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Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?

DigiTrad:
THE BANTRY GIRLS LAMENT
THE BANTRY GIRL'S LAMENT (2)


Related threads:
(origins) Origins: Bantry Girls lament (60)
Folklore: re.bantry girl's lament - Moneymore?? (13)
req:You Are Come of Gentle Blood/Lesson in Heroism (11)
Chords Req: The Bantry Girl's Lament (10)


ChildoftheSea 05 Jul 04 - 09:09 PM
open mike 05 Jul 04 - 09:25 PM
Nerd 05 Jul 04 - 09:25 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Jul 04 - 09:25 PM
ChildoftheSea 05 Jul 04 - 09:41 PM
MudGuard 06 Jul 04 - 02:33 AM
Mr Happy 06 Jul 04 - 04:32 AM
MartinRyan 06 Jul 04 - 07:11 AM
GUEST,nickr90 09 Jul 04 - 01:57 PM
PoppaGator 09 Jul 04 - 02:31 PM
Fiolar 10 Jul 04 - 08:09 AM
GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) 10 Jul 04 - 11:55 AM
GUEST,Guest, Big Tim 13 Aug 05 - 03:45 AM
mikesamwild 18 Apr 11 - 11:33 AM
MartinRyan 18 Apr 11 - 11:41 AM
mikesamwild 18 Apr 11 - 12:12 PM
MartinRyan 18 Apr 11 - 12:31 PM
MartinRyan 18 Apr 11 - 12:34 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 18 Apr 11 - 12:53 PM
MartinRyan 18 Apr 11 - 01:27 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 18 Apr 11 - 01:51 PM
JHW 18 Apr 11 - 04:22 PM
MartinRyan 18 Apr 11 - 04:30 PM
Thompson 19 Apr 11 - 11:12 AM
GUEST,Fiairefeá 22 Jun 11 - 06:47 AM
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Subject: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: ChildoftheSea
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 09:09 PM

I love the song "Bantry Girl's lament" and have researched all about the time period and the words and origins, but one fact eludes me: What is a Bantry Girl and what did she do? This would help me alot..thanks!!


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: open mike
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 09:25 PM

in Star of the County Down i think there is a place name called Bantry Bay. Not knowing the song you refer to , that is the only reference I can come up with.


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: Nerd
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 09:25 PM

Bantry, I think, is a town.


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 09:25 PM

She lived in Bantry, Co. Cork? And mourned Johnnie, gone to fight in the Peninsular Wars?
Not sure what you are after.
See thread 44455 and others listed there for discussion of the song: Bantry Girl


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: ChildoftheSea
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 09:41 PM

That makes alot of sense...I think you are right..thanks alot


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: MudGuard
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 02:33 AM

Bantry, Co. Cork, is a small town in the south west of Ireland located at 51°41'N 9°27'W - on the southern shore of Bantry Bay.


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 04:32 AM

http://www.westcork.com/bantry-tourism/gettingto.html


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 07:11 AM

It's a bit confusing but - the Bantry in this case is actually in County Wexford, in the South East of Ireland. I think the details are in another thread - but don't have time at the moment to dig it up.

Either way - Bantry is the name of the place from where the girl came...

Regards


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: GUEST,nickr90
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 01:57 PM

AS Martin Ryan said Bantry is the area she came from - it is a townland in County Wexford but may also be in other counties.
Nicky


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 02:31 PM

I was aware of the town named Bantry at the head of Bantry Bay in the southwest corner of Ireland; I didn't know about any Bantry in Co Wexford in the southeast, but I don't doubt that it's there.

I'm not surprised two Bantrys might exist, because I know it's not the only town name that occurs in more than one Irish county. There's a Turlough in County Mayo, just outside Castlebar, site of a very interesting and fairly new museum documenting old-time "Country Life" in the West of Ireland. I'm not sure exactly where the other Turlough is located, but we had already encountered one such town elsewhere before visiting the museum in Mayo's Turlough. Who knows --there might be three or more of them; "turlough" is the Irish word for a kind of pond or lake that appears seasonally, drying up and disappearing underground for part of each year.

Hopefully, a given town name can be used only once per county! The confusion would be too much otherwise.


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: Fiolar
Date: 10 Jul 04 - 08:09 AM

PoppaGator: Her are the details about Bantry, County Wexford:


TOWNLAND         ACRES BARONY   PARISH          PLU (Poor Law Union)
Bantry Commons        1,514        Bantry        Templeludigan        New Ross
Bantry Commons        545        Bantry        St. Mullin's        New Ross
Bantry Commons        1,640        Bantry        Killann         Enniscorthy

As you can seen one of the above has connections with the song "Kelly, the Boy from Killann".


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 10 Jul 04 - 11:55 AM

A lady who walks like William Petersen in CSI.

Oh, sorry. Thought you said 'Bandy Girl'.


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: GUEST,Guest, Big Tim
Date: 13 Aug 05 - 03:45 AM

This verse of the song also ties it to Co. Wexford,

The boys will sorely miss you,
When Moneyhore comes round,
And grieve that their bold captain,
Is nowhere to be found.

Moneyhore is a townland about two miles SW of Enniscorthy, Co. Wexford. In his "Enniscorthy: History and Heritage" (1998) Micheál Tóibín says, "That fine ballad 'The Bantry Girls' Lament' calls to mind the celebrated Fair of Moneyhore. The passing of a century has brought to an end these old village fairs and lent to them a romantic glow which will linger on in popular memory long after the dates of the gatherings and locations of the [fair] greens are forgotten".

(Re duplication of place names, there are dozens of Dublins in the US! See "Sweet Liberty" by Josephy O' Connor).


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: mikesamwild
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 11:33 AM

re Dulication eg Turlough --- was Turlough OCarolan linked or did the Irish use place names a a first name ?


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 11:41 AM

mikesamwild

IIRC the christian name Turlough is an anglicised version of an Irish name which is usually translated as Terence. Even though I have comparatively good Irish, I'll have to check on the original spelling! While a "turlough" is a drying lake and an element of some placenames, I reckon it's not relevant in this case.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: mikesamwild
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 12:12 PM

Thanks Martin , I'd be very interested as we have a Carolan workshop here in Sheffield


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 12:31 PM

I'm open to correction on this one but, essentially:

Toirdhealbhach is the old spelling of his name, rendered in Roman script and with h replacing the "séimhiú" mark or dot above a consonant which shows lenition (changes the sound or eliminates it). In modern Irish it becomes Traolach. Turlough is a kind of intermediate form which retains some Gaelic character but is used in English. Still with me....? ;>)

Regards


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 12:34 PM

Incidentally, there's a 19C. biographical note on Carolan HERE .

Regards


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 12:53 PM

Even more incidentally, the book the reference was taken from, Joseph C. Walker's Historical Memoirs of the Irish Bards, can be downloaded in full through Google books.


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 01:27 PM

Thanks Peter - must do that...

Regards


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 01:51 PM

Daly's The Poets and Poetry of Munster is on there as well


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: JHW
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 04:22 PM

Any ideas on a boreen green?
(Actually I'd always thought it was a boring green but just checked aka Mondegreens, Perpetuated Errors at al)


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 04:30 PM

JHW

"boreen" is an anglicised version of the Irish word "bóthairín" which is a diminutive of "bóthar" - which means "road". So a boreen is a country road or track, basically.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: Thompson
Date: 19 Apr 11 - 11:12 AM

Factoid: a bóthar (road) is wide enough that two herds of cattle (bó = cow) can pass; a bóithrín, pronounced bore-een, is a small road.


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Subject: RE: Origins: What is a Bantry Girl?
From: GUEST,Fiairefeá
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 06:47 AM

Bóthar comes from bó & thar A cow lengthways and a cow wide the standard measure for a road in Brehon law.


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