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Singaround etiquette ?

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Carol 04 Jul 04 - 07:14 AM
Zany Mouse 04 Jul 04 - 07:23 AM
Liz the Squeak 04 Jul 04 - 07:28 AM
Carol 04 Jul 04 - 07:50 AM
Sooz 04 Jul 04 - 07:52 AM
GUEST,TED IN HIS SHREDDIES 04 Jul 04 - 08:24 AM
Mark Dowding 04 Jul 04 - 08:40 AM
Leadfingers 04 Jul 04 - 08:50 AM
Carol 04 Jul 04 - 08:51 AM
Carol 04 Jul 04 - 08:57 AM
Sooz 04 Jul 04 - 10:00 AM
George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca 04 Jul 04 - 05:57 PM
early 04 Jul 04 - 07:29 PM
brid widder 04 Jul 04 - 08:15 PM
GUEST,Nutty 05 Jul 04 - 06:05 AM
Tyke 05 Jul 04 - 07:39 PM
Bert 05 Jul 04 - 08:22 PM
The Fooles Troupe 05 Jul 04 - 08:32 PM
PennyBlack 05 Jul 04 - 09:11 PM
Ebbie 05 Jul 04 - 09:34 PM
Bert 05 Jul 04 - 09:52 PM
Ebbie 05 Jul 04 - 11:09 PM
mg 05 Jul 04 - 11:22 PM
Ebbie 05 Jul 04 - 11:44 PM
The Fooles Troupe 06 Jul 04 - 01:41 AM
GUEST,padgett 06 Jul 04 - 04:27 AM
Mr Happy 06 Jul 04 - 04:50 AM
The Fooles Troupe 06 Jul 04 - 04:59 AM
GUEST,padgett 06 Jul 04 - 05:31 AM
GUEST,MC Fat 06 Jul 04 - 05:44 AM
Pied Piper 06 Jul 04 - 06:21 AM
Snuffy 06 Jul 04 - 08:53 AM
The Fooles Troupe 06 Jul 04 - 08:59 AM
Bert 06 Jul 04 - 09:12 AM
GUEST,MC Fat 06 Jul 04 - 09:54 AM
HuwG 06 Jul 04 - 10:27 AM
GUEST,Hugh Jampton 06 Jul 04 - 10:45 AM
HuwG 06 Jul 04 - 10:52 AM
Carol 06 Jul 04 - 11:17 AM
Dave Bryant 06 Jul 04 - 11:58 AM
Cats 06 Jul 04 - 11:59 AM
LesB 06 Jul 04 - 01:52 PM
Sooz 06 Jul 04 - 02:18 PM
GUEST,Betsy 06 Jul 04 - 02:43 PM
Herga Kitty 06 Jul 04 - 03:44 PM
GUEST,Anne Croucher 06 Jul 04 - 06:08 PM
alanww 06 Jul 04 - 06:52 PM
Leadfingers 06 Jul 04 - 07:32 PM
Herga Kitty 06 Jul 04 - 07:45 PM
GUEST,Richard 06 Jul 04 - 07:46 PM
GUEST,Anne Croucher 06 Jul 04 - 08:33 PM
Herga Kitty 07 Jul 04 - 02:34 AM
Red and White Rabbit 07 Jul 04 - 02:36 AM
Rasener 07 Jul 04 - 03:28 AM
GUEST,MC Fat 07 Jul 04 - 05:56 AM
Dave Bryant 07 Jul 04 - 06:24 AM
GUEST,MC Fat 07 Jul 04 - 06:58 AM
VIN 07 Jul 04 - 08:48 AM
The Beast of Farlington 07 Jul 04 - 08:57 AM
GUEST,MC Fat 07 Jul 04 - 09:24 AM
GUEST,Hugh Jampton 07 Jul 04 - 11:20 AM
GUEST,MC Fat 07 Jul 04 - 11:23 AM
MoorleyMan 07 Jul 04 - 01:15 PM
Keith A of Hertford 07 Jul 04 - 02:23 PM
GUEST,Guest Phil 07 Jul 04 - 04:38 PM
GUEST,Steve 08 Jul 04 - 05:15 PM
Rasener 08 Jul 04 - 05:31 PM
PennyBlack 08 Jul 04 - 09:52 PM
VIN 09 Jul 04 - 04:04 AM
JonnyDyer 19 Jul 04 - 11:01 PM
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Subject: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Carol
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 07:14 AM

I know life is very short but some things happen in singarounds that really bug me, am I the only one? My main beef is that when artists come into singarounds, no matter how great they are I think they should be treated exactly the same as any other participant in the SAR. And this idea that festival organisers have of programming guest spots in singarounds is just another bad habit!! if the guests want to come into a SAR they would be welcome, the same as anyone else - I think the only exception i would make is if a Choir wanted to participate as a group which doesn't happen very often.

Just got back from Cleckheaton for the first time, enjoyed the SAR on Friday evening but on Saturday it was awful room as a venue - too small,with crying babies,shouting chefs, drumming Morris Men, noisy group next door and the room was part of a passagway through the pub. Then in the evening couldn't get a seat and being disabled can't stand for very long so went back to the hotel with 'my tail between my legs'.
Can't the organisers find a venue with a large room that is not a public thoroughfare - I was told that the Commercial has such a room but it's not used for some reason.

I think that good singarounds don't reeally need an organiser but they definately need a decent room. Sorry for alll the beef but we've come home early as I was so fed up so I'm having a moan!!


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 07:23 AM

I can understand your moans, Carol. Sadly, venues are always a problem, and getting a folk-friendly landlord can be a difficult task.

I think my major moan about singarounds is that so many people come in, get their song and then wait for another 2 songs (trying to make it less obvious?) and then bugger off to another event. It happens so often it must be obvious to all that they only want their Moment of Glory and are not interestred in listending to other performers and songs. Does this bug anyone else?

Rhiannon


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 07:28 AM

You are not alone!!

There are quite a few threads here on etiquette for sessions, singarounds and clubs - I'm sure the Joe Clones can find some and link them!

I know what you mean about the 'turn' coming in, blagging a spot and demanding attention as if they were in a concert. As far as I'm concerned, if they come to a singaround, they are treated as any other singer.... Ian Bruce springs to mind as one of those who just sit in the audience and wait to be invited, and - most importantly - DON'T BUGGER OFF AS SOON AS THEY HAVE DONE THEIR SPOT!! I know one person (not mainstream, but a professional all the same) who does just that - comes in, makes a fuss, gets a spot and then is out the door almost before the applause has died down. It drives me and a lot of other people absolutely barmy!

And don't get me started on inappropriate venues and lack of seating ... although I think it particuarly appalling that no-one got up to offer you a seat. I'm not one of these people that think 'I'm performing here so I must have a seat', but there are people out there who assume that the right of seating is theirs alone just becasue they have sung a song. Neither am I a female (well, I AM female, but....) that who demands a seat as my right as a female. Having said that, I will take one if offered, but give it up if someone obviously needs it more than I do. It seems that politeness and courtesy are no longer considered necessary.

Having said that, I hope it hasn't put you off festivals altogether. Try and get to Towersey, in Oxfordshire, August Bank Holiday - it's one of the best singarounds on the circuit and we'll make sure you get a seat!

LTS


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Carol
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 07:50 AM

Yes, I have been to Towersey, many years ago - singing in the 'barn' next to the pub and with Tony leading the session. Unfortunately Towersey is one of the festivals that won't allow you to buy camping only tickets and not many 5 van sites around.


Also after having moved up to Yorkshire after 15 years 'down south' Towersey is a bit far! Saltburn is usually very good and I'm hoping Filey will be as well - plus we're trying out Saddleworth - I don't think I can drag him to anymore this year!!


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Sooz
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 07:52 AM

Yes, yes and yes. I agree with you all!
We run our Folk Club here in Gainsborough as a singaround almost every meeting. We have a great room and enough seeting for 50 (comfortably) click here
Our main problem is fitting people in as we usually only manage twice round the room. The thing that really bugs me is the people who faff about wondering what to do or going to fetch their guitar or whatever. THEY KNOW WHEN THEIR TURN IS COMING SO WHY AREN'T THEY READY? (Sorry, needed to shout that one)


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: GUEST,TED IN HIS SHREDDIES
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 08:24 AM

come to the blacksmiths arms at Farlington on the 16th, I will show you how a singaround should go -
1) no uglies
2) no people who live above pie shops
3) smokers get precedence
4) no sea shanties unless you have actually served on a trawler


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 08:40 AM

I've run a couple of singarounds at Four Fools festival in the past and I get the people who come in when the thing is in full swing - they don't come in at the start when it's empty and no-one can hear their song - see who's singing and make a bee line for the seat nearest to them so they can have a go next and go away (I'd have said "bugger off" but I'm too polite for that). What I tend to do is tell them that I'm going to come back to them after I've been round the people who have been there waiting patiently for half an hour or so for their turn so they at least have the enforced decency to listen to other songs. If they don't want to wait and just get up and go then that's fine by me.

I've also been in the situation where I've arrived at a room with a singaround a few minutes before the advertised start with maybe half a dozen other people, had to wait half an hour before the organiser thought that the room had to be half full before he/she would start, been sat in the wrong place in the room because said organiser decided to start on the left and go round by which time more people have come in and filled the room up and by the time it's got round to my turn I've had to go because I was due on elsewhere.

I can't say I've had "guests" come in demanding spots but I have had "guests" sit there listening for quite a while and stay there well after they've had a go themselves and commented on how much they enjoyed listening to other people.

Cheers
Mark


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 08:50 AM

Carol- A lot of Festivals 'book' their guests into singarounds as well , dont forget , which means the S/around organiser HAS to fit then in , and often their schedule means they CANT stay and listen to every one else . I think this happens at Cleck , and I KNOW that Cleck has a major problem with venues , as most of the places with a room are Managed houses , and the managers are very rarely there for two festivals . I will agree about Ian Bruce - First time I met him was at a singaround and he hadnt even brought a guitar , so had to borrow mine .


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Carol
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 08:51 AM

Just to stress with the artist coming into a singaround, this weekend it wasn't the artist (whoI think has a great voice) but the person who was running the session who insisted they sing more - needless to say I doubt that I will be going back to the club that he runs.

Sooz how about starting at 8 and everyone/anyone who's in the room then gets a first 'round' - could this be you and me!! I would make the effort to get there early as would be coming form quite a distance. Perhaps people would appreciate the chance to sing an extra song??


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Carol
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 08:57 AM

Sorry but if festival organisers book guests into singarounds, which wasn't the case at Cleckheaton, then why do they do this -presumably they think the ordinary singer in a singaround enjoys artists taking up precious SAR time - humph!! I really don't think many 'floor singers' would agree with that, surely most people go into a SAR to sing or to listen to the people in the room, not artists.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Sooz
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 10:00 AM

Carol -We've already decided that we will have to start earlier. However, an important part of the club atmosphere is the craic and conversation that goes on as people arrive. I'm assured that the warm and personal welcome is part of our appeal!
Like you, we've travelled long distances to festival singarounds in the most awful environments and had to give up on the idea of ever getting in. Robin Hood's Bay last June was very disappointing so we didn't go this year. Perhaps we should draw up a list with star ratings!
I could recommend the all day singaround at Wickersley Festival (near Rotherham) in March - although you might not like the fact that they have a named artist on in each hour to do 15 minutes.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 05:57 PM

Old Time & Bluegrass
Are Sessions Elitist?
Etiquette Thought for the Day
Other Threads on Etiquette in Jams


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: early
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 07:29 PM

millfolk ran the singaround in the wickham from 8 till 10 on saturday night going around the room with everyone who wanted to sing getting a go - when our spot finished at ten the next official organiser chose to set up in the dining room so we carried on till at least 11 30 and as we left it was still going strong - a great night was had by all - and there was space available although it was busy all present singers and audience stayed so i am assuming they felt it went pretty well - also there was no grandstanding as everyone regardless of fame or lack of it participated equally - all in all a very nice night


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: brid widder
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 08:15 PM

We're just back from Cleckheaton too... I love the Wickham... and it's one of the reasons I go to Clecky... there are usually at least three separate singarounds in there... maybe more... if one room is full... or miserable... or too noisy...or full of drunken morrismen...or not your style of music... well you just move on through til you find one that suits. Also there are other places for a singaround ..on Saturday evening we went along to The Marsh, two minutes down the road from the Wickham... a belting singaround, unofficial, ably led by McFat and I think discussed on the Cleckheaton thread last week.

The Commercial in usually used for musicians session... but we did pop in there for a short while on saturday afternoon and found a few musicians taking turns... with two guitarists singing when it was their turn... the instrumentalists left... leaving just the two guitarists... who carried on regardless of anyone else in the room, taking turns to sing. One of them said to the other 'it's just you & me then'.... we went back to the Wickham!!

All in all it was a brilliant festival... apart from the rain!!!


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: GUEST,Nutty
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 06:05 AM

I am very sad to hear such a great little festival being described in such negative terms.

Cleckheaton represents great value for money .... at £25 for a weekend festival ticket and £2 per person per night for camping it would be hard to find another festival that offers so much for £30 or less.

However, if what is wanted is a FREE weekend with great singarounds and lots of FREE entertainment, then perhaps it might be better to look elsewhere.

Festivals, in order to survive, depend on people buying tickets and/or giving freely of their time.

Year after year, Cleckheaton has consistently given value for money and I'm sure it will do so for many years to come.

As for artists being booked into singarounds .... thats is (generously) arranged to allow everyone (paying and non-paying)an opportunity to see them, they rarely perform for more that 15 mins anyway.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Tyke
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 07:39 PM

Sorry! Sorry! I was unable to get to Cleckheaton this year as Coblers Monday had prior commitments. The Cleckheaton F. F. organisers I know had worked hard all year, as they have done every year, to bring to Cleckheaton some top class artists.
So to all you Singer Round fan's I would just ask you to remember that to keep any festival a float !

There is a need: -

To put bums on seats for the concerts! (Translation for the USA fill the concert halls with paying customers)
To keep the licences happy by having Booked Guests appear at Singer Rounds. (Preferably when they are not going to provide a distraction to putting Bums on seats)

So I would suggest to all singer round fan's that a little understanding of the problems of the Organiser is not a bad idea. An appreciation of the artist who as part of his contract has been sent along to a Singer Round is etiquette.

Yes I do understand the disappointment that is felt when said Artist comes along and sings the song that you were about to sing. What a nerve! And just because he or she wrote it! Flipping Cheek!

As for the Organisers I hope you realize that if it weren't for them you would have no one to mone about no one getting things right or wrong and no Festival. So the next time you meet one or pick up the things you liked or disliked information feed back leaflet, tell them it might help them to, if they can, put things right and keep the things you did like! In short tell them what went wrong and tell them everyone else what went right.

Me I just sorry I missed yet another great value for money Cleckheaton Festival.
Don't get me wrong we had a great time including singing in the Plough Captain Kipper and eight Pirates from Bridlington, Miss Rosy Buttocks from Whitby, Eldoon the Russian Tall Ship, with the unpronocable name, Third Mate and Jim Eldon. But that was just an unplanned happening a spontaneous event for which Whitby is as you know famous.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Bert
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 08:22 PM

And there should be a time limit for each person. You get some people who sing a three minute song and others regularly go on for fifteen minutes or more.

If fifteen minutes is OK for one performer then it should be the same for everyone.

If the set time is a more reasonable five minutes then people should be held to it. And the person who takes that long chatting to his neighbor, borrowing a tuner and tuning his guitar should be given hearty applause at the end of the five minutes and be informed that his turn is over.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 08:32 PM

"If the set time is ..... then people should be held to it. And the person who takes that long chatting to his neighbour, borrowing a tuner and tuning his guitar should be given hearty applause at the end of the five minutes and be informed that his turn is over."

Actually, Bert, I couldn't agree more.

He should be told he is being applauded for his 'performance', which was very funny, but next time, could he please actually play some music!

The amount of time wasted at some singarounds/sessions is such that several more artists could have a slot, or each artist who sticks to the 'X items' rule (those doing more items than the 'limit' annoys me!) could each have an extra item.

A little discipline in having each artist ready to go on when announced is appreciated by many in the audience. Of course, this 'mucking about' is also appreciated by some - it gives them a chance to duck out for a smoke/coffee.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: PennyBlack
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 09:11 PM

We run one or two sing arounds at Fylde and yes you do get the floorsingers that bob in and out, (especially at the mount session where two sessions are run at the same time) this tends not to be a problem as a "running order" is kept to so everyone gets a fair crack of the whip.

Although we usually start off the session we'll drop out of the circle if their are plenty of people wanting to sing (we're happy of the rest and time to enjoy others making music).

It's easy if someone comes in mid session (NOT mid song) to get their name invite them into the circle and add their name to the list so you can get back to them "in turn".

Never had a problem with Artists wanting to "queue jump" in fact they will often "Pass" if asked to do something and have never asked or would ask them to do more songs than anyone else.

One thing that's nice at Fylde is that most years you have a regular band of singers who come year after year so it's just like a gathering of old friends suplimented by some new friends who will hopefully come back in following years.

I hope we never get too picky though at sing arounds and have to limit everyone to a set time so some performers don't sing longer songs and grab more floor time it is after all supose to be a fun thing to do and we should all enjoy making music together whether singing, playing or listening.

P.S if anyone who enjoys sessions is across in Blackpool, there's a new regular session at The Princess a great venue and the Landlord enjoys the music as well.

and (plug plug) we're at The Steamer in Fleetwood every Tuesday lunch 11.30am to 2.30pm an would love Artists to come along and do the odd set and help raise some cash for ARC. you'll have an audience of 150-300.

PB


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 09:34 PM

I try to hold our song circle to not more than 15 or so people. On the other hand, if someone on tour is in town and someone brings her or him up the hill we each grab our own chair and move out of the parlor with the great acoustics and into the two open rooms adjoining where we can accomodate up to 30 people. In a case like that, we have different rules from usual, deferring to the guest artist and those of us who are of that same level. It works out well, and we all get to hear some very good stuff. There's always next week.

On occasion, when we have 5 or 6 regulars here that we all want to hear, some of us will use our turns to request one of them to perform an extra song or tune. People here are pretty mellow.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Bert
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 09:52 PM

You're right PennyBlack about not wanting to be too picky. But when you get the SAME PEOPLE who EVERY TIME hog the spotlight for three times longer than anyone else then that's just arrogant rudeness.

Oh Ebbie! ...those of us who are of that same level... How nice it must be to be so good. I envy your skill but not your manners.

The whole point of a singaround is that you get to hear everyone; and there's nothing more wonderful than hearing a hesitant beginner improve into a competent performer.

If the guest singer is that important then organize a concert for them alone.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 11:09 PM

Well, Bert, I'm not one of those 'on that same level'. If you were here, you'd understand how it works. Not a one of us tells anyone NOT to play- we know who we are.

A 'guest' artist comes here perhaps twice a year- we all learn a lot from the person and for months afterward someone is demonstrating to us what she or he has learned, just from that one evening. You're not to going to find a more supportive, enthusiastic group than ours.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: mg
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 11:22 PM

I can think of three rules for song circles that work.

One is the Jon Bartlett rule (I think)..he said have it every week. People get these every other week/ third weekend of the month mixed up. They will find their own schedule.

One is the Rob Folsom rule. Don't let them sing a parody of a song that has just been sung, or sung earlier. It is yucky.

One is a generic rule...sooner or later you will probably want to ban all instruments other than guitars, and wish you could make exceptions now and then (maybe you can for new people, strangers etc.)...but (a) sometimes they are particularly tedious, especially, no offense the flute players, and (b) they start wanting to jam, which wrecks the singing. They really need a separate circle. (c) I could be persuaded that accordians are the exception here.

mg


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 11:44 PM

Our group is eclectic- we have an upright bass, one fiddle, a couple or three mandolins, a banjo, an autoharp and numbteen (one of them is me) guitars. The mix of songs and tunes is just as diverse. Everything from Indigo Girls to Shel Silverstein, Townes Van Zandt and Bob Dylan to southern gospel to original songs and rip-roaring fiddle and mando tunes that everyone gets into. We've been going strong just about every Friday night for 6 or 7 years.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 01:41 AM

"I could be persuaded that accordians are the exception here."

I would certainly hope so! :-)

but then, as a keyboard/multi-instrumentalist/Low-whistle(related to a flute!)/piano accordion player, some guitarists are worth excluding... ;-)

Any instrument can be used as accompaniment - if not to their own singing, then to someone else's. If someone is new to taking up their curent instrument, then excluding them will only delay their development. Bert said "there's nothing more wonderful than hearing a hesitant beginner improve into a competent performer." By excluding some people who you think are currently hopeless, you may only be cutting off your nose to spite your face in the long run. The flute can be an amazing sensitive accompaniment to the human voice.

Robin


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 04:27 AM

I am a long time singaround leader and have experience of the Cleckheaton/Whickham and many other Yorkshire festivals (Barnsley Easter sing in particular) and Whitby Tap and Spile
Running a singarounds isn't as easy as it looks, to keep and maintain equity
One song each, no matter who they are, unless a booked artist has been programmed in there, is the usual course
I had my own programme at Cleckheaton, but big Dave and his mate Brian said they were going to write a song about the problems encountered in the small front room ~ it is a bit close to the dance area,etc.
Better craic in the other room, that's as far as I got
I'd like to see better use of the upstairs Commercial for singarounds
St John's Hall was better laid out on the Sat evening for Deanna's session and very well received ~ pity about the post in the Aakash


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 04:50 AM

We were in some sars/seshes at Glasson last w/end- just ordinary spontaneous unled ones.

Part way through the evening one, some people came in saying they'd come to run the session & went on to do 2 songs themselves then indicated who'd follow in succession doing 2 songs each.

We were a little put out by this & it was pointed out that the event had been running satisfactorily unled all afternoon & evening.


Explanation given was they were paid to 'lead' the session?

As mentioned above, sars/sesshes don't need to be led other than perhaps to ensure anyone a bit shy gets a go & this is what was already happening & does in most events anyway.

And that's my tuppence worth!


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 04:59 AM

Looks as though there were 2 sessions there at once ... one lot should have found another place... :-)


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 05:31 AM

better singarounds usually have someone respected for equity to run them! Often I have run singarounds and given up my turn to others; the leader should have no 'ulterior motive' nor necessarily use it as a platform for their own ends
Ray Padgett


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 05:44 AM

Cleackheaton is a nice but strange festival. The Wickham has a folk friendly landlord (in fact he's a very good singer) but awfull rooms. The room with the wicker chairs and settees is basically crap for an SAR. Last year when the pub was invaded by drunken once a year performers who were 10 pints ahead of us at 7pm we encamped at the Marsh on't way to campsite last year's was a good impromtue SAR but this year's was better and the landlord was really pleased to see us again as were the punters. I concur with Padge too many festivals don't think about getting a singaround organiser or MC who's 'respected' and I can say for my part that if you book people from the following e.g. Ken Johnson, Ray Padgett, John Booker, Judy Knight, Moi, Kitty Vernon and others who there are others you'll get experienced and quality work. Too many festivals think of the singaround and shove someone in who either blags it for a ticket or someone from the committee who they can't find a job for. I've been to singarounds where you wouldn't let the person run a raffle let alone loose on an SAR or Folk Club. The question of paid performers is tricky we've had some smart impromtue performance at Whity in Tap from people like the Witches, Pegleg Ferrett and Pete Morton but I think the key to the quality is that word 'impromptue'. Yes put a key singer in but don't overload at the expense of the assembled unwashed.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Pied Piper
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 06:21 AM

From now on I will be referring to sing-arounds as SARS. which are only marginally less damaging to trad music than the Virus.
PP


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Snuffy
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 08:53 AM

Running a Singaround can be very difficult, and is not the same as running a folk club session.

As Ray Padgett says one song each is the rule, nobody should get to do a "spot".

If it's a time-limited SAR, then equity demands that you call the people who've been waiting longest. Go round everyone there at the start before calling new arrivals. And on a 2-5pm SAR at 4.45 I would call someone who sang at 2.15 and has remained there listening to everyone else before someone who arrives at 4.15 and hasn't sung yet. The next person to sing is the one who's been waiting longest.

Open-ended SARs or ones where you'll be handing over to another host it's more acceptable to give everyone a go before going back to starters.

But how about festival organisers who schedule a two-hour SAR, run by 4 booked turns (totalling 9 singers). By the time they've all had a starting and finishing song there's not many of your punters get a go.

My two-penn'orth anyway


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 08:59 AM

"a two-hour SAR, run by 4 booked turns (totalling 9 singers)"

... sounds a bit like a concert to me mate ... :-)


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Bert
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 09:12 AM

Sorry Ebbie I shouldn't have picked on you like that. But I'm a bit sore about this issue. I stopped going to the Philadelphia Folk song Society because half a dozen Members thought they were better than everyone else and would form their own inner circle and let no one else in.

Oh and then there are those who sing the same old songs every time.
Songwriters with only three songs of their own are bad about this.

Now I'm not suggesting that these folks be ruled out, but if the circle is small enough then one round could consist of songs that you haven't sung there before. You wouldn't need to let anyone miss a turn if they couldn't think of a new song but it would encourage folks to learn new stuff.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 09:54 AM

We've had some fun at singarounds by having stupid themes like the 'Eric' hour where you had to put the name 'Eric' in the song you sang, this was substituted by a 'Rhodedenurum' hour. There is of course the famous 'kill around' where you count up the number of people who have died in your songs and 'tenuous links' is good fun.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: HuwG
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 10:27 AM

Purely as an observation on Carol's original complaint about inappropriate rooms within a venue for singarounds etc.

(Please bear in mind that I have not yet attended Cleckheaton, but have experience of other festivals).

One factor which may result in sessions or parts of festivals finding themselves in less-than-desirable settings, is architecture. Many public houses in Britain were built in the Victorian or Edwardian eras, and are full of odd passages, funny-shaped rooms and awkward bar arrangements. Unfortunately, not much can be done about this.

<OT?>What may affect several public houses and other venues in Britain in coming months are regulations on access for the disabled. This ought perhaps to have a separate thread to itself, but I will observe that, regrettably, some older venues may simply be forced to close rather than spend many hundreds of thousands of pounds on ramps or lifts for those confined to wheelchairs. Nobody could disagree with the sentiment that anyone whose mobility is restricted should not be able to use any venue, but the expense of providing this is being thrown entirely on the owners of the property.

(To take an example, Glossop, where I live, has three venues which are publicly owned: the Town Hall, Victoria Hall above the public library, and a similar venue above nearby Hadfield Library. All three will require extensive modernisation to comply with the disabled access requirements. The local Council can stump up the cash to modernise only *one* of these three.)</OT?>

More relevantly, another factor which organisers can perhaps affect to some degree, is the provision of bar stewards, and other staff. Most public houses hire bar staff on a temporary, part-time basis. The arrangements are often casual, in all senses of the word. Where such arrangements break down, function rooms which have their own bar and which are some distance from the main bar(s) cannot be used.

It is also regrettably the case that some landlords changed their name by Deed Poll at some point, from "Ebenezer Scrooge". They are unwilling to pay extra staff for an event, or put themselves to the effort of trying to contact, or make proper arrangments with, a shifting, irregular pool of potential bar workers (many of whom will be students or people on benefit).

It should also be noted that some public houses are "tied" i.e. owned or controlled by a brewery, and the publican is merely a tenant. The landlords of tied houses do tend to change every two or three years, and a landlord who was so accomodating and helpful to a festival last year, may be replaced by an irascible curmudgeon next year.

Other public houses are "freehold" i.e. the licensee is the owner. Where such a freehold licensee is a supporter of the event things are obviously much easier. Not much can be done about a hostile freehold publican, except wait for him or her to die or retire.


So far as the organisers of a festival are concerned, there are a few steps which they can take with regard to the owners or licensees of a pub, to ensure that arrangements proceed smoothly. It helps if they give lots of notice, and can forecast the numbers which will attend. Obviously a festival which has been running for years will have an advantage over one being run for the first time in this respect. Plenty of publicity (flyposters, websites etc) helps.

It is also useful if the licensee has a fixed contact with the organisers. It is no good if the only contact details are a few mobile telephone numbers, some of which are unobtainable and others which belong to people only tangentially connected with the event.

In the case of a tied house, it is sometimes a good idea to involve the controlling brewery. They can support willing landlords, and often contribute with extra grants and publicity. On the other hand, many festivals won't be happy with big-name breweries muscling in on the event; and some commercially-minded big breweries are only too happy to see their name in bold type on the publicity but then contribute little to the event.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: GUEST,Hugh Jampton
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 10:45 AM

Hugh G,
       Regarding the Council that only allotted funds for up-grading one building, I was under the impression that, sooner or later, all buildings considered to be "public" shall provide facilities for dis-abled access.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: HuwG
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 10:52 AM

Yes. In the case I mentioned, where all three venues are on upper floors of buildings where ramps etc can easily be installed for access to the ground floors, it appears that two of the venues will simply cease to be used for performances or public events.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Carol
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 11:17 AM

Just to say that personally I won't buy season tickets for festivals as I don't attend concerts etc. but would always be quite happy to pay for a camping and singaround ticket/a more expensive camping charge than season tickets holders - I do appreciate that things have to be paid for. As to the Sat evening in the Wickham I stood in the doorway at aboout 8.30,(leaning on my walking stick) for 3/4 songs and saw no chance of a chair so I left.
As to who runs a singaround and whether it 'works' - I really think it depends much more on the singers who turn up, or not, as the case may be. this is obviously harder to plan in advance at a festival than at a club.
I have nothing 'against' the names that Ray has mentioned but other people could/would make just a good a job. After living 'down south' for about 15 years it's funny how a different 'set' of singaround leaders flourish down there and again I don't think newcomers/strangers are encouraged to have a go.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 11:58 AM

Just one comment about singers who leave a SAR after their spot. If the SAR is a very big one, it might several hours before your turn comes round. If you're at a festival, there may be other events which you want to get to, or even the fact that you need to eat sometime ! There have been many occasions when I've stayed much longer at a SAR than I'd planned, but when you know that it's your turn in the next 15mins or so, you do tend to stay for it. After you've sung, however, you then feel free to carry on with what ever else is on the agenda. Would it be better to leave without singing then ?

On the other hand at Tenterden Folk Festival last year, Linda and I were at John Barden's SAR from about 11.45am to 12.30am the next morning - minus a couple of hours in the early evening when we had a meal break. As various festival guests were performing upstairs in the pub, we were prevailing upon people like Dave Webber & Annie Fentiman to sing us a couple of songs as they passed through, I didn't hear anyone complaining about this - especially as most of the guest performers tended to sing songs with great choruses for us to join in with.

One of the gripes that Linda and I have about some festival SARs is that they are scheduled to finish at a fixed time (lunchtime ones always seem to end at 3pm) when there are often many people who still haven't managed to sing and plenty more who are looking to sing another time. Unless the premises are needed for another event or the landlord wants the session to end - why not carry on - as we did at the Tenterden session which I've already mentioned.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Cats
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 11:59 AM

Nowhere to sing...inappropriate rooms.. it all sounds such a common complaint which is why we run the Fox and Hounds weekend on Dartmoor. We have no guests and if someone 'famous' turns up, well, they will get a sing when it comes to their turn. If they are out of the room, tough. We have a dedicated singing room, it's the skittle alley really, and that's where we sing. It's only a very small weekend but we have been going for 10 years and it was started in response to complaints just like those here. If you are a singer and you want to sing, and are happy to take your turn however famous you are, then you are very welcome. I'll post details closer to the time but just put 13,14,15 May 2005 in your diary now.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: LesB
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 01:52 PM

All this carping about singarounds at festivals. I don't feel that you can justifiably critisise the Festival if you havn't bought a ticket. In fact from my observations there seems to be a lot of you out there that don't buy tickets for Festivals. Remember it's those of us that do buy the tickets that enable the Festivals to keep running.
Les


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Sooz
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 02:18 PM

Well said LesB


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 02:43 PM

Getting back to the Thread Title - Singaround etiquette ? A singaround is only as good as the people who turn up.
Like Padgett ,a good mate of mine, I've run loads of singarounds.
The best method I found - I had people write their names on a sheet when they entered the room / with instrument or unaccompanied - in addition to the name of their home town. Enough ammo to give them a nice introduction - then give the next singer a nod that they would be "on" after this song.I could also give performers a good idea at what time they would be singing .The list enabled me to avoid the possibility of (say) three unaccompanied girls (or three unaccompanied guys) singing one after another .You could shuffle it around so it made an interesting mix of performers.
As for (say) Christie Moore or June Tabor turning up and being told to wait their turn - I don't think so - dream on - you should be so lucky.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 03:44 PM

MC Fat - thanks for the kind mention!

Carol - yes of course a good singaround depends on the singers who turn up, but it also depends very much on the experience of the MC whether the singers who turn up, and the audience, have a good time. And in my experience, also, it's self-perpetuating - MCs who build up a good rep for running good singarounds, get good singarounds.

Festival singarounds with programmed MCs are really a different kettle of fish from informal pub sessions. But if it's an organised singaround, it helps if the format is explained by the MC at the beginning.

It does rather depend on the venue - I'm lucky enough to run singarounds at Sidmouth and Chippenham that aren't in a pub with a serving bar.

I do, as a general principle, work round the room, but make a point of saying at the beginning that I'm aiming to ensure that anyone who was in the room at the beginning will get at least one song. Having said that, I'm also aware that some people who are keen to sing are working (eg as stewards) and just come when they can. So I generally explain beforehand where the singing is going to go, and why, and also ask people who are going to have to leave early to let me know. If there are time pressures, especially in the second half, I will suggest that singers save their Child ballads for the ballad session. I'll also check, by asking, how many singers are still waiting to sing. If I'm going to hop about (eg to get an alternation between male and female singers or between duos) I'll say so.

If a festival guest wanders in, and I reckon that I have time for them to sing and still get round the singers still waiting to sing, I will ask the festival guest to sing.

If you're in a pub where people are constantly coming and going it can be hard to keep track... it was quite good fun, in the Tap and Spile at Whitby last year when singing was determined by order of arrival and collection of a raffle ticket.

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: GUEST,Anne Croucher
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 06:08 PM

Kitty - where/when is a singaround at Sidmouth not in a pub?

I am hoping to be there for the week this year, so I would like to get information on singing locations ahead of time.

Anne


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: alanww
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 06:52 PM

Anne: Kitty usually runs a very good day-time SAR session in the Theatre Bar, which is not like a pub, being very much more, er, respectful!
"I like to rise ...!"
Alan
PS
Other SAR venues are the Bedford (mixed and jump in at all times of the day), the York (a very respectful evenings session run by Rosie) and, of course, the lunch and evening sessions in the Middle Bar of the Anchor, which is very much a pub, which is organised by Tony Day, rather than being a free-for-all, and which concentrates on unaccompanied primarily chorus songs. I'll see you there!


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 07:32 PM

The New Tavern and the Swan are mostly music sessions , but DO have songs as well , being totally MIXED sessions - Allsorts of music and all sorts of songs .


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 07:45 PM

Alan

Thanks - I realise that it seems odd to say there isn't a serving bar in the Theatre Bar, but they serve unobtrusively and don't disturb the singing!

Anne - I haven't received a working programme yet, but the singarounds generally start with a 12-2 session on the Saturday, and then run from 10.30am-2pm from Sunday through till Friday, with a change of MC at noon.

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: GUEST,Richard
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 07:46 PM

Another reason why some of you should try Gainsborough Folk Club...you have seen them on Mudcat...you have read what they have said...you take what you have seen on trust...and you give them a visit because you know this is where the heart is. Go for it folks!!!!!!. Go to Gainsborough for a sing-around...It will be worth it, I promise. It is not as organised as some of you seem to want but everyone gets a turn and usually twice...(ie, one song at a time leaving time to prepare for your second)
Give it a go if you are in the area, what have you to lose??????????


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: GUEST,Anne Croucher
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 08:33 PM

Ah -the theatre bar - yes - I think I have found that once before. I could breathe there, and therefore sing.

I can't sing at the Anchor any more as it is too airless and smokey down in the middle bar. It makes my voice transmogrify into a squeek.

I did find the tent behind the Volunteer last year, but was plagued by constant chattering.

Anne


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 07 Jul 04 - 02:34 AM

The Anchor Middle Bar Singers have been discussing with the landlord whether the Anchor could be made less smoky - conclusion is that a ban on smoking couldn't be policed in folk week, but it might be worth trying a voluntary code. Mind you, I found it quite smoky even during the February reunion when it's less crowded!

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Red and White Rabbit
Date: 07 Jul 04 - 02:36 AM

Before my twenty year break from singing I used to run singarounds at college and an unofficial singaround in Whitby week at the Middle Earth when it first opened.I knew the then landlord well (it being my local)and he was folk friendly so myself and a group called Tatters Cottage used to organise something in there. The session mainly consisted of locals and and day trippers with many diferent styles and tastes and sometimes no one who wanted to sing and plenty that wanted to listen. Singarounds are not as easy to organise as they look especially if you dont want three quiet women in successfion or two poets etc. but thats difficult if you dont know the people.

Like most of you I have sat in many a singaround. Cleckheaton, Holmfirth and Saddleworth are my local festivals and at two of them I run workshops and sing. The Wickham singaround room I dont like but the sessions tend to be as good as the people who come. You cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear however good you are at running singarounds but what you find is that certain people like MCFAT and Old Git Geoff Miller and Padgett Ken J and Judy Knight are so well known for organising good singarounds that you will get a lot of people there and get a good session going.

Personally I hate people who know better talking loudly through someone's song. Organisers who ignore the newbie in favour of their mates or people well known on the scene and people who walk in and out during the singing - oh yes and mobile phones going off!! Otherwise you can put a group of people in any pub to sing and if its going to be good it will be


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Jul 04 - 03:28 AM

Sue Dewsbury runs a very good singaround at the Gainsborough Folk Club.
She is very fair and ensures that everybody who wants to, gets a turn. If somebody has come a long distance, she will go out of her way to give them extra time, very often Sue and Mike and John Blanks forego there turns to enable that.
Consequently it is the norm to get a very good night there.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 07 Jul 04 - 05:56 AM

There's never going to be a right way or a wrong way to run a singaround as in previous threads some people think the Tap & Spile at Whitby Folk week is elitist and I agree to a point it is elitist but it's not exclusive and people have come and gone over the years I've been going. When it come to quality it's mega and the harmonies are stunning but some folks don't like our ability to be irreverent and not serious, taking the piss and having a laugh. I suppose folks like me Page Jude Ken etc have been around so long we know a lot of singers but occasionally I have to be reminded by R&WR that I've missed someone !!!


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 07 Jul 04 - 06:24 AM

Well Jim, you should be seeing Linda and myself again this year at the "Crap & Smile" - unless you ban us of course.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 07 Jul 04 - 06:58 AM

...wouldn't ban you two southern gits there wouldn't be anyone to insult !!!


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: VIN
Date: 07 Jul 04 - 08:48 AM

Hi Penny Black, what night is the 'Princess' session held.

Some good sing-a-rounds at Saddleworth, 'specially in the con club on late sat neet!

Sithee there, 16th, 17th, 18th July!


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: The Beast of Farlington
Date: 07 Jul 04 - 08:57 AM

Two reasons people take offence at the way singarounds are run.

1. The 'rules' are virtually never talked about and therefore obvious to everyone and so each person has different expectations of what will happen

2. Ask yourself why you feel aggrieved that a person has left after singing their song. Is it because they dod not stay to listen to you? If so, are you any less self-motivated than them?


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 07 Jul 04 - 09:24 AM

I thought the only good rule at a singaround was to enjoy yourself and have a bloody good sing.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: GUEST,Hugh Jampton
Date: 07 Jul 04 - 11:20 AM

Stick on a reasonable entry fee and then you will probably have fewer people coming in, doing their thing then clearing off.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 07 Jul 04 - 11:23 AM

Someone in another thread mentioned that the session's in Beverley were only spoiled by some people who had been thrown out of the irish session for incompetence !!! Perhaps we should institute a Mudcat Sponsored 'Folk Marque' and give it to accredited sessions.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 07 Jul 04 - 01:15 PM

Time to add me own two-penn'orth !

Carol it's good you started this thread. Those bugbears beloved of us old lags as well as aspiring newcomers to the SAR scene whether performers or listeners.

Worst of all I think is them that know it's their turn next, that faff about (right on there Sooz!) stumbling over everyone to reach for (or borrow) guitar/other instrument, then spend ages tuning up and/or recounting some tedious anecdote to cover their ineptitude in tuning. All of which uses up time in a crowded SAR and can deprive other singers of that much needed extra song. I don't feel like wasting that all too precious time. That's why I gave up playing guitar in public a couple of years ago and stick to unaccompanied singing. Sold it off to the lass's ex, went straight out and treated meself to a stack of Carthy CD's. Good deal that I thought.

Agree with you on the Moment of Glory folks too Rhiannon. Really infuriates that. Tho to be fair there's been times when I've seen that same impression can be wrongly given by say a festival steward or other helper who's waited patiently for his/her turn to come round then had to dash off after their song to be on duty at the campsite or other remote place.

Big "no-no's" too for me are a SAR starting late. Many a time I turn up for an advertised start time and nowt happens till the leader decrees a "quorum". Worst cases nearly an hour out of an allotted two and a half'll go by in idel chat, no wonder folks get peed off and leave.

As for SAR needing leader/s, well it can work both ways. Non-led SARs might so easily turn into a "dive in or duck out" where the less confident will lose out to the louder or more dominant – not always a good thing. But a fair leader can move things on with firm or gentle pressure and work wonders. My ideal rules be – no favouritism, no primadonnas, and keep things moving! A bit of irreverent fun can help too, but it needs to be kept in check. MCFat's list of "respected" leaders is a reliable guide, I've always rated Guest Padgett and Ken Johnson highly in that regard too, and he's right it ain't as easy as it sounds, but as they all say there's others – Geoff Miller, Malc Gurnham, Dave K, Eric P, Mick Pearce all spring to mind – who I've found make the best of what can be such a hit and miss event. And course it depends on who turns up I agree.

Sorry Nutty I been going to Cleckheaton for years now but I too found Cleck disappointing this year, at least the SAR's. (Tho' the booked guests were all tremendous I hastily add!) I'd endorse the Wickham landlord's support, he's a great bloke but he's saddled with a troublesome venue. Of which Carol's experience was sadly typical. If you followed Brid Widder's advice and "just move on through til you find one that suits", then you end up not getting to do a song in any of them I find. Oh and I turned up there at just after half past eight Sunday eve to find the entire pub bereft of folkies (but programme advertised a SAR). And almost no punters got a look in at the Sunday Sing this year either.

Which brings me to the last bit – someone asked why have SARs at all? Well there's no substitute for the process of singing a song out is there? However much you sing it in the car, at home, in the bath, cooking the dinner, walking the dog, word perfect maybe. You need to sing it out in front of an audience, of four or forty, and only then will you know whether it works. For all us nonprofessional singers it's simply our only chance.

So dont lets treat SARs as the poor relation, they've an important role to play in any festival.

Old money roolz OK!
M


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Jul 04 - 02:23 PM

Then there are the ones who repeat the first verse at the end for no real reason, and then keep waving their fingers around for chorus encores.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: GUEST,Guest Phil
Date: 07 Jul 04 - 04:38 PM

I only travel for one hour to get to Gainsborough folk club but the organisation and welcome you receive makes it worth while, a good club and very friendly. And everyone is ready when their turn comes around.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 05:15 PM

As far as etiquette goes I put it that some people at singarounds are rude by

a) joining in on a song or chorus with gusto before they know the version being done. Quieter singers are drowned and their interesting arrangements are lost to the better known versions.

b) singing choruses loud and slowing the whole thing down to a dirge.

For me the famous SARS that would be good are Whitby Tap an Spile but for a), and Towersey for b).


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Rasener
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 05:31 PM

Well Martin, put your money where your mouth is and come and MC the singaround at Market Rasen on Sunday the 29th August from 2:00 to late.
I will do an assesment of your qualities. What you say makes a lot of sense and fits my bill. :-)


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: PennyBlack
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 09:52 PM

Hi Vin....

Princess Session every Tuesday from 9.00pm new venue and still trying to find the best place in the pub to take over....

The Princess
Foxhall Road
Blackpool.

2 mins from Central Pier - map via the clicky linky thingy

If your up in the area - try and pop into The Steamer Lunchtime ARC collection - not a session but musicians singers welcome to do a spot (PA not acoustic) every Tuesday Lunch 11.30am - 2.30 pm (then off to the Princess after tea)


Have a look here for more info on above

PB


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: VIN
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 04:04 AM

Thanks for the info PennyB. Tho i live near Rochdale, i'll try and get to Blackpool at some point - find a b & b & join youse at the Princess - sounds a good gig for a true amateur like me.


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Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: JonnyDyer
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 11:01 PM

More spurious penny's worths!

I've really enjoyed reading this - especially as someone who can't sing for toffee but is really trying to get there.

Some of the suggested rules are really just trying to stop people behaving rudely - and these I applaud completely; trying to encourage people not to waste too much time with tuning, or taking over - jumping the queue, playing once and buggering off etc. Its a shame we have to consider such rules - but hey.

I was at the Glasson festival SARS mentioned earlier. Didn't stay the whole distance simply because it was too crowded - and I was sitting in the middle of the walkthrough blocking everyone's path and felt "in the way". The two that came to "run the club" were unfortunate because they thought that they were paid to run a club - though I guess if they have come in and watched for a few minutes, they could have seen an opportunity to be paid for doing nothing!

I've been seen small SARS and Playarounds where they have very strict rules (no instruments, no more than 4 verses etc) - and they wonder why no one turns up. Think about it guys - too many rules and you exclude everyone - so best not then complain that you only get three friends ever turning up.

I think my last point - is the need for self regulation. I think its only reasonable to keep each bit short .... but I have a few tunes that are 8-9 minutes long ... so will ask if any one minds and I'll play a long one and be missed out next time (or next wo times). There are some songs that have lots of verses - and don't make any sense without most of them included. Lets not exclude these songs just for a rule - but also ... lets be fair about time.

Surely this is the way to go. I get really fed up when I see a duo making really nice interesting harmonies - only to be drowned out by everyone singing the chorus "the same old way". Have respect listeners to what's going on.

But then ..... better still .... why not feel free to say what you want when you start. "I'm singing XXXXX, please join in" or "my version of XXXX please can I sing it on my own" or "singing XXXX; its in G for any guitarists" etc.

That way there is room for everyone. The best bit for me at Glasson was the guy singing a WhiteSnake tune. Totally uexpected - and done nicely with acoustic guitar. I can think of a few clubs that wouldn't have allowed it - due to it being a rock song.

More fool them.

That's all from me.


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