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How to Correct Songs in Mudcat Database

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GUEST,padgett 02 Aug 04 - 05:37 AM
George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca 20 Jul 04 - 03:22 PM
GUEST,MMario 20 Jul 04 - 03:02 PM
Betsy 20 Jul 04 - 02:52 PM
George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca 20 Jul 04 - 01:40 PM
Betsy 20 Jul 04 - 01:11 PM
GUEST 19 Jul 04 - 03:58 PM
GUEST,Betsy 19 Jul 04 - 02:25 PM
GUEST,MMario 19 Jul 04 - 02:23 PM
GUEST 19 Jul 04 - 02:18 PM
GUEST,MMario 19 Jul 04 - 01:27 PM
Snuffy 19 Jul 04 - 01:14 PM
GUEST,MMario 19 Jul 04 - 09:45 AM
John in Brisbane 19 Jul 04 - 09:36 AM
Joe Offer 19 Jul 04 - 12:45 AM
Little Robyn 17 Jul 04 - 05:19 PM
Bill D 17 Jul 04 - 02:30 PM
GUEST,smiler 17 Jul 04 - 01:55 PM
GUEST,Prize Pedant 17 Jul 04 - 01:31 PM
GUEST 17 Jul 04 - 01:19 PM
GUEST,Betsy 17 Jul 04 - 12:39 PM
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Subject: RE: How to Correct Songs in Mudcat Database
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 02 Aug 04 - 05:37 AM

Betsy's response shows a good deal of maturity, you should have known him 20 years ago
Nice song Pete!


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Subject: RE: How to Correct Songs in Mudcat Database
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 03:22 PM

As MMario says, don't apologize. You didn't do anything wrong.


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Subject: RE: How to Correct Songs in Mudcat Database
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 03:02 PM

no need to apologize - Internet trolls are known for knowing how to push buttons.


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Subject: RE: How to Correct Songs in Mudcat Database
From: Betsy
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 02:52 PM

Hiya George ,
Apologies to all, and thankyou for your mature advice - it is much appreciated and makes sense.I live and learn .
Cheers.


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Subject: RE: How to Correct Songs in Mudcat Database
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 01:40 PM

Nice song, Pete.

My own opinion is to not respond to that sort of posting. They're trying to get a response out of you, and if you don't give them one, they're the one who loses out.


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Subject: RE: How to Correct Songs in Mudcat Database
From: Betsy
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 01:11 PM

Thankyou Guest 19 Jul 04 - 03:58 PM - most spineless bastards admire aberrations.


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Subject: RE: How to Correct Songs in Mudcat Database
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 03:58 PM

I like the lyrics in the data base better than the "original" just posted. Please keep the one in the data base.


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Subject: RE: How to Correct Songs in Mudcat Database
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 02:25 PM

Thanks M.Mario and Snuffy - your hearts are in the right place.
Apologies also to all - I was obviously in a a bit of a hurry I forgot to put my name on that previous message.


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Subject: RE: How to Correct Songs in Mudcat Database
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 02:23 PM

not to worry regarding the @music

That's a tag that lets the DigiTrad be sorted - in this case your song is marked as being one about "music"


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Subject: RE: How to Correct Songs in Mudcat Database
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 02:18 PM

Prize Pedant - please change your handle to Prize Prick, and , Smiler demonstrating an equal level of stupidity in inferring in his / her remark that I lacked a modicum of intelligence.
Such arrogance is truly embarrassing
In the absent of lateral thinking - let me point out that my guest / nickname is derived from my actual Surname and there is no gender connection - I am a male of the species.
Thanks Joe for some intelligent directions.
Right, after that bout of unpleasantness - aroused by unhelpful people, let me explain: -

1. The point is, if I had been looking for the words for this song and I wanted the definitive version, I would have looked in the Database and found some thing which is vastly different from the one I wrote which is the (fairly) widely-sang and known version.
2. I didn't put the song into the Database, I don't know how – I think someone who recorded it may have done.
3. The data base credits the Song to me by Surname only – and assumes – I might be from "The States".
4. I am English – the version posted in the Database has had made many changes to the song to suit his Scottish tongue.
5. There is a thread in Mudcat regarding this Song.
6. The data base version also has something which looks like @music which worries me that someone may be claiming copyright – but it's a song I've shared with many e.g.
Tony Capstick ( x 2 LPs)
Vin Garbutt
Gary and Vera Aspey
Marie Little
Myself and various other good hearted minstrels and is sung in many English speaking gatherings – Folk Clubs and Festivals, in Britain and throughout the world.

In the Thread http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=51670#788770 http://www.mudcat.org/Detail.CFM? Messages__Message_ID=788770
McGrath of Hounslow (amongst others) earns my eternal gratitude for attempting to right a wrong. I tried to attach a file with the correct version, but the preview suggests it hasn't worked so I give you the full song below. I hope you will appreciate the difference in the spirit and content of the words, compared to that in the Database and I hope you will realise why I wish to know, as the Thread says "How to Correct Songs in Mudcat Database"

THEY DON'T WRITE 'EM LIKE THAT ANYMORE          WORDS AND MUSIC
          ('EE HOW WE COULD SING)                                  PETE BETTS


DAD'S DRUNK AGAIN AND HE'S BROUGHT LOTS OF MEN,
AND THEIR WIVES, HOME FROMTHE CLUB,
THER'S A SHORTAGE OF BEER BUT YOU NEED HAVE NO FEAR ,
BERT'S GONE ROUND THE BACK DOOR OF THE PUB,
SOMEONE'S PLAYING THE PIANA AS IF USING A SLEDGE HAMMER,
CRUCIFYING "THERE GOES MY HEART",
THEN A BURST THROUGH THE DOOR – IT'S BERT AND WHATS-MORE,
HE'S GOT THE BEER, SO WE'RE READY TO START.

CHORUS

'EE HOW WE COULD SING WHAT FUN THOSE NIGHTS WOULD BRING,
SINGING FOR HOURS ON END,
ONCE WE'D FOUND A KEY - OH! WHAT HARMONY!
THOSE BOOZY VOICES COULD LEND,
"HEART-OF-MY-HEART" JUST FOR A START,
OR" WALKING MY BABY BACK HOME "
WHEN IT COMES TO AN END, IT'S -LET'S SING IT AGAIN!,
THEY DON'T WRITE 'EM LIKE THAT ANYMORE


OUR MAM'S IN THE KITCHEN TRYING TO KNOCK-UP A SNACK,
FROM THE CHICKEN WE HAD THIS AFTERNOON,
JACK SEZ "WHERE'S THE TOILET " DAD SEZ "DOWN THE BACK"
BY THE LOOKS, NOT A MINUTE TOO SOON!
A LAUGH GOES ROUND THE WHOLE HOUSE, JACK FELL IN THE COAL-HOUSE,
MAN! HE'S AS DRUNK AS A NEWT,
BUT WITH HIS FACE COVERED BLACK, - HE'S NOT TAKEN ABACK,
HE SINGS "MAMMY", AND THE REST FOLLOW SUIT.


HALF PAST ONE IN THE MORNING, OUR DAD'S STARTED YAWNING,
HE'S GOT TO BE WORKING AT SIX,
A BORED AUDIENCE IS WATCHING, WHILE KENNY IS BOTCHING,
AND MESSING - UP EASY CARD TRICKS,
STILL IT'S TIME TO GO NOW, AND DAD'S GOT SOMEHOW,
TO GET THEM ALL TO GO HOME,
AND WHEN YOU'RE ALL FULL OF BEER, THE LAST THING YOU'D WANT TO HEAR,
IS, A TUNE ON HIS PAPER AND COMB!


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Subject: RE: How to Correct Songs in Mudcat Database
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 01:27 PM

*grin* I was speaking in generic terms of course - not specifically Betsy's particular song.


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Subject: RE: How to Correct Songs in Mudcat Database
From: Snuffy
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 01:14 PM

It seems you don't write them like that any more, Betsy. Hope to hear the proper version at Saltburn


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Subject: RE: How to Correct Songs in Mudcat Database
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 09:45 AM

there is also judgement calls to be made regarding "correct" versions - there are cases where someone has complained about "incorrect" lyrics (ie: not the version they know) - and the AUTHOR of the lyrics has stated they are correct as written. Certainly not the case always - but given that many of the songs in the database have many versions - the best that can be hoped for is "snapshots".

Thinking of the DT and the forum as a jumping off place - a "desk reference" rather then a definative source helps.


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Subject: RE: How to Correct Songs in Mudcat Database
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 09:36 AM

I must admit I did enjoy the clever construction of Guest's post. But try creating (say) a NoteWorthy Composer file for a song you know well which integrates the tune and aligned lyrics, plus additional middle eights, choruses, extra verses and collection notes and you'll quickly see that it's a time-consuming process. Next try it with a song you've never heard of, give up in disgust when you find that the tune and lyrics can't possibly match (at least some of the time) and then you might appreciate that this thankless task is sheer tedium. I have nothing to do with the updating of the DT, nor would I wish to.

In my mind the DT folk song collection comprises both the formal DT and the contents of the Forum. The tools are provided online to interrogate both parts of the overall collection concurrently. The simple fact that the downloadable version is not up-to-date is more than adequately compensated by the wealth of knowledge in the Forum.

Cheers, John


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Subject: RE: How to Correct Songs in Mudcat Database
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 12:45 AM

Hi, Betsy -
If there's already a thread on the song, post the lyrics there. If not, start a new thread and post the correct lyrics.

If it's just a little correction or adding songwriter attribution, you can post a message in our Attribution PermaThread. There's a PermaThread Index in the dropdown menu at the top of the list of threads).

The Digital Tradition Folk Song Database gets updated every year or so, and the updating process is complicated. The last update was finished several months ago, but now it has been delayed by a programming holdup. So, yeah, updating the Digital Tradition isn't a speedy process.

If you post a message, we'll do our best to see that it gets crossindexed to the Digital Tradition entry immediately. If it isn't crossindexed within a day or two after you posted it, send me a reminder by Personal Message (Mudcat members), or by e-mail.

Thanks.

-Joe Offer-
joe@mudcat.org


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Subject: RE: How to Correct Songs in Mudact Database
From: Little Robyn
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 05:19 PM

And how about correcting titles to threads? I didn't know we had a Mudact Database on Mudcat.
Funny how the brain can miss a simple mistake when you think you've typed something the right way round.
Sorry, I'm not being picky - it just tickled my funny bone.
Robyn

[done--thanks for noticing]


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Subject: RE: How to Correct Songs in Mudact Database
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 02:30 PM

Betsy..one way is to post the **CORRECT** version as YOU know it to be...we have folks who harvest these and put them into the queue for the next update...until then, the right version will be here in the forum, and can be found on a search...

(start a thread with the name of the song IN it)


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Subject: RE: How to Correct Songs in Mudact Database
From: GUEST,smiler
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 01:55 PM

Prize Pedant

Any person with a modicum of intelligence would know Betsy had made an error and thus ascertain, immediately what she meant.


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Subject: RE: How to Correct Songs in Mudact Database
From: GUEST,Prize Pedant
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 01:31 PM

It would, of course, be preferable if people took care only to input information which was first verified. This would involve engaging brain before typing, using a dictionary, thesaurus and spell checker. What is a "mudact"?


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Subject: RE: How to Correct Songs in Mudact Database
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 01:19 PM

To correct something in the DT database, you must bring it to the attention of Dick and Susan. You must bring it to the attention of Dick and Susan repeatedly. You must bring it to the attention of Dick and Susan repeatedly over a period of several years. You must bring it to the attention of Dick and Susan repeatedly over a period of several years during which you won't even get an acknowledgement. You must bring it to the attention of Dick and Susan repeatedly over a period of several years during which you won't even get an acknowledgement until three to five years have passed. You must bring it to the attention of Dick and Susan repeatedly over a period of several years during which you won't even get an acknowledgement until three to five years have passed and then, maybe, they'll do an update and correct the mistake. You must bring it to the attention of Dick and Susan repeatedly over a period of several years during which you won't even get an acknowledgement until three to five years have passed and then, maybe, they'll do an update and correct the mistake, but maybe not.


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Subject: How to Correct Songs in Mudact Database
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 12:39 PM

I have just looked up one of the Songs I wrote and saw only one version-which horrified me - how can I get it corrected.


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