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Lyr Req: Lake George, 1922 (Teresina M. Huxtable)

DigiTrad:
LOST ON THE LADY ELGIN
RED IRON ORE
THE BIGLER'S CREW


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steve.trott@eds.com 13 Oct 98 - 12:02 PM
Susan of DT 13 Oct 98 - 10:53 PM
Joe Offer 14 Oct 98 - 01:07 AM
Steve Trott 14 Oct 98 - 09:22 AM
Joe Offer 14 Oct 98 - 02:49 PM
Steve Trott to Joe Offer and Susan of DT 14 Oct 98 - 09:43 PM
Joe Offer 15 Oct 98 - 01:25 AM
Big Mick 15 Oct 98 - 08:39 AM
To: Big Mick fro Steve. 15 Oct 98 - 11:11 AM
Joe Offer 15 Oct 98 - 12:39 PM
Barry Finn 15 Oct 98 - 02:34 PM
to: The whole bunch. From: Steve 15 Oct 98 - 03:31 PM
harpgirl 15 Oct 98 - 04:06 PM
Charlie Baum 15 Oct 98 - 04:09 PM
Jerry Friedman 15 Oct 98 - 06:25 PM
rich r 16 Oct 98 - 12:29 AM
To: Charlie Baum and others. 16 Oct 98 - 08:53 AM
TO: Jerry Friedman 16 Oct 98 - 08:56 AM
Big Mick 16 Oct 98 - 10:22 PM
mcmud 17 Oct 98 - 01:18 AM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 17 Oct 98 - 06:00 PM
mcmud 17 Oct 98 - 11:58 PM
Charlie Baum 18 Oct 98 - 12:47 AM
Big Mick 18 Oct 98 - 01:34 AM
Steve 19 Oct 98 - 08:55 AM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 19 Oct 98 - 05:31 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 19 Oct 98 - 05:44 PM
harpgirl 19 Oct 98 - 06:31 PM
rich r 19 Oct 98 - 08:15 PM
Big Mick 19 Oct 98 - 10:10 PM
Steve 20 Oct 98 - 07:30 AM
Steve 20 Oct 98 - 04:53 PM
Joe Offer 20 Oct 98 - 06:02 PM
Charlie Baum 21 Oct 98 - 10:32 AM
northfolk 21 Oct 98 - 10:27 PM
Big Mick 22 Oct 98 - 01:49 AM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 22 Oct 98 - 04:32 AM
Joe Offer 05 Jan 00 - 05:40 PM
lamarca 06 Jan 00 - 11:53 AM
Blackcat2 06 Jan 00 - 04:10 PM
Art Thieme 07 Jan 00 - 10:53 PM
Sandy Paton 08 Jan 00 - 01:42 AM
bseed(charleskratz) 08 Jan 00 - 03:08 AM
bseed(charleskratz) 08 Jan 00 - 03:13 AM
Joe Offer 08 Jan 00 - 04:08 AM
Dale Rose 08 Jan 00 - 08:46 AM
catspaw49 08 Jan 00 - 10:01 AM
Art Thieme 08 Jan 00 - 10:19 AM
Joe Offer 08 Jan 00 - 07:10 PM
Art Thieme 08 Jan 00 - 09:33 PM
dolt@rochester.rr.com 09 Jan 00 - 04:31 PM
Sandy Paton 09 Jan 00 - 04:44 PM
Dick Swain, rswain@wcupa.edu 09 Jan 00 - 05:02 PM
Dick Swain, rswain@wcupa.edu 09 Jan 00 - 05:21 PM
Joe Offer 17 Mar 00 - 04:39 PM
Crowhugger 17 Mar 00 - 11:16 PM
Sorcha 17 Mar 00 - 11:34 PM
Art Thieme 18 Mar 00 - 10:20 AM
Joe Offer 23 Mar 00 - 06:03 PM
GUEST,Erik 20 Sep 09 - 12:15 AM
GUEST,R.D. Eno 16 Nov 16 - 02:51 PM
NOMADMan 16 Nov 16 - 06:12 PM
Charlie Baum 18 Nov 16 - 02:01 AM
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Subject: Great Lakes
From: steve.trott@eds.com
Date: 13 Oct 98 - 12:02 PM

In the early 1980's I heard an album (I believe from Flying Fish) that consisted of songs by a group of 3 or 4 women from New England who sang songs that related to the region. I believe one of the last names used in the group's name was Huxtable or Constable. The songs probably spanned a time from the 1890's to the 1920's or so. One song in particular stuck with me as it told a story of sailing as youngsters on an excursion steamer on Lake George or Champlain. It was very descriptive and told about the scenery as well as the games they played, food they ate,etc. Does anyone know of this group or the recordings? Thank you.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Susan of DT
Date: 13 Oct 98 - 10:53 PM

Huxtable, Christianson & Hood?


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Oct 98 - 01:07 AM

Hmmmm. As a person who comes from the real Great Lakes, I can tend to get a bit touchy at the mention of Lake George and particularly Lake Champlain in the same breath. However, I'll be gracious this evening and overlook it.
I'll betcha the song is Lake George 1922; the artists, as Susan says, Huxtable, Christensen & Hood (click here); and the album, Wallflowers, Philo #1053, issued in 1980. It appears to have been deleted from the Philo catalogue, but you might want to contact Rounder Records (click here) and see if they can find a copy of the LP for you or make you a cassette.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Steve Trott
Date: 14 Oct 98 - 09:22 AM

Thank you for your help, folks. In reply to 'Susan of DT', I understand her being touchy regarding the 'real' great lakes. I am from the Midwest and lived on Lake Michigan and Erie and know the pride people take in the area (in fact, I saw the Edmund Fitzgerald just prior to its sinking). Currently, I live in Virginia where people don't relate to these things. However, I recently read that there is a movement afoot to include (I believe) Lake Champlain in the Great Lakes.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Oct 98 - 02:49 PM

Hi, Steve - I grew up in Racine, Wisconsin, two blocks from Lake Michigan. I was born in Detroit and my family lived there forever, so I've been brought up to consider St. Clair to be one of the Great Lakes.

But Champlain? No way, Jose. It's a pretty lake, but not a Great Lake.

I believe that Congress actually passed a bill declaring Champlain to be one of the Great Lakes, so that Vermont could qualify for Sea Grant money. The declaration was repealed within a few days because there was such an outcry from people from the real Great Lakes - but they figured out a way to give Vermont the money, anyhow. Small states like Vermont have just as many senators as the big ones have, so they do get their way in battles like this.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Steve Trott to Joe Offer and Susan of DT
Date: 14 Oct 98 - 09:43 PM

Thanks very much for your help folks. Those are the ladies. Where do you guys get all this info and where does that link go that Joe provided? I contacted Rounder and I am out of luck with them. Do you have any info on this group? Did they do other recordsings, etc.? I normally don't go to all this trouble but that song 'Lake George- 1922' has stuck in my mind for years. It wouldn't have been a bad life.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Oct 98 - 01:25 AM

Hi, Steve - the link I gave is to Folk Music - An Index to Recorded Resources, a service of the Milton S. Eisenhower Library in Baltimore - it's part of Johns Hopkins University, and it also has the excellent Lester S. Levy Collection of Sheet Music. For more online resources, check our links page here at Mudcat.
But if Rounder can't help you, I don't know where to find a recording. I've never heard of the group before. Maybe some nice person will have the record and offer so send you a tape or e-mail you a recording. Refresh this thread once a day for a few days (by posting a new message, with just the word "refresh" in the body), and see what happens.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Big Mick
Date: 15 Oct 98 - 08:39 AM

Steve,

We have a pretty good shop here in Grand Rapids, MI for finding this sort of thing. I will check it out and see if I can find you a copy. If I do, I will pick it up and let you know. You can catch up with me on it later. I am willing to do this as long as you NEVER mention Lake Champlain and THE GREAT LAKES in the same breath again.

All the best,

Mick from Gun Lake, Michigan, dead between two real Great Lakes.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: To: Big Mick fro Steve.
Date: 15 Oct 98 - 11:11 AM

I agree to the terms and greatly appreciate any direction or assistance regarding the group.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Oct 98 - 12:39 PM

Yeah, Steve, you gotta be careful to speak of the Great Lakes with reverence. You almost got mowed down by a couple of superlakers.
A superlaker, by the way, is an ore boat, a thousand feet long by eighty feet wide. They just barely fit in the biggest lock at Sault Ste. Marie, the Soo Locks that join Lake Superior to Lake Huron. The aircraft carrier Enterprise is only a hundred feet longer (but a lot wider). The superlakers don't have the classic lines of the older ore boats, but they sure are big. The Edmund Fitzgerald, one of the biggest ore boats built in the 1950's, was something like 735 feet long.
Just had to put a little lake lore in a Great Lakes thread.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Barry Finn
Date: 15 Oct 98 - 02:34 PM

Joe, the lore of ore on the Lake is great.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: to: The whole bunch. From: Steve
Date: 15 Oct 98 - 03:31 PM

Yes, Yes- I will do pennance and wear a hair shirt for a week and then shoot my dog. Being from the Midwest myself, I should have known better than trying to be cute with such a sensitive subject- it's like joking about Mayor (the original) Daley. Anyway, I also lived in the Milan, Sandusky, Huron Ohio areas and did see alot of freighters especially in the fall when they would unload coal for Ohio Edison. By the way, speaking of the Edmund Fitzgerald, has anyone seen the documentary about its sinking on the Discovery Channel?


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: harpgirl
Date: 15 Oct 98 - 04:06 PM

Guys,
This thread is making me cry. I sailed and lived on Lake St. Clair and the Detroit River and loved every inch of it. We used to have contests grabbing the diamonds on the water on sunny sailing days...I lived right on the St. Clair River later on and although my house is torn down now I watched the freighters, sailed among them, catalogued them, and dreamed about them. They are awsome aren't they Joe? Lake St. Clair should be a Great Lake. I never heard of that other one, watchmacallit Lake Chumpion? Chumpchange? harpgirl


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Subject: Lyr Add: LAKE GEORGE, 1922 (Teresina M. Huxtable)
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 15 Oct 98 - 04:09 PM

Huxtable, Christensen and Hood are three women who sang together, beginning in their college days. They all went to school together in upstate New York (at Skidmore, if memory serve me correctly). Liz Hood grew up in the Adirondacks near Lake George, and according to the liner notes on Wallflowers, Teresina Huxtable wrote "Lake George, 1922" "to prove that she had not fallen asleep while Liz's father told the stories she based it on."

LAKE GEORGE, 1922

Steaming up dark waters that are well defined by pines
Looking up the carbon stacks make straight and sturdy lines
Sagamore and Oregon their boilers like some forge
Are journeying [churning(?)] to that rhythm through the waters of Lake George

Mothers, cats and children carrying all that they could take
Disembark at Huletts or at Baldwin up the lake
Children shriek about the decks, the ladies poke and scold
There's no excuse to run so loose although you're ten years old

Dinner's served with scenery in Oregon's main hall
Roger's Rock is moving by in moonlit early fall
Some stop to think about the ranger trapped by Indian foes
Who changed his fate and chanced the cliff and proudly strode off through the snow

Who can now remember about that night so far away
Sagamore ran aground while pushing through Blairs Bay
Later she was seen by some half sunk and half asleep
You could rattle through her dining room and steal what you could keep

Steaming up dark waters that are well defined by pines
Looking up the carbon stacks make straight and sturdy lines
Sagamore and Oregon their boilers like some forge
Are journeying [churning(?)] to that rhythm through the waters of Lake George

Teresina M. Huxtable
Spice Hockey Music/BMI
transcription by Charles Baum

Notes: Hulett's [Landing] is pronounced Hew'-lets. Roger's Rock is the site of a famous incident in the French and Indian Wars. In the spring of 1758, Major Robert Rogers of the Rangers escaped a band of Indians by reversing his snowshoes to confuse the Indian scouts and taking an alternate route down the mountain. The Indians later saw him heading down the lake toward Fort William Henry, some 20 miles away.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 15 Oct 98 - 06:25 PM

Just thought everybody needed to know that Milan (Ohio) is pronounced like "smilin'".

Jerry, who grew up near Cleveland and spent some vacation time at Lakeside and Catawba "Island".


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: rich r
Date: 16 Oct 98 - 12:29 AM

As another denizen of this group with deep (and wet) roots from formative years on one of the Great Lakes (Two Rivers, The Coolest Spot in Wisconsin {that's a meteorlogical observation}), I too was incensed by the Lake Shamplain Sea Grant grab. I would however, modify the "in the same breath" rule to permit sentiments such as: Lake Shamplain is NOT one of the Great Lakes. Any attempts to link them in an inclusive manner should not be tolerated by current or former Great Lakers (not to be confused with a really big trout) and really should be opposed by all right thinking Americans and Canadians. Any body have an opinion about Great Slave Lake?

rich r


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: To: Charlie Baum and others.
Date: 16 Oct 98 - 08:53 AM

Thank you for the lyrics and the bios. This is the song I recall which for some reason has remained with me. Now if I could only sing. Do you have the album yourself? Based on my queries, I didn't realize there were so many people around who followed music in such depth (and touchy about the Great Lakes). I've really enjoyed this website as it is sort of like hanging out at a street corner.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: TO: Jerry Friedman
Date: 16 Oct 98 - 08:56 AM

Been to the Milan Melon Festival recently?


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Oct 98 - 10:22 PM

Harp, You must have sailed out to Strawberry Island, Goose Island, Harsen's Island. How about the North, South and Middle channels, and fishing off the Salt River?

Lots of good memories. Have you ever seen prettier water than when you anchor off Strawberry?

All the best,

Mick


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: mcmud
Date: 17 Oct 98 - 01:18 AM

Lake Chumpchange!?!?! Ooooh, them's fightin' words to an upstate New Yucker! I'm a native Saratogian- home of Caffe Lena, a great coffeehouse. Living in the real Great Lakes region (Ann Arbor) currently. This is a very entertaining thread.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 17 Oct 98 - 06:00 PM

Lake Champlain is not one of the Great Lakes. If you are going to include that, then why not Lake Winnipeg which lies in the same general chain and is bigger than Lake Erie? Sounds like the Vermonters trying to get some government funding here by having their lake deemed a Great Lake. This reminds of me of Queen Elizabeth being deemed a man when she visited Saudi Arabia, and about as logical.:)

I look out at the Detroit River as I type this. Apparently it is not a "true river", whatever that means, but happily the Detroit River ignores this calumny and flows on to the Atlantic nonetheless.

Do a thread search and one or more threads on songs from the Great Lakes should show up. Smithsonian Folkways has a CD of songs from the Great Lakes. I haven't heard it so I don't know if some of the songs are adaptations of salt water songs.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: mcmud
Date: 17 Oct 98 - 11:58 PM

I believe Stan Roger's recording "From Fresh Water" has a song about Lake Superior.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 18 Oct 98 - 12:47 AM

I DO have a copy of the Wallflowers album. By the way, the one line I'm uncertain of in my transcription is "Mothers, XXXXX and children carrying all that they could take..."

Lake George has one delightful characteristic none of the Great Lakes has--it's fjord-like. There may be bluffs along Lakes Ontario, dunes above Lake Michigan, and hills called mountains on the south side of Superior, but none of them are doninated by mountainous lakeshores.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Big Mick
Date: 18 Oct 98 - 01:34 AM

Charlie,

Nice....yes, picturesque......you betcha, Great......nope.

Provincially yours,

Mick


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Steve
Date: 19 Oct 98 - 08:55 AM

Any more comments?


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 19 Oct 98 - 05:31 PM

The Stan Rogers song of which you speak is probably The White Squall. Also on that CD, From Fresh Water, are The Blue Dolphin and The Nancy, which deal with the Detroit River area. I posted on a former thread about how Stan got his facts wrong with respect to the latter two songs, and need not repeat that since it should show up in a thread search. Great songs, nonetheless.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 19 Oct 98 - 05:44 PM

I am a disinterested observer of the matter. I am myself a saltie, being born and raised in New Brunswick.

However, in all fairness to the puddleduckers I can't see Lake Champlain being part of the Great Lakes. You can't just declare something to be what it is not. I always thought that Plattsburg was a pleasant little town, though.

BTW, there are also some French Canadian songs of the Great Lakes. A local guy named Beneteau went around and collected songs from the French people of the Windsor area. He has a CD and a tape out based on his efforts.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: harpgirl
Date: 19 Oct 98 - 06:31 PM

Mick,
My favorite spot in the North channel is South Benjamin Island and I liked to fish up the river from Okeechobee Lodge...oh and the Snows...haven't been on the Salt River....Covered Portage Cove was my favorite harbor. We would pick blueberries and my mom would make blueberry pancakes to die for...we went every year after pop sailed in the Port Huron Mackinaw race and then we would sail home down the Canadian side of Lake Huron or sometimes across to Harrison if the weather was bad...harpgirl


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: rich r
Date: 19 Oct 98 - 08:15 PM

For good songs about the Great Lakes, check out any of Lee Murdock's recordings. Also a nice collection a number of years ago called "Burnham Harbor" by a group (duo) named Privateer. I think they are out of the Chicago area, but I bought the recording at a museum on the shores of Lake Michigan in Manitowoc, Wis. Minnesotan, Charlie Maguire has also recorded a few songs that have a Lake Superior setting.

rich r


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Big Mick
Date: 19 Oct 98 - 10:10 PM

Jeez Harp, You are going to make me break down. Those were the days, Eh? It's awful busy these days. I guess younger days always seem better in memory.

All the best,

Mick


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Steve
Date: 20 Oct 98 - 07:30 AM

Did anyone catch the documentary on the Edmund Fitzgerald last night on The Discovery Channel? It was pretty good and I thought factual. As I've noted before, I live in Virginia and people here don't understand the Great Lakes- as most haven't been in that area They just don't realize that a storm on those lakes can be just as bad if not worse than on the Chesapeake. I recall, having lived in Port Clinton, the very bitter winters and especially the massive ice jams that built up along the shore of Lake Erie. I lived there when Island Airlines still flew a Ford Tri-motor and on a cold winter's day you could look up and see it headed for Put-in-Bay- it was like living in Antarctica.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Steve
Date: 20 Oct 98 - 04:53 PM

Well, the reason this whole dialog started was that I was looking for a song about Lake George. The recording issued by Philo (1053) was supposedly no longer available. Well, Philo just sent me an e-mail that the vinyl recording was again available- with tape to follow. The album is 'Wallflowers' by a group entitled Huxtable, Christianson and Hood. Some of you folks either know of or have the album.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Oct 98 - 06:02 PM

Good deal, Steve -
and now you know fer durn certain which ones are the Great Lakes, don't you?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 21 Oct 98 - 10:32 AM

Some of this conversation reminds me of the lines of a bickering couple in a Woody Allen movie: "Okay. Have it your way. The Pacific Ocean is a greater ocean than the Atlantic."


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: northfolk
Date: 21 Oct 98 - 10:27 PM

I am finishing up my workday, here in the Detroit area, around 10:00 pm, reading the posts of all of you, particularly Mick and harpgirl, and getting a tad homesick. I am closer to lake St.Clair geographically, than my home on Lake Huron, where for many years, I worked in an industry that relied on lake shipping. I ate many a meal on the likes of the Nicolet, The Sam Laud, the Buffalo, the American Republic, the Richard Reiss...and picked up tons of overtime dumping them full of Gypsum ore. I don't get too excited about the Lake Champlain thing...just one more(and frankly less egregious) scam than most, to grab the money. One of my "pals" from up north is a guy who writes and sings under the name Tom Canty, a bizarre guy, great talent great voice occasionally puts his band Shipwrecked back together, to play some bar gigs...gotta go, thanks for stirring my memory.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Big Mick
Date: 22 Oct 98 - 01:49 AM

Northfolk, You are welcome, my brother. When are we going to hook up for a jar of the old dark stuff? Maybe we could meet in Lansing where I will introduce you to one of the great players music stores ever (Elderly), and then slip over to Moriarty's for some of John Jameson's very finest Irish Whiskey with a chaser of Uncle Arthur's. Waddya say?

All the best,

Mick


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 22 Oct 98 - 04:32 AM

Speaking of the Great Lakes, does anyone know the status of the Blue Dolphin of the Stan Rogers song fame? Last I heard of it, in one of the Detroit papers, it had sunk again at dock in Detroit because some Homer Simpson unplugged a pump. And there was indeed some old man who had the dream of restoring it, although it must be in terrible shape by now.

It is the sister ship to the original Bluenose. I am surprised that a party of patriotic Nova Scotians have not appeared to rescue it by now.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes Songs & Stories
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jan 00 - 05:40 PM

In another thread, Larry (InOBU) mentioned the books on Great Lakes by Dana Thomas Bowen. I have his Lore of the Lakes (1940, Freshwater Press), and I'll agree Bowen does a great job. Can anybody suggest folklore books, recordings, and especially songbooks about the Lakes?
Click here for one good Great Lakes song. As I recall, it was written by Shel Silverstein, but I'd better do more research on that.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: lamarca
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 11:53 AM

My favorite Great Lakes song is "Red Iron Ore", especially as sung by Art Thieme! It's a detailed description of the route iron freighters took from "Da U.P." to the mills in Cleveland, and the races the captains had with each other.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Blackcat2
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 04:10 PM

Well my mom's from Brockport NY and my dad's from Chicago so I guess I have the lineage to comment here.

Love all the Great Lakes and haven't spent enough time on them.

Just wanted to see if there is a term for: really-big-lakes-that-are-oh-so-very-nice-but-ain't-Great

I'd like to nominate Lake Okeechobee here in Florida. Second largest fresh water lake wholly in the U.S. and only 14 ft deep on average. I've seen storms whip up on Okeechobee in less than 10 minutes that destroy the rigging on many sailboats.

Any others?


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Art Thieme
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 10:53 PM

lamarca,

In the town of Vermillion, Ohio---on Lake Erie---west of Cleveland---there is a fine little great lakes museum. I last stopped there in the '70s and was amazed to find the actual wooden nameplate off of the tall ore carrier E. C. Roberts.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 01:42 AM

Several suggestions:

Walter Havighurst, Three Flags at the Straits, the Forts of Mackinac. Excellent, very readable history.

Walter Havighurst, The Long Ships Passing, the Story of the Great Lakes. Likewise. Havighurst also wrote the book of the Upper Mississippi in the "Rivers of America Series," plus several fine histories of the midwest (Wilderness for Sale, etc.)

Two nicely illustrated books of what is often called the "coffee table" type, but containing good, concise historical essays: Land of the Inland Seas by William Donohue Ellis, and A Pictorial History of the Great Lakes by Harlan Hatcher and Erich A. Walter.

I read another quite good and well-illustrated history of the Great Lakes recently, but I'm not sure of the title and author (a woman) and I'm darned if I can put my hands on the book right now. I've got to get some new bookshelves up here and get the recent arrivals at least roughly organized!

Sandy (who would like to be a bookstore when he grows up!)


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 03:08 AM

Let's see if I got this straight: the lore of the ore on the lakes that are great...gonna get some smilin' milan melon, must remember it's HOMES, not CHOMES--Champlain ain't great but that's all right, George is cool but it ain't great neither, the Edmund Fitzgerald ran aground in Art Thieme's backyard where it deposited its nameplate...

--seed


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 03:13 AM

oh, and I forgot: Gunn is small but it's got two big brothers and the Mighty Mick defendin' the honor of the real great lakes, of which Gunn ain't one, but that's okay, too... and why is it HOMES instead of MOSHE or SHMOE?

--seed


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Subject: Lost on the Lady Elgin
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 04:08 AM

One of my favorite Great Lakes songs is LOST ON THE LADY ELGIN, by Henry Clay Work. It's one of the most powerful shipwreck songs I know of. I had doubted the order of the verses in the database, but they're the same as the verse order on the sheet music at The Lester S. Levy Collection of Sheet Music. I may never doubt the Digital Tradition again...
Click here for a picture of the ship and a brief story about the shipwreck. I see some of those who were lost were washed ashore at my home town, Racine, Wisconsin. Kind of makes the song more powerful to me. Click here for more complete information, also click here.
-Joe Offer-

(but when I lived in Wisconsin as a kid, I thought "Lady Elgin" was a wristwatch)


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Dale Rose
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 08:46 AM

Here is Benjamin R. Tubb's Henry Clay Work page, including lyrics and midi for Lost on the Lady Elgin. Checking out the page, you will discover quite a number of Work's songs that are still around today. We should all be glad for that.

At the top of the page are links to other of Tubb's most wonderful pages. Unfortunately, my favorite page, that of William Shakespeare Hays is currently available, but it appears that a major improvement to Tubb's site is forthcoming. Bookmark http://pdmusic.org/ for up to date news.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 10:01 AM

I don't see these mentioned, but they are also excellent books. I have several of the nice pictorial books Sandy mentioned and the Bowen stuff is classic. For some wonderful stories, also try the series by Dwight Boyer:

"Ships and Men of the Great Lakes"
"Strange Adventures of the Great Lakes"
"True Tales of the Great Lakes"
"Ghost Ships of the Great Lakes"
"Great Stories of the Great Lakes"
...also...
"Great Lakes Shipwrecks and Survivals" by William Ratigan

I haven't checked, but I assume these are all available somewhere. Most of Boyer's also point out the ironies within the story, always interesting.

ART--I love Vermillion.......Its one of those quaint little places, even with progress. The museum (which has a good bookstore BTW) is excellent. I used to stop there every trip between Toledo and Cleveland when I was repping for Airtex. They have TONS of pictures and artifacts. I've been to several other Lakes museums and this place is the best.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Art Thieme
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 10:19 AM

Joe, I think we've gone over this in another thread but far be it from me to not repeat myself---often and long.

I was told by 89 year old WES ASBURY in Fort Atkinson, Wisconsin (former police chief of Whitewater) that he knew "Lost On The Lady Elgin" in his youth but could not recall the tune. I was playing in "Fort" just about every month or so; when I next did that I brought him the version recorded by Rev. Jim Howie and played it on a little cassette machine. Wes listened a few times and said, "That's it, but it weren't no waltz."

Later, I tried playing the same tune in different tempos for Wes and he yelled, "That's it!" In 2/4 time it was the same tune as "BOIL THEM CABBAGE DOWN". It was pretty cool.

Wes Asbury is the same man who sang 2 verses from the Child ballad "ROBIN HOOD'S DEATH" for me. I was pretty amazed to find those 2 verses in central Wisconsin. I fleshed it out from printed sources and used the tune Frank Hamilton had used on "GEORDIE" on his solo Folkways album (a great tune). It's on my recent CD.

Frank, was that a trad tune? Sure was a beaut.

Art Thieme


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Subject: Lost on the Lady Elgin
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 07:10 PM

OK, Art - Max's nifty new search engine brought your cabbage comparison right up. It's in this thread (click), complete with a graphic description of the naked lady in the office of the police chief, probably right across the street from the sausage factory.
but that's another matter....
I notice that in the "Lady Elgin" verses you posted, you put them in the order that seems to make more sense to me, with the ship leaving the shore first, and then the last verse the one with the weeping children. The database and the sheet music at Levy have that order reversed. Got any official reason for the way you order the verses, or is it just that you and I share the same twisted Midwestern logic?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Art Thieme
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 09:33 PM

Joe,

I do wish I could ascribe some scholarly motive for how the verses in the version of "Lady Elgin" that I saved line up, but, alas, I think it's simply the way I liked it best. I'm not even certain I know where that varient came from. As a performer, unless I was doing some kind of comparative paper, I'd tend to pick MY FAVORITE VERSION of the song to learn and hold onto. Assured that this was the best of all possible versions, it would be the one to keep. Lots of times, to save space in my notebooks and on my shelves, I'd just do a potlatch thing and rip out the songs by the handfuls and hit the garbage with 'em. I was never a collector in the neurotic way so many of my friends were/are. One miraculous day I realized that if I was unsure whether or not to keep something, I'd just send it to one of my friends who were compulsive overcollectors. (There's even a 12-step group for that.) The, ten years down the road, I'd know where to borrow it back for a week or two. And I to this day only keep the books I feel I'll use (read) again. Only had 2 guitars and 2 banjos too----one to play when the other was in the shop getting an oil change. In this way I saved tons of money (moola) and strove to one day make my way into the Guinness Book Of World Records for, as Woody Allen once said, extending adolescence past all imaginable limits. Next birthday I'll be 59 and I am still going through puberty.

Art


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: dolt@rochester.rr.com
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 04:31 PM

Great lakes songs and Canal songs are what my bamd does! Dr. Bill Hullfish, the originator of the band did his doctoral thesus on Erie (and other) Canal songs. We've gathered quite a collection of inland waterway songs as well. Let me know if you want some of them

Skip


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 04:44 PM

Skip: I'd love to see the collection! Just finished reading several books about the Erie and other canals, and have been deeply into river songs (deliberate choice of words) for a number of years. Caroline and I have wandered up and down many a forsaken waterway, just so we could visualize what we were often singing about.

What might you have that's available?

Sandy


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Dick Swain, rswain@wcupa.edu
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 05:02 PM

Sources of Great Lakes songs

"Songs of American sailormen," by Joanna C. Colcord, New York, W.W. Norton, 1938. This is an enlarged and revised edition of "Roll and go, songs of American sailormen" which was published in 1924. Most of the songs are salt water, but there are some excellent versions of Great Lakes songs included as well.

The best collection of Great Lakes songs that I know of is Ivan H. Walton Collection : Bentley Historical Library, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI (2200 Bonisteel Blvd., Ann Arbor 48109). Walton taught English at the University of Michigan School of Engineering, and his collection includes recordings as well as text. The collection does not circulate, and you need to write of call the library to find out the conditions under which you would be allowed to listen to the recordings. Barry O'Neill did extensive work on the collection sometime in the late 1960's or early 1970's.

I perform some songs from the Walton collection, including a copper-loading work song and a Great Lakes Sailors' Alphabet.

Dick Swain rswain@wcupa.edu


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Dick Swain, rswain@wcupa.edu
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 05:21 PM

Hullfish published "The Canaller's songbook : words, music, and chords to over thirty canal songs" York, Pa. : American Canal and Transportation Center, c1984.

The Songbook includes many songs from Pearl Nye, d. 1957, who sang and wrote many songs about the Ohio and Erie Canal. He was recorded by Cloea Thomas in the early 1950's and she published a collection of his songs "Scenes and Songs from the Ohio-Erie Canal. I knew Cloea Thomas, and, when she died, I was given her collection of Nye photos and manuscripts. I've donated copies to the Library of Congress. Many of the songs I know are not included in Hullfish or Thomas's collection. I'd be glad to share. I'd also be interested in the collection that Skip mentioned.

Dick Swain, rswain@wcupa.edu


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Subject: Lee Murdock - new Great Lakes CD
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 04:39 PM

Time for another link to Lee Murdock who just came out with his tenth CD of Great Lakes songs. I ordered mine just now.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Crowhugger
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 11:16 PM

Opinion on Great Slave Lake:

Slightly warmer than Lake Matapedia. And greener in spring (that's late June up in GSL-land) I've heard; ice & snow runoff I gather.

Oh, you mean about its greatness. Well, it's Great, but who was the slave. Uh-oh... and I haven't even had a drop of green beer!


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Sorcha
Date: 17 Mar 00 - 11:34 PM

Opinion on Great Slave Lake: It's a hellava long ways from almost everywhere!


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Art Thieme
Date: 18 Mar 00 - 10:20 AM

I just ordered Lee's latest CD too. He's done a great job with the songs of the lakes.

Art


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Mar 00 - 06:03 PM

Well, my Lee Murdock CD arrived today. Yessir, it's good. I'd like to quote the dedication from the CD booklet:
This album is dedicated to two very special people - to Professor Ivan Walton, folk song collector extraordinaire; and to Art Thieme who helped show me the way!
Need I say more?
Well I will. In his introduction to SHANTY BOY ON THE BIG EAU CLAIRE, which is a bit different from the version in our database, Murdock says this:
I first heard Art Thieme, Illinois' quintessential folksinger, perform this song many years ago at the North Country Folk Festival in Ironwood, Michigan. He recorded it on Songs from the Heartland, a record no longer in print, where he mentions that he learned the song from Paul Clayton in 1959 at the Gate of Horn in Chicago. He also recorded a version of the song on his cassette, On the River.
Just a quick background note: often lumberjacks in the wintertime became sailors in the summertime, because many of the lumber barons owned their own fleet of schooners to haul the lumber from the mill ponds to the lake-town markets. So a fellow could fell the timber in the snow, boom it down river in the spring, and mill and haul it in the summer and fall, all for the same employer. Just like now, folks in those days liked to work the year 'round if they could.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes
From: GUEST,Erik
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 12:15 AM

The Album is "Walflowers" by Huxtable, Christensen, and Hood, Philo Records, 1980. The song to which you refer is "Lake George 1922."


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lake George, 1922 (Teresina M. Huxtable)
From: GUEST,R.D. Eno
Date: 16 Nov 16 - 02:51 PM

A few corrections to Charlie Baum's 1998 transcription of "Lake George 1922" -- the second steamship was named Horicon (probably Horicon II), not Oregon; "Mothers, cats and children (carrying all that they can take)" should be "mothers, aunts and children," since cats carry very little beside fur; "churning" is probably better than "journeying"; and "rattle (through the dining room)" should be "paddle," since the Sagamore was only half submerged in 18 feet of water and would have been accessible by canoe. It's now 18 years since that transcription of this surpassingly beautiful song was submitted, and I've just discovered it!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lake George, 1922 (Teresina M. Huxtable)
From: NOMADMan
Date: 16 Nov 16 - 06:12 PM

A point of incidental information - the Lake George Steamboat Company, which operated the Sagamore and Horicon, is still in business and still plying the waters of Lake George as they have since 1817. Their website contains photographs of all their previous and current vessels including the Sagamore, Horicon and Horicon II. There's a lot of other history on the site.

Lake George Steamboat Company

One other thing not mentioned here or in the liner notes to the "Wallflowers" LP - "Lake George 1922" is also the title of a painting by Georgia O'Keeffe, a sometime resident of the area.

John Mazza (NOMADMan)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lake George, 1922 (Teresina M. Huxtable)
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 02:01 AM

Thanks for the corrections, RD Eno! It was a long time ago that I transcribed what I thought I heard, and now that I've seen the history link provided by my friend John Mazza (for which many thanks) I can see that's it's definitely Horicon rather than Oregon. Not having read James Fenimore Cooper (where the name Horicon comes from) nor having ridden the boats, I transformed the sounds into a familiar word. I remember Lake George from the few days I spent there back when I was about 8 or 9 years old, and I still remember "driving" one of the antique motorcars at the ride at Gaslight VIllage. We never cruised on the lake, although we did drive up Route 9N on the shores of the lake to Ticonderoga with its historic fort and pungent paper mill smells. I suppose next time I see Teresina Huxtable, I'll have to ask her to set the record straight--I bumped into her at the Old Songs Festival a year or two ago, and Huxtable Christensen & Hood has a new CD out and is setting up concerts reuniting the group.

--Charlie Baum


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