Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??

Subject: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: harpgirl
Date: 23 May 04 - 02:27 PM

Help! Nathan has lost the ability to use Internet explorer on his laptop and he does not have Netscape. How can we fix IE so it will operate? I tried restore settings; no luck.

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: Forsh
Date: 23 May 04 - 02:40 PM

If you can still receive mail, get someone to mail you the missing file (eg, get a friend to download it from MSN site, mail it to you, then burn it to disc, for loading to lap top...other than that, I have no ideas!

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 May 04 - 03:18 PM

On another computer download a copy and burn it to a CD. I think the program is way too big to email, most services won't let you send a mail that large. Get both Netscape 7.1 and Internet Explorer just in case the problem is something that hits IE but not Netscape. And there are other browsers out there that can be installed instead. Install the IE program then immediately go to microsoft.com and download the updates for the program.

Hopefully you don't have a mal-ware program that has highjacked IE or your computer. If that is the case, you'll have to download (on another computer) and install and run one of the programs (Ad-Aware, SpyBot Search and Destroy) that will isolate the problem program. Do you have a firewall or antivirus protection on the laptop? You should.

There seems to be a lot of this going around this week.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: Bill D
Date: 23 May 04 - 04:12 PM

"lost the ability to use" is kinda vague...

Won't open? Won't work after it is loaded?

Do you have ANY disk which came with any computer? IE comes with Windows, so it oughta be there...

it is a **BIG** download, so only do that as a last resort...first resort is to download a smaller browser, like Mozilla Firefox, and use that to get IE...if you really must.

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: Bill D
Date: 23 May 04 - 04:16 PM

better yet, get a good download manager, like DLExpert or Star Downloader or NetTransport. These will download large files easier.

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 23 May 04 - 05:19 PM

You cannot have any version of Windows installed and functioning without having at least some default "core" of Internet Explorer. In all likelihood, IE is still there, but some setting has told it not to be your browser.

You can go to microsoft.com and download the current IE6, and it should provide all necessary files. It will not fix a bad setup, but will simply install the latest version with the setup you have.

Before you make drastic changes, you should get a little more info on what's happened to your setup.

The first thing to check is whether some IE is functional. If you go to Start - Settings - Add/Remove programs, and IE is listed as a program you can remove, then it's probably there and you just need to fix how its set up. If you have not ever upgraded IE, it may not appear as something you can remove. This just means you're using the "default" version that came with your Windows installation.

If you really have some reason to believe that your IE is somehow corrupted, and can't be run as your browser, you can uninstall IE, using the Start - Settings - Add/Remove Programs utility, and it will revert you back to the default version that is part of your Windows version.

You will be required to have your Windows Installation Disk or for a laptop, your System Restore CD - or whatever your laptop builder gave you.

You will need to setup your connection, ISP, etc from scratch once you've done this. Most likely, going back through the setup and getting it right will fix your existing IE, so give some thought to what you really need to do before jumping in and downloading stuff.

Since several security fixes are needed for any version of IE more than a few weeks old, once you have some web connectivity, you can go to Microsoft.com and download the current version of IE and any patches that are needed.

I'll try to post a direct link to the Microsoft IE site in a little while, in case you really do need it. I'd recommend checking your internet connectin setup first.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 23 May 04 - 05:21 PM

If you (still?) have the Windows installation disk for the Windows version, reinstall Windows (which is in general a good thing anyway (in general, but see below), which will of course reinstall IE.

However, watch out. XP Pro, which I have, in reinstalling wants to reformat the hard disk in toto, wiping out anything else present. This was not a problem with Win 98. I don't know about NT or 2000.

Another problem with reinstalling is that it will be the version of Windows (whatever) that was on the installation disk, without updates, some of which you urgently want for virus protection, so you will then have to go to the Microsoft site to get all the appropriate updates.

However you reestablish IE, I highly recommend that you instantly go to www.netscape.com and download Netscape, and use it thereafter instead of IE.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 23 May 04 - 05:32 PM

Dave O -

The "reformat" thing is most likely part of the System Restore that your PC builder put on the disks. It's an option with standard WinXP, of course, since the recommended installation is to remove earlier Windows versions. It is a good point, though, as with some "System Restore" disks it may appear that that's your only option.

In WinXP, if you go through Start - Settings - Control Panel - Add/Remove Programs there should be a box on the left for Add/Remove Windows Components. If you click here, it should ask you for your Recovery/WinXP Installation disk if/when it's needed to repair any Windows components - including IE. Of course, if you "repair" IE from your original disk(s), you revert back to the "default" version for your system, so you still need to go to the web and update.

And you'll still have to do all the connection/ISP setup in most cases.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 23 May 04 - 05:40 PM

Shouldn't post in haste:

For all questions about IE, the official answers should be available at Internet Explorer Support Center.

If you look under "Step by Step Instructions and How to Articles" you'll find an "IE Setup Troubleshooter" that may be the quickest way to find what's wrong in your setup.

A little further down, under "Downloads and Updates" you can get the latest IE version.

Since you must have functional IE on your machine to run Windows, even if you don't use it as your browser, you should make it a practice to get security patches that will be available at this site on a regular basis.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: GUEST,harpgirl
Date: 23 May 04 - 05:48 PM

Well, I got onto the web using Outlook and then I loaded Ad aware and cleaned up the box and Internet Explorer was restored. I didn't know I could connect through outlook until I poked around. Thanks, everyone!   harpy

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 May 04 - 09:32 PM

Now go get Netscape and use it instead. 7.1 is far superior, IMO, to IE. Or use Opera. Or Mozilla. Sometimes I think that even good old Mosaic is superior to IE!

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: Bill D
Date: 23 May 04 - 11:30 PM

Netscape is full of AOL settings...Mozilla is not.

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 May 04 - 12:53 AM

Yeah--they wrecked Netscape when AOL bought it. The download comes in with lots of AOL shit you have to delete, even if you do a custom installation.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 08:32 PM

Yes, I think that just about says it all. Lucky Allman1957...

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: pavane
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 07:42 AM

I am concerned about the need for a working IE, mentione above. A couple of weeks ago, I had a system crash caused by an accidental power-off.

On rebooting, some programs, including IE5, Office taskbar, and Eudora, gave errors on loading.

I have reinstalled Windows (98SE), and installed the latest version of Eudora, but still can't get IE or Eudora to work.

I have successfully installed Netscape, and am now using that, but would like to find out why IE doesn't work. (As I recall, I am getting a protection fault)

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 04:13 PM

A power-off shouldn't ordinarily change things on your hard drive, where all the settings are stored; but the rule of "anything's possible" probably applies here. Often a first boot will show errors that go away if you just re-boot (sometimes a couple of times).

Reinstalling Windows usually obliterates all your connection settings, so you'll have to re-set everything. For Win98SE, "Start - Settings - Control Panel - Internet Options" should get you into where you will probably need to make fixes. The settings needed depend on your specific computer setup, kind of connection, and to some extent on who is your Internet Service Provider. Some ISPs require accessory programs to connect, occasionally with different versions for different browsers.

Reinstalling Win98SE should have put IE back, but it will be the default version for Win98, probably IE4 or IE4.5. You can check whether IE itself is working by opening any file with .htm extension from your own machine, since it should be the default "reader" for all such files. If you don't have a test file, you can make one in Word by typing a bit of text and "Save As" html, or just make a plain text file and change the file extension from .txt to .htm - or right click here, view source, copy and save a page of good source code.

Regardless of whether you intend to use IE, I would recommend that you update to IE6 with latest security fixes. IE does a bunch of stuff within Windows, so some "holes" in IE may expose you to maliciousness even if you use another browser - the IE fixes are part of keeping Windows clean.

A remotely possible cause for not getting an IE connection is that some ISPs require an encryption level higher than was in the original IE4, so updating your IE might (remote chance) solve the connection problem, although it's likely you'll still need to reset your connection parameters.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: Homeless
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 11:08 AM

A power-off shouldn't ordinarily change things on your hard drive,

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this, John. I've got a tempermental machine that has W2k on it that frequently crashes. Upon boot, it goes thru scandisk to find lost clusters, and will convert any to recovery files. Which means that any file that was open when the machine crashed is likely to end up gone. I've lost data files, dlls, config files, etc. that way, and reinstalled so many programs I've lost count.

But the worst part is that cocky MS message on reboot that says, "You're seeing this because you didn't shut down correctly. Always use the start button." Cheeky bastards.

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 01:47 PM

Homeless -

Those insulting error messages are because Mickey thinks users are all idiots and is "trying to speak your language." Idiots often do that.

We run Win2K on one machine, and have never lost anything that was already on the hard drive due to a power drop. (We did lose two modems to a lightning strike that entered via the 'phone line through dual surge protectors a few years back - but even then the hard drive data was ok.)

Anything changes to an open file, not saved when the power drops will be lost, back to the last save, which is why there's the autosave frequency setting in each Office program; but once it's written to the drive it should NOT be affected just by losing power. Autosave itself will not overwrite a file that already exists on the drive, although when it pops up with "which version do you want to save" it can be rather confusing to decide which one you really want.

The connection settings that appear to have been lost should have been safely recorded on the hard drive and should not have changed due to a power drop.

Often, after an ABEND (Abnormal End of Program - geek speak) the first restart of Windows may be "abnormal." It appears that the run of ScanDisk may affect loading of other normal programs. (With Win2K a boot after the ABEND can take a very long time, and can be especially "quirky," but Win2K is notorious for it's slow boot.) The first step should always be to reboot - repeatedly, within reason, if necessary - until the system "comes up clean," before making a lot of changes.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: pavane
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 06:10 PM

It was definitely related to the power-down, and several reboots did not affect the problems. I still cannot run IE, but am managing with Netscape. I will try opening HTML later.

The problem is NOT with getting an IE connection. IE crashes, and Norton Crashguard reports an access violation

Iexplore.exe caused fault #c000000005 in MSHTML.DLL etc
caused by about.blank -

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Jun 04 - 06:51 PM

Looks like MSHTML.DLL is corrupted - that sort of thing happens to me...

With Win95, Win98, Win98SE, I have experienced such 'bit rot' - with BSOD, or other hangups that can only be recovered from by the reset button or power off/on. On reboot, open files are 'corrupted'. The interesting thing is just how many basic 'read only' OS files seem to have been opened in 'write' mode... comments by JohnInKansas above about certain files being unable to be corrupted by an unexpected 'hard shutdown' assume that 'read only' DLL's etc are never opened in 'write' mode....

But this is MickeySoft we are talking about - I've never been impressed by their quality control - any company who boast about programming staff being encouraged to paint their windows black, remove the light bulbs and put sand on the floor, is obviously just missing the main points somewhere... never seemed to understand the concept of 'graceful degradation'....

*********

Then that damn insulting message appears, pretending that it was MY fault... some people might call that fraud...

Robin

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: Homeless
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 11:37 AM

John, I don't want to sound belligerent, but this, "but once it's written to the drive it should NOT be affected just by losing power," is simply not true. Okay, it is, but the operative word is "should."

"Anything (sic) changes to an open file, not saved when the power drops will be lost," I'm not referring to what is in memory. I'm speaking specifically about the hard drive. And not user files, but app and system level files. If a file (meaning anything that appears in the file allocation or file system table) is open, regardless of RO or RW mode, it is at risk if you drop power without a clean shutdown. On reboot, there is a chance that what is in the TOC doesn't match the pointers on the drive, and scandisk will convert those files to "system recovery files" - FILE000?.CHK. I'm not saying that this will happen every time, but it's has happened often enough to me. Open the recov file in a text editor and you can see (if you know the file format, or search for comments) what the file used to be.

If you'd like, next time I have this happen I'll send you the recovery files.

I agree with you fully - any written file, especially read only, should be safe from a crash. But I've had losing system files happen often enough to know that what should and what is are two different things.

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 12:43 PM

Be warned if going to Opera that the "free" Opera is ad-supported so if you run Ad-Aware you are likely to have fresh probs.

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Jun 04 - 06:53 PM

What Homeless said - with bells on!

Robin

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: pavane
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 05:35 PM

So how to restore MSHTML.DLL?

Can it just be copied, or is it one of those which is always 'in use' and can't be overwritten? Maybe boot DOS and do it?

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 06:02 PM

Some, but not all, .dll files will "recreate" themselves if you just "delete" the file and then open something that uses them. Don't just delete, but change the file extension (.dkk?) and see if a new file appears. Change it back if you don't get a good replacement that way. (If Windows will let you change the name, the file's probably not in use.)

A "Safe Mode" boot doesn't connect network stuff in most Windows versions, so wouldn't seem likely to load an html .dll. You might try that first if it won't let you change the file in normal Windows mode; but a DOS boot should let you write a replacement if other methods don't work - if you've got a replacement file.

If you have .cab files on your machine, they may be the original installation source files, so you may be able to find a replacement there. (You will likely need to look up how to search and extract in the .cab files. It varies somewhat with Win versions.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: pavane
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 04:38 AM

I do currently have the win98 SE cab files, since I just reinstalled from them. I will try that. Of course, the fault might be elsewhere and just not recognised until the DLL gets called!
Thanks
Neil

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 07:56 AM

In the intended operation for Windows, when a file on the hard drive is opened, the only change to the original file that is written on the hard drive is to set the "file open" bit. The file must be copied to RAM, and/or to temp file pages to be used. If there is a power off, or other ABEND, the original file remains on the hard drive, untouched with the exception of the "file open" marker.

"Pages" of file fragments in temp files on the drive and in RAM are monitored by the memory manager in RAM. Specific parts of the individual files are moved around in RAM, and in temp space on the hard drive, by the memory manager, during operation of the programs. Only the memory manager "knows" which clusters belong to which page of temp memory, and which pages belong to which program, and the memory manager "lives" only in RAM and temp pages.

Nothing should be written back to the original file on the hard drive except when the file is closed, or in response to a specific "Save" action. The Save may be one that you command, or may be an intended Windows process, but the original file is meant to be, and generally is, "untouchable" during the program run.

In the event of a power drop, the memory manager (in RAM and/or in temp pages) will be lost, so the temp "pages" of memory will be unidentifiable. The lost clusters found by Scan Disk will be "copies" of program information from the original program files, so they will be identifiable as "being from" specific files. Since they should be only copies of information that is still safely in the original file, there is no need to attempt to restore these fragments, and the usual procedure is simply to discard them.

Part of the function of Scan Disk includes synchronising the "file open" markers in files needed, and closing files that are marked open but are not found in RAM/temp at the reboot. The secondary function of Scan Disk is, if you let it "fix errors automatically," to discard all the "lost clusters." Scan Disk itself does NOT attempt, and is not able to, "reassemble" any files from the "lost clusters." There shold never be any need for it to do so, since the original program files are not intended to be affected except for marking them open (to control what other processes can use them) and to read copies of them to RAM and temp.

A "lost cluster" is still an "in use" cluster, as far as the hard drive is concerned, so nothing can be written to that cluster unless Scan Disk is permitted to "discard" it. Accumulation of too many "lost clusters" can significantly reduce available drive space, and since they are usually in Windows Temp space, they can seriously hinder proper Windows operation if not deleted. This is particularly critical for Win95/Win98/Win98SE and to some extent for the obsolete NT4 which require contiguous free space on the system drive for temp paging. ONE lost cluster in the middle of the reserved TEMP space can severely reduce the available TEMP space.

It should be noted that the critical synchronising of what's open and what's not open may not be completed until the machine completes a normal shutdown and reboot after Scan Disk has done it's thing. This is why any boot that invokes Scan Disk should be followed immediately by a reboot, before any additional "corrections" are attempted. Rarely, an additional reboot or two may be needed before startup is "fully normal."

Notoriously in Win95, fairly often in Win98, but rarely with later Windows versions, if you are running with seriously inadequate RAM and/or insufficient temp space for all the memory paging, Windows may "page direct" to an original file. In this case, commentors are correct that some files may be corrupted by a power drop. The presence of fragments from a program file, though, is not by itself evidence that the file was corrupted or that any "restoration" is needed. Most lost clusters should be from "lost copies" of the original files, not parts of the original files themselves.

The .dll files are something of a special case, since many of these are created and/or modified by the programs themselves during program operation. In many cases, removing the "bad file" (by changing the file extension to .dkk or something similar, so you can put it back if needed) will allow the program to create a new .dll the next time you run it. Since these files are commonly edited "on the fly" during program operation, they do seem more likely to be corrupted by a power drop, and occasionally may just "disappear."

Quite a few .dll files that Windows programs need are not created when you install Windows. They will be created when the program or process that needs them is run for the first time. If an old, and corrupted, copy of the .dll is already on the disk when you do the Windows installation, as when you do an "overlay installation" without uninstalling an old Windows version and deleting any "leftovers," it will not be removed or replaced by the Windows install, and the program will attempt to use the corrupted file instead of creating a new one. This is one main reason why just "reinstalling Windows" often doesn't fix things completely.

Note that a few .dll files are created by Windows install, and/or by addition of other programs or hardware. These "preinstalled" ones often will NOT recreate themselves if deleted. Changing the file extension has the same effect as removing the file, and it can be changed back if no new one appears. Since these "preinstalled" .dll files are seldom modified during operation, the likelihood of corruption is much less than for the "changeable" ones.

Fully compliant Windows programs will usually operate as described. For "legacy" programs that require direct access to the hard drive, the old DOS "if it's open it's gone" rules may apply. Such programs generally will NOT run on later versions of Windows, or if they run in "compatibility" mode, direct disk access is prevented but "emulated" for them, so loss of program files should be rare. Win98/98SE does permit direct drive access in some cases, for noncompliant programs, so file loss with programs of this kind may be fairly common. Note that providing direct drive access for a noncompliant program may put all other data – from other programs – on the drive at risk of corruption, so more general file loss is a risk of running nonconforming programs if the "nonconformance" is due to direct drive access.

On a machine running Windows compliant software, with adequate RAM and Temp space, a simple power interruption should almost never cause loss of files, with the exception of anything in RAM that has not been saved. The exception to this is ONLY when a WRITE process has been started and cannot be completed due to the power loss. Since system files could be in the process of an update, it is possible to have file corruption by a power loss; but most writes to file are quite brief, and happen only occasionally, so the likelihood of losing data in this manner is quite low, unless you're running a dirty machine or are just incredibly unlucky.

Because most modern hard drives are buffered – sometimes with fairly large amounts of buffer memory, it is true that sometimes a "save" may not be completely written to the hard drive immediately, and in that case you may also lose a small amount of data due to a power off. This was a problem with WinXP, because it can shut down very rapidly; but if you have applied available system updates you will have installed a "delay" in the shutdown process so that the buffer memory can be "flushed" in the event of normal shutdowns and most power off situations.

A complete COPY of every program and process that is open exists in RAM and/or as temp pages on the hard drive. Lost clusters found by Scan Disk are invariably lost COPIES of fragments of the program. Throw them away.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 10:00 AM

Thanks, John, all very well & good.

But I have lost - especially in Win95 & Win98 (orig), system files several times - some so critical that I have needed to do a reinstall - and believe me I don't do a reinstall untill I have tried several normal reboots.

Trust me - I'm a Software Engineer - That's a Joke Son!***

And I have also gotten persistent errors, which only went away with rebuilds, etc - one was with JS (which only started occurring after a BSOD 'hardware button' reboot) - which was only fixed by finding anything that had any remote connection with JS, deleting it manually and reloading JS... (ununstalls & reinstalls refused to fix it.)

Robin
*** I suppose I COULD explain it, but I'm sure someone else can tell the three engineers in a car joke better than me...

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: Homeless
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 10:58 AM

John, I was running W2K with a gig of memory and I always kept at least 5 gig free on the drives (of 60 gig, total). Other than outlook and IE, about all I ever ran was Photoshop and Bryce.
So am I reading what you wrote above correctly, to believe I should *not* let scan disk convert the lost clusters?

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 11:26 AM

Foolestroupe -

The last time I can remember a confirmed loss of anything from a power drop was with Win95, so I do know that it can happen there. I can recall several back in WWG3.11 days. Even with Win95, you can usually get the system cleaned up so that it's not a common thing; but especially with Win95 there may be good reasons for having lots of utilities and marginal programs; and the more "junk" (not necessarily a derogatory term) you have the more likely you are to get "abnormal" behaviour.

I can also recall a couple of "puzzlers" with Win98, where I don't think I ever did confirm what actually happened. At the time it was simpler just to do a "fix" (bigger hammer style) and charge on. I don't recall having even a "possible" file loss with Win98SE, from a power drop, after I got a more generous RAM installation and reorganized my drive space (added a third HD for data to get more room on the system partition).

For business reasons, I've been forced to keep "clean" machines and avoid uncertified software for several years, and it's probably helped me to have a "better experience" than many users. There have been times when I've thought I sort of missed having to probe around in the system; but it doesn't take too much reflection to recognize there are advantages in being boring.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 12:34 PM

Homeless:

Back in DOS days I worried a lot about all those lost clusters that Scan Disk found. I never did figure out anything useful to do with them. With Windows, you may be assured that a lost cluster is from a COPY of a file, and was never part of the "permanent" file on the hard drive. Had you done a normal shutdown, those lost clusters would have been deleted. Let Scan Disk "automatically fix errors," and delete them.

(The exception might be if you dumped a text document that hadn't been saved, and might be able to print enough of the pieces to remind yourself how to rewrite it. Spreadsheet or Database files usually aren't worth the trouble.)

Even if lost clusters might, in rare circumstances, have been part of a "good" file, there's no practical way to reassemble them. You're much better off just getting a replacement file from your installation disks than messing with the lost ones, in the rare cases where that might be needed.

DELETE THEM - or better, just let Scan Disk delete them. They're useless. If they accumulate, they're harmful.

Re your free space:

With a single 60 GB drive, 5 GB isn't really much free space. It barely meets the "spec" requirement (10% free) to be able to do a successful defrag.

When a program fires up, a complete copy of all the files that are needed must be made in RAM+Temp. An equal (approximately) amount of temp space may be needed for memory manager's page swapping, since it has to write a new copy in temp before it deletes the old one in temp. Even with 1 GB RAM, Win2K itself probably uses a at least some space in temp pages on the drive, and Photoshop is a pretty big hog as well.

With Win2K, Ctl-Alt-Del and select task manager, then click the "Processes" tab, and you can look at what's loaded. (In WinXP Ctl-Alt-Delete just opens task manager, usually, so you don't have to select it.) For the "conservative view" do it with your normal "maximum load" of programs open. Add them all up and multiply by 2 to get the "rule of thumb" how much free space you should have in the System (C:\) partition to run your programs. (You may need more to run some maintenance services, like defrag.) It's only a rough guide, but at least it's a guide.

Windows can't use the free space anywhere except on the "System Partition" very well. With Win2K I believe I've seen that you can temp on another partition, but it's NOT a recommended practice. Even if you do set up to use another drive/partition, all the temp space has to be in the same partition to do any good.

I'd frankly be concerned if the System partition (C:\) got too much below 10 GB free with Win2K, since a single photo edit session can easily generate another couple of GB. I might start to worry quite a lot with anything less than about 5 GB on the System partition with Win2K or WinXP. (Especially running Photoshop.)

Your 6 GB free should be good enough if it's all in C:\, but if it's split among several partitions you could be a little low.

There are quite a few Win2K machines in use with 20 GB total C:\ drives, so obviously I'm a little fussy. I just took a look and see that SWMBO's Win2K machine is down to 7.13 GB free (on a 20 GB drive), so I guess I'm "worried" it's probably time for the IT department (me) to do some maintenance. (I got her a 120 GB external drive so she could move data off some time ago, when she got to about 4 GB free and things started balking; but I can't seem to get her to remember it's there.)

I've run my WinXP down to about 2 GB free on the 120 GB C:\, but there was a very noticeable deterioration in performance well before I got there - and quite a bit before Photoshop Elements froze.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Jun 04 - 09:50 PM

Well explained John.

'Let Scan Disk "automatically fix errors," and delete them.'

I used to delete those files regularly, cause I was hoping that I would be able to use them to recover text work in progress.

'Even if lost clusters might, in rare circumstances, have been part of a "good" file, there's no practical way to reassemble them.'

The "good file" would have been the temp copy of the current (unsaved) open file being edited. I used to open each fragment and copy and paste then play "jigsaw". When Word crashed, the resulting mess from the clusters was usually almost impossible to thread back together, because of the messy way Word stores files with past versions and modifications. NotePad was not very useful, that's why I use other utilities. But I save regularly enough now, so I just let the defragger delete them.

But it still doesn't excuse writing to shared (DLL) files... I thought that stopped when the KL-10s died... :-)

Robin

Subject: RE: Tech: How to Restore Internet Explorer??
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 04:57 AM

The handling of .dll files in Windows is a little "shady." There doesn't seem to be much public documentation on exactly what, and how, Windows uses them. The info is probably in the "programmers help" in some of the assistance groups, but that's a little past my range of interest.

Way back in Word 3.0, WWG3.11 days, I learned to turn off the "Allow Fast Saves" in Word. A "Fast Save" doesn't change the basic document, it just adds the "changes" to the trailer portion of the file. With "Fast Save" turned off, every save rewrites the entire file, all fully formatted. With early versions of Word, it wasn't uncommon to get a "file corruption" in a document, which you corrected by copying everything except the last carrieage return and pasting into a new document. All the "pointers to changes" saved in the "trailer" portion of the file - where the corruption always happened - are "associated with" that last carriage return, so by omitting it, you get a "clean" document back - even if you lose a few of the last edits.

With early versions of Word, it was almost standard to enable the "always make backup," so that each save would be a new document, and the previous version would stay in place with a .bak file extension. Newer versions are reliable enough that I don't bother with the backups. With Office XP (Word 2000 & Later), file recovery after an ABEND is good enough that I don't worry too much. It's not perfect, but I haven't had a "significant" loss in quite a while.

A "peculiarity" in newer versions is that Word often doesn't close the temp files for individual documents when you close the document. The temps only close when you exit Word. That means that a power drop with Word open, even with no documents up, can leave a temp file for every document you worked during that Word session. The next time you open Word, it may "recover" all those documents that you saved and closed, because it finds "open" temp files for them. Mildly annoying sometimes, but you can't argue with being "really careful."

John