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Lyr Req: Griogal Cridhe / Beloved Gregor

Susan Tichy 08 Feb 97 - 12:40 PM
Alex 11 Feb 97 - 01:02 AM
Susan Tichy 12 Feb 97 - 10:49 PM
George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca 01 Jan 02 - 10:32 PM
GUEST,Philippa 10 Feb 03 - 02:11 PM
GUEST,Philippa 10 Feb 03 - 02:13 PM
Matt_R 10 Feb 03 - 03:50 PM
GUEST,Philippa 11 Feb 03 - 08:52 AM
GUEST,Philippa 11 Feb 03 - 09:00 AM
Felipa 11 Feb 03 - 07:35 PM
GUEST,Rosie jade 12 Feb 03 - 02:03 AM
Malcolm Douglas 12 Feb 03 - 02:52 AM
George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca 12 Feb 03 - 07:26 AM
Malcolm Douglas 12 Feb 03 - 08:03 AM
George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca 12 Feb 03 - 06:35 PM
Felipa 16 Feb 03 - 10:46 AM
GUEST,Kirsteen 21 May 03 - 04:18 AM
GUEST,Firith 24 May 03 - 06:16 PM
GUEST,lorna lloyd 21 Apr 10 - 07:51 AM
GUEST,DWR 21 Apr 10 - 08:46 AM
GUEST 03 Apr 12 - 03:32 AM
GUEST 24 May 13 - 11:40 PM
keberoxu 08 Jun 17 - 12:28 PM
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Subject: Griogal Cridhe/Grigor Crioghe/Beloved Gregor
From: Susan Tichy
Date: 08 Feb 97 - 12:40 PM

I am looking for any information on/version of Griogal Cridhe/Grigor Crioghe/Beloved Gregor. It's a Gaelic lament attributed to the wife of Gregor MacGregor of Stronmelochan in the mid 16th c. I have a couple of recent recordings of it, but I'm remembering one from my childhood, sung by, maybe, one of the Stewart family..? I'm also after the original words and any and all translations. My ultimate goal is a new, singable, translation, as the English versions I've heard do no justice to the power of the Gaelic. Thanks to anyone who can help.


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Subject: RE: Griogal Cridhe/Beloved Gregor
From: Alex
Date: 11 Feb 97 - 01:02 AM

Andy M. Stewart (ex Silly Wizard and related to the Stewarts of lairgowrie has a song "Gregollach" on his "Man In The Moon" CD about the outlawing of mentioning the name McGregor.


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Subject: RE: Griogal Cridhe/Beloved Gregor
From: Susan Tichy
Date: 12 Feb 97 - 10:49 PM

Thanks, Alex, but that's "MacGregor's Gathering", by Sir Walter Scott.

Anyone else have an idea?


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Subject: Lyr Add: GRIOGAL CRIDHE/BELOVED GREGOR
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: 01 Jan 02 - 10:32 PM

Here are some of the verses (there are LOTS more) for Griogal Cridhe

Griogal Cridhe
Part of the lament made by his widow for Gregor MacGregor Glenstrae, beheaded by the Campbells in 1570.

'S iomadh oidhche fhliuch is thioram,
Sìde nan seachd sìon,
Gheibheadh Griogal dhomhsa creagan
Ris an gabhainn dìon.
 
Séist
Obhan obhan obhan i ri i
Obhan i ri ri ó
Obhan obhan obhan i ri
'S mór mo mhulad 's mór.
 
B'annsa bhi le Griogal cridhe
Teàrnadh chruidh le gleann
Na le Baran mór na Dalach
Sìoda geal mu 'm cheann
 
Cha'n 'eil ùbhlan idir agam
'S ùbhlan uil' aig càch;
'S ann tha m' ubhal cùbhraidh grinn
'S cùl a chinn ri làr.
Many a night of wet or dry weather.
or all elemenets of storm,
Gregor would get me a corner
Where I could shelter safe
 
Chorus
Obhan obhan obhan i ri i
Obhan i ri ri o
Obhan obhan obhan i ri
Great is my sorrow, great
 
Better it were to be with Gregor
Driving the cows to the glenn
Than with the great Baron of Dull
 
I have no apples left now
While all the others have;
my apple, fragrant and shapely
lies low on the ground

Legend has it that the wife wrote the song while looking out the window at the gates of the city where the head of her husband was sitting on top of the pole.


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Subject: RE: Griogal Cridhe/Beloved Gregor
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 02:11 PM

This version of Griogal Cridhe has been recorded by Anne Martin (vocals) and Ingrid Henderson (clarsach) in "Nighean na Geug", Whitewave Music. Anne learned the song from Margaret Stewart. Rather gory for a lullaby!

seisd/refrain
O bà, bà mo leanabh, bà mo leanabh bà
'S chan eil daoin' a chi mo leanabh
Nach canadh bà bà

Chunnaic mise Griogal Cridhe
'S e na shuidh' air tom
Caol nam bean òg is gràdh nan nighean
'S currag beag ma cheann.

'S iomadh oidhche fhliuch is fhrasach
Oidhche nab seachd sian
A thug an Criogal dhomhsa leabaidh
Gus an gabhainn dion.

Ged tha mi gun ùbhlan agam
Tha ùbhlan aig càch
'S ann tha m'ubhal 's a cùbhraidh caineil
'S cùl a' chinn ri làr.

Bha mi 'n oidch' ud na mo sheasamh
'N dorus an Tuir Bhàin
Bha ' chlach a b'aird a bh'air a bhalla
'S i b'fhaisg air a bhlàr.

Dh'iarr iad mise chun a bainis
Bainis nach robh ann
Bha do cheann ac' air an dealag
Air a' phost ud thall.


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Subject: RE: Griogal Cridhe/Beloved Gregor
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 02:13 PM

see another version in this thread Bà mo leanabh


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Subject: RE: Griogal Cridhe/Beloved Gregor
From: Matt_R
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 03:50 PM

The Scottish group Mac-Talla did a beautiful version of the song.


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Subject: RE: Griogal Cridhe/Beloved Gregor
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 08:52 AM

re is a lot of information and transcriptions of the text on the web if you want to chase them.
Some say the lyrics date back to the 16th century. In correspondence at
http://www.pbm.com/pipermail/minstrel/1998/003126.html
Greg Lindahl wrote:"The evidence for Griogal Cridhe (Beloved Gregor) being actually written in 1570 is quite weak; there is apparently no evidence of it being written earlier than 1813 other than that it is about an event in 1570.

I looked in _The Companion to Gaelic Scotland_ under "folksong,
early", which lead me to a journal named Scottish Gaelic Studies, volume 8 (1955), p. 11-13, an article written by D. S. Thompson.
The earliest written version of this song is 1813. There was also a
folk version collected in the "late 19th century". The article
contains citations if anyone wants to chase it further. The notion
that the song wasn't necessarily written immediately after the event
has apparently been argued for more than 100 years.

Cumha Ghriogai Mhic Ghriogair Ghlinn Sreith - Gaelic-L messages from 1992. There are a few Gaelic song lyrics given, as well as lots of messages re computing (which I think has developed considerably in the past 11 years). Look for messages from Tom Thompson 7, 8 & 9 Feb. 1992 -background information, old (Cumha Ghriogair) & new (Griogar Cridhe) versions with translation, do-so-la notation)
It is worth plowing through if you are very interested in this song. Thomson says of 'Cumha Ghriogair' that:
"This song has already lasted more than for hundred years
       and it doesn't seem unlikely that it'll last as long
       again in the future. You can hear it often now at
       ceilidhs, or rather part of it as it's a long song,
       and several singers have recorded it. According to
       tradition it was written by Red Gregor's wife, but
       it's likely she didn't write it: McGregor was beheaded
       on 7 April, it's unlikely his wife didn't know that, and
       according to the song he was killed on 1 August.
       Probably it was written by the daughter of Duncan
       Campbell of GlenOrchy. "

T Thomson refers to "Turner's Collection of Gaelic Poetry" published in 1813 in Edinburgh, which may be the source of the date given by DS Thompson. Turner wrote that the song was "by the daughter of Duncan Campbell of GlenOrchy."
T Thomson doesn't give much evidence that the verses really do originate from the 16th century, but he does briefly discuss the metric scheme which is appropriate to the supposed date of authorship. Also, Gaelic poetry was much stronger in the 16th century than in the 19th!

Thomson's notes on background to the killing: " Gregor was executed, apparently as a result of machinations of his wife's family who wanted to marry her off to the Laird of Dall to cement a political alliance; but the Lady wouldn't play along with their schemes and thus started another of the Cambells' feuds."

The chorus of Cumha Griogair:
Ochain, ochain, ochain uiridh
Is goirt mo chridhe, laoigh,
Ochain, ochain, ochain uiridh
Cha cluinn t'athair ar caoidh.

(Ochone, My heart is sore, my child, Your father will not hear our weeping)

It ends with a verse which may further explain the song being a lullaby:
Ba hu, ba hu, àsrain bhig,
       Cha'n 'eil thu fhathast ach tlàth:
       Is eagal leam nach tig an latha
       gu'n dìol thu t'athair gu bràth.
(ba hu, forlorn little child, as yet you are only meek, I fear the day won't come when you will avenge your father)


Martyn Bennett (son of folklorist, singer and Gaelic speaker Margaret Bennett) recorded
"Glen Lyon's Lament"
This webpage gives a very different date!: " This powerful, passionate lament was composed by the sorrowing wife of Gregor MacGregor (a relative of Rob Roy) who was beheaded in 1757. 'Dearest beloved one, they spilled your blood yesterday. They put your head on an oak stob and left your body lying...' The violin weeps with the voice as she pours out her heart, beating her fists on his grave."

[of course, a song about a more recent event may borrow considerably from a song about a more ancient event, and there would have been more than one Gregor MacGregor]

interesting-looking Clan MacGregor site

The following offer lyrics similar to those posted by George Seto:
Lyrics & audial Alltan dubh
lyrics and translation, lots of other songs Donald MacDonald's pages http://www3.sympatico.ca/donaldmacdonald/songs.htm
lyrics and translationharp society page


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Subject: RE: Griogal Cridhe/Beloved Gregor
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 09:00 AM

Alltan dubh link above doesn't work now, try http://www.geocities.com/alltandubh/Clar.html and click on G for song titles beginning with that letter

I left out the URL for Martyn Bennett, Glen Lyon: http://www.footstompin.com/music/modern/glen_lyon/tracks/obj576


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Subject: RE: Griogal Cridhe/Beloved Gregor
From: Felipa
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 07:35 PM

the url given for Greg Lindahl is for a message that he replied to at http://www.pbm.com/pipermail/minstrel/1998/003230.html


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Subject: question?
From: GUEST,Rosie jade
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 02:03 AM

Since I was a baby I've been song a lulabie... I know it's irish celtic but I can't spell it even close to wright... I've been trying to teach my self gealic (doing horribley). Any way I was looking for info if any one could please.
This is the best I can remember to how it sounded:

Shew
shew
shew la rue
shew la rack shack to la baba coo
When I saw my bonnie Billy boy come bibaling along shy-lori
(the repeats)

info on what it's about or means, if there is any more to it, and how to spell it right would be nice. =)


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Subject: RE: Griogal Cridhe/Beloved Gregor
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 02:52 AM

Believe it or not, all you have to do is type rack shack into the "Lyrics and Knowledge" box on the main Forum page, and hit the "GO" button! That will put you on the trail, and before long, all will be revealed...


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Subject: RE: Griogal Cridhe/Beloved Gregor
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 07:26 AM

Rosie, It almost sounds like you're talking about Suil A Ruin, aka Shule a Roon, and many other variant spellings. It's in the DT, and countless threads in the forum.


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Subject: RE: Griogal Cridhe/Beloved Gregor
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 08:03 AM

Covered, George, if obliquely. You can guess what "rack shack" finds in a search, surely! "Bibbling" finds more references, but not "bibaling", of course.


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Subject: RE: Griogal Cridhe/Beloved Gregor
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 06:35 PM

Yes, I did understand the subtle hint. I figured that a specific title might give the asker, a firmer foundation.


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Subject: RE: Griogal Cridhe/Beloved Gregor
From: Felipa
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 10:46 AM

to get back to Griogal Cridhe, I had some personal correspondence with a very helpful Tom Thomson. He suspects that the article by Derek (DS) Thompson was misrepresented; that the controversy is not over whether Cumha Ghriogair was composed in the 16th or the 19th century, but how long after the initial event it was composed. Thomson suggests that the lyrics were originally composed 20 to 40 years after McGregor was executed in 1570.

at least that's my interpretation!


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Subject: RE: Griogal Cridhe/Beloved Gregor
From: GUEST,Kirsteen
Date: 21 May 03 - 04:18 AM

A superb version of ths track appears on the 1978 'Play Gaelic' Album by Runrig.

It is written on the sleeve that this was "written by the wife of the Chief of Clan McGregor in 1571 after her husband's death by execution. The song is wriiten as a lament but was also sung as a lullaby to her child"


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Subject: RE: Griogal Cridhe/Beloved Gregor
From: GUEST,Firith
Date: 24 May 03 - 06:16 PM

A beautiful version of the song also appears on Donnie Munro's album 'Gaelic Heart'


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Subject: RE: Griogal Cridhe/Beloved Gregor
From: GUEST,lorna lloyd
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 07:51 AM

for the best version i have heard to date, this is the best one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi9K8kTm1TA. this is hannah beaton, a friend of mine from achmore, kyle of lochalsh


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Subject: RE: Griogal Cridhe/Beloved Gregor
From: GUEST,DWR
Date: 21 Apr 10 - 08:46 AM

Another nice version, well, the only one I know really - is by Ishbel MacAskill on her Essentially Ishbel album. It's labeled as Griogal Cridhe (Darling Gregor).


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Griogal Cridhe / Beloved Gregor
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 12 - 03:32 AM

This song is about my 12th great grandfather


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Griogal Cridhe / Beloved Gregor
From: GUEST
Date: 24 May 13 - 11:40 PM

THIS IS THE BEST GRIOGAL CRIDHE I HAVE EVER HEARD!!! SIMPLY CHILLING & BREATHTAKINGLY BEAUTIFUL!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV7TPzNOuGk


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Subject: Lyr Add: Cumha Ghriogair Mhic Griogair
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Jun 17 - 12:28 PM

"Cumha Ghriogair Mhic Griogair" is the title of Malcolm MacFarlane's version of this lament, from his 1908 compilation Binneas nam Bàrd. A dedicated Scottish Gaelic scholar and musician, MacFarlane (also MacPharlain) printed the melody for each song in his anthology, along with the Gaelic verses. His book has no credits for words or music, no translations, and no annotations or commentaries. Elsewhere, MacFarlane submitted articles about the research and re-working he did on these songs, for journals like The Celtic Review in Edinburgh.

Lacking the knowledge or skills to pass on MacFarlane's chosen melody, I can only submit his chosen lyric, 15 verses in all. It will be seen that this lyric has much in common with the lyrics previously posted to this thread, if it is not entirely identical.

CUMHA GHRIOGAIR MHIC GRIOGAIR

Moch maduinn air La-Lùnasd
Bha mi sùgradh ri mo ghràdh:
Ach mu 'n d' thàinig meadhon latha,
Bha mo chridhe air a chràdh.

Mallachd aig maithibh is càirdibh
A chràidh mi air an dòigh,
Thàinig gun fhios air mo ghràdh-sa
'S a thug gu làr e le foill.

Na 'm biodh dà fhear dheug a chinnidh,
'S mo Ghriogair air an ceann,
Cha bhiodh mo shùil a' sìleadh dheur
No mo leanabh fèin gun daimh.

Chuir iad a cheann air ploc daraich,
'S dhòirt iad fhuil mu làr;
Na 'm biodh agams' an sin copan,
Ch' òlainn dith mo shàth.

'S truagh nach robh m' athair an galar,
'S Cailean ann am plàigh,
Ged bhiodh nighean an Ruthainich
A' suathadh bhas is làmh.

Chuirinn Cailean liath fo ghlasaibh
'S Donnachadh dubh an làimh,
'S gach Caimbeulach tha 'm Bealach
A bhiùlan na glais-làimh.

Ràinig mise rèidhlean Bhealaich
'S cha d' fhuair mi ann tàmh;
Cha d' fhàg mi roinn de m' fhalt gun tarruing
No craiceann air mo làimh.

'S truagh nach robh mi 'n riochd na h-uiseig;
Spionnadh Ghriogair ann mo làimh;
'S i chlach is àirde anns a' chaisteal
A' chlach a b' fhaisge do 'n bhlàr.

'S truagh nach robh Fionnlairig 'na lasair,
Is Bealach mòr 'na smà'l,
Is Griogair mòr nam basan geala
Bhi eadar mo dhà làimh.

'S ged tha mi gun ùbhlan agam,
'S ùbhlan uil' aig càch,
'S ann tha m' ubhal cùbhraidh, grinn,
Is cùl a chinn ri làr.

Ged tha mnathan chàich aig baile
'Nan laighe 'n cadal sèimh,
'S ann bhios mis' aig bruaich mo leapa
A' bualadh mo dhà làimh.   

'S mòr a b' annsa bhi aig Griogair
Cur a' chruidh do 'n ghleann
Na bhi aig Baron beag na Dalach
'G òl air fìon is leann.

'S mòr a b' annsa bhi aig Griogair
Fo bhrat ribeach ròin
Na bhi aig Baron beag na Dalach
Giùlan sìoda 's sròil.

Ged bhiodh cur is cathadh ann
Is latha nan seachd sìon,
Gheibheadh Griogair dhòmhsa cnagan
'San caidleamaid fo dhìon.

Ba hù, ba hù, asrainn bhig,
Cha 'n 'eil thu fathast ach tlàth;
'S eagal leam nach tig an latha
Gu 'n dìol thu t' athair gu br`th.

edited by Malcolm MacFarlane, pages 48 - 50,
Binneas nam Bàrd / Bardic Melody, a Book in which the Poems, Songs, and Ditties of the Scottish Gaels are exhibited along with their Airs. Stirling: Eneas Mackay, 1908.


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