

(Wow! My cookie's back!)
Guest of 30 April,'05 -- sounds/looks like a relative of "Th' Unquiet Grave", a version of which is done by Rosalie Sorrels(Sorels?).      Tw


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Subject: RE: Rolling of the stone - origin?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 May 05 - 03:54 PM

See the other thread I indicated a year ago. Eileen McGann is only guessing when she says "The earlier song makes it clear..." (it doesn't) but most people only guess, so there's nothing unusual in that.


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Subject: RE: Rolling of the stone - origin?
From: Ramblingsid
Date: 02 May 05 - 04:06 PM

dick greenhaus said:

"I strongly suspect that rolling of the stones refers to a game of marbles"

Or possibly dice/die?


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Subject: RE: Rolling of the stone - origin?
From: Richie
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 08:37 AM

Hi,

I've posted Oscar Brand's lyrics here: http://bluegrassmessengers.com/the-rolling-of-the-stones--brand-ny-1959.aspx

Also I believe "the rolling of the stones" was once "the putting of stones" or "the throwing of the stones." Here's an excerpt from Child B, collected by Motherwell from Widow McCormick, January 19, 1825; Westbrae, Paisley:

It's whether will ye play at the ba', brither,
Or else throw at the stone?'

Richie


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Subject: RE: Rolling of the stone - origin?
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 09:28 AM

See Malcolm Douglas's post of May 11, 2002, here:

thread.cfm?threadid=47394#709060


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