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BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented
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Subject: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Strick Date: 07 Jun 04 - 10:27 AM Did al-Qaida recruit warn FBI before 9/11? "LONDON - More than a year before 9/11, a Pakistani-British man told the FBI an incredible tale: that he had been trained by bin Laden's followers to hijack airplanes and was now in America to carry out an attack. The FBI questioned him for weeks, but then let him go home, and never followed up. Now, the former al-Qaida insider is talking." "Congress' 9/11 report confirms that in April, 2000, an unnamed 'walk-in' told the FBI he 'was to meet five or six persons' — some of them pilots — who would take over a plane and fly to Afghanistan, or blow the plane up. The report adds that the 'walk-in' passed a lie-detector test." |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Amos Date: 07 Jun 04 - 10:51 AM If Khan's report is correct, the whole catastrophe could have been prevented except for one thing: an order from FBI HQ that he should be sent back to London and forgotten about. Whose order was that, anyway? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Jun 04 - 11:31 AM Sounds like a Bush administration story to push the whole events of September 11 back onto Clinton's watch. Just in time for the election. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Strick Date: 07 Jun 04 - 11:52 AM You're saying it never happened, SRS? |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Jun 04 - 04:44 PM I'm saying some more information on the source and the author of the aritcle and a few citations that corroborate this story would be extremely useful in determining the authenticity and veracity of this man's story. Someone who tells this sort of story about himself is already suspect as an opportunist (lots of publicity, attention, money possible). Who can back up what he says, who in these agencies will admit (under promise of anonymity, probably) that this in fact did happen? SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Strick Date: 07 Jun 04 - 06:19 PM How about something from the Senate Intelligence Committee as quoted in here the Village Voice? This would corroborate the story don't you think? Any reason to doubt the Senate Intelligence Committee? "In April 2000, according to the Senate Intelligence Committee report of September 2002, a 'walk-in' source appeared at the FBI's Newark office and told agents he had been to a training camp in Pakistan and there learned hijacking techniques and received arms training. The man said he was to rendezvous with five or six other people in the U.S. to participate in a plot that involved hijacking a plane and flying it to Afghanistan. There were to be pilots among the group. If the mission aborted, then the plane would be blown up. The walk-in passed an FBI polygraph, but the agency was never able to verify the story. So said the Senate report. That apparently was the end of it." Who Knew? |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Amos Date: 07 Jun 04 - 08:09 PM Hijacking a plane to Afghanistan is a very different story. One of the reasons that the passengers on 9-11 were as complaisant as they were is because they thought they were being hijacked in the traditional sense (!!) -- a scenario in which cooperation is good for you because it increases your chance of getting out alive, even if in a very different place than you had planned. Had they known where the hijackers were heading they would have behaved quite differently, I believe. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Irish sergeant Date: 07 Jun 04 - 08:35 PM There were a myriad of things this nation could havce done to prevent what happened Sept. 11, not the least of which was to treat the Arab nations as the rquals of Isreal. I do not condone terrorism in any of its forms but among the other things that could have been done was to maintain the strict neutrality that preached instead of swapping guns for money to support anti communist death squads in Central America. We love to preach morality but not practice it. By the by, lest anyone think I am a flaming liberal, I spent my time in the service from Vietnam to the Gulf war. And how about having the government agencies that were supposed to be on watch do their jobs instead of creating yet anoth method to intrude on our personal liberties. Where were the FBI, CIA, NSA, INS etc? Irish sergeant |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 07 Jun 04 - 09:18 PM The hijacking idea was a cover that every one else was told - only 'the pilots' knew what was the real plan. Now we have space for the 'conspiracy theorists' - compare with 'Pearl Harbour' - as to whether there was a deliberate plan to allow the US to be 'drawn into' a plan of action that suited some people. In the Pearl Harbour case, it was the 'industrialists' who would profit from war production: in 9/11, it was those who wanted to institute a 'Big Brother' form of government. Sigh! Robin |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Jun 04 - 11:11 PM Strick, I'm not saying this isn't plausible or possible. What I'm saying is that the timing is extremely fishy, and without some credible backup, I see it as purely politically motivated by someone like Rove who never let the facts stand in the way of a good story. Some bits from the article linked above:
Is the London Sunday Times a credible paper? Did their reporter track down the waiter or did someone come forward with the story?
Gambling away his money versus what? He could have bought a lot of diapers and babyclothes with that money, most likely. If he's so fond of his wife, what's he doing gambling away all of that cash? This is just such a non-sequitur.
The New York Post! That paper is so yellow I don't think anything they print can be taken at face value. Have they improved greatly in recent days?
I do consider the Washington Post credible, and if the two stories are evidently from the same source, I'd be inclined to believe this version. The fact that this appeared in the Village Voice gives it some credibility, but they reached out across some mucky waters for at least some of their sources. And these days, I think "Senate Intelligence Committee" is largely an oxymoron in the Republican controlled senate. Too many Bush Toadies. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Two_bears Date: 07 Jun 04 - 11:26 PM "LONDON - More than a year before 9/11, a Pakistani-British man told the FBI an incredible tale: that he had been trained by bin Laden's followers to hijack airplanes and was now in America to carry out an attack. The FBI questioned him for weeks, but then let him go home, and never followed up. Now, the former al-Qaida insider is talking." "Congress' 9/11 report confirms that in April, 2000, an unnamed 'walk-in' told the FBI he 'was to meet five or six persons' — some of them pilots — who would take over a plane and fly to Afghanistan, or blow the plane up. The report adds that the 'walk-in' passed a lie-detector test." That's fine; but how was the U.S supposed to know which date the attack was going to happen, or which flights would be used. There are thousands of flights EVERYDAY. Without accurate Intelegence; it is like finding a needle in a haystack. |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Two_bears Date: 07 Jun 04 - 11:40 PM And how about having the government agencies that were supposed to be on watch do their jobs instead of creating yet anoth method to intrude on our personal liberties. Where were the FBI, CIA, NSA, INS etc? Irish sergeant May I remind you that the real cuts in the size of the government came from the military whil Bill Clinton was president. May I remind you that Senator Toricelli worked to pass laws which made it illegal for the CIA to hire alleged or known criminals (sorry but the sunday school teachers do not know who the bad guys are. May I remind you that Senator John Kerry wrote a bill that had intended to cut the CIA budget by $6.5 Billion. When the Bill got to the floor; the CIA's budget was gutted by $1.5 Billion May I remind you that the attack on the WTC in 1993, the attack on the embassys, the attacks on the U.S.S. Cole, etc were treated as law enforcement actions by the Clinton whitehouse. Instead of understanding the terrorists WANT TO KILL US, and they don't care who they have to kill to accomplish that goal. Two Bears |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: LadyJean Date: 07 Jun 04 - 11:43 PM Sixty some years ago a group of German saboteurs landed on the Jersey shore. Their leader had lived in the U.S. for several years, and had no love for Hitler. Shortly after he landed, he called FBI headquarters and tried to convince them that they were in the U.S. and planning sabotage. As I remember he practically had to lead his buddies into the Bureau offices. Sounds like the FBI hasn't changed much. |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Jun 04 - 01:10 AM LadyJean, I heard an interview with one of those fellows recently. I think it was on the NPR program Fresh Air. As I recall at least one of the sabboteurs was executed. It was a poorly handled affair. Instead of understanding the terrorists WANT TO KILL US, and they don't care who they have to kill to accomplish that goal. Instead figuring out what has made those terrorists so angry (and they speak for a lot of other people) U.S. politicians have been asses on the world stage. Instead of figuring out how to live in the world and let others live, the U.S. has been particularly obnoxious lately about trying to tell everyone else how to live. They've been far too supportive of Israel and blind to their bullying tactics with their Arab neighbors, just making a bad situation worse. And they haven't the balls to put the pressure on Saudi Arabia to reign in their angry young men. And they say Syria harbors terrorists--I beg to differ! SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 08 Jun 04 - 01:39 AM Yes, SRS, A part of the world fears that the biggest most arrogant terrorist state is the USA... ... and even some us 'US friendly' have our own doubts at times... Robin |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Jun 04 - 02:29 AM Imagine how it feels to be on the inside of this juggernaut as it rolls through the World's streets crushing populations in its path. Oh--wait--a lot of Americans feel they're entitled to act this way. They're "Enlightened" and (self-)righteous and just waiting for everyone else to catch up. As I say, it's pretty depressing. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Strick Date: 08 Jun 04 - 09:41 AM "And these days, I think "Senate Intelligence Committee" is largely an oxymoron in the Republican controlled senate. Too many Bush Toadies" OK, so the Democratic half of that committee has been silenced? They many not control the committee's agenda, but surely they can reach for a microphone in public, right? Why don't they? I understand this guy isn't the most credible witness in the world, but wouldn't this information combined with Richard Clarke's theory of airplanes used as bombs and reports that suspected terrorists were trying to learn to fly planes (but not land) warrant investigating? Wasn't that why Clarke was so intent on "shaking the trees" in late 2000, to be able to put these kinds of facts together to get a clear intelligence picture? So his best efforts didn't work? Would "shaking the trees" in July 2001 have had any better result or would it have been another waste of time? "Sounds like a Bush administration story to push the whole events of September 11 back onto Clinton's watch. Just in time for the election." Who said this was Clinton's fault? Not even I think that. "That's fine; but how was the U.S supposed to know which date the attack was going to happen, or which flights would be used." Maybe, but this was much more specific than the vaunted Aug. 6th PDB which by and large merely rehashed known facts (and misinformation). "In the Pearl Harbour case, it was the 'industrialists' who would profit from war production: in 9/11, it was those who wanted to institute a 'Big Brother' form of government." No, no, no, it was Rooseveldt and the liberals who wanted to enter the war to save England and or the Soviet Union. Conservatives were intensely isolationist and industrialists were happiest when they were supplying arms to both sides without actually having to put up with government industrial controls that came with the war. 70% of the US population was against entering WWII (prior to Dec. 7th) and almost all conservatives were dead set against it. That's why something like Pearl Harbor was necessary to change public perception. |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Strick Date: 08 Jun 04 - 10:08 AM "And these days, I think "Senate Intelligence Committee" is largely an oxymoron in the Republican controlled senate. Too many Bush Toadies" Just looked up the composition of the committee. Dianne Feinstein and John Edwards are "Bush Toadies? :D |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Teribus Date: 08 Jun 04 - 10:29 AM The information provided by this "walk-in" waiter from Manchester adds exactly what to the scaps of information that was available from other sources? Little or nothing - he is still talking about hijacking - not using the aircraft themselves as weapons. SRS, you do spout some complete and utter crap at times: "07 Jun 04 - 11:31 AM Sounds like a Bush administration story to push the whole events of September 11 back onto Clinton's watch. Just in time for the election." Pure matter of time-line, SRS, the instigation, implementation, preparation, planning and training for the 9/11 attacks DID all take place during Clinton's watch - FACT. "08 Jun 04 - 01:10 AM Instead figuring out what has made those terrorists so angry (and they speak for a lot of other people) U.S. politicians have been asses on the world stage." Do they speak for a lot of other people SRS? What is your premise for making that statement? So far I can see no evidence to support it. Again go back to the time-line and the various threats that have been issued by Al-Qaeda - all go back way before the present US administration came into office. So which US Politicians are you talking about? The ones who struck rather ineffectively against Al-Qaeda, or the ones who actually did rob them of the only secure base they had and put them firmly on the defensive? |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 08 Jun 04 - 11:56 AM Ooooo! Big Bad Terribus is in fine form... Look out Liberals! Your heads on a platter please. The right to insult and demean is part of the first ammendment too, right? Media tricks are Bush resolve Corroboration scanties With artful blame they still revolve Around those Clinton panties But efforts then behind the scenes To smear an able leader Entrance the public it demeans But not the able reader Clinton's troubles came to roost Behind republications The Coup was started, Bill was juiced For 'Christian right' invasions Lies and more confound the scene As insults fill the air waves But facts remain, our left between Quite covered by the Bush slaves ttr |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Jun 04 - 01:09 PM Ah, Teribus, I know I'm on the right track if you crawl out of the woodwork with your garbled logic. It's a litmus test of sorts here at the Mudcat. No one said all of the senate committee were Bush toadies, the but republican majority certainly seems to be. As long as they can outvote and override the democratic voices, that's what counts, isn't it? Strick, even if you don't think it was Clinton's fault, Rove is relying on Americans to have short memories and knee-jerk patriotic reactions to whatever leaks and news he can get into the headlines running up to the election. It doesn't matter what is really true, it just matters how many gullible Americans can be convinced to vote for Bush based on the innuendo Rove can create. Teribus will be in the front of the line with his straight republican ticket. That's a given. You suggested that despite being outvoted, Democrats can still reach for the mic in public--until recently there was such a paralyzing fear of being branded unpatriotic by the Bush folks and right-wing groups that many democrats, I am ashamed to say, kept their opinions to themselves. This is beginning to change. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Strick Date: 08 Jun 04 - 01:23 PM "You suggested that despite being outvoted, Democrats can still reach for the mic in public--until recently there was such a paralyzing fear of being branded unpatriotic by the Bush folks and right-wing groups that many democrats, I am ashamed to say, kept their opinions to themselves. This is beginning to change." My suggestion is even more simple. Despite the nominal majority Republicans have over the Senate, the Democrats have been perfectly comfortable using the rules to control or at least constrain the agenda there. And I didn't notice Democratic members of the 9/11 Commission and members of either House of Congress acting in the least shy about pointing fingers or at least implying blame during the 9/11 hearings. Nothing's really changed. Both sides do the political calculation before they say anything. There's no reason not to deny this event, and deny it most publically if it's not true. |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: DougR Date: 08 Jun 04 - 04:50 PM No, SRS, what's depressing is reading the negative crap you constantly write about your own country. The U.S. is NEVER right, right? We have identified the enemy and it is the U. S., right? You can be damn glad you live in a country where you are not locked up and the key tossed for constantly criticizing the country of your birth. I suppose your solution to the terrorist threat is to invite them all to tea, and politely ask them what it would take for them to quit killing innocent people. Right? Those poor underpriviledged, misunderstood terrorists. Boo Hoo. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Bobert Date: 08 Jun 04 - 07:32 PM There is not one piece of evidence that proves that the the US would have been hit on 9/11 had Al Gore been president. And it ain't like I'm some kinda Gore guy but Al Quida had the right guy in the White House for maximine sympathy and recruiting opportunties... I'm sure that there were a few high-fives aorund the bin Laden camp when Bush said "Bring it on." Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Jun 04 - 07:36 PM DougR, you have no sense of proportion. And you have no sense of boundaries, either. If the U.S. would stop meddling in other people's business, and on the occasions they do act, do it for altruistic reasons and not because of the price of oil, I would have fewer grounds for complaint. The actions of the Bush crowd are so transparent as to be laughable. You need to get out more. Read a few online papers originating in other countries. See what the rest of the world thinks about the bullying tactics and the self-serving policies of the Bush administration. Then do a little math. Think of the number of countries that could decide to get together to give the U.S. the come-uppance it has earned. Oh, wait, that's what they're doing. Think about all of the people who died on September 11, and realize that the actions of those terrorists were not the acts of cowards, as Bill Mahr boldly stated before his sponsors and his network cowardly cancelled his program. They were the acts of people who spent a lot of time developing a clever and efficient plan to make the world and the U.S. aware of just how angry they were. Now stick with me for a moment Dougie, and I'll put this on a much smaller scale. Last weekend I stepped out my back door and was stung by a wasp. I got out the hose and washed four separate wasp nests off of the back of the house, but I also gave some thought as to why I might have so many wasps back there, and concluded that it was my own fault--I'd hung the hummingbird feeder too close to the house. It now sits out in the middle of the yard and is far enough that I should avoid opportunistic wasp nest building. I'm not about to go and slaughter every wasp I see and in the process kill a bunch of other insects and such. Get it? We did something to attract the terrorist wasps (I recognize the ironic use of this iconic insect!) and instead of figuring out what in the world we're doing wrong to make so very many people angry and going about being better citizens of the world, we go blast apart Afghanistan and Iraq. Well, buddy, that too-close-hummingbird feeder is called Israel. That's the biggest part of the anger against the U.S. And if Israel isn't dealt with as the attractive nuisance that it is, and the government there (that owes its very existence to the U.S.) pursuaded into being better citizens of the world, their citizens will continue to live through the same murderous suicide bombings that have marked their lives for the last several years. Have you noticed, a lot of Israeli citizens are also protesting against their government and the war in Iraq? My remarks are not anti-semitic, my remarks highlight that the U.S. has supported a powderkeg in the Middle East for over 50 years, and now that little trail of gunpowder that leads back here has been ignited. We're not doing ourselves or the Israeli citizens any good by continuing the support the percarious limb that the Israeli government has built it's platform upon. I'm really sorry for you, that you just don't get it. And you still probably won't get it after reading this analysis and those that will no doubt follow. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Jun 04 - 07:47 PM Bill Maher stuff. A comedian you either love or hate. When You Ride Alone You Ride With Bin Laden: What the Government Should Be Telling Us To Help Fight the War on Terrorism. |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: beardedbruce Date: 08 Jun 04 - 08:45 PM Bobert: There is not one piece of evidence that proves that the the US would not have been hit on 9/11 had Al Gore been president. |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Two_bears Date: 08 Jun 04 - 09:06 PM "And these days, I think "Senate Intelligence Committee" is largely an oxymoron in the Republican controlled senate. Too many Bush Toadies" Strick; tould you PM or E-Mail me and tell me where I can buy some of whatever you have been smoking? If there are so many toadies in the Senate; then can you explain why the Democrat senators have been able to block so many judge appointments? |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Two_bears Date: 08 Jun 04 - 09:13 PM No, SRS, what's depressing is reading the negative crap you constantly write about your own country. The U.S. is NEVER right, right? We have identified the enemy and it is the U. S., right? You can be damn glad you live in a country where you are not locked up and the key tossed for constantly criticizing the country of your birth. I suppose your solution to the terrorist threat is to invite them all to tea, and politely ask them what it would take for them to quit killing innocent people. Right? Those poor underpriviledged, misunderstood terrorists. Boo Hoo Thank you so much for posting the truth about the terrorists who's single intent is to KILL anyone that has a different point of view about religion, or the way women appear in movies, have the right to drive, have the right to go to school, have the right to go in public without being covered head to foot in a Burka, etc. Standing and cheering Doug. |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Two_bears Date: 08 Jun 04 - 09:24 PM There is not one piece of evidence that proves that the the US would have been hit on 9/11 had Al Gore been president. And it ain't like I'm some kinda Gore guy but Al Quida had the right guy in the White House for maximine sympathy and recruiting opportunties... I'm sure that there were a few high-fives aorund the bin Laden camp when Bush said "Bring it on." Well; then let's look at the Clinton presidency. ALL of the following Terrorist activity happened DURING the 8 years of President Bill Clinton, and he was not interested in stopping the bloodshed. On THREE stinking times; the Sudan offerered to turn Osama bin Laden over to the U.S. and Clinton wanted no part of it. Gore would have been as much if not more of a disaster than Clinton was. 1992 - Ethnic civil war in city of Kabul, Afghanistan resulted in 50,000 people killed. The Soviet-installed leader Mohammed Najibullah fled. Kajik troops of Mujihadeen Prime Minister Burhanuddin Rabbini and Mujihadeen military commander Ahmed Shah Masood battled with Pashtun troops of warlord Gilbuddin Hekmatyar. (Rabbani and Hekmatyar finally joined forces 6/96 because both were under seige by the Taliban, Hekmatyar endorsing Rabbini as Prime Minister, nevertheless, the Taliban took control of the country 9/96.) 1992 - Osama bin Laden made a proposal to his rivals in the pro-Iran Shiite terrorist organization Hizballah that they set aside their differences, so that they can cooperate in a common objective of killing United States troops stationed in Asia and Africa. 1992 - Bin Laden established legal businesses in Sudan, farms, a tannery, and a construction firm, to increase his available funds, and as fronts for al Qaeda camps he was organizing there. 1992 - Imad Mugniyah allegedly bombed a Christian center in Argentina. 1992 - Hizballah agents bombed the Israeli embassy in Argentina. 1/92 - The Soviet Union dissolved; end of its support for Mohammed Najibullah, the Soviet-installed leader of Afghanistan, however, he remained in power until 9/27/96 when the Taliban overthrew his administration. 12/29/92 - A bomb exploded in a hotel in Aden, Yemen. The hotel had recently been used by US troops preparing to go to Somalia, but all the US troops had already departed. Two Austrian tourists were killed. 2/26/93 Car bomb exploded at 5:12 PM on the second level of parking basement in the World Trade Center, killed 7 and injured hundreds. The bombers also left behind a device designed to release cyanide gas to kill emergency response crews and area residents, but the fire destroyed the cyanide. Bin Laden denied involvement. Ramzi Ahmed Yousef, who had been trained in Afghanistan, was named as an FBI suspect and added to the Ten Most Wanted list, with a $2 million reward. In 1995, Yousef was recognized in Pakistan, arrested, and extradited to the US. Yousef was convicted of planning the 2/26/93 attack and sentenced to life in prison. 8/93 Unsuccessful attampt by the Al-Jihad organization to assassinate Interior Minister Hassan al Alfi of Egypt. 10/93 - 18 U.S. troops involved in the U.S. "humanitarian mission" were killed in Mogadishu, Somalia, when two US helicopters were shot down. The victims were among of 28,000 US troops in Somalia. US news media covered a mob celebrating the killings by dragging the bodies through the streets. (In 1996, the US indicted Osama bin Laden for allegedly training the killers. In 1997, bin Laden admitted involvement in interview with CNN. In 2000, court testimony of al Qaeda defector Jamal Ahmed al-Fadl implicated both Osama bin Laden and Mohammed Atef in planning the killings.) 11/93 - Unsuccessful attampt by the Al-Jihad organization to assassinate Prime Minister Atef Sedky of Egypt. 1994 - Saudi Arabia revoked bin Laden's citizenship. 1994 - Bin Laden's family and relatives publicly "disowned" him due to his crimes. 1994 - Hizballah agents bombed an Israeli cultural center Buenos Aires, Argentina. 8/14/94 Ilich Ramirez-Sanchez, alias, Carlos the Jackal arrested by French Secret Service [DST]. Sentenced to life in prison. 10/12/94 - The Taliban militia conquered the city of Kandahar, Afghanistan. 1995 - The Islamic Jihad organization bombed the Egyptian embassy in Pakistan 1995 - Foiled plot to bomb 12 U.S. airliners. FBI named Khalid Shaikh Mohammed as suspect. 3/20/95 Japanese terrorists of the Aum (or Aum Shinrikyo) cult, which believes that the end of the world is imminent, released Sarin nerve gas into Tokyo subway trains. 12 killed and approximately 5,000 to 6,000 injured. 10/95 Japanese government revoked Aum's classification as a religious organization, but decided not to invoke a law that would have outlawed the organization. Suspect Shoko Asahara, who founded the cult in 1987, imprisoned by the Japanese government. 4/19/95 Timothy McVeigh, of the US anti-government militia American Christian Patriots, caused truck bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 and injuring hundreds. Many US news commentators accused Islamic militants, who were not involved. 6/95 - Unsuccessful attempt by the Islamic Group organization to assassinate President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt while he was in Ethiopia. 11/13/95 - Truck bombing of US National Guard training center in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. 7 people killed, including 5 US military personnel. (Later, four suspects were convicted by Saudi court and executed by decapitation.) 6/25/96 - Truck bombing of Khobar Towers in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, a residence of US military personnel. 19 US military personnel were killed. FBI suspects Ahmed Ibrahim al-Mughassil, Ibrahim al-Yacoub and Abdel Karim al-Nasser were indicted. 8/23/96 - Date on bin Laden's written "declaration" of attack against the US. The document was written and published about two months after the bombing in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. Demands included the removal of US troops from Saudi Arabia, and the overthrow of the government of Saudi Arabia. 9/11/96 - The Taliban militia conquered the city of Jalalabad, Afghanistan 9/26/96 Mujihadeen military commander Ahmed Shah Masood fled from the Afghan city of Kabul, due to the imminant invasion by the Taliban. 9/27/96 - The Taliban militia conquered the capital city of Kabul, Afghanistan. The Taliban acquired power in Afghanistan by overthrowing the government of Mohammed Najibullah, the political leader who had acquired power after the departure of the Soviet invaders, was executed by hanging on a public street. 1996 - Taliban closed Kabul University; male students permitted only high school education. Female students over the age of 12 banned from all schools, and ordered to stay at home most of the time to perform housework. Many other repressive laws enacted. 1996 - After the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan, the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Islam political party in Pakistan assisted organization of terrorist training camps in Afghanistan. 1996 - Responding to a request from the US government, Sudan expelled bin Laden. He returned to Afghanistan, setting up a training facility near the city of Jalalabad, and further organizing al Qaeda as an international network. 5/23/97 - Taliban militia conquered the city of Mazar-i-Sharif, Afghanistan. Eleven diplomats from Iran were executed. 5/24/97 - Pakistan formally recognized the Taliban government. 1997 - CNN interviewed bin Laden. He said, in part, "We declared a jihad against the United States because it is unjust, criminal, and tyrannical." Without directly taking credit for the actions, he mentioned the 1995 killing of 7 US troops in Riyadh and the 1996 killing of 19 US troops in Dharan as examples of the jihad. February 1998 - Bin Laden published declaration which included the objective: "To kill Americans and their allies, civilians and military, is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it, in any country in which it is possible to do it." 8/7/98 - A car bomb exploded outside US embassy in Nairobi, Kenya. A few hours later, explosion at US embassy in Dar es Salaam, capital of tanzania. In both attacks, 224 people were killed and almost 5,000 were injured. (Later, a suspect was arrested and he said he was a member of al Qaeda. The US Justice Department indicted 17 member of al Qaeda, including bin Laden, for the two embassy bombings. 4 of the 17 were later arrested and convicted; 13 remained at large.) 8/20/98 - 13 days after the bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, U.S. bombarded several locations in Khost, Afghanistan, and one location in Sudan, with Tomahawk missiles. The attacks were announced on the same day by President Clinton during televised press briefing. The President identified Osama bin Laden and his terrorist training camp as a target in Khost. Bin Laden survived by leaving the destroyed camp in Afghanistan shortly before the attack. One of the missiles launched into Sudan destroyed the country's major pharmaceutical factory warehouse, which the US government asserted to be in use as a terrorist weapons warehouse. 9/11/98 The United Nations announced that it had confirmed an accusation by Amnesty International that the Taliban government of Afghanistan had massacred thousands of people near Mazar-i-Sharif in 8/98. The killings were committed because the victims were of the Hazara ethnic group and of the Shiite denomination of Islam. The UN determined that the number of victims, between 4,000 and 6,000 people, was about three times more than AI had alleged. 11/98 - US Justice Dept indicted Osama bin Laden for the 8/7/98 bombing of the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. 12/98 - The Aden Abyan Islamic Army (AAIA) in Yemen took 17 hostages. In a raid by the Yemen police, 4 of the hostages were freed and 13 of the hostages were killed. AAIA leader Zein al-Abideen al-Mehdar was arrested and executed. 1998 - Reporter John Miller of ABC News interviewed bin Laden, who said, in part, "Our battle against the Americans is far greater than our battle was against the Russians. We anticipate a black future for America. Instead of remaining United States, it shall end up separated states and shall have to carry the bodies of its sons back to America." 1/12/99 - In Peshawar, Pakistan, intruders entered the house of Afghan political moderate Abdul Haq, who was not at home. The intruders killed his wife and 11-year-old son. 3/27/99 - In Peshawar, Pakistan, Mohammed Jehanzeb, the secretary of anti-Taliban organizer Haji Qadir, the brother of Adbul Haq, was assassinated. 4/23/99 The Human Rights Commission of the United Nations issued condemnation of persistent human rights abuses by the Taliban government of Afghanistan. 9/99 - On two separate days, Chechen terrorists bombed apartment buildings in Moscow, Russia. 212 were killed. 1/16/99 US Justice Department indicted bin Laden and 11 other members of al Qaeda for killing and conspiring to kill US citizens internatiionally. FBI placed bin Laden in its Most Wanted list, with a reward of $5 million for information leading to his arrest and conviction. (In 2001, the reward was increased to $25 million.) 10/15/99 United Nations Security Council unanimously adopted a resolution imposing sanctions on the Taliban government of Afghanistan. The UNSC said that the Taliban must turn over Osama bin Laden "without further delay to appropriate authorities in a country where he has been indicted, or to appropriate authorities in a country where he will be returned to such a country, or to appropriate authorities in a country where he will be arrested and effectively brought to justice." 2/00 -- An al Qaeda defector, Jamal Ahmed al-Fadl testified in the trial of four men accused in the bombings of the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. He revealed many details about the al Qaeda network. The four defendants were convicted. ("Jamal al Fadl, an al Qaeda defector who testified in the trial of four men convicted in the 1998 embassy bombings, illuminated an organization structured with bin Laden and his consultative council at the top, surrounded by committees to handle business enterprises, military training, religious policy and even publicity." -- Washington Post, 9/15/01) Al-Fadl testified that he was born and raised in Sudan, moved to the US, then moved back to Sudan in 1991 to work for an al Qaeda office in Khartoum. He decided to defect after he realized he was in trouble for having embezzled $100,000 from bin Laden's fund. He also testified that bin Laden had tried to buy uranium from black market sources for $1.5 million, presumably in an attempt to develop nuclear weapons. 7/2/2000 - United States National Park Service released a commissioned report concluding that national monuments which attract tourists, such as the Lincoln Memorial and the Washington Monument, are likely targets terrorist attacks. 9/28/00 - Start of the New Intifiada, a Palestinian rebellion against Israeli occupation 10/12/00 - Suicide bombing of the U.S.S. Cole. The ship was refueling at the port city of Aden in Yemen when attacked. A boat filled with explosives got near the Cole and exploded, producing a large hole in the ship. 17 US sailors were killed and 37 were injured. Bin Laden released a videotape, claiming responsibility for attack. |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Two_bears Date: 08 Jun 04 - 09:26 PM DougR, you have no sense of proportion. And you have no sense of boundaries, either. If the U.S. would stop meddling in other people's business, and on the occasions they do act, do it for altruistic reasons and not because of the price of oil, I would have fewer grounds for complaint. The actions of the Bush crowd are so transparent as to be laughable No Stilly. You and others like you are living in a dream world that is NOT real. There ARE evil people, and they DO want to destroy us and our way of life. I am glad honorable soldiers are protecting your right to be an arse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Bobert Date: 08 Jun 04 - 09:36 PM See, that's exactly what I'd expect from a couple of knotheaded, died in the wool Bushites... A lot of hot air, spin and blame Clinton... Neither of you two talk about Bush's Middleeast policy, or lack there of. Neither of you look at the distrust of the Bush family by the Arab world... You try to keep your focus in this tiny little magnifying glass that doesn't allow you to see the big picture.. Okay, quiz time... Other than yer guy, Bush, under whoes watch did the largest terrorist operation agaisnt the United States and or its citizens occur since Pearl Harbor? A. Gerald Ford B. Bill Clinton C. Jimmy Carter D. Ronald Reagan Hmmmmmm? See what I mean? Now I want both of you all to get tested fir tunnel vision, tomorrow. Don't wait and don't hesitate.... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Two_bears Date: 08 Jun 04 - 09:50 PM See, that's exactly what I'd expect from a couple of knotheaded, died in the wool Bushites... A lot of hot air, spin and blame Clinton... I did not vote for G. W. Bush the first time, and I will not vote for him this time because he is determined to take more of our freedoms away. Of the 9 Democratic nominees running for the Democratic nomination; the ONLY person I could have voted for is Joseph Lieberman because he was the ONLY Democrat that understands that we are in a war for our lives. I would vote for Condaleeza Rice, Collin powell, Jean Kirkpatric. and about 1000 other people before I would vote for Bush. Unfortunately with the two major parties; the choice is tweedle dum and tweedle dumber. I will be voting a third party. I guess facts do not matter to you. I supplied a list of terrorist activities around the world when Clinton was president. Now Clinton talked tough on terrorism; but what did he do? Send a few $million of missles into empty Al Qaeda training bases, empty tents, and an aspirin factory. Clinton REPEATEDLY demonstrated weakness before a determined agressor. What is your explaination? |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: beardedbruce Date: 08 Jun 04 - 10:04 PM Two bears: You miss the point- if one does not blame Bush for everything, then one might actually have to acknowledge that there is a real threat. This is a very frightening thing. Most people, when confronted with something that is such a threat look for some way to minimize it, make it go away, or become someone else's problem. Bobert: "Other than yer guy, Bush, under whoes watch did the largest terrorist operation agaisnt the United States and or its citizens occur since Pearl Harbor?" So you class George W. Bush on a par with FDR?????? I would not be quite that generous, but if that is what you think... |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Bobert Date: 08 Jun 04 - 10:30 PM Check the batteries in yer thinkerator, bearded-one. I ain't puttin' Bush in FDR class, In the word of Larry Holmes, I wouldn't let Bush carry FDR's jock strap... Yo, Bears. Okay, swo you you ain't a Bushite. Certainly sound like one but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt... BTW, got an anawer to the quiz? Nevermind... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: beardedbruce Date: 08 Jun 04 - 10:43 PM Funny thing Bobaer, it seemed like you were. What is this about Pearl Harbor? If Bush is at fault for 9/11, then FDR gets Pearl Harbor. or is that too complicated for you? Check YOUR batteries. Or are you saying that since you do not put Bush in the same class, Bush has no responsibility for 9/11? Try and make up your mind here: Your "under whoes watch did the largest terrorist operation agaisnt the United States and or its citizens occur since Pearl Harbor" tells me that you consider 9/11 to be at the level of Pearl Harbor: ANd you seem to be looking for the answer that the president in office is at fault. SO, what do you mean?????????????????????? |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Bobert Date: 08 Jun 04 - 11:05 PM Well, yeah, bb... There's at least some evidence that FDR could have prevented 12/6 but I don't compare 12/6 with 9/11. The only reason I brought up 12/6 was to cover from someone saying, "Hey, Bobert, how 'bout 12/6? Gotta start somewhere when giving these quizes 'er else someone would be bringing up the First Battle of Manassas... And, BTW, *'s in front of and behind things you'd like to emphasize are preferred to the caps... As fir faults, hey, some stuff that happens under one president or another falls on him or doesn't. I think more cause 'n effect. Does Bill Clinton get a lot of credit for the strong economy in the 90's? Well, no. All he did was not screw it up. Does Reagan deserve credit for ending a cycle of high interest and unemployment? No, but like Clinton, he didn't screw it up. Both screwed up lots of other stuff tho... But as for Bush? Yeah, I think he did send an unmistaken message to the MiddleEsat that he wasn't interested in anything that Clinton had done and in doing so has to be looked at at least as an accomplice in creating an atmosphere where a bin Laden could say, "Do it now"... Cause and effect... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: beardedbruce Date: 08 Jun 04 - 11:30 PM "Yeah, I think he did send an unmistaken message to the MiddleEsat that he wasn't interested in anything that Clinton had done and in doing so has to be looked at at least as an accomplice in creating an atmosphere where a bin Laden could say, "Do it now"..." You may choose to think so, but I see no evidence of it. The planning, training and such were done before the election, as far as we can tell. I do not see a "cause and effect" here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Two_bears Date: 08 Jun 04 - 11:52 PM You miss the point- if one does not blame Bush for everything, then one might actually have to acknowledge that there is a real threat. This is a very frightening thing. Most people, when confronted with something that is such a threat look for some way to minimize it, make it go away, or become someone else's problem. Bruce; this threat is worse than the wacky Austrian with a bad mustache and haircut ever thought of being. He just hated black, Jews, homosexuals, and others. These Muslim extremists (less than 2% of the Muslim population) are willing to kill ANYONE (including their Muslim brothers and sisters) to destroy the Jews and the rest of the civilized world. Excuse me; but I am NOT interested in reverting to the 7th century CE where a child's hand is cut off for stealing, having the tongue cut out or forced to swallow lye for lying, etc, forcibly having little girl's clitoris' surgicaly removed, etc. |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Jun 04 - 11:56 PM Geez, you guys are dense tonight. Beardedbruce, did you read the quiz? It was only one question.
A. Gerald Ford B. Bill Clinton C. Jimmy Carter D. Ronald Reagan The question is written in such a way to exclude Pearl Harbor. The answer is Reagan. It happened in the Middle East. It was the 1983 bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut. That's in Lebanon. Here are the dates so you don't have to take off your shoes to count backward to the Reagan administration. There ARE evil people, and they DO want to destroy us and our way of life. Two Bears, when one lives in a glass house, as the saying goes, one shouldn't throw stones. When you live it up in that glass house, and tell everyone around you how to behave yet you're clearly not living up to the standards you want everyone else to meet, you have problems. Why was the prisoner abuse so appalling to so many people in the last few weeks? Because those in America who realize that Bush's "Do as I say not as I do" policy of "liberating" Iraq from a tyrant while in fact tyrannizing many of its people, including prisoners of war, who were supposedly liberated, is to seal the fates of many of our troups not just in Iraq but in other sensitive areas around the world. The double standard that comes with that glass house is in effect--we don't have to pay attention to the Geneva Conventions because ours is a higher mission (bullshit!). And when much of the world is standing with its face pressed against the glass walls of our house looking in as we consume the best of everything and become the most obese nation on earth because we eat and consume so much, often obtained by multi-national corporations who don't pay living wages to workers in third world countries, you can bet we're not going to get a helluva lot of sympathy when we mess up. And thanks to Bush and his pals, and the lineage that comes through his father directly from Reagan, the U.S. is indeed the land of The Ugly American. So take off your blinders. Those "evil" people in your little binary of good versus evil are VERY ANGRY PEOPLE who've had it up to here with the behavior of this colonial power in particular and others in general. Some of those angry people used to be our friends, and we sponsored them in their (usually warlike) endeavors when it was convenient to do so. Some of them got used to an elevated standard of living, only to be dumped later, some of them already had earned it themselves. Many of them were victimized by the western world when the United Nations and Britain took Palestine and shoved all sorts of artificial boundaries and royal leaders down their throats. Others have been pissed off ever since World War I when the British and other European nations carved up the lands that are now Turkey, Iran, Iraq, etc. When you play those kinds of favoritism games and ignore cultures and political preferences, you create one big mess. Now we're paying for it. I happen to think that if we behaved in a civil manner around the rest of the world we could solve a few problems. But not the way Dubya deals with them. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Two_bears Date: 08 Jun 04 - 11:57 PM Yo, Bears. Okay, swo you you ain't a Bushite. Certainly sound like one but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt... BTW, got an anawer to the quiz? Appology accepted. No I am NOT a Bushite. Thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt. That quiz is irrelevant; because the civilized world has a very big threat named Muslim Extremist terrorists. If we are still here after the extremists have been brought forward to the 1500s (after the know the world is not flat) I will consider your exam. |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: beardedbruce Date: 08 Jun 04 - 11:59 PM Bobert: "There's at least some evidence that FDR could have prevented 12/6" As opposed to Bush, where there is no evidence? Two bears: I agree, but you are frightening the children. They do not like this story, it is too scary, so they want a nice fairy tale about kittens and butterflies. Far better than facing facts and doing something about it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Two_bears Date: 09 Jun 04 - 12:40 AM Two Bears, when one lives in a glass house, as the saying goes, one shouldn't throw stones. When you live it up in that glass house, and tell everyone around you how to behave yet you're clearly not living up to the standards you want everyone else to meet, you have problems. None are as blind as those that refuse to see. The U.S. was attached by Al Qaeda at least 10 times BEFORE 9/11 amd you dismiss it as the U.S.'s fault. You have my pity. Why was the prisoner abuse so appalling to so many people in the last few weeks? Because those in America who realize that Bush's "Do as I say not as I do" policy of "liberating" Iraq from a tyrant while There is not one SCINTILLA of proof that the Iraqi abuse in Abu Grahib was Bush's fault. How about the failure of Brigadere General Karpenske (SP) Are you aware that she was relieved of command because of her incompetence when she was a Captain? She should have been demoted to private and given a court martial. we don't have to pay attention to the Geneva Conventions because ours is a higher mission (bullshit!). Excuse me; but is anyone home; or did you just leave the lights on? Every person in Abu Grahib was accused of crimes. They were attacking the troups, and they could not be considered as civilians. They were not Iraqi army. They were enemy combatants; so the Geneva convention did not apply to them. The fact that you lack understanding amazes me. It IS true that some Iraqi detainees were abused, and the guilty parties SHOULD be punished. But PLEASE cool the emotional jets, and allow logic and gasp REASON to fing and punish the guilty. If there is proof that Bush is guilty or directed the abuse; then so be it. He can be punished with the rest. the glass walls of our house looking in as we consume the best of everything and become the most obese nation on earth because we eat and consume so much, often obtained by multi-national corporations That is NOT america's fault. The Terrorists could work to improve their land and help get rid of the corrupt Mullahs that keep their people is abject poverty. Can't you understand this simple idea either? who don't pay living wages to workers in third world countries, you can bet we're not going to get a helluva lot of sympathy when we mess up. And thanks to Bush and his pals, and the lineage that comes Well let's see. what is a living wage to a person that has nothing, has no hope of gaining anything, and if he does gain anything he is immediately a threat from every villan that wants what he has, and will kill to take it. The answer is for the terrorists to assist in removing the corrupt leaders like Saddam Hussein that use $BILLIONS to build palaces the size of Washington DC. The problem is the average Muslims in Iraq, Iran, etc have no concept of freedom, and modern society. Unfortunately; I do not see many Patrick Henry, or Thomas Payne, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, etc working to improve their standing in life. So take off your blinders. Those "evil" people in your little binary of good versus evil are VERY ANGRY PEOPLE who've had it up to I suggest that you look in the mirror and check for your own blinders before trying to help me. If you want to think I am wearing blinders; then so be it; but I have received the title master eight times, and work to make the world a better place as an energy healer. What have you done other that take the opinion of someone with an agenda (such as hatred for the President) as gospel just because you emotionaly believe it? others in general. Some of those angry people used to be our friends, and we sponsored them in their (usually warlike) endeavors I am well aware of that. The Shia muslims were suggested to work to improve their standing. then when Saddam masacred many of them; America did NOT keep it's word because of weak leadership. when the British and other European nations carved up the lands that are now Turkey, Iran, Iraq, etc. When you play those kinds of favoritism games and ignore cultures and political preferences, you I will admit that the UK had no business doing that. Just as Richard the Lionhearted. and others during the Crusades had no business doing that either. What is in the past; can not be changed; so all 6 billion people on earth have to start where they are now, and work to improve their part of the world. I happen to think that if we behaved in a civil manner around the rest of the world we could solve a few problems. But not the way Dubya deals with them. That won't help. The extremists want to reclaim the Ottoman empire, and go back to the 7th century CE, and they do not care who they have to kill to accomplish that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Two_bears Date: 09 Jun 04 - 12:43 AM I agree, but you are frightening the children. They do not like this story, it is too scary, so they want a nice fairy tale about kittens and butterflies. Bruce; I would be happy to tell them a fairy tale; but not when there are extremists that are intent on killing us. |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Stilly River Sage Date: 09 Jun 04 - 01:05 AM I get it! Karl Rove has taken over Two Bears' house and is logging on with his Mudcat cookie. Another dirty trick revealed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: beardedbruce Date: 09 Jun 04 - 01:11 AM Two Bears, It will take something drastic, like a nuclear bomb in Seattle or Baltimore for them to wake up- then they will scream "You should have done something!" I ( try to ) believe that most of them are actually well-meaning. Sometimes it is hard. I think it might have to hit close to them for them to wake up- and I fear that they will demand an excessive reaction, just as they now demand an insufficient one. I can envision a democratic administration using H-bombs on Mecca, for example. I find the Patriot act to be truely frightning: now that the precedent has been set, how long until those powers are used against, say, those people who are not raising their children in the "approved" manner? A great threat to the welfare of the state! Or those who insist on plitically incorrect attitudes? can see the uses President Hilary might make of it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Two_bears Date: 09 Jun 04 - 01:19 AM I get it! Karl Rove has taken over Two Bears' house and is logging on with his Mudcat cookie Apparently; not only are you ignorant (or choosing to be ignorant). You are also unable to read too. I have stated in at least four different threads; there are at least 1,000 people I would vote for; before I would vote for G.W. Bush. I do not like the way G.W. Bush is weakening the freedom of U.S. citizens, and unwilling to do the basics to protect America from the terrorists that want to kill us. Bush is right in trying to bring terrorists to justice; but he is unwilling to protect America by securing the borders with Mexico where more than 50,000 undocumented aliens stream across the border EVERY MONTH. If you want to continue to demonstrate your ignorance; don't let me stop you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Two_bears Date: 09 Jun 04 - 01:38 AM It will take something drastic, like a nuclear bomb in Seattle or Baltimore for them to wake up- then they will scream "You should have done something!" That is like closing the barn door AFTER the horse runs away. I fear there are going to be three Nuclear bombs. New York, Chicago, and L.A. I ( try to ) believe that most of them are actually well-meaning. Sometimes it is hard. I think it might have to hit close to them for them to wake up- and I fear that they will demand an excessive That is why it is frightening. They believe propoganda to be truth. reaction, just as they now demand an insufficient one. I can envision a democratic administration using H-bombs on Mecca, for example. I know. After 9/11 I heard callers to talk shows recommend Nuking three sites. Afghanistan/Pakistan border to wipe out Osama bin Laden, Mecca, and Medina. The terrorists intent on killing us; make up less than 2% of the Muslim population. Killing 1/2 a billion people indiscriminately is a declaration of war and NOT the answer. Anyone that recomments something so stupid would kill flies with a shotgun. The Answer is infiltration then arrest (if possible) the terrorists. If arrest is not possible; then eliminate them. I find the Patriot act to be truely frightning: now that the precedent has been set, how long until those powers are used against, say, those people who are not raising their children in Could not agree more. It would seem as if George Orwell was off by 20 years (2004 instead of 1984) That is only ONE of the many reasons I can not vote for Bush, and would be happy to vote for more than 1000 people before I could vote for Bush or Kerry (tweedle dum, and tweedle dumber in that order. The ONLY thing I can agree on with Bush is "There are extremists that want to kill us!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: Two_bears Date: 09 Jun 04 - 01:40 AM I will say two things for G.W. Bush. "even a blind pig will find an acorn once in a while." "Even a stopped clock has the right time twice a day." I can not say either one of those in favor of Kerry. |
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Subject: RE: BS: OK, Maybe 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented From: beardedbruce Date: 09 Jun 04 - 01:42 AM It is not that I like Bush, but the Dems are not running anyone FOR president- just against Bush. |
