Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Rob Armstrong)

Subject: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From: Gurney
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 06:37 AM

30 years ago, Rob Armstrong, then in Coventry, used to sing what was possibly a parody of 'Pretty Baby.' He sang it with Rod Felton, 'The New Modern Idiot Grunt Band.'It had a driving, jug-bandish tune, and I would like the words, or a recording if it is available.

I know Rod Felton is still performing, he guested at Bedworth last year.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 07:32 AM

Could this possibly be the 1920s/30s jazz number 'Ugly Child' written by George Brunies (a great trombonist)?

Grame Bell's Australian Jazz Band recorded a superb performance of this unusual love song on Aus Regal Zonophone in the 1950s with Roger Bell on vocal.

You some ugly
You some ugly
You some ugly child
The clothes that you wear are not in style
You look like an ape every time you smile

(I forget the next three lines, but it ends...)

There's a curse on your family
And it fell on you
Your teeth are yeller
Who's your feller?
You're such an ugly child.

Quite touching, really and easily adaptable to insult either male or female.   I don't know whether the Bell version has ever been reissued. It should be.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 07:34 AM

For 'Grame' read 'Graeme'. Sorry Graeme.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 10:18 AM

Library of Congress catalog also shows that Brunies himself recorded 'Ugly Child' for Commodore (date not stated ) and this performance was reisued in a collected edition of Commodore jazz classics on the Mosaic label.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 11:33 AM

The missing lines are :-

How I hate you , you alligator bait you ,

The homeliest thing I ever saw

Etc

Subject: Lyr/Chords Add: UGLY CHILD (from Chris Barber)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 12:54 PM

Actually dug out an old Chris Barber album - Its credited to Spencer Williams , and Ottilie Pattersons vocal is :-

C                  A7
You're so ugly , You're so ugly child
D7            G7   C
You're some ugly child
E7                                 G7   
Now the clothes that you wear are not in style
D7                      G      
You look like an ape everytime you smile
C                   A7
How I hate you , you alligator bait you
D7
The homeliest thing I ever saw
             F
Oh you're knockkneed pigeon toed and box ankled too
            C             E7            A7
There's a curse on your family and it fell on you
       C                A7
You're hair is nappy , Whose your Pappy ?
D7       G7    C
Your some ugly child


The vocal then repeats after some instrumental with a different last couplet :-

Your hair is yellow , whose your Fellow

You're some ugly child


And I am NOT guaranteeing the accuracy of the chord run - A Jazz Guitarist I definately aint , but they are adjacent to the tune as I know it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 04:20 PM

Thanks Lead. Even when I thought i knew all the words (way back) I could never catch that 'box-ankled' bit, hearing it as 'bock zangertoo'.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 06:51 PM

And after I posted that lot I looked at the sleeve again and it IS the Brunies parody (lyrics) of S Williams 1926 original . Now all we need is a proper musician to post the right Chord Run .

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 15 Jun 04 - 02:39 AM

Which raises the question - What were the original words? Must be around somewhere.

Now all we want is for Gurney to tell us that we've got the wrong song!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From: Gurney
Date: 15 Jun 04 - 03:51 AM

Yep, it is the wrong one, but a good one.

Rob's one has a chorus something like;

"you're so ugly, you must have been a very ugly child.
You're so ugly, baby, you're driving everybody wild!"

It sounded English-English to me, whereas this posted one sounds American-English, but I haven't heard it for 30 years.

I have several Barber LP's, but it isn't on them.

Many thanks for your efforts. Perhaps I should re-write it.

The delay in replying is because I live in New Zealand, out of time step with most.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 15 Jun 04 - 04:22 AM

Ah well- We quite enjoyed raking out our memories of the wrong one!

Everybody. all round the world, is out of step with time, except us folks here in Greenwich. We invented it (the mean sort I mean). But we still mess around with it in the summer. Iwish we wouldn't.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From: Gurney
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 12:07 AM

Never fret about BST, Billy. You would only get woken up by the Sparrows coughing.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From: Billy Weeks
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 03:22 PM

But at least I have the advantage of being the right way up.

Subject: Lyr Add: YOU'RE SOME PRETTY DOLL and UGLY CHILE
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 09:58 PM

Lyrics copied from http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/y/youresomeprettydoll.shtml

YOU'RE SOME PRETTY DOLL
(Clarence Williams - 1917)

You're so pretty, oh, so pretty.
You're some pretty doll.
You've got the kind of eyes that seem to talk.
They make me get so nervous that I have to walk.
Oh, I love you, how I love you,
More and more each day!
You've got some smile. You're pretty too,
And I've a million dollars that I'll spend on you,
'Cause you're so pretty, oh, so pretty,
You're some pretty doll.

Now listen, Dolly: come over here.
There's something I must whisper in your ear.
You've got me hanging 'round you like a child.
It seems as if you're goin' to drive me wild.
These words I tell you are really true,
And what I say I'll surely do.
Oh, you're cute and handsome. I can't help but fall.
You're just a perfect doll.

Your baby ways and your loving smile,
It sets my heart jumping all the while.
Those charming little curls and dimples too,
They make me know that it is you, just you.
I wonder if your dear heart is mine.
If so, it is a joy divine.
Oh, won't you tell me and put my heart at ease?
Oh, for a loving squeeze!

You're so pretty, oh, so pretty.
You're some pretty doll.
You've got the kind of eyes that seem to talk.
They make me get so nervous that I have to walk.
Oh, I love you, how I love you,
More and more each day
You've got some smile. You're pretty too.
And I've a million dollars that I'll spend on you,
'Cause you're so pretty, oh, so pretty,
You're some pretty doll.

****************

ALTERNATE VERSION:

UGLY CHILE (YOU'RE SOME PRETTY DOLL)
(Clarence Williams with added lyrics by Johnny Mercer)
Johnny Mercer - 1947

You're so pretty, oh, so pretty.
You're some pretty doll.
You've got the kind of eyes that seem to talk.
They make me get so nervous that I have to walk.
Oh, I love you, how I love you,
More and more each day.
You've got some smile. You're pretty too.
I've got a million dollars that I'll spend on you,
'Cause you're so pretty, oh, so pretty.
You're some pretty doll.

Now that's the way my folks would always sing to me,
When I was just a blossom on my family tree;
But when I got around to datin' my first chick,
This is what she said, an' did she spread it thick:

Hey, you're ugly, oh, so ugly.
You're some ugly chile.
The clothes you wear are not in style.
You look like an ape every time you smile.
How I hate you, you alligator bait, you.
Why don't you lay down and die.
How I hate you, you alligator bait, you.
An' here's the reason why:

You're knock-kneed, pigeon-toed, box-ankled.
You're big-foot, barefoot, slue-footed too.
How'd they ever get a pair of shoes on you?
Your short and squatty, just nobody.
You're some Ugly Chile.
What a joke on your family when along comes you!
You're dippy, dappy, hey, slap happy,
You're some Ugly Chile!

Subject: Lyr Add: UGLY CHILD (Lemon Nash)
From: GUEST,soybean
Date: 07 Jul 04 - 02:51 PM

Interesting. I just got a CD by Lemon Nash, an old time blues singer from New Orleans. He claims to be the original writer of this song and that Brunis stole it from him. His lyrics are a bit different. After a spoken introduction about different types of "heat" he sings:

You some ugly, I know you're ugly… you some ugly child.
The clothes you wear are tailor-made style,
But you look just like an ape every time you smile.

How I hate you, you alligator bait you, the ugliest thing I ever saw
'Cause you're knock-kneed, box-ankled and pigeon-toed too.
The curse in your family must have fell on you,
And your hair is nappy. Who in the world could be your pappy?
You some ugly child. (Can't you hear me?) You some ugly child!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From: GUEST,soybean
Date: 07 Jul 04 - 08:37 PM

I went back and listened to the Lemon Nash version of Ugly Child again. He sings a verse before the main part of the song. Here it is:

I met a girl
Twas on one sunny day
She said, "Come and see me some time,
I live right back in the Rey (?)

Everybody called her Ugly Suzie Mae
Just because she looked so frail
But I'm a guy who really love to have a lot of fun
So listen to this funny song I sung…

(etc.)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From: GUEST,Karl
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 05:43 PM

I was in Coventry during the passed thre weeks and met Roddy in his lokal Pub "Foresters Arms". We´ve had good conversation and a couple of beers together and as I asked him what kind of art he´s doing he gave me this CD recorded in the late 60es. Now I´m back in Germany and heared this songs from the new modern idiot Grunt Band, I remembered he told me from some fans in NZ who asking for his songs. Do you get it or you still interested?
Regards from Bavaria

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From: GUEST,Azizi
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 11:11 PM

This is purely speculation, but....

A Goldie Hawn movie entitled Wildcats has a segment in which an African American cheerleading squad performs a syncopated routine to this chant:

U-G-L-Y
You ain''t got no alibi.
You ugly
Hey Hey
You ugly.

M-O-M-M-A
That is how you got that way.
Yo Momma
Hey Hey
Yo Mama
--
The cheerleaders were directing this insult to the opposing cheerleading team.

There is probably no way of knowing, but given the way fragments of folk songs show up all over the place, it's possible that this Ugly Baby song could be related to this urban cheer.

Of course, rips like this cheer and the insults which make up the Ugly Baby song can't always be taken lightly by those on the receiving end.

As an African American, I'm mindful of the fact that for too long many people in this nation used only one standard of beauty that judged us as "less than". Perhaps, for that reason, it is heartening to me how many Black secular slave songs refer to Black women as a "pretty girls". I consider the "pretty mama" descriptors in Blues songs to be a continuation of this beautiful Black women referent.

It's a long road we've traveled from putting down the girl whose hair is nappy as in the Ugly Baby song to the late 1990s African American saying that was printed on tee shirts:
                      I'm happy
                      to be
                      nappy.

And we're still walking that road ....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From: Gurney
Date: 08 Aug 04 - 03:16 AM

Karl, thanks, yes, I now have that CD of The New Modern Idiot Grunt Band, courtesy of Rod Felton himself and by way of catter Dave4Guild. I don't think it was ever an issued record, but a remake of a private tape recording at a gig, and it is real, and it takes me back.
I love live recordings, they haven't the polish of studio efforts but then, I like folk music.

Don't know if I'll ever sing Ugly Baby, it is truly insulting and the intro supposes it is about a real person, but it is really quite gratifying to see how accurate my long-term memory is.
Now, if I could only remember where I put my car keys.....

Public thanks here to Dave, to add to my private ones.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From:
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 02:39 PM

I know the words by heart - My brother and I used to sing it when we were children in the 60s because we thought it was hysterical!

You're so ugly, man you're ugly
You're some ugly child
Your feet are big, your clothes out of style
You look like an ape every time you smile
How I hate you, you alligator bait you
Why don't you lay down and die?

You're knock-kneed, pigeon toed, slew-footed too
Your family had a curse and it fell on you
Your hair is nappy, who's your pappy?
You're some ugly child.


I never thought of it as a song that was talking about African Americans - we just thought it was a song about somebody ugly or dorky.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Sep 10 - 12:38 PM

it was on a chris barber EP

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From: GUEST,DAVE.CASTLEMAN
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 11:04 AM

YOU'RE SOME UGLY CHILD: MUSIC IS FATS WALLER'S "PRETTY BABY"
RED ALLEN ,TRUMPERT PLAYER, USE TO SING THIS AT THE "SAVOY" ON MASS. AVE IN BOSTON IN LATE 1940'S EARLY 50'S.

YOU'RE SO UGLY,
AWFUL UGLY
YOU'RE SOME UGLY CHILD

THE CLOTHES THAT YOU WEAR ARE NOT IN STYLE
YOU LOOK LIKE AN APE EVERY TIME YOU SMILE

OH HOW I HATE YOU
YOU ALLIGATOR BAIT YOU
YOU KNOW YOU DRIVE ME WILD

YOU'RE KNOCK KNEED,BOW LEGGED PIGEON TOED TOO
THERE'S A CURSE ON YOUR FAMILY AND IT FELL ON YOU
YOUR HAIR IS NAPPY. WHOSE YOUR PAPPY
YOUR SOME UGLY CHILD.

(SECOND ENDING) YOUR TEETH ARE YELLOW. WHOSE YOUR FELLOW
YOUR SOME UGLY CHILD.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From: Gurney
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 01:57 AM

Well, all the lines quoted in the whole thread are from a song/s other than the one I wanted. Rob Armstrong's one was gender-specific, and presumably, as I said nearly eight years ago, about a certain unnamed female. I may even have known her, but I hope not!

Specimen verse:
Your Mum told you to clean your teeth
You went up to your room,
You threw your teeth upon the floor
And cleaned them with a broom....

You can see a similarity between the two songs there.
Wonder which one Chris Barber recorded.
I'd only remembered how funny it was, not how insulting. I must have mellowed.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From: GUEST,Nicemark
Date: 03 Jun 14 - 05:26 PM

I have the lyrics from a New Modern Idiot Grunt Band show I recorded in Stafford in the '70s

Ugly Song

Well you know I like your father and I like you mother too,
And I really dig your brother oh but baby I hate you.

'Cos you're ugly,
Well you must have been a very very ugly child,
You're so damned ugly baby you're driving everybody wild.

Well your eyes they shine like diamonds,
They're a perfect shade of blue,
But the thing that makes them different,
Is that everybody else has two.

Oh you're ugly,
Well you must have been a very very ugly child,
You're so damned ugly baby you're driving everybody wild.

Well your ma told you to clean your teeth,
So you went up to your room and you put your teeth upon the floor,
And you cleaned them with a broom

Oh you're ugly,
Well you must have been a very very ugly child,
You're so damned ugly baby you're driving everybody wild.

People say you're ugly but you ain't heard nothing yet,
They use the veins upon your legs as a road map for Tibet.

Because you're ugly,
Well you must have been a very very ugly child,
You're so damned ugly baby you're driving everybody wild.
People say you're ugly but I would not say that's true,
Just put that bag back on your head before you make me puke.

Oh you're ugly,
Well you must have been a very very ugly child,
You're so damned ugly baby you're driving everybody wild.

…Elvis Presley verse – lots of Elvis noises …

Oh you're ugly,
Well you must have been a very very ugly child,
You're so damned ugly baby you're driving everybody wild.

(Dylan verse – done al la Bob)
Every time I see you baby it always ends in tears,
You should have hazard warning lights dangling from your ears.

Oh you're ugly,
Well you must have been a very very ugly child,
You're so damned ugly baby you're driving everybody wild.

(ethnic verse – genuine blues verse)
Last night I woke up screaming, My thighs were black and blue,
I'd made to love to the mangle 'cos I thought that it was you.

Oh you're ugly,
Well you must have been a very very ugly child,
You're so damned ugly baby you're driving everybody wild.

Mark Watson

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Armstrong)
From: Gurney
Date: 04 Jun 14 - 12:07 AM

Thanks, Mark. Now everyone can see why I decided not to sing it!
Originally, I could just remember laughing myself sick at it, but I seem to have matured somewhat.

Although the wife says not.

Excellent CD/tape, though.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Rob Armstrong)
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 14 - 02:55 AM

C                  A7
You're so ugly , You're so ugly child
D7            G7   C
You're some ugly child
E7                                 G7   
Now the clothes that you wear are not in style
D7                      G      
You look like an ape every time you smile
C                   A7
How I hate you, you alligator bait you
D7
The homeliest thing I ever saw
             F
Oh, you're knock-kneed, pigeon-toed and box-ankled too
            C             E7            A7
There's a curse on your family and it fell on you
       C                A7
You're hair is nappy; Who's your pappy?
D7       G7    C
Your some ugly child

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Rob Armstrong)
From: Mo the caller
Date: 07 Jun 14 - 11:48 AM

That answer was a long time coming.
Reminds me of the tale my father used to tell about proposing to my mother. He'd planned his speech. " Darling when I look into your eyes time stands still. Your teeth are like the stars" What actually came out (so he claimed) was
"Your face is enough to stop a clock. Your teeth are like the stars - they come out at night"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Rob Armstrong)
From: Gurney
Date: 07 Jun 14 - 06:21 PM

Lots of 'lovely' one-liners around, Mo. One from Benny Hill:

My wife is one in a million, often have I heard that said,
But you are not one in a million, you look like you're won in a raffle instead!

Subject: Lyr Add: UGLY CHILD (YOU'RE SOME PRETTY DOLL)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Jun 14 - 02:17 AM

UGLY CHILD (YOU'RE SOME PRETTY DOLL)
Written by Clarence Williams & George Brunis
As recorded by Vic Lewis and Jack Parnell's Jazzmen, Parlophone R.2960, 1940.

Now you're so ugly; you're so ugly.
You're some ugly child.
Now the clothes that you wear are not in style.
You look like an ape ev'ry time you smile.
Oh, how I hate you, you alligator bait you,
The homeliest thing I ever saw.
You're knock-kneed, pigeon-toed, box-ankled too.
There's a curse on your fam'ly and it fell on you.
Your teeth are yellow; who's your fellow?
You're some ugly child.

[Instrumental break]

You're five-by-five and you're cross-eyed too.
There's a curse on your fam'ly and it fell on you.
Your hair is nappy; who's your pappy?
You're some ugly child.

Subject: Lyr Add: UGLY CHILD (from Lovin' Sam Theard)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 01:08 AM

UGLY CHILD
As sung by Lovin' Sam Theard (Lovin' Sam from Down in 'Bam) on "Lovin' Sam Theard (1929-1936) – Document Records DOCD-5479.

VERSE: I court a gal for quite a while.
I tried to dress up in the latest style.
I wore a diff'rent suit ev'ry time I call,
But she didn't like my looks so she wouldn't fall.
One day this lady spoke to me.
She said: "Now, boy, we can't agree."
She say: "You just too ugly and I just don't want you.
I just can't use you somehow."

CHORUS: She say: "You some ugly, aw, too ugly.
You's one ugly child."
She say: "The clothes you wear are in the latest style,
But you look like a mule¹ ev'ry time you smile."
She say: "How I hate you, you alligator bait you.
You the ugliest thing I ever saw."
She say: "You bowlegged, knock-kneed, and pigeon-toed² too.
Look like the curse o' your whole fam'ly must 'a' fell on you."
She said: "Your hair is nappy.
Who in the world is your pappy?"
She say: "You one ugly child,
I mean³, you one ugly child."

[INSTRUMENTAL BREAK]

[REPEAT CHORUS WITH VARIATIONS:]

1. baboon
2. cross-eyed
3. oh, boy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Rob Armstrong)
From: GUEST,Joyce
Date: 03 Sep 18 - 10:40 PM

Thank you Jim for your rendition of "Ugly Child"(16th. June 14) I am sure this is the version that I am need.
I have a Spanier, Bechet, Brunis CD with vocal by Brunis, but I cannot decipher all the words.
I doubt (with Bechet on sax) that this song is considered a racial slur, way back when I was young there were many funny/insulting songs
and we just laughed at them, even if they fitted us!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ugly Baby (Rob Armstrong)
From: The Doctor
Date: 04 Sep 18 - 09:44 AM

The title struck a chord(!) Many years ago, probably back in the 60s, I heard this song, and wrote the words as I heard them. Looking at them now I suspect the influence of floating verses.

I like your mother, baby, I like your father too.
I like your little brother but, baby, I hate you
Chorus
'Cos you're so ugly,
You must have been a very, very ugly child.
You're so damn ugly you're driving everybody wild.

For all you went to school, dear, you're really not so quick,
And every time I look at you it makes me feel quite sick.

You've only got one tooth, dear, and that one is quite black,
And when I look at you I can't tell the front side from the back.

Your tiny hand is frozen, just like the Sunday joint.
Your legs are like two matchsticks and your head comes to a point.

Your hair is thin and greasy and always out of place,
And what makes matters worse, dear, it's growing on your face.

It might possibly have been sung by Johnny Silvo. He sang songs of that type back then. But I really don't remember.