BS: D-Day commemoration

Subject: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: GUEST,Laurent
Date: 03 Jun 04 - 03:49 PM

Hell, probably a guest once again.

3 days before the D-Days 60th commemoration, I would personnaly like, being French, say that we, French, are deeply in dept with the lads, may they be Americans, English, Canadians, Polish or even French - I met one of them - or whatever contries they may belong, who gave their youth and often their life for our freedom.

It does not matter if US and Brittish governments main goals might have been to stop communist advance in Europe. I'm quite certain most of soldiers ignored it.

I still have a thought for young German's soldiers who gave their life on the wrong side of the war. I met some veterans in Germany and I can't figure them as butchers, only lads who thought they only did their duty. BTW, my first girlfriend was German.

I still believe that war is a terrible mess on both sides, even if I was ready to serve in Tchad when I was a conscript.

I think it's time now to bury any hatchet, except with extremists, wherever they may come from.

So, even if the Americans, Brittish, all others countries inhabitants and French are proudly keeping on misunderstanding each others friendly (?), we still have to thank each and every lad who landed on our beaches in Normandy. (I leave in Le Havre, a town almost totally destroyed by the Bomber Command).

So, I would like you to know that French people are not so anti-American you can be told, even if some Americans behaviour might irritate us. I remember a youngster when I was at school who commanded to be served, just because he went from the USA and we were only clodhoppers. Well I have to confess that I'm often ashamed to be French in England,I never went to the USA, but I'm not sure to be welcomed.

In conclusion,we all have to remember the sacrifice of so many young men.

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Megan L
Date: 03 Jun 04 - 04:13 PM

Human beings will always misunderstand each other Laurent, it is easier to create stereotypes to make oneself feel superior than take the trouble to admit others are human beings to.

Thankfully we lost no family member in ww2 but my grandfather is on the memorial at LA FERTE-SOUS-JOUARRE MEMORIAL he died on the 14th september 1914 leaving his wife 5 months pregnant with my mother and 5 other children. I always remember my mother saying that when some young germans visited the town in the 20s many of the inhabitants spat at them but my Grandmother took the boys into her home and gave them tea, because as she said her Dauvitt may have had to kill one of their fathers or vice versa.

No one wins a war we are all diminished by it but like you I think of the many young people who gave their lives (both military and civilian) to end the horror.

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: GUEST,Laurent
Date: 03 Jun 04 - 05:11 PM

My father's uncle died during WWI. He was wounded at the front and, unfortunatly, the ambulance that which evacuated him blew up on a mine. Fortunatly(?), he was a bachelor.

You're right, war only bring losers, both sides.

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Peace
Date: 03 Jun 04 - 06:06 PM

Laurent,

Merci pour la belle écriture. Les gens de pays toujours semblent accueillir chaque autre même si gouvernements nous disent nous devons détester chaque autre. S'il vous plaît savoir que vous êtes bienvenu dans le Canada -- n'importe quelle Province, n'importe quand.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Gareth
Date: 03 Jun 04 - 07:01 PM

Hmmm ! This is a Keith Marsden Song which( in my oppinoin should be in the DT

NORMANDY ORCHARDS
Keith Marsden

They're building a camp on the cornfields at Allingham,
Bulldozers churning and changing the land.
Long barbed-wire fences and acres of tarmac,
Nissen huts ranged where the crops used to stand.
Wide-eyed young village girls, giggling and staring at,
Tanks and transporters that darken the sky.
There's convoys of lorries with fresh faces peering out,
So many young men come learning to die.

CHORUS:
They say you can still hear the village hall band,
Grey, ghostly couples still glide round the floor.
But Normandy orchards were waiting to welcome,
New partners for death in the mad dance of war.

Mother has started a Comforts Committee,
But Reverend John's more concerned about sin.
Hughes at the White Swan is rubbing his hands a lot,
Watching the troops and the profits roll in.
Eager young squaddies with overdone courtesy,
Tipping their caps to the girls going by.
But too soon from school to be licentious soldiery,
So many young men come learning to die.

CHORUS

And mother would have a blue fit if she knew about,
Lieutenant Johnson and walks in the wood.
She's laid down the law and she's always gone on about,
Men being beasts so a girl must be good.
But even she'd laugh at our clumsy propriety,
Me far too fearful and him far too shy.
She might even pity his lonely bewilderment,
One of the young men come learning to die.

Chorus

And peace came to Allingham many long years ago,
Time, passing by, healed the scars on the land.
Tanks on the village green just a fond memory now,
Corn grows again where the huts used to stand.
Yet when I walk in the woods on a summer's night,
At the trees' edge when the wind starts to sigh.
I still hear their voices all rising in harmony,
Lost, wasted young men, come learning to die.

Chorus

From Picking Sooty Blackberries, The Songs of Keith Marsden

Some years ago I was doing a survey on some damaged cargo at Newhaven, with an hour or so to spare I made a point of looking for the billeting area my father spent his time in prior to D-Day.

He was lucky - he landed at D+ 3 or 4, as spare cadre, A junior officer waiting for casualties.

By May 1945 he had comand of the Battery (RA Anti-Tank) - Dead mens shoes all the way.

Makes you think

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 03 Jun 04 - 07:35 PM

I have been to several of the war graves in Normandy and I was still overwhelmed by the crosses row on row and a great feeling of sadness for those that died on both sides. They deserve to be remembered.

Here are a couple of poems I particularly think fit for today;

Poems for the Fallen; Lawrence Binyon.

They went with songs to the battle, they were young,
Straight of limb, true of eye, steady and aglow.
They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted
They fell with their faces to the foe.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We shall remember them.

A soldier stood at the Pearly Gate; Anonymous

A soldier stood at the pearly gate,
His face was scarred and old.
He stood before the man of fate
For admission to the fold.

'What have you done,' St Peter asked
'To gain admission here?'
'I've been a soldier sir,' he said
'For many and many a year.'

The Pearly Gate swung open wide
As St Peter touched the bell.
'Inside', he said,'and choose your harp.
You've had your share of hell.'


A last one by Heinrich Lersch titled 'Brothers'

For long between the trenches a dead man lat in view,
The sun shone hot upon him, wind cooled him and the dew.

And every day I saw him across the empty space,
And thought, the more I saw him: that is my brothers face.

I saw him every moment, before me as he lay,
And heard his voice that called me each happy peacefull day.

Often at night a sobbing that woke me full of fear:
You love me then no longer, O brother, brother dear?

Until one night I went across, though round me bullets flew,
And brought him in. And buried him. A man I never knew.

My eyes alone deceived me.-My heart you're not misled:
My brothers features look from all the faces of the dead.

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Jun 04 - 08:26 PM

There were 25,000 Australians present in the D-Day landing. 14 died on that day - others later on before the end of hostilities in Europe.

At the very time that Australia was under threat in the Pacific, our politicians decided that our presence in Europe was essential.

My mother's father also trudged thru France in WWI.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: GUEST,Laurent
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 01:51 AM

Thanks Brucie.

Maybe one of these days.

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Wolfgang
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 04:24 AM

Omaha Beach, 60 years later

Most of you will not understand the words, but you will understand the pictures.

Short summary:

Private Silva has been nearly killed at Omaha Beach. Gefreiter Severloh was the machine gunner responsible for the majority of dead soldiers at Omaha Beach and most probably for Silva's wounds. Sixteen years after the war he read in the book 'The longest day' (I hope that is the English title as well) the eyewitness account by Silva and recognised himself as the machine gunner described by Silva. Silva at that time was living in Germany as a pastor in the US Army. May 19th 1963 they met each other for the first time and became friends. They have met once more at Omaha Beach in 2004.

Silva: "Hein never has asked me for forgiveness, but I have forgiven him, that menas a lot to him."

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Hrothgar
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 04:35 AM

25,000 Australians, Robin? News to me.

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 06:58 AM

Australians in Europe, and Brits in the Pacific. It was a global conflict.
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Wolfgang
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 07:20 AM

Australians in D-Day (2,500 is a better guess than 25,000; most of them in air support)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Jun 04 - 09:32 AM

"25,000 Australians, Robin? News to me."

That figure has been all over the ABC National Radio Programs. Sounded rather high to me too. It's possible an ABC researcher slipped a decimal point and the mistake has kept on circulating... perhaps I should contact the ABC Media Watch team...

There were also Naval people there too.

There were also special officers from all services (I heard the figure of 14 the page referred to says 12) sent to oversee the planning - at that time it was thought that Australian troops would be taking their place alongside US troops in Pacific landings. It didn't turn out that way.

Don't forget Roger, that the reason the 'chocos' were sent to new Guinea was that a good number of our already trained troops were overseas (apart from the ones 'surrendered by British Officers'). There was a lot of fuss from some people who felt that the troops should be brought home before Christmas - now where have I heard that recently? ;-)

My father was (from memory) posted in Scotland as RAAF, and was there until VE day (was put on a court martial charge when a bunch of tanked aussies took an aircraft towing tractor and tried to drive to London that night), after when he was returned to Bundaberg and served there as WO. One of his exciting jobs while in Scotland was the 'safe' :-) task of towing drogues for fighter live round practice.... his plane was sometimes riddled... but luckily, usually at the other end from where he as a trained Multi-Engine pilot was sitting ... :-) There is no truth in the rumour that such towing flight crews were ISSUED with brown trousers... :-)

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Mr Happy
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 05:53 AM

I know what 'VE' Day is: 'Victory in Europe Day & 'VJ'Day is 'Victory over Japan Day, so similarly I guess 'D' is a code letter in 'D' Day.

Anyone know if the 'D' stood for something?

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Sooz
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 06:12 AM

We've been thinking the same as you Mr H. Apparently the term D-day is military jargon for the "day on which any planned operation will take place" ie. "Day day" I just wonder if the term was in use before 1944 or if it has slipped into military jargon since.

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Leadfingers
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 12:06 PM

Managed to sing McColl's 'Second Front Song' at Maidenhead on Thursday
with Admiral following up with Alan Burbridge's 'Warrior for the Working Day'. We usually remember the major anniversaries at Maidenhead.

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: The Walrus
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 12:53 PM

Mr H & Sooz,

D Day is any designated day for the start of an operation all starting at 'H Hour' (redesignated as 'zero hour' for purposes of timing during the operation).

The term does indeed predate the War.

Walrus

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 11:19 PM

...& same terminology is still used today, I think, so why the term has stuck for 6th June '44,I'm not sure...

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Blackcatter
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 11:31 PM

Cause it was the biggest-assed D-Day ever.

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: GUEST,same one again
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 11:43 PM

probably youre right!

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: harpmaker
Date: 05 Jun 04 - 11:49 PM

leadfingers,
            you sang songs by Ewan Mcall !!!!!!!!!! A deserter ?? I find any mention of that man and my grandfathers should not be uttered under the same breath!

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Metchosin
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 12:06 AM

In World War II, we fought the full war and sent 1.1 million troops. At the time, the population of Canada was just over 11 million people. That means Canada sent one/ tenth of her population to war and 42,000 paid the ultimate price.......Oh Canada.....we make not make memorable movies, but when we view a war as just, we are more than willing to make the sacrifice.

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Metchosin
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 12:18 AM

To put that in context, that would be the equivalent of the US mustering a force of 33 million.

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Metchosin
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 12:38 AM

Canadians at Juno Beach

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Hrothgar
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 06:19 AM

That means there were 330 million Yanks in all?

With respect to the Canucks, are you sure about the 1.1 millon?

I keep having statistical problems in this thread!

Peace.

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Metchosin
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 11:12 AM

Hrothgar, if you want to argue numbers with the Canadian Department of Veteran Affairs, feel free, however according to VA, the basic figures are correct, except my recollection for number of casualties is a bit low.

Perhaps I was remiss in not pointing out that the population figures I gave for the US were current and should have said "To put that in context, that would be the equivalent of the US currently mustering a force of 33 million."

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Metchosin
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 12:08 PM

Lest We Forget or doubt.

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 12:27 PM

One of my uncles died fighting in Europe in WWII. I don't know very much about how he died. Someone said they thought the airplane he was in was shot down over France, but nobody in my family talks about it much. Maybe it's too painful for them.

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Metchosin
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 12:58 PM

One of my more vivid recollections as a child was that of my best friend's father telling us kids what it was like stepping off into water over his head, holding his rifle up and struggling fully armed up to the beach at Juno.

He witnessed his best friend on his knees beside him, when they finally made it to dry land yelling, "My guts are burning!" while his buddy tried to stuff his intestines back into a gaping would in his stomach.

His friend didn't make it, but he did and although he was captured by the German Army, at one point he managed to escape and survived for awhile on peelings from trash cans.

The story left an indelible impression on my young mind and it was the only time anyone ever recounted their war experience in such horrific detail. Most did not talk about it.

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 01:36 PM

It takes more than a few beer to get some Veterans to open up, and there are usually lots of tears. I pray that our children never have to experience war, and I pray for the kids that currently are. In the final analysis, and despite my occasional posts that speak from political context and not necessarily 'rational' thought, war is not good for humans and other living things. I look forward to a day when war becomes obsolete. And maybe the beginning of that is a search for peace and understanding with each other.

Bruce M

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jun 04 - 03:50 PM

The first casualties of the 1944 Normandy landings were the kids killed on the beach of Dieppe in 1942. Let's not forget them and their place in the grand picture.

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: GUEST,deure0udd
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 01:23 AM

http://www.archive.org/details/Complete_Broadcast_Day_D-Day

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 01:45 AM

Metch, your figures are a little high- even for 2007. This month the estimated US population is 301 million. There were fewer yet in 2004.

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Metchosin
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 03:12 AM

Ebbie, I have no recollection of where I got the population figure for the US in 2004, so as a correction I will change my statement to "That would be equivelent to the US currently mustering a force of close to 30 million".

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: cookster
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 05:53 PM

Where did all the obsticles on the beach go?

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: The Walrus
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 10:06 AM

"...Where did all the obsticles on the beach go?..."

After the explosives were removed, it's a fairly safe bet that, it not shifted officially, then some enterprising 'scrappy' was in there like a rat up a drain - there was a (I believe) Europe wide shortage of steel in the years following the War (Hence the Land Rover being built with Aluminium coachwork - to save steel).

W

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: cookster
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 04:08 PM

Ok I just wanted to know.

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jun 10 - 01:27 PM

Lest we forget...

By The Associated Press

COLVILLE-SUR-MER, France - Veterans and those grateful for their sacrifices have marked the 66th anniversary of the D-Day landings, remembering the invasion that turned the tide of the Second World War.

U.S. veteran William Duane Bush, wearing a military jacket, raised the American flag at the Normandy American Cemetery in Colleville-sur-Mer, which overlooks Omaha Beach.

It was the first time 93-year-old Bush of Lincoln, Neb., had returned to Europe since the war's end.

An ecumenical service was held at the cathedral in the town of Bayeux, where a wreath-laying service also took place at the British military cemetery.

Some 215,000 Allied soldiers, and roughly as many Germans, were killed or wounded during D-Day and the ensuing nearly three months it took to secure the capture of Normandy.

In Ottawa, Prime Minister Stephen Harper issued a statement, paying tribute to the soldiers who fought on D-Day.

"The Canadian Forces earned their place in the history books that day when they forged ahead by land, air and sea farther than any other Allied troops," he said.

"We also reflect on the ultimate sacrifice that 5,000 Canadians made during the Battle of Normandy to combat tyranny and secure our freedom, a sacrifice we must all remember," the prime minister added.

Subject: RE: BS: D-Day commemoration
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Jun 10 - 07:44 PM

As was said in another context, "...we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we cannot hallow, this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who fought here have hallowed it far beyond our poor power to add or detract."