Lyr Add: Fishin' for Secrets (about Guantanamo)

Subject: Topical song - Fishin' for Secrets
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jun 04 - 03:22 PM

Here's a topical song I just wrote to the tune of Reuben James (Woody Guthrie's adaption of Wildwood Flower). It should be pretty self explanatory what it's about.

Oh the photograph shows such a sweet pretty face,
With the captives piled like fish in that terrible place.
Was it fishing for secrets? Or to pass the time away,
With those tricks that they teach in Guantanamo Bay.
Well there's some call it torture, some say it's abuse,
And there's some seem to think there's some kind of excuse.
But there's one thing for certain, as the old fellas said,
When a fish starts to stink then it starts at the head.

Oh you don't need no orders when you know what to do,
Just a nod and a wink, and it's all down to you.
From the hills of West Virginia to a cell in Iraq,
It's a long way to fall, and there's no climbing back.
Well there's some call it torture, some say it's abuse,
And there's some seem to think there's some kind of excuse.
But there's one thing for certain, as the old fellas said,
When a fish starts to stink then it starts at the head.

Now they cry stinking fish, and the reason is so clear,
You just need to sniff at the smell in the air –
But when they're looking for scapegoats, to shoulder the shame,
It's the man at the top is the man who's to blame.
Well there's some call it torture, some say it's abuse,
And there's some seem to think there's some kind of excuse.
But there's one thing for certain, as the old fellas said,
When a fish starts to stink then it starts at the head.

Subject: RE: Topical song - Fishin' for Secrets
From: Deckman
Date: 27 Jun 04 - 03:48 PM

MY GAWD!!! That's simply wonderful. Thanks, Bob(deckman)Nelson ( by the way, I'm in the yellow house, third from the corner. I figure I can save the FBI some gas when they come to question me)

Subject: RE: Topical song - Fishin' for Secrets
From: InOBU
Date: 27 Jun 04 - 10:31 PM

Ah BRILLIANT Kev, when NYU workers were on strike the posters were of Dean Bradimus' head on a fish with the same phrase... great song. Can't wait to hear it!
Cheers (hat off to you...)
Larry

Subject: RE: Topical song - Fishin' for Secrets
From: Bert
Date: 27 Jun 04 - 10:41 PM

When a fish starts to stink then it starts at the head. Great line and a great song. I love it.

Subject: RE: Topical song - Fishin' for Secrets
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 04:40 AM

Now this is interesting - I just checked on that phrase, via google, and, the very third entry, I found that it cropped up in this very context, dated just a few weeks back, "Fish Rot from the Head - Ex-Inmate Alleges U.S. Abuse at Guantanamo" - and yet I know I never saw that before. Synchronicity. Or maybe it's just that it's a piece of folk wisdom that leaps out at you when this kind of thing happens.

I wonder if anyone has ever checked if it's literally true. (If anyone feels like singing this song, go ahead and do so.)

Subject: RE: Topical song - Fishin' for Secrets
From: greg stephens
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 04:51 AM

McGrath: you have opened up a rich topic for speculation(and experiment) here. Do fish indeed rot from the head? Some fishing-experienced Mudcatter ought to know the answer to this.
And also, how long has this bit of folklore been knocking around? Nowadays it is always used as a means of delivering gratuitous insults to those in authority....but did the thought ever exist as a non-insulting observation?

Subject: RE: Topical song - Fishin' for Secrets
From: InOBU
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 12:04 PM

Well... in the interest of science and folk wisdom, I think we need a study here, to rule out climate and fish type, we need to settle of six or ten fish of varrious sizes, agree on the same, say a Mackrel of X lbs. (after deciding on metric or standard...) then set same fish out on roofs in England, the US, Iceland, Argentina, Germany... in short, where ever Mudcat has minions ... then we have to agree on a standard method of guaging rot... stink or discoloration... for stink, I think we need to separtate the two ends and the middle, so the designated smeller can sample each selection separately, after the agreed interval of rot... or, if by decomposition... well, that is another story... I think it seems easier to have another sing ... this grand song above, for example, then another pint or two or three, and well, what were we speaking about anyway????????
Cheers
Larry

Subject: RE: Topical song - Fishin' for Secrets
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 01:11 PM

This site gives 1674 as the first appearance in print of the saying, from a treatise called "An Account of the Voyage to New England." But I imagine it goes back well before that.

And the same site gives two different views about whether it's true or not. "I've been assured by my various biologist friends that the first thing that starts to disintegrate in a fish is the brain." " says one. But there's a quote from a "fish pathologist" who says "It's biologically incorrect. When a fish rots, the organs in the gut go first."

Anyway, if it's been round since 1674, that's good enough for me.

Subject: RE: Topical song - Fishin' for Secrets
From: greg stephens
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 01:16 PM

Unfortunqately, the link doesnt actually give much information on the 1674 use of the phrase.So we dont know if it was a simple biological observation, or a snidy swipe at Ye King or Ye Archbishop.

Subject: RE: Topical song - Fishin' for Secrets
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 05:18 PM

This was the picture I had in mind when I wrote the first line of this. It got wide press coverage in the UK.

I think it's maybe the most frightening picture I have ever seen.

Subject: RE: Topical song - Fishin' for Secrets
From: mack/misophist
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 08:33 PM

To quote Randolph Lee of Virginia "Like a mackerel; rotting and stinking and glowing in the moonlight."

Subject: RE: Topical song - Fishin' for Secrets
From: mack/misophist
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 11:52 PM

Sorry, that should have been John Randolph.

Subject: RE: Topical song - Fishin' for Secrets
From: semi-submersible
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 11:45 PM

Do fish indeed rot from the head? Some fishing-experienced Mudcatter ought to know the answer to this.

        As a third-generation commercial fisherman (of the female persuasion) I can report that the gills are the first part to get smelly. Dad told me, "Blood spoils, and the gills have a lot of blood in them." They also have plenty of surface area, and no tough skin or protective slime to delay infection.

        So before icing our catch, we cut out the gills, and after removing the guts, we cut and then scrape out the contents of the "blood line" - an organ which fills the top of the body cavity, against the spine. I believe it serves like our kidneys.
        For a large salmon, we may even take time to scrape out the blood from larger veins (squeezing it into the space where the bloodline was, gently, so as not to damage the skin of the belly walls). (If our catch is kept in chilled brine, it will bleed itself thoroughly without this step.)

        If the brain rots first, it doesn't matter to us, since bone isolates it from the muscle tissue which we plan to eat. Gut rotting speed depends largely on how the fish has been feeding.
        A coho salmon with a stomach full of krill or other small feed may secrete so much stomach acid that its belly wall starts to show signs of chemical burn (reddening and fragility) almost as soon as it arrives on deck. The only sure way to prevent "belly burn" is to clean the fish immediately (which may still be too late if you caught several at once). It happens even faster if the fish are warm (from sun-warmed deck, or relatively warm water). Your hands, if ungloved, may suffer the same fate ("coho burn") after cleaning a lot of actively feeding salmon (coho or spring/chinook especially).
        Yet a coho the same size, caught in the same waters at the same time, but with an empty stomach, will keep much longer round (i.e. uncleaned) before the warmth of decaying internal organs begins to damage the belly wall.

        Aren't you glad you asked?

        By the way, if you want to spot a fresh fish in the market, look at the eyes (both sides if possible). The eyes sink and grow dull as the fish warms or dehydrates. Storekeepers get mad when you poke your finger into the fish, to see if it springs back.