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BS: Iraqi women and the Koran

George Papavgeris 30 May 04 - 06:32 AM
freda underhill 30 May 04 - 06:28 AM
John MacKenzie 30 May 04 - 05:35 AM
dianavan 30 May 04 - 12:24 AM
dianavan 29 May 04 - 10:17 PM
akenaton 29 May 04 - 09:08 PM
Peace 29 May 04 - 08:41 PM
DougR 29 May 04 - 08:22 PM
Don Firth 29 May 04 - 08:19 PM
akenaton 29 May 04 - 07:56 PM
akenaton 29 May 04 - 07:22 PM
Once Famous 29 May 04 - 06:52 PM
Don Firth 29 May 04 - 06:36 PM
McGrath of Harlow 29 May 04 - 06:19 PM
dianavan 29 May 04 - 06:08 PM
McGrath of Harlow 29 May 04 - 04:27 PM
GUEST 29 May 04 - 04:18 PM
Don Firth 29 May 04 - 03:36 PM
McGrath of Harlow 29 May 04 - 12:50 PM
freda underhill 29 May 04 - 12:32 PM
Jim McCallan 28 May 04 - 11:28 PM
dianavan 28 May 04 - 09:53 PM
McGrath of Harlow 28 May 04 - 06:32 PM
GUEST,Shlio 28 May 04 - 05:08 PM
Once Famous 28 May 04 - 04:46 PM
DougR 28 May 04 - 04:44 PM
Don Firth 28 May 04 - 04:35 PM
Once Famous 28 May 04 - 03:58 PM
Don Firth 28 May 04 - 03:41 PM
DougR 28 May 04 - 01:43 PM
McGrath of Harlow 28 May 04 - 01:38 PM
McGrath of Harlow 28 May 04 - 01:25 PM
Ellenpoly 28 May 04 - 01:00 PM
Once Famous 28 May 04 - 12:47 PM
greg stephens 28 May 04 - 03:15 AM
dianavan 27 May 04 - 11:53 PM
McGrath of Harlow 27 May 04 - 08:31 PM
dianavan 27 May 04 - 08:11 PM
greg stephens 27 May 04 - 06:23 PM
GUEST 27 May 04 - 05:33 PM
dianavan 27 May 04 - 01:29 AM
GUEST 27 May 04 - 12:53 AM
wilbyhillbilly 27 May 04 - 12:44 AM
mack/misophist 27 May 04 - 12:11 AM
dianavan 27 May 04 - 12:10 AM
McGrath of Harlow 26 May 04 - 07:03 PM
mg 26 May 04 - 06:02 PM
Once Famous 26 May 04 - 05:55 PM
McGrath of Harlow 26 May 04 - 01:49 PM
Wilfried Schaum 26 May 04 - 10:32 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 30 May 04 - 06:32 AM

Ignore, folks, ignore... A troll by any other name is still a troll. I said so in another thread and he/she-who-knows pretended he/she didn't notice. Sure he/she's disgusting, but then so are other things in life. Just step over it, not in it. If humans examined minutely every turd they meet on the way they'd never get anywhere. Leave such examination to lower life forms.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: freda underhill
Date: 30 May 04 - 06:28 AM

In countries where circumcision is not practised, it is customary to pull back the foreskin and wash the head of the penis after urination, and during showering/bathing. Yes there are good things to be said about circumcision, but there are also risks.

See http://www.fathermag.com/health/circ/horror/horror.shtml for statistics and references to risks. Some information includes:

Circumcision Surgery Accidents, Complications, and Atrocities
Journal of Urology (Baltimore), vol 153, no 3 part I (March 1995: pp 778-779) states that the rate of accidents is from 1.5% to 15%.
Read the article "Newborn Penile Glans Amputation during Circumcision .." note that the doctor who operated had already performed the operation more than 300 times - so much for experience.

The programme, "It's a Boy," to be screened on Channel 4 this month, includes graphic footage of a circumcision in the Midlands that went disastrously wrong. The 8-day-old baby, circumcised without anaesthetic by a rabbi who is not a doctor, is seen bloodied and screaming in agony during the operation. When it was clear things were going wrong, the rabbi demanded the crew stop filming, but they secretly recorded what followed. The boy developed an infection and ended up in intensive care being pumped with antibiotics and kept alive by oxygen and drips.
The film -- the work of Victor Schoenfeld, the Jewish father of a circumcised son -- also presents details of 2 babies who died as a result of circ and contains an interview with the mother of a third who almost bled to death. It reveals cases of permanent genital disfigurement, claiming that, at a conservative estimate one in 50 circumcisions leads to serious complications. The impact of the film, which also shows Muslim circumcisions, will be intensified by Ch. 4's decision to show it without commercial breaks. --The Observer, London, 3 Sept 1995 Circ Info Network 951011

Pediatrics. 92(6):794-9, 1993 Dec.
The Inconspicuous Penis. Authors: Bergeson PS., Hopkin RJ., Bailey RB Jr., McGill LC., Piatt JP. Department of General Pediatrics and Urology, Phoenix Children's Hospital, AZ.
Abstract OBJECTIVE: To describe the etiology and management of the group of abnormalities referred to as the inconspicuous penis. DESIGN: Analysis of 19 cases seen over a period of 2 years by chart review. SETTING: Children's hospital in a major metropolitan area. PATIENTS: Nineteen boys referred to two pediatric urologists over a period of 2 years with penises that appeared abnormally small, but on palpation and measurement, were found to have a normal shaft with a normal stretched length. Diagnoses included were buried penis, webbed penis, and trapped penis. Patients ages ranged from 1 week to 13 years. FINDINGS: There were eight patients (42%) with trapped penis, and all were complications of circumcision (at age 1 week to 7 months). --trapped-penis

LOSS OF PENIS DUE TO CIRCUMCISION TEL AVIV (AFP) - The parents of a two-year-old child who lost his penis due to an error during circumcision, have turned to the district court of Tel-Aviv, demanding US $800,000 in damages. Circ Info Network 940628

During the course of the circumcision, Dr. Tam, a pediatrician, amputated approximately 30% of the distal glans penis and transected the glandular urethra. A less than successful attempt was made to reattach that which had been excised. The Plaintiff (an infant) has undergone 4 corrective surgeries and requires at least one further surgery at this time. Circ Info Network 950107

Allen A. Ervin was born in July 1985 and had been on life support since December 1985, when his brain was damaged from oxygen deprivation during circumcision. The Anesthesiologists who attended to Allen during the circumcision settled the case for $435,000 and agreed to lifetime payment of his medical bills. He died at Spartanburg Regional Medical Center on Wednesday, three weeks before his 7th birthday.

My son, Jacob, was born normal and healthy at Providence Hospital in Anchorage Alaska in 1986, he was routinely circumcised on his second day of life. A few days later, we brought Jacob back to the hospital because an infection had developed at the circumcision site. A decision was made by his pediatrician to hospitalize him and administer antibotics. The next morning, he began to have seizures that went untreated. Twenty-six hours after entering the hospital, he stopped breathing during a massive seizure. As a result my son suffered profound brain damage. Today Jacob is almost ten years old, he requires 24 hour a day care as he will for the rest of his life.

& other articles.

circumcision is not necessarily the answer to all male problems, as you can see, in many cases it is the beginning of them.

regards

freda


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 May 04 - 05:35 AM

Martin I was glad to welcome you to the fold when you gave up being an annoying guest and became a contentious Mudcatter [I nearly said member] However I think you do yourself no favours when you get dirty and personal, and think you should repress your desire to shock, in most cases it doesn't work.Intelligent and funny posts get you noticed more than rude ones.
As to the pros and cons of male circumcision, I don't believe your statement that all US hospitals endorse the practice, what they almost certainly do encourage, is cleanliness in that area. So cicumcised or not keep it clean, and whether you wash it fast or slow is up to you!
JGM


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: dianavan
Date: 30 May 04 - 12:24 AM

I do not hate Americans, Jews or Men. It just so happens that Martin is all three of the above or at least claims he is. Just because I find him offensive, he tells me, "If any American Intelligence monitors this site, they already have you pegged."

I would consider it a compliment if American Intelligence found me (at this point in time) to be a threat. At least Martin thinks I am a credible threat. Heh - If I am, I'm proud!

Unlike Martin, who kisses the butt of anything that maintains the status quo, I am not afraid to question authority. Poor Martin is really just a coward.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: dianavan
Date: 29 May 04 - 10:17 PM

DougR - No.

Ake - Children are an important part of most women's lives. You can choose a career and then have children or you can have children then choose a career. Children and a career are not mutually exclusive. On the other hand, some women choose to have a career and become an 'aunty' to the children of others.

In this day and age, its important for women to be able to take care of themselves financially. The idea is to become financially independent so that you will not be dependent on others. Most women I know, realize that expecting men to take care of them and their children is not a guarantee that it will happen.

If a woman wants to have children, she should be prepared to take care of them financially.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: akenaton
Date: 29 May 04 - 09:08 PM

Hello Brucie..Your right of course,joni it is.
Things are fine in Auld Scotia,but its late and the caillach bhan is walking the road, so Im off to bed. Take care of yourself ..Ake


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: Peace
Date: 29 May 04 - 08:41 PM

As a circumcised male, the issue of adult circumcision doesn't affect me personally. However, take lots of drugs to ensure you don't get an erection until the tissue has healed. There was a biblical battle that was won in that manner (enemy was circumcised and thus rendered hors de combat).

Ake: That was said by Judy but written by Joni. How ya doin', buddy? Keeping well, I hope.

Bruce M


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: DougR
Date: 29 May 04 - 08:22 PM

Dianavan: The reason I posted my question was to test your resolve when you said you feared that Iraq might come under the thumb of the Taliban and Iraqi women would suffer, as they did in Afghanstan. To test it further: if armed conflict would be the only thing that would ensure that not happening, one where innocent people as well as the Taliban were injured and killed, would you support it?

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 May 04 - 08:19 PM

"I never see you post anything at all in the music section." You don't get up in the music section very often, do you, Marty? That's were I hang out about 90% of the time I spend on Mudcat. I've been posting stuff up there for years.   

I don't have a new-found obsession with you, Marty. I've always had a distaste for bullies and those who generally act like rampaging Visgoths at an otherwise very pleasant party. When more mature people try to have a serious discussion, you, who have nothing of value to add, insist on standing in the middle of the floor and shouting for attention, and unless you get it, you get foul-mouthed. You're a punk, Marty. Get a life!

Don FirtH


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: akenaton
Date: 29 May 04 - 07:56 PM

Regarding womens rights here in the West. I feel women have lost more than they have gained under our kind of "freedom"
Women are consciously choosing a career before having children,something which aught to be the most fulfilling part of a womans life.
Our materialistic society puts more and more strain on a natural lifestyle.
I hope I dont come across as a dinosaur,but as Judy used to say "Somethings lost and somethings gained in living every day"...Ake


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: akenaton
Date: 29 May 04 - 07:22 PM

Well Well!! you mighty warriors.   "Bustin ass"......"Whineing for mercy"....Just listen to yourselves ,this is a discussion forum not a war zone.   If you encounter an idiot ignore him and move on,but dont try and turn this lovely place into a kindergarten.
There are only a few who write here who are worthy of respect,the rest of us are just fumbling around trying to make sense of what we see andwarm ourselves in the glow of some strangers' approval.
All should try to emulate McGrath whos restrained posting I once mistook for sactimony, but now understand to be the sign of a kind heart...Ake


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 May 04 - 06:52 PM

Guest, you never had me ever gasping for Jack Daniels or anything else except for air after laughing so hard at you.

I don't drink. OK, a little Mogen David on Sunday before dinner.

dianavan, it is obvious you are an angry, America hating, men hating, and Jew hating wench of a woman who constantly must be identified for any newcomers here. Your posturing against all things in American politics and life styles have to be the worst case of someone having a bug up their ass I have ever seen.

If any American Intelligence monitors this site, they already have you pegged.

Go ahead and cry censorship dianavan. If your children are reading this site you are probably not a very good parent. There is much more vulgarity coming from regular posters in fun than I direct at you. You just have very little when it comes to having a way with words.

And as for Don Firth, his new found obsession with me after hours of obvious pondering reveal a very shallow man who brings nothing at all to the party, ecept his own personal witch hunt which he has documented so well. You know Don, you are definately one of the easist to yank their chain here. You have very little sense of humor and are as squeemish as an 11 year old girl. I never see you post anything at all in the music section. I you want to go toe to toe with me and dog me and monitor me, that's your choice, but you will look like an older fool than you already are. Other than that, isn't it time to change your diaper?


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 May 04 - 06:36 PM

Yeah, dianavan and Kevin, I, too, have wondered about Martin Gibson's bona fides (if I can use such an inappropriate expression in relation to something like Marty). Is this a real person? And, if so, what might he really be playing at? His obvious effort to be as offensive as possible is so over the top, it really makes one wonder.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 May 04 - 06:19 PM

It did occur to me that he might be a front for someone with an anti-semitic agenda.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: dianavan
Date: 29 May 04 - 06:08 PM

greg - when I said, "greg - It was a joke", I meant to address, Guest.

I have no research methodology at this time.

Don - I really appreciate your dilemma. I, too, have tried to ignore Martin but sometimes he leaves himself wide open. I should also refrain from the act of 'baiting him' but I find it quite satisfying to give him the rope to hang himself. Once he reveals himself for what he is (the definitions are many) I just leave it alone. If he weren't so vile and aggressive, you might be able to consider him harmless but he has a way of turning any serious discussion into personal attacks and then the thread degenerates.

Since children have access to this site, I think Joe or one his clones should be contacted about his vulgarity.

Personally, I think he's pathetic and I pity his family (if he has one). For all I know, he's writing to us from prison. I'm not even sure he's a real person. Has anyone ever met him?


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 May 04 - 04:27 PM

I see he hasn't got his birthday listed in the Members Photos and Info section. So that means no Happy Birthday greetings from those whole hold him in affection here. And no photo either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: GUEST
Date: 29 May 04 - 04:18 PM

I busted his ass one night on a thread that got deleted. He was gasping for his Jack Daniels after 10 minutes.

Gibson ain't so tough

Just ignore the bastard


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 May 04 - 03:36 PM

Considering the hail of invective that has been address at many nice people on this thread, all coming from one person, I beg your indulgence for a brief side-issue.

My apologies, oddly enough, to Martin Gibson and others. I was in error (a rare and unusual occurrence—it happened once before, in 1954, when I thought I had made an error, but upon re-examination, it turned out I had not, so the fact that I thought I had made an error was, in itself, the error). I find I do have a morbid interest in what it writes, and I quite probably will read what it posts, depending on how morbid I'm feeling when I encounter such deposits.

First of all, a few posts back, I momentarily lost touch with my sense of the absurd. Since my parents were civilized and cultured people, I was raised to grant all persons respect as a matter of course, and not to withdraw that respect from a particular person unless I determined that he or she, by their behavior, was not worthy of it. When I encounter someone who takes the opposite view—that all people are to be regarded with contempt and treated with rudeness and abuse, regardless of how respectable they may actually be—I tend, quite naturally enough, to become indignant. Thus, I lost touch with my sense of the absurd. And Martin Gibson, as all can readily see, is absurd.

In truth, I find Marty quite fascinating. Encountering Marty is rather like when you are walking in the deep forest and come upon a strange insect. The thing has more wings and legs than it can possibly control with its minuscule ganglia. It's attempts to fly are pathetic, and it manages only to hop a few inches at a time, landing in a heap of tangled legs and antennae. It then has to struggle for several minutes to right itself. When it walks, it staggers here and there, totally unable to maintain a straight line, manages to get its legs all braided up, and once again, it topples over, lying there helpless and struggling. And someplace, as you are observing this scatter-footed chimera, you notice that, despite its small size, it emits a foul odor. You wonder: did this diminutive nightmare come about by some outlandish side-trip in the process of evolution? Or is it the grotesque product of a bizarre mutation? You wonder if you should leave it alone, or put it out of its obvious misery by mercifully crushing it under your heel. But with a fundamental reverence for life (and wondering if this thing actually qualifies as a life-form), you shudder, shrug your shoulders, and walk off, leaving it to whatever its fate might be.

When someone acts in a manner that even a slobbering, unwashed, flea-bitten barbarian would find shameful and disgusting, I feel I would be abdicating my responsibility as a cultured and enlightened member of the human race not to call that someone on it and attempt (undoubtedly in vain) to point out a more civilized path.

So, Marty, you don't get off that easy. I will be following your career. Some threads back, as a result of my pointing out where you transgressed the mores of civilized conduct, I had you whining for mercy, and I wasn't even trying then. I'm on your six, buster!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 May 04 - 12:50 PM

Under the Saddam regime, unpleasant as it was, the veil was not generally worn by women, and the restrictions on women prevalent in neighbouring countries such as Saudi Arabia were not in force to anywhere near the same extent. It seems quite probable that this may not be true in the New Iraq.

Rather in the same way that the position of women in Afghanistan deteriorated catastrophically with the defeat of the Russian backed regime by the fighters (including Bin Laden) who had backing from Washington.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: freda underhill
Date: 29 May 04 - 12:32 PM

Some women from Moslem countries, who did not wear the veil in their country of origin, but take it up when they move to Western countries. Why? as a reaction to the degradation of women that they see everywhere in advertisements, on billboards, and walking down the street. Many such women regard the veil in a similar way that feminists felt about the old overalls and Tshirt a couple of decades ago - a uniform that says "I am not a sex object". At home, they wear shorts and T shirts like everyone else.

there is so much demonising of people from different cultures - people have walls, views, through which they see. yet everywhere, people are truly so similar.

except for Martin Gibson, who is a one off. Martin, wash your mouth out with soap and water, and go do some household chores as penance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: Jim McCallan
Date: 28 May 04 - 11:28 PM

The question I would ponder on, would be what exactly were the safeguards that the Bush Administration took before entering Iraq to ensure this scenario would never arise in the first place. (the Taliban gaining the upper hand in Iraq)

If the majority of the population are Shia, just as in any other democracy then, one would expect the majority to rule. If they are a majority of democratically elected Shias, with a bias towards America, well, what have we actually gained?

One cannot legislate to enforce a change of mindset, I'm afraid, and I don't believe Iraq (or any other, mainly Muslim country) can ever effectually do that.
One can legislate for equal rights; employment, pro choice in all matters relating to the person, etc. But if the democratically elected majority do not pass such laws, where does a democracy then become a dictatorship.

And what rights do 'We' have, to go back in there, and sort it out, again?


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: dianavan
Date: 28 May 04 - 09:53 PM

DougR - I don't know the answer to your question but I would hope that Islamic fundamentalists are not handed the reigns of power. Seems to me that Iran is doing everything possible to insure that Iraq falls under their domination. I'm not sure, but I think that if the Shiites get control of Iraq, the role of women in Iraq will be strictly limited. Makes me wonder who exactly will be voting in the new, free election in Iraq.

As to the veil - there are plenty of middle-eastern countries where women are not veiled. It depends a great deal on the religious leaders of the country and the political will to provide education to all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 May 04 - 06:32 PM

No response to my query about whether there are any Jewish or Islamic communities who favour adult circumcision, the way Baptists favour adult baptism?


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: GUEST,Shlio
Date: 28 May 04 - 05:08 PM

Normally I'd agree with Don, but I must give in to my "morbid curiosity".

Martin, you are fiercely defending male circumcision as it is a religious tradition. I have no problem with that, or the other opinions, eg on hygeine, that you have so graphically provided. How would you answer a mother who wants to get her daughter circumcised because it is a cultural and semi-religious tradition?

And returning to the subject of the thread, I'm confused as to how the Iraqi women should be liberated. Tell them to throw off their veils...leaving them (in the eyes of their community) indecently dressed? Surely the best way to let them choose how to live is, first, to have peace, and secondly, to fund schools in which both Iraqi teachers and others can gradually spread new ideas.

It's impossible to forcibly liberate people from a way of life- they have to do it themselves by accepting new ideas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: Once Famous
Date: 28 May 04 - 04:46 PM

Oh boo hoo Mr. Firth/Filth.
I guess my blow job comment hit too close to home for you. Made you a bit squeemish I guess.

Hah!


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: DougR
Date: 28 May 04 - 04:44 PM

Er, ah, back to the subject at hand. Dinavan: I don't want you to overlook my last question to you, okay?

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 May 04 - 04:35 PM

You're the one who is morbid ("of, relating to, or characteristic of disease"), Marty, and henceforth I will not be sullying my mind with your filth. I will make it a point to skip whatever you post because you don't post anything worth reading. You are a swine.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: Once Famous
Date: 28 May 04 - 03:58 PM

But you keep reading them, don't you.

You do so because of your morbid curiousity. Like I said, you wouldn't if you didn't find what I was going to say interesting.

Ladies, a blow job on an uncircumcised male will never be the same for you now, will it?

And that's the way I see it May 28, 2004.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 May 04 - 03:41 PM

Reading what Martin Gibson posts is like analyzing feces. It's usually pretty disgusting, it smells bad, and unless you are a medical specialist looking for something pathological, there's nothing to be learned from it.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: DougR
Date: 28 May 04 - 01:43 PM

My, my, my, have we strayed from the subject of the thread?

Dianavan: if you truly are concerned that the Taliban might take over the governance of Iraq, how would you propose that they be prevented from doing so?

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 May 04 - 01:38 PM

From a post by a new member, Rabbi-Sol, on another thread:

The wonderful thing about this forum is that we can discuss the issues as rational human beings, with mutual respect, even though many of us are on opposite sides of the issue. It is a lot better than shooting bullets and grenades at each other.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 May 04 - 01:25 PM

I suppose the idea of that kind of thing is to try to provoke an angry and unconsidered response, which would then provide a justification for further unpleasant posts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 28 May 04 - 01:00 PM

Entertainment??? That was just GROSS!


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: Once Famous
Date: 28 May 04 - 12:47 PM

Yes, I have heard that Moslems also circumcise their male babies as well as Jews. However, Moslems in their attempt to suppress females have been known to practice female circumcision.

guest, a stupid remark that was not clever.

dianavan, circumcison of Jewish males is hardly a sexual asualt. It is a time honored tradition and you won't find a hospital in America that doesn't reccommend it for a newborn male. that does not mean, if someone chooses not to have their newborn child circumcised they are Un-American. Your accusations are very emotionally directed at me and are not at all rational.

However, I do understand that a circumcised male makes it hard for you personally to continue your practice of cleaning out the smegma of an uncircumcised penis using your tongue. This was somewhat emotionally and coyly directed at you and was in fact, quite rationaly done, not in rage, but for entertainment purposes only.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: greg stephens
Date: 28 May 04 - 03:15 AM

As was my request to know your research methodology.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: dianavan
Date: 27 May 04 - 11:53 PM

greg - It was a joke.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 May 04 - 08:31 PM

I understand Baptists disaprove of child baptism, and think it should wait until people are adults and can decide for themselves. Are there any branches of Judaism or Islam which have a similar belief regarding circumcision?


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: dianavan
Date: 27 May 04 - 08:11 PM

greg - I said that circumcision can be described as sexual assault.
Hostility and rage are logical consequences of sexual assault in childhood.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: greg stephens
Date: 27 May 04 - 06:23 PM

Dianavan: you claim circumcision makes males hostile, agressive, hung up about hygeine and foul-mouthed. Is this the result of a personal survey, or could you tell us where you got these facts from? Who did the research, how large was the sample etc etc. I think we should know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: GUEST
Date: 27 May 04 - 05:33 PM

You obviously rate the penis but unfortunately for you, obviously, a man is attached to each!


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: dianavan
Date: 27 May 04 - 01:29 AM

What do you call that worthless piece of skin attached to the penis?




A man!   :>)




Now I suppose I'll be called a man-hater.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: GUEST
Date: 27 May 04 - 12:53 AM

How would you know that "sex is much more wonderful and sensitive", if you never had one to begin with, Martin?


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 27 May 04 - 12:44 AM

Why do women prefer men who are circumcised?



Because they just can't resist anything with 10% OFF.


OOPS!!!! Sorry, just couldn't resist.

whb


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: mack/misophist
Date: 27 May 04 - 12:11 AM

For what it's worth, I've seen it claimed that no circumcised male has ever had cancer of the penis. Of course, the incidence is very low.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: dianavan
Date: 27 May 04 - 12:10 AM

Martin - Are you saying if American men are not circumcised, they are un-American?

Circumcision is another 'outdated' custom that may or may not be hygienic, depending on the man. It certainly, in light of what we know about child psychology, can be described as sexual assault. This explains why you so 'hung up' about hygiene and yet have such a filthy tongue.

It also explains alot about male hostility and aggression. I'd certainly be pissed off if someone did that to me with parental approval. Some cultures even celebrate the rite. How barbaric!

Just goes to show you how we got into this mess in the first place.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 May 04 - 07:03 PM

Well, if circumcision is "a wonderful Jewish and American practice", it's a wonderful practice you share with Muslims.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: mg
Date: 26 May 04 - 06:02 PM

I don't know if we should wear veils to cover our faces. I would be o.k. with it actually. I do believe that we, every society, somehow needs limits on how provocitavely women can dress. It contributes to all sorts of problems for the women, and for the men who must resist them..look at how many of our young girls dress....what good can come of it? mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: Once Famous
Date: 26 May 04 - 05:55 PM

dianavan

I am quite fine without my foreskin, thanks for asking.

sex is much more wonderful and sensitive and there is no cheesy substance lurking under it which makes for bad hygiene and known bad odors.

Male circumcision is a wonderful Jewish and American practice, don't you agree?

By the way, do you think women should wear a veil to cover their faces? Or how about those big things on their heads that cover their faces like in Afganistan?


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 May 04 - 01:49 PM

But that's the same distinction that applies with the Bible. The translations are handy, but the definitive version is the original text.

Different Christian traditions have a range of ways when it comes to the way they see the Bible.

One thing to remember is that Christians have been around longer in one shape or form - in the Muslim calendar the year is 1425.


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Subject: RE: BS: Iraqi women and the Koran
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 26 May 04 - 10:32 AM

Most of the faithful oppose translating the Koran.
That seems a very questionable assertion indeed. There are numerous translations from Islamic sources, including translations into English published in Saudi Arabia. There are also translations online.


Well seen, McGrath. But the faithful make a fine difference. The Koran was reveiled for them in clear Arabic language; the translations are not the Holy Koran, but their title is "the meaning of the Holy Koran" and similar expressions, when translated by a Muslim. When a translation has only Koran in the title you can be sure that it was written by an infidel scholar such as Bell, Paret et al.


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