A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?

Subject: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 17 May 04 - 09:54 AM

I know there's a band. A very good band.

I know there's a saying.

However, I can't track down a song with this as part of its title.

I may have missed it, though...

Just to explain more fully - I have written a song, which uses the phrase, but I don't want to steal an existing song title.

Can anyone help?

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From:
Date: 17 May 04 - 09:58 AM

BAIRNS is scottish for children, offspring, etc.

Line is 'Old Jock Tamsons Children'. Quite possibly a song or line from same.

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 17 May 04 - 10:03 AM

Thanks for that, but I wasn't looking for a translation, and in any case it's not "Old Jock Tamson's" , but it's "All Jock Tamson's".

I know what it means, which is why I used it in a song, but I'm wondering whether someone *else* has used it..

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: HB
Date: 17 May 04 - 10:09 AM

I see nothing wrong with using the line even if it is a song title.

Along as you haven't used the whole of a song which obviously you have not, use it.

I ran a search and nothing comes up in ascap or bmi.

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 17 May 04 - 10:55 AM

Thanks, HB..

Yeah, I know there's nothing *wrong* with a number of different songs sharing a title. I'm just a little fastidious about stuff like that.

If I've gone to the trouble of making up (sounds awfully pretentious to say "composed") my own melody, and written my own lyrics, I don't see why I shouldn't make the effort and come up with an original title.

Thanks for your help.


Steven

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: nutty
Date: 17 May 04 - 12:26 PM

There is a song called "We're a' John Tamson's Bairns" words by Joseph Roy esq. Published in Songs of the British Isles (Second Series)

The chorus goes..................

Oh, we're a' John Tamson's bairns,
We're a' John Tamson's bairns,
There'll never be peace in the world again
Till we hear them singin' wi' micht and wi' main
We're a' John Tamson's bairns

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: Bardford
Date: 17 May 04 - 12:50 PM

John R. Campbell, a Calgary musician, has a song with a similar title. Not recorded yet, as far as I know.

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 17 May 04 - 03:00 PM

According to Roud's index We're A' John Tamson's Bairns (6321)appears both in Ford's Vagabond Songs And Ballads and in Greig's Folk Song of the North East

Mick

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 17 May 04 - 03:53 PM

You can see a broadside edition of 1869 at  Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads:

We're a' John Tamson's bairns

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 17 May 04 - 07:26 PM

I've tried both the links above, and so far been unable to connect, but I think it's a server problem at their end.

Thank you for your help.

I thought there must be something around. I'm annoyed that I hadn't thought of searching on "John Tamson"

I must look out this song in any case.

Thanks again

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 18 May 04 - 03:40 PM

Looking forward to hearing the new one in July, Steven! All the best to the Glasgow session!

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 18 May 04 - 05:47 PM

Susanne..

if you're desperate to hear it, there's a lo-fi version which is streamed here:

Click here

It's the one called "cominghome lofi.mp3"

And I'll look forward to seeing you in July at Café Source. By the way, there's a new venue opening up in Glasgow over at Byres Road/Gt Western Rd, called "Oran Mor". It's a bar/restaurant/performance venue. I think they are opening up with a bang at the West End Festival.


All the best


Steven

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 18 May 04 - 07:32 PM

This is the same song that won the recent Girvan festival songwriting
competition, deservedly so; seeing as how Steven doesn't mention his success, I will!
Well done again, enjoying listening to it again via the link!

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 19 May 04 - 04:27 AM

Thanks for the kind remarks, Tattie.

Are we acquainted?

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 23 May 04 - 01:26 PM

I also took part in said competition; did the song about redundancy/unemployment

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 23 May 04 - 08:23 PM

I remember it very well - excellent song.

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 24 May 04 - 07:17 PM

Scratching backs? No, yours was better!

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 04 - 02:12 PM

Phrase originates in edinburgh scotland fron late 1800's. Reverend John Thomson (Jock Tamsons) of Duddingston Kirk called his congregation his bairn's (children) - means that we are all children of god

hope this helps

gerry (edinburgh)

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: GUEST,Scabby Douglas
Date: 19 Jun 04 - 08:27 PM

Hmm - that's interesting, gerry. Thank you for that. The other usage of the name Jock or John Tamson seems to have been as a colloquial way of referring to someone meek or subdued or henpecked.

I think that usage pre-dates the Jock Tamson's bairns phrase - perhaps back to Walter Scott or before. If the name or a form of it was proverbial already, it may have been easy for it to become incorporated into a new saying.

Thanks again...

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: Drumshanty
Date: 20 Jun 04 - 11:24 AM

May Mayberry sang this at Keith Festival last weekend and it was a bit of a hit. People in the audience were singing the chorus as if they had known it all their lives by the Saturday night ceilidhs. She also passed the words on to me and my pals and we're talking about adding it to our list. It's a strong and moving song.

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: GUEST,Scabby Douglas (at home)
Date: 20 Jun 04 - 08:23 PM

Drumshanty, May is a fine singer, and she mentioned (by email) that she'd been singing it around. I'm glad you like the song. Are you with The Linties?

I've written a few songs, and sometimes people have said nice things about some of them, but the reaction to this one has surprised me. I'd be happy for you to make it part of your repertoire.


Best Wishes


Steven Clark

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 04:31 AM

It's amazing what you find out when you get a little bit of extra information...

http://www.dailly-parish.co.uk/localhistory/johnthomson/johnthomson.htm

The Rev. John Thomson was not only a contemporary, but also a friend, of Scott's and a gifted painter. The URL given explains how the saying came about. And, given that he was a kenspeckle figure, it seems quite likely that it could have become known and repeated...

Subject: RE: A' Jock Tamsons Bairns: IS this a song?
From: Drumshanty
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 05:48 PM

Hi Steven. Thanks for that - I'll pass it on to the other Linties, and we'll give it a good go!