Origin: Greenland Fisheries

Subject: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: Earl
Date: 13 Oct 98 - 04:24 PM

I am looking for information on the song "Greenland Fisheries." Does anyone know if it is based on an actual event?

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: Jennifer Burdoo
Date: 13 Oct 98 - 05:03 PM

I doubt it is. For one thing, there are at least half-a-dozen versions of the date, but in general it sounds like the story of a "typical" whaling cruise. Every whaling ship was bound to lose a few crew members once in a while -- it was a hazardous job.

Jennifer

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: Barbara
Date: 13 Oct 98 - 05:39 PM

Earl, the song is in the database. Enter the name in brackets [Greenland Fisheries] in the box upper right, and it should come right up.
Blessings,
Barbara
or maybe someone with more skill will come along and turn this into a clickable link (click here).

Who would do a thing like that, Barbara?

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: Dan Keding
Date: 13 Oct 98 - 05:43 PM

Earl, Check out the book "Songs the Whalemen Sang" by Gale Huntington. There is a very early version from England that dates back to 1784 and names the ship as "The Lion". I doubt very much if it is based on any one incident but it could be a broadside or a variant of one based on several topical songs of the day. Who knows?? Could be the last gasp story of the dying captain or it could come from the fertile mind of some ballad monger. Hope this helps. The above mentioned book is excellent. Also check out the book "Songs of the Sailor and Lumberman" by William Doerflinger. Dan

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: Barry Finn
Date: 13 Oct 98 - 07:06 PM

If not based of a singular event it certainly was not uncommon to lose men off a whale boat..In 1890 the Essex (the basis for Moby Dick) lost all but 8 men after being ramed by a whale. In 1828 the Courier lost a full whale boat crew by being taken under by a whale. In 1831 the Honqua recovered a man lost overboard but in the rescue lost the 2nd & 3rd mate & 4 other crew. From the bark Franklin, in 1832, Captain Brock & all his boats' crew were lost while fast to a whale. These are remarks from the Report Of Commissioner Of Fish & Fisheries of vessels sailing only out of New England waters. Barry

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: O'Boyle
Date: 14 Oct 98 - 01:41 AM

To add to Dan Keding's comments above; In "Songs of the American Sailormen," Joanna C. Colcord says about the song:
"'Greenland Fishery' or "The Whale' was not more popular on whaling ships than in the ships of the merchant marine. It arose in the British, not the American, whaling trade, probably in the latter part of the eighteenth century, and in the earlier British versions, the ship's name, the Lion, and the captains's, Speedicut, are both preserved."

I've never seen or heard the versions that mention Captain "Speedicut", but I love the name.

Rick

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Oct 98 - 01:55 AM

There are several versions of the song in our database. Search for #321 and you'll find them.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: Earl
Date: 14 Oct 98 - 08:11 AM

Thanks everyone. I have another question. In some versions the captain grieves more over losing the whale than over losing the men, vice versa in others. I'm sure it would depend on the captain but which response was more likely?

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: Dan Keding
Date: 14 Oct 98 - 01:06 PM

More likely, since a portion of the captain's wages as did the crew's came from how much whale oil they brought back, he was grieving the loss of the whale. Sailors were a cheap commodity in those days.

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: Bruce O.
Date: 14 Oct 98 - 04:56 PM

In the Traditional Ballad Index (in Mucdat's LINKS] there's a note saying that Lloyd cited a broadside edition issued before 1725, but I don't know what Lloyd book that is in. I don't see it in 'Folksong in England'.

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: Bruce O.
Date: 14 Oct 98 - 05:06 PM

Steve Roud's broadside index lists some broadsside copies, but none seem to be as old as the 18th century. 1837 seems to be the oldest confirmable date for any of these.

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: Barry Finn
Date: 14 Oct 98 - 10:44 PM

Hi Bruce, in Lloyds' notes on his LP "Leviathan" (Topic), he has "The Greenland Whale Fishery" around 1725 as a London broadside. No one else has it before 1784. He also says the song is from the Spitsbergen, Greenland right whale industry which the Brittish really didn't become a major competitor of the Dutch & Basque whalers until 1724 (maybe it went straight to the top of the hit parade). Then by the time others give it's date the Brittish whale industry shifted towards the sperm whale, around the 1790's, off the coast of Chile to the Marquesas. About the turn of the century the hunting grounds were wide spread throughout the Pacific with much of it focused in the Arctic. About 1820 the hunt started to again focus around Greenland, as the 40's approched the Brittish whaling fleet was at it's lowest while Schotland's (the Balaena, the Diamond, the Rattler , the Resolution) was on the rise, so who knows where the song really fit in.
As to the value of a sailor/whaler over the value of a whale, one less (or 4 less as the case may be) share to cut up amongst the crew, how bad could that be? The price of sperm oil could go between $1.00-$1.50 per gal, whale oil around .50 per gal & whale bone between .10 - .50 a LB.so 2-3000 barrels of sperm oil & 2-3000 barrels of whale oil + 5-10,000 LB of bone would be a fair voyage.
I can't imagine that the stinking, foul, wet, drafty, cramped confined quaters would bring out the best in a tired, sick, hungry, underdressed whaler. Oh, excuse me Captain your southwester blew over the side bring the ship around while I dive in after it or pardon me my good messmate, you've been up all night on watch here let me get up & offer you my seat while you feast. I can only think that the crew at best were walking fuses held off only by the lure of money & the threat of the cat. Mutiny was not uncommon on whalers. Excuse I have some fish on the stove. Barry

Subject: Greenland Whale Fisheries
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Mar 01 - 04:59 PM

Copied from another thread.
-Joe Offer-

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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: where the Lazy Murray River Rolls al
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 15-Mar-01 - 02:10 AM

Joe Offer, I'd be glad to do all those things that you suggest, when I get the lyric, If I knew what the hell you were talking about. I'm new to this electronic marvel, I love it, but I'm not really literate in Computereze. But then I suppose not too many of you are square rig sailing lingo. I bend over backwards to understand what "fore & afters" and landlubbers are saying, (Unlike some hard-asses), and without being snotty about it I try to put things in their language. I hope youll do the same for me. What's a thread? & how does one resirrect it? I know how to cut a frayed piece out of a rope or sampson braid and then splice it back together again, but I don't know how to resurrect a thread. (yes it is "Rope" and not "Line" as the US Navy calls the stuff) (there I go getting snotty) They have a good reason for calling it "line" which I'll explain if your curious. What's a "filter on the forum menu? Put "murray" in what box? Do you think he'll mind? and I haven't a clue how to set any age at all.
You help me out here and I'll "put right" whatever "funny lines" I come across in your Maritime folk songs and Chanteys (two different things entirely) For instance, In the "Greenland Whale Fisheries", the third verse should read OUR CAPTAIN WAS PACING THE QUARTERDECK, A BRAVE LITTLE MAN WAS HE. (up to here, anything similar will do) OVERHAUL, OVERHAUL, YOUR DAVIT TACKLE (pronounced,"take-uhl, from "take all") FALL, AND LOWER YOUR BOATS FOR THE SEA, BRAVE BOYS, LOWER YOUR BOATS FOR THE SEA (I'll understand you if you say "tackle, as in football") Tackles are made up of blocks and falls. I suppose everyone knows what a block is. chunks of wood with pulley wheels set into them through which the rope moves. The "Fall" is the Rope that goes through them. One block (usually the top one) is fixed in position In this case on the davits from which the whaleboats are hung. the other block is attached to the load (the boat) and moves. when the fall, which come out of the tackle and is belayed on a cleat or belaying pin, is hauled on, the load is raised as the blocks come together. When a tackle is "overhauled, the fall is eased into the tackle and the load lowers as the blocks move apart. Sometimes, the falls are helped along when the load is lowered, by pulling on the falls in between the blocks,thereby helping the tackle to "overhaul". This is also called "overhauling" There are many different types of davits, the ones used on most whalers was a simple one that looks like two inverted "U"s with one leg firmly attached to the vessel, which swivels in a socket, and with a davit tackle hanging from the other leg. These are in sets of two. The whaleboat is swung out over the side, and the davit tackles are overhauled thereby lowering the boat. O.K.?

There's a drink called a "block and fall," it's 151 rum and lime juice. You walk one block, and fall.

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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: where the Lazy Murray River Rolls al
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15-Mar-01 - 03:12 AM

Hi, Yankee - Sounds like you might be well off to visit the Mudcat FAQ - Newcomer's Guide (click here). It's the first on the list of threads (topics) on the discussion forum menu page. I spent a lot of time designing the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Guide, and I think it would help you a lot if you were to read the first four messages there. We try to make the Mudcat easy to use, but it does help if people read the directions.
As for "Greenland Whale Fisheries, I guess I'd agree that "tackle" shouldn't be "tackles" - but it's a true, traditional folk song, and there are many ways to sing 'em. "Greenland Whale Fisheries" has been assigned Digital Tradition identification number 321. If you put #321 in the blue search box, you'll find several versions of this song.

Hope that helps.
-Joe Offer-

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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: where the Lazy Murray River Rolls al
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 15-Mar-01 - 03:52 AM

Joe Offer. (here I go getting snotty again) Apparrently you didn't pay attention to what you were reading. The way you have all the versions just doesn't make sense. What on Earth could it mean to "let your davit tackles fall"? i SAY AGAIN. tackles (pronounced, "Take-uhl" from "Take all" and not "tac-uhl" as in football) are made up of blocks and falls. The fall is the rope part. "Fall" is a NOUN, NOT A VERB. "Overhaul " is the opposite of "Haul". When you overhaul a davit
tackle , You let the fall (noun) run through the tackle , thereby lowering the bloody whaleboat. That's the opposite of "hauling on the davit tackle fall (noun). when you haul on the damned thing you lift the whaleboat into the davit. Got it? Now I'll read the thing that you wanted me to. So the Line should read, OVERHAUL, OVERHAUL, YOUR DAVIT TACKLE FALL (noun) AND LOWER YOUR BOATS FOR THE SEA, BRAVE BOYS, LOWER YOUR BOATS FOR THE SEA.

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Subject: Greenland Whale Fisheries
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15-Mar-01 - 04:47 AM

Point well taken, Yankee, but this is a thread about the Murray River. If you want to talk about "Greenland Whale Fisheries," put Greenland in the filter box on the main page and set the age way beck to 3 years. My point was that there are various versions of "Greenland Whale Fishery" in the Digital Tradition database, and in various songbooks - some have "let your davit tackles fall" (as recorded by Judy Collins); and others have it the way you suggested, which does seem to make more sense. My Webster's New World Dictionary says the nautical pronunciation of "tackle" is as you say, TAKE-ul.
But it seems even more sensible to discuss "Greenland Whale Fisheries" in a thread (topic) that has to do with that particular song.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 15 Mar 01 - 05:08 PM

Well, when we find who wrote it, we'll find out if he/she was a sailor, and whether we can put any faith in the sea terminology.

Subject: ADD: The Greenland Whale Fishery (5)^^
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Mar 01 - 05:42 PM

I can't find mention of the "davit tackles" in earlier versions of the song. The earliest I could find was this version from an 1891 book, which says "overhaul, overhaul, your boat tackle fall."
-Joe Offer-

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THE GREENLAND WHALE FISHERY

We can no longer stay on shore,
Since we're so deep in debt,
So a voyage to Greenland we will go,
Some money for to get - brave boys.

Now when we lay at Liverpool
Our good like ship to man,
'Twas there our names were all wrote down,
And we're bound for Greenland - brave boys.

In eighteen hundred and twenty four,
On March the twenty third,
We hoisted our colours up to our Mast-head,
And for Greenland bore away - brave boys.

But when we came to Greenland,
Our good like ship to moor,
Oh, then we wished ourselves back again
With our friends upon the shore - brave boys.

The boatswain went to the mast head,
With his spy-glass in his hand,
Here's a whale, a whale, a whale, he cried,
And she blows on every spring - brave boys.

The Captain on the quarter deck,
(A very good man was he),
Overhaul, overhaul, your boat tackle fall,
And launch your boats to sea - brave boys.

The boats being launch'd, and the hands got in,
The whale fishes appeared in view,
Resolved was the whole boats' crew,
To steer where the whale fish blew - brave boys.

The whale being struck, and the whale paid on,
She gave a flash with her tail,
She capsized the boat, and lost five men,
Nor did we catch the whale - brave boys.

Bad news unto our Captain brought,
That we had lost the 'Prentice boys,
He, hearing of this dreadful news,
His colours down did haul - brave boys.

The losing of this whale, brave boys,
Did grieve his heart full sore,
But losing of his five brave men,
Did grieve him ten times more - brave boys.

Come, weigh your anchors, my brave boys,
For the winter star I see,
It's time we should leave this cold country,
And for England bear away - brave boys.

For Greenland is a barren place,
Neither light nor day to be seen,
Nought but ice and snow where the whale fish blow,
And the daylight seldom seen - brave boys.

Source: "Real Sailor Songs'" John Ashton, London, 1891 (1972 reissue)

DT #321
Laws K21
see also GREENLAN
@sailor @work @death @animal @whale
filename[ GRENFIS5
JRO
Apr01^^

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: GUEST,Pete M at work
Date: 15 Mar 01 - 07:00 PM

Hi Cranky yankee.

I think you may find there are more square rig sailors here than you think, but the essential point is that folks song, including shanties, do 'orrible things to both the English language and technical terminology to get a good metre and rhyme. As Bruce O points out there is no evidence that the original was penned by a seaman, and even if the phrase originally used was "overhaul your davit tackle fall' as you suggest; convention and usage take precedence, as in most things.

Pete M

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: Amos
Date: 15 Mar 01 - 08:23 PM

Oy! I always knew what a davit taykle fall was, but I always sang it "...overhaul on your davit tackle fall..." which makes a sense of its own. One does not "let" a davit tackle fall, but it has been known to happen rthat they have gone ahead sometimes and fallen anyway, usually leaving a bruised skull or chipped toebone in their wake. Can't expect Judy Collins to know anything bout them tayckles anyway.

A

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: David Coffin
Date: 15 Mar 01 - 09:31 PM

This thread was a fascinating read. I have a few pieces of information to add without going on at length. First, the Essex as Barry surely knows, was rammed in Nov. of 1820. (Look for a 2 hour NBC documentary in late August 2001 on the Essex with yours truly doing some of the trad. music) For a great read on this get In the Heart of the Sea by Nathaniel Philbrick. Also coming out this year is a book by Stuart Frank, Director of the Kendall Whaling Museum in Sharon MA. called Ballads and Songs of the American Sailor. I'm not allowed to quote from it (I signed a legal document saying I wouldn't) but it's got some great research and dates and comparisons of versions and ....

David

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 15 Mar 01 - 10:04 PM

Ashton's is like some on the Bodley Ballads website (titles- Greenland), but another version has the date 1823 in the first line. I suspect there are also copies there under other titles.

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 04:02 AM

Gloucesterman, you're wicked - I want that book NOW!!!!
Please remind us when the show is about to be broacast, and let us know when the book comes out.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 06:00 AM

Yes, Martha, there is intelligent life here

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 06:01 AM

Yes, Martha, there is intelligent life here

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 08:31 AM

Just bit of info in case anyone isn't aware of them: the Lloyds Lists (vessel movement, casualties, etc) are twice-weekly shipping publications and have been going from about 1662 onwards. They could prove useful if searching for facts on wrecks etc. There's a list of libraries that have copies here and more info on them is found here.

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 16 Mar 01 - 01:04 PM

Lloyd's started as a coffeehouse aimed for businessmen, but I haven't found out if they ever had music there.

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 17 Mar 01 - 06:56 PM

BRUCE O.

I' pretty sure the "Lloyd's" book referred to is about the very fine singer,A.L.LLOYD, and not the "Lloyd's of London, coffee house-shipping underwiters"

JENNIFER

Yes, whaling was a dangerous occupation, but, nowere near as dangerous as commercial fishing, which to this day is the most dangerous occupation there is. If any of you doubt this, just pick up a copy of this week's "National Fisherman",a weekly publication devoted to commercial fishing. Uner "COAST GUARD NEWS" you will find a list of those Lost at Sea, THIS WEEK. Because these losses occurred on the high seas, you usually dont find mention of them in Newspapers, unless you live in a fishing port. Of course the Newport Daily News, (Newport RI) carries stories about commercial fishing losses. But, this is so common, they only publish reports about vessels based in Rhode Island. My son David is a commercial fisherman. I wish he's find some other occupation, but like most of them, he loves his work. He once told me, "Theres something romantic about making your living at sea, and it's very satisfying to know that you are feeding people at a price they can afford". Most of us know that the reason for this loss of life is that fishermen "Fish 'til they drop", because the industry is operated on shares, and the sooner they fill their holds and get back inshore, the more money they make. sometimes they work a 20 hour day, with only an hours sleep every now and then. Tired, sleepy people get careless and make deadly mistakes.

DAN KEDING

Sailors are not, and never have been a cheap commodity. No matter how harsh the conditions, the loyalty of each man to his shipmates and ship, and the loyalty of a captain to his crew are very strong. This is the usual situation. The unusul is the one you read or hear about. Those who don't think that a crew is a very tight, very loyal group have never been to sea. GLOCESTERMAN, you know what I'm saying, don't you?

Pete M.

No, common usage does not take precedent if the common usage is wrong. Education and "Blowing ssmoke up their noses" are two very different things.

EVERYONE.

This song is very easy to follow through the "Folk Process" because in every version I've seen in print, the date is somewhere in the song. The one I sing starts off, "In eighteen hundered and sixty three, on June the 13th day", our gallant ship, her anchor weighed and for Greenland bore away BRAVE BOYS, for Greenland bore away. In my opinion, what the name of the ship is, when it was first written and how technical it gets take second fiddle to how good a song it is, how easy it is for the audience to understand (within the bounds of accuracy) and how much the singer enjoys singing it. In the 17th century English versions I've read the captain isn't too concerned about the loss of his crew and is much more distressed at the loss of money. As the song came across he Atlantic, the captains character changed dramatically. Which leads me to believe that the original version was made up by a landlubber, but, as seamen took the song as their own, The changes they made brought the song into the area of truth. and then there is ,ARS GRATIA ARTIS. Art for the sake of art. So now where are we?

Love and kisses to all.

Jody Gibson Square rig Boatswain, chanteyman and rigger.

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 17 Mar 01 - 11:43 PM

Fibula brought in Lloyd's Lists. As for A. L. Lloyd, I met him at the 1976 Smithsonian Folks Festival, and, since we had previous contact, (through FMJ) he generously posed for a picture. It's a color one, and I don't have a scanner to so I could show it to you, but it's one of the best shots that I ever got.

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: Noreen
Date: 18 Mar 01 - 02:10 PM

Cranky Yankee, I agree with you. If common usage is 'wrong', meaning that the song make no sense, I would much rather be corrected, even if well-known respected people have been singing the accepted version all their lives. The folk process is not an excuse for singing rubbish: I like to know and understand what I'm singing about. What's the point otherwise?

Noreen

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 20 Mar 01 - 07:14 AM

Yup, I meant Lloyds List as in "Lloyds of London", in a comment completely unrelated to A. Lloyd. I spent several months reasearch going through a couple of hundred years worth of these and they are fascinating.
The Penguin Book of English Folk Song (with A. Lloyd as one of the editors) states,as mentioned before, that this song is quite old, a form of it having been published as a blackletter ballad before 1725.

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 01 Apr 01 - 05:35 PM

I've gone back to the books, and, it appears that the more the song was sung, the better it got. As I said previously, it's easy to follow this one through the Folk Process because the date is right in there, usually in the first line. (Serious Students of the "folk process" please take note).Sometimes I piece together my own version to (as the "self-service taylor" advised) suit myself. Boat tackles vs davit tackles who cares? My point being that "fall" in this case is a noun not a verb.
boats are carried in any of several different ways. On whalers, the whale boats were hung on davits so they could be lowered "right away". The "upside down Roman alphabet letter, J," being a very simple, very effective type of davit. The square topsail schooner, "Shenandoah" out of Vineyard Haven, Mass. carries two "Pea Pod" pulling boats, one on each side in this manner. It also carries a "Yawl Boat", with a large Deisel engine, on a different type of davit, over the stern, as a lot of ships do. The "engineless" "Shenandoah" uses this yawl boat as their own little tugboat. (as did "Bill of Rights" ) Rose, finally gave up and had two HUGE inboard diesels installed. Carrying a large pulling boat "inboard" as HMS Rose does, can be a real "Pain" when you want to put it overboard. Not for some people, though.
Donna and I worked with the "set crews" on the movie, "The Man Without a Country". "Rosie" (securelly tied up near the Goat Island causeway) was used as one of the ships in the story. They needed to do a night shot, the one where "The Hero" and Beau Bridges are strolling about the main deck mumbling something or other, but the lights of the Newport Bridge got in the way. So, I suggested (which was one of the reasons I was here) that we hang the longboat over the rail and block out the bridge lights. WELL, as I stood there, mouth wide open in wonder and amazement, the set riggers had that longboat up and over the quarterdeck's port rail in a flat 20 seconds or so. I never got that thing over the side in less than 5 minutes. AND THEY CALLED ME SUPERRIGGER . (Cliff Robertson pl;ayed "the hero", I couldn't think of his name previously) < Working on this movie set completely reversed all my previously (and stupidly) conceived opinions about Hollywood Movie Makers. I found them to actually be very hard working, conscientious, faithfull to their spouses people who started working at the crack of dawn went on as long as it was practical and then went home to their wives and families until the following "crack of dawn". In the previously described scene, Cliff Robertson was non-challantly strolling about on a very painful broken ankle which he had injured the day before (when he didn't have any scenes to do) playing tennis. In betweeen shots, he was laid out in the ships "Great cabin" with his ankle iced and grimmacing in pain. I quitly sat in the corner in case there was something I could do for him. He walked through rehersals on crutches but, of course, he couldn't use the crutches during the actuall shooting. The amazing thing about all this was that, IT WAS THE SORT OF THING THAT EVERYONE EXPECTED. I guess that this sort of situation is not uncommon among filmmakers. He never once suggested, nor did anyone else, that they delay shooting until his ankle could be properly casted by an orthopedic surgeon. He had worked that afternoon on the "gundeck scene". where it appears that he's calling out orders to the guncrews, he's actually yelling from the pain. If you ever see this movie, look carefully and you'll see one of the extras in the scene crying out loud in sympathy, with tears rolling down his face. This actually added to the scene because there was no actual dialog, the scene was shot silently and the battle noises were dubbed in. I know this extra, he's a commercial fisherman and I know he's seen pain before. Incidentally, this was not "Rose's" gun deck, it was entirely constructed in about three hours inside the gymnasium of the old "DeLasale Accademy", by the set carpenters.
I liked every single person connected with this movie. The "Art director" a woman, was in charge of designing the various studio sets, and putting in the "Canned" battle scenes, was a stickler for accuracy, which a lot of movie makers are not. She would show me a script portion and ask me what the two ships would be doing in "this situation", and then she'd get the right canned footage. I swear, by the end of my association with this movie she knew more about 19th century warship handling and ship design and rigging, than a lot of shellbacks I've known.
Donna and I were hired, originally, to construct a "for the camera", a section of standing rigging that could be hung up in a matter of minutes. I said that I only knew how to do the real thing . She said that was exactly what she required. So Donna and I drove some stakes into the ground outside the gym and rigged a tree. They furnished all the necessary "Stuff" got the deadeye blocks from the "Block Shop" in Lunenburg, Nova Scotia, as I suggested, and using "polypropelyn" rope instead of Hemp, wormed,parcelled and served the "19th century" shrouds and backstays, seized in the upper deadeyes, put hooks around the lower deadeyes which we hooked onto the stakes, rigged the deadeye laniards,got the proportions right and marked, whipped the ends, seized on the iron sheer pole, took the whole thing down, moved inside the gym and stretched it out on the gymnasium deck. Then when we were told that they needed the finished set for the next day's shooting, we were prety tired, so, we called up Jimmy Cagney Jr. ( who was not connected with the movie industry at that time) a fellow folksinger and sailor, and we spent all night at the very tedious task of seizing on the ratlines. It so that we were very nearly completely exhausted. Donna would put an eye splice in the rope we were using while Jimmy and lay down on a gun carriage, then one of us would seize that end of the finished ratline to the t'gallant backstay, put in the clove hitches across to the forward main shroud, while Donna lay down on a gun carriage. Then, when we got to the main shroud, Donna would get up, measure and cut the rope, put in the other eye splice, start a new ratline and wake up the oither guy who would do the next set of seizings and clove hitches while Donna rested.
we got the job done just as the crew started showing up the next morning. Then we walked home. (For those of you who are familiar with Newport) We lived on Battery St, on the other side of town, about three blocks from the bridge and Navy base. At about "Washington Square" this dog showed up and escorted us home, mostly running ahead and showing us the way. (we were REALLY tired and sleepy) When we got to Battery street, he ran up onto the porch, sratched at the front door AND DISAPPEARED. wE thought nothing of this at the time. we went to sleep (I hope to tellyou) and when we woke up the next day, we wondered what the Hell we'd just experienced.
continued on next thread, so I don't lose this.
Jody and Donna Gibson.

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 01 Apr 01 - 06:29 PM

continued.

The dog looked a lot like "the Tramp" in Lady and the Tramp.

CAN SOMEONE TEACH ME TO SAVE THIS STUFF ON A CD? It looks as if this forum is giving me the incentive to do something I've been wanting to do for some time, and that is to write a book.

They never did use the rigging, but they didn't throw it away either. They sent it to some storehouse and museum, I think in Rochester N.Y. that all the movie companies can check stuff out of and use. The paid us an obscene ammount of money for this. on the spot. A huge man named Peter Runfollow, put his very large arm around my relatively scrawney shoulder, kind of gave me a one armed hug , and, with his other hand gave me a check asking if this was o.k. I was amazed at the ammount and gulped, "Sure".
After the days shooting, Peter Straus, who was unmarried at the time, ate dinner and hung out with the set carpenters at the "Black Pearl Tavern" where I was also gainfully employed as a folk singer.
There were still a couple of days shooting to be done at Saratoga, N.Y. But they held their "Wrap Party" in Newport so Donna, Jimmy and I could attend. This one set carpenter, a short stocky guy who they nicknamed "The Godfather" (his name, as I recall) was Tony, a man of very few words, went over to the piano player, jabbed his forefinger in her direction, said, "YOU", then jerked his thumb towards the door, said, "OUT", handed me my guitar, said, "YOU", pointed at the microphone and said, "SING". WELL, coming from this lot it was high praise indeed. I was led to believe that Mr. Straus had orchestrated the whole deal.
What the Hell is this about anyway? oH YES, moving boats about and putting them in the water.
The version of "Greenland Whale Fisheries" that I sing is a bit shorter than some. I use the phrase "Davit tackle fall" simply because it fits the rhythm better. it is, indeed a "Boat tackle" Roger Sprung, who worked with me at the Black Pearl, came up with the idea of the whole group shouting, "Brave Boys", except for the last two verses. He also suggested we slow the tempo down to a crawl for the first two lines of the last verse, then, gradually come back up to speed, starting with the line, 'WHERE THERE'S ICE AND THERE'S SNOW AND THE WHALE FISHES BLOW". I didn't describe that accurately. Here's the version I sing (as suggested by Roger) with the shouted, BRAVE BOYS, all in caps, and the quiet ones in small letters.

Subject: Lyr Add: GREENLAND WHALE FISHERIES
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 01 Apr 01 - 07:17 PM

GREENLAND WHALE FISHERIES
I
In eighteen hundred and sixty four on June the thirteenth day
Our gallant ship, her anchor weighed
and for Greenland bore away BRAVE BOYS
For Greenland bore away.
II
The lookout stood at the crosstrees, a spyglass in his hand.
"There's a whale, there's a whale, there's a whalefish," he cried"
And she blows at every span, BRAVE BOYS
She blows at every span.
III
Our Captain was pacing the quarterdeck, a brave little man was he.
Overhaul, overhaul, on your davit tackle fall
And lower your boats for the sea, BRAVE BOYS.
Lower your boats for the sea.

(instrumental break, Roger if we're working together, me with guitar when I'm alone)
IV
The boats were launched with the crews on board, the whalefish well in view
Resolved was every seaman, bold

to steer where the whalefish blew, BRAVE BOYS,
To steer where the whalefish blew.
V
The harpoon struck and the rope paid out, but the whale gave a thunder with her tail
Our boat capsized and five sailors died
We never got that whale, brave boys,
We never got that whale.

VI
To lose that whale, our captain cried, it grieves my heart full sore
But, to lose five of my bully, bully crew,
Grieves me ten times more, brave boys
Grieves me ten times more.
(gradually slow to a crawl, starting with the second Grieves sme ten times more")
VII
Greenland is a dreadful place, where the land is never green
where ther's ice and there's snow

(start coming up to speed again, reaching full tempo on the line, "and daylight seldom seen, BRAVE BOYS)
And the whalefishes blow
And daylight seldom seen, BRAVE BOYS.
And daylight seldom seen.

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: CRANKY YANKEE
Date: 01 Apr 01 - 07:29 PM

Roger and I usually sing the last, slow verse, together. One time, which neither of us can explain, we sang

Where there's ice and there's snow and the gribble grobble grow, and daylight seldom seen

now, whenever we get a chance to work together again,we both get a funny gleam in our respective eyes as we try to anticipate if the other one is going to sing, GRIBBLE GROBBLE GROWS.. G'devening to all.
Jody and Donna Gibson.

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: IanC
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 07:08 AM

Just to add a little bit about Broadside versions, there are a 2 copies of the (same) broadside at The Bodleian Collection, both author and date unknown. One is here. From the typeface, it's clearly older than 1837.

Cheers!
Ian

Subject: Lyr Add: GREENLAND WHALE FISHERY (from Bodleian)
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 02:42 PM

The Bodleian has some ten broadsides (some duplicates), those with dating back to 1820. Here is one that varies somewhat from those in the DT or posted here.

GREENLAND WHALE FISHERY

In eighteen hundred and twenty-three,
On March the trenty-third.
We hoisted our colours up to our masthead,
And for Greenland bore away, brave boys,
And for Greenland bore away, brave boys.

But when we came unto Greenland,
Our good like ship to moor.
O then we wish'd ourselves back again,
With our friends upon the shore, brave boys,
With our etc.

The boatswain on the yard so high,
With his spyglass in his hand.
Here's a whale, here's a whale fish he cry'd,
And she blows at every spang, brave boys,
And she etc.

The captain on the quarter deck,
A very good man was he.
Over-haul, over-haul, your heavy tackle fall.
And launch your boats for sea, brave boys,
And launch etc.

The boats being launched and the hands got in,
And the whale fish appear'd in view,
Resolv'd was the whale boat's crew
To steer where the whale-fish blew, brave boys,
To steer etc.
The whale being struck, and the line paid out,
She gave a flash with her tail.
She capsiz'd the boar and we lost five men,
Nor did we catch the whale, brave boys,
Nor did etc.

Sad news, sad news, to our captain brought,
That we'd lost his 'prentice boys;
His hearing of this dreadful news,
His colours down did haul, brave boys,
His colours etc.

The losing of this whale, brave boys,
Did grieve his heart full sore.
But the losing of his five brave men,
Did grieve him ten times more, brave boys,
Did grieve etc.

Weigh anchor, weigh anchor, my brave jolly tars,
For the winter star I see.
It is time we should leave this cold country,
And for England bear away, brave boys,
And for England etc.

For Greenland is a barren place,
Neither light nor day to be seen.
Nothing but ice and snow where the whale-fish blow,
And the daylight's seldom seen, brave boys,
And the daylight etc.

Bodleian Ballads Catalogue 2806 c17(160), W. Armstrong, Liverpool, between 1820-1824, ballad on sheet.

Another sheet, "Greenland Whale Fishery," starts with the lines "We can no longer stay on shore, since we are all deep in debt," similar to one already posted. Johnson's ballads, 3195, between 1819 and 1844. printed by J. Pitts, London.

Another copy, "Greenland Fishery," starts with the date 1824 and the twenty-third of March, and goes on to name Captain John Page and his ship, Lion. Other verses are similar to those posted here from the Armstrong sheet. Harding B 11 (1420), printed in Bristol, no date, but printed with a minstrel song, Rosa May.

Subject: RE: Info req.: Greenland Fisheries
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 02:45 PM

I apologise for the false start. I hope some kind editor will delete. The position of the submit and clear buttons invite mistakes from the ham-handed.