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Subject: RE: ADD: A Place Called England (Maggie Holland) From: Jos Date: 11 May 21 - 08:07 AM I'm glad you asked, as it prompted me to look back through the thread. The information was given by Maggie Holland herself, in 2004: Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST,Maggie Holland - PM Date: 15 Jul 04 - 04:49 AM Back to the original question for a moment - yes, the "Mr Harding" in "A Place Called England" is indeed a reference to my earlier song "A Proper Sort of Gardener". Mr Harding was employed as a gardener for many years by Courages Brewery in Alton, Hants. He tended several gardens of houses that were owned by the brewery, including the one that I lived in as a child. The last time I met him was when I was visiting my parents' grave in Alton (in the early 80s, I think) and although long retired he had chosen to keep gardening by helping to keep the cemetery tidy. |
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Subject: RE: ADD: A Place Called England (Maggie Holland) From: Dave Hanson Date: 11 May 21 - 06:13 AM oops, my apology. Dave H |
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Subject: RE: ADD: A Place Called England (Maggie Holland) From: Jos Date: 11 May 21 - 05:00 AM To Dave Hanson See this post: From: GUEST,henryp - PM Date: 04 May 21 - 04:48 AM "A Mr. Harding sort of England, hanging in there by a thread." Mr Harding was the subject of an earlier song by Maggie Holland, "A Proper Sort of Gardener". A retired brewery worker, he was the gentle gardener in the house she grew up in in Alton, Hampshire, the head brewer's house. . . . |
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Subject: RE: ADD: A Place Called England (Maggie Holland) From: DaveRo Date: 11 May 21 - 04:41 AM CULVERTON HOUSE Early maps will show whether the brewey took its garden. If so we need to do 'A House Through Time' and see if Mr Harding appears in the records. |
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Subject: RE: ADD: A Place Called England (Maggie Holland) From: Dave Hanson Date: 11 May 21 - 04:39 AM What has that got to do with this song ? Dave H |
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Subject: RE: ADD: A Place Called England (Maggie Holland) From: GUEST,Mark Date: 11 May 21 - 04:13 AM The big house by the entrance is a Regency beauty, fallen on hard times, with not a lot of land around it, considering the sort of house it is. Here it is. It could well have been the head brewer's - the brewery long predates the Harp Lager connection. I think at some point it may have been used as office space. The old Maltings, a short walk from the brewery site, have been beautifully modernised and adapted, and are now run by a church as their place of worship and an arts venue - I've seen some nice, simple, opera stagings there, and even performed there myself (not folk as such - guitar and voice with a musical theatre group). |
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Subject: RE: ADD: A Place Called England (Maggie Holland) From: Dave Hanson Date: 11 May 21 - 02:44 AM A great song IMHO Joe. Dave H |
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Subject: ADD: Perfumes of Arabia (Maggie Holland) From: Joe Offer Date: 10 May 21 - 06:14 PM Another good song by Maggie Holland: Perfumes of Arabia I was driving on a journey when I turned my radio on
I heard the voice of the airman as his plane fell from the sky
They say the sands are filled with corpses and the wells are filled with blood
I couldn't bear to hear it so I turned the volume down
I've tried sandalwood and roses, I've tried Eau de Cologne as well -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: ADD: A Place Called England (Maggie Holland) From: GUEST Date: 04 May 21 - 03:25 PM Guest Mark Bass Brewing (Alton), Manor Park Brewery, Alton, Hampshire. This large Harp Lager brewery was established by the Harp Consortium in 1961. The Consortium consisted of Guinness in partnership with Courage Barclays, Mitchells & Butlers, and Scottish & Newcastle. It first brewed in December 1962. In September 1979, Bass Charrington Ltd acquired the brewery and the adjacent Alton Brewery Co site. The brands brewed were predominantly Carling and Tennents. Following the government's 'beer orders', Bass sold the brewery to Coors in December 2001. UrbexCamo JANUARY 18, 2018 AT 11:52 PM Just an update… working next to the site at the moment and security is still quite hot but there are ways in! New cameras up sice the last few times we got in but externally nothing has changed in years. There is also a big abandoned house belonging to the brewery to the left of the main gate, worth a look if you're there. A big abandoned house belonging to the brewery...could that be the house for the head brewer of the Alton Brewery? |
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Subject: RE: ADD: A Place Called England (Maggie Holland) From: DaveRo Date: 04 May 21 - 01:37 PM GUEST,Bob wrote: I know someone who knew Daniel, aka Swampy. Unfortunately he gave up being an eco warrior to be - I kid you not - an accountant.Swampy may be an accountant - though I doubt it - but he's still an eco-warrior. Most recently down a tunnel at Euston station in London with his teenaged son. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swampy_(environmentalist) There's a reference in there to a song written about him: "The Fairmile Road Protest Song (Digging Down)" |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Place Called England From: GUEST,Mark Date: 04 May 21 - 11:22 AM As an Alton resident, I was interested by henryp's information. The Coors Brewery demolition is now well underway, and there are (supposedly) plans for a less brutal development on Mr Harding's garden. Knowing the developers, I doubt the results will resemble the artists' impressions very closely. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Place Called England From: MoorleyMan Date: 04 May 21 - 09:21 AM I've been reviving this excellent song of Maggie's a lot recently (not least as a relevant calendarical entry on sessions!), and I sang it at the Mudcat Singaround yesterday. I find the text doesn't really vary between the original versions sung by June Tabor and Maggie Holland herself. I did notice that Maggie on her 2012 YouTube live recording sings "come from" instead of "belong" at the end of the second line of the first verse, also she adds "So" at the start of verse 5, and sings "badly used" instead of "sore abused" in the first line of the final verse.... Most recently, the Young'Uns covered the song on their "Strangers" CD, and made a couple of changes to the lyric, as follows: singing "just" instead of "only" in the final line of verse 2, and substituting as the final line of verse 6, "Just less room for the rich landowner, he can stay in the Virgin Isles". So there you go Joe, hope that cleans up sufficiently! It's still a very powerful song, with so many important resonances for our time. A true classic IMHO. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Place Called England From: Long Firm Freddie Date: 04 May 21 - 07:52 AM June Tabor - Place Called England LFF |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Place Called England From: GUEST,henryp Date: 04 May 21 - 04:48 AM "A Mr. Harding sort of England, hanging in there by a thread." Mr Harding was the subject of an earlier song by Maggie Holland, "A Proper Sort of Gardener". A retired brewery worker, he was the gentle gardener in the house she grew up in in Alton, Hampshire, the head brewer's house. From Mainly Norfolk; Maggie Holland sang her own song A Proper Sort of Gardener. on her 1992 album Down to the Bone. She commented in the album's sleeve notes: "I was exclusively a singer of other people's songs who didn't believe she could write, until 1987 when Jon Moore persuaded me to do so through a combination of nagging and encouragement. Initially, he also wrote tunes for my words; included are Sandy Hill, Never Too Late, and A Proper Sort of Gardener. The latter is, like all the best once-upon-a-time stories, completely true; the Bass beer factory still stands on the site of Mr Harding's garden in Alton, Hants. Mr Harding was recently laid to rest in the same graveyard as my parents." And now the brewery too is no more than a memory. In 2014, Heineken announced that it would not be renewing the contract and, as a result, Molson Coors embarked on a review of its UK brewery network. That resulted in the brewery's closure in May 2015 to end 52 years of brewing on the Manor Park site, and the loss of 108 jobs. According to CALA Homes, it will be working closely with Molson Coors and East Hampshire District Council "to deliver a sustainable, residentially-led, mixed-use scheme that will provide much-needed housing in the area". |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Leadfingers Date: 03 Dec 09 - 07:05 AM WAV - Maggie had been living North of the Border for YEARS before she wrote 'A Place called England' |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: WalkaboutsVerse Date: 03 Dec 09 - 04:49 AM Last I heard, after releasing "A Place Called England", Maggie Holland moved to Scotland..? |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST,Pete Stanton Date: 03 Dec 09 - 04:04 AM Have just discovered this place. What a fantastic source of information, especially when Maggie Holland herself joins in. Many thanks to you all. Peter |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Tim Leaning Date: 23 Jul 09 - 01:39 AM Lovely songs those we heard them from Stitherum and they really bring the images to life. |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST,GUEST, RTS Date: 22 Jul 09 - 11:49 PM Check out June Tabor's performance on You Tube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV6xiU4XyoM |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: RobbieWilson Date: 20 Apr 05 - 05:53 AM Bekki, You haven't said whether you managed to get Bill Caddick CD's yeat. He sends them out direct from his home in Jackfield. That's how I got mine; gave him a cheque and he sent it in the post. The double CD retrospective "UnicornsW is well woth having. |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: The Borchester Echo Date: 19 Apr 05 - 04:38 PM What a brilliant idea though I fear you're not giving them an awful lot of time to rehearse for it! Good cue to plug Ceilidh Aid yet again though. All artists (Tiger Moth, Oysterband, Gloworms, Eliza Carthy, Billy Bragg, Morris Offspring, Hammersmith Morris) performing without fee and all proceeds going to the tsunami relief fund. At The Forum, Kentish Town, 7 pm to 1 am. All details here. |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST,Lettie Date: 19 Apr 05 - 04:13 PM They're on the same bill on Saturday at the Forum in London, Maggie in her other role as bassperson in Tigermoth and Billy with the Blokes. And its Staint George day. Perhaps a duet set on A Place Called England, A New England and The World Turned Upside Down would be in order . . . ? |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: NormanD Date: 19 Apr 05 - 12:56 PM "...the ultimate folk song for England." Agreed! When will Billy Bragg record it? |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: breezy Date: 19 Apr 05 - 11:53 AM This song is for me the ultimate folk song for England. It deserves all the accolades it gets. |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST,Dave H Date: 26 Oct 04 - 11:17 AM Maggie's last 2 CDs can be ordered from Robb Johnson www.irregularrecords.co.uk |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST Date: 20 Oct 04 - 04:57 AM Peter, Finally occurred to me to start another thread and someone did suggest Hobgoblin Bekki |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Pete_Standing Date: 19 Oct 04 - 03:16 PM You could try Hobgoblin, or start a new thread such as "CD shop in London for Folk Music - Where?" |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST Date: 19 Oct 04 - 02:54 PM Thanks for the help, I'm still hoping to find a cd shop in London... Bekki |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Willa Date: 19 Oct 04 - 02:19 PM A google search brought up this website for Maggie Hollan CDs. Don't know whether they are still available, but it's worth a try.http://www.rhiannonrecords.co.uk/text/5008.html |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Willa Date: 19 Oct 04 - 02:11 PM Bearheart Can't help with your original request, but here's the Bill Caddick website- you could email him to find out where to get his CDs from. Bill Caddick link http://matm.co.uk/BillCaddick/ |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST,Bearheart, visiting Kent Date: 19 Oct 04 - 05:30 AM I posted in August, hoping someone would know of a shop here I could get some CDs (also interested in Les Barker and Bill Caddick, by the way). No one answered my query. But we're going up to London tomorrow to see the British Museum and possibly a couple of other things. It's my second visit here and we're just getting to London but I have made it to the New Forest,Avebury, the Pinetum and Kingley Vale this time. Incredible! I didn't think anything could come close to the Uffington Horse, Stonehenge, Chalice Well and Wayland's Smithy (our last visit) but I was wrong!... And I've still not made it to Ireland, Scotland or the Isle of Mann... But one day in the city is about all I can manage! So maybe if no one knows a shop near me, there is one in London that wouldn't be too hard to find? Thanks Bekki |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Sooz Date: 24 Aug 04 - 08:11 AM I agree - it's so much more "English"! (Especially with the Morris-type tune tacked on the end.) |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Stu Date: 24 Aug 04 - 06:51 AM I just got the Maggie Holland CD 'Getting There' from my wife for my birthday. I had a quick listen to Maggie's original version of 'A PLace Called England' - I love it, a really superb version and better than the June Tabor one (which I alway liked). I'll listen to the rest of the CD this afternoon after the pub! |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Bearheart Date: 05 Aug 04 - 07:38 PM So where can we find these Maggie Holland CDs in the US? And are there record shops in Kent where I can find them when I come over? Bekki |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST,Maggie Holland Date: 31 Jul 04 - 08:29 AM Thanks for this information, Mick - she is almost certainly the Eileen I remembered reading about! Maggie |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST,MCP Date: 30 Jul 04 - 04:13 PM Maggie The woman was probably Eileen Halliday of Dudbridge who took on Sainsbury's. See Saving Nine - Biography of Eileen Halliday Mick |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 30 Jul 04 - 11:40 AM I'll second Sooz on that Maggie, high time you came back to Gainsborough. Your previous visit was one of our best nights ever, IMHO. And we've got a new, bigger and far quieter room now! Best wishes, John :0) |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Stu Date: 30 Jul 04 - 10:58 AM Thanks Maggie! I'm off to have a twang on me bouzouki . . . |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Leadfingers Date: 30 Jul 04 - 09:36 AM Maggie - You are TOO kind !! |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST,Maggie Holland Date: 30 Jul 04 - 09:21 AM The chords I play are: G D G G C G G D G D G G C G D G C G D G C G D G C G D G C G D G I attempt to pick out the tune on the treble strings while playing these. It's also easy on the banjo if you're a frailer. If you fancy dancing to it ( and why not?) I'm told it's a sort of hornpipe. |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Stu Date: 16 Jul 04 - 06:03 AM Yes, thanks for the info Maggie. I will be looking up the books in the song, especially on the Diggers, who really interest me. The song reflects a fundamental point about the nature of English consiousness that is sometimes forgotten and almost never commented upon by the chatterers in the media- our connection (or lack thereof) with the land. During the recent wave of flag-waving brought about by Euro 2004, an article in the Observer (or Grauniad), asked two people about their identity as English. One, a townie sort (like myself), gave the usual answers about reclaiming the flag etc, but the other chap, a farmer from the Cotswolds if memory serves me correctly, said his connection was with the land, and how could anyone know England (or any other part of the world) if they are not connected to the land? It is this point which 'A Place Called England' makes so beautifully, and why the song seems to inspire such emotions when people discuss it - the more info, the merrier! Would it be too cheeky to ask which chords you play? |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST,Sooz(at work) Date: 15 Jul 04 - 05:02 AM Thanks for all that Maggie! Time you came back to Gainsborough - you could become a member, its a great way to keep in touch. |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST,Maggie Holland Date: 15 Jul 04 - 04:49 AM Back to the original question for a moment - yes, the "Mr Harding" in "A Place Called England" is indeed a reference to my earlier song "A Proper Sort of Gardener". Mr Harding was employed as a gardener for many years by Courages Brewery in Alton, Hants. He tended several gardens of houses that were owned by the brewery, including the one that I lived in as a child. The last time I met him was when I was visiting my parents' grave in Alton (in the early 80s, I think) and although long retired he had chosen to keep gardening by helping to keep the cemetery tidy. I alerted his son John to your discussion, which he has been reading with interest. Sooz seems to have got the words down pretty accurately - I would just point out that in the last line of "Place Called England" I sing "We shall plant the seed they saved US, common wealth and common ground" (rather than "as") - but mind you, I don't play the same chords as Hamish either (no minors) -the folk process is alive and well! If anyone can remember the surname of Eileen in the Cotswolds who wouldn't sell her garden to Sainsbury/Tesco/whoever I'd be grateful to know it, as people often ask me about her and I failed to keep the original press cutting. I first read about the Diggers etc in Christopher Hill's scholarly book "The World Turned Upside-Down". Leon's fine song paraphrases quite a bit of their manifesto. And a novelist's impression of the times can be found in Naomi Mitcheson's "The sea-green ribbons". There are quite a few more references to books, songs, etc in " A Place Called England", but that'll have to do for now. All the best Maggie |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: The Borchester Echo Date: 13 Jul 04 - 04:54 AM Good Old Days? 'Twas a mere half decade or so ago that Maggie recorded A Place Called England on her solo album Getting there with Alan Prosser of the Oysterband guesting. Soon afterwards, June Tabor's recording won Best Original Song at the 1999 BBC Folk Awards. |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Leadfingers Date: 13 Jul 04 - 04:24 AM Guest Ohh-Aah , I humbly suggest that you find the Maggie Holland recording and forget about the June Tabor version . I still have fond memories of busking this on whistle with Maggie back in the good old days . |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah Date: 12 Jul 04 - 05:38 PM The lyrics of this song are excellent (albeit with that touch of apology for daring to love one's own country which infects too many modern English songs), but I found June Tabor's singing of it a great disappointment - tremulous and whispery, with no guts or anger. She always sounds as if she has too much saliva in her mouth and is frightened to sing properly for fear it will spill out. |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Stu Date: 12 Jul 04 - 08:52 AM Cheers Hamish! I'll have a go on my bouzouki this afternoon. |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST, Hamish Date: 12 Jul 04 - 05:41 AM Try: D A D D G D(F#) Em A D A D D G D(F#) Em/A D G D(F#) Em D G D(F#) Em D G D(F#) Em D G D(F#) Em/A D with tuning as drop D. (Off the top of my head I think that's how I play it, nut it's not always easy to remember without a guitar in place. And I'm at work in an open plan office, and, yes? what's that? yes, right away sir! Certainly. No - it won't happen again) |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Stu Date: 12 Jul 04 - 05:35 AM Swampy an accountant? Heck. |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST,Bob Date: 12 Jul 04 - 05:10 AM I know someone who knew Daniel, aka Swampy. Unfortunately he gave up being an eco warrior to be - I kid you not - an accountant. |
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