Is Mudcat better now ?

Subject: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: GUEST,ArOlovien
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 12:45 PM

Is the Mudcat-site (www.mudcat.org) better now, then it was two years ago?

Subject: RE: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 12:46 PM

Site features, yes. Atmosphere, IMO no.

~S~

Subject: RE: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 12:53 PM

I just posted a thread about correcting a Song in the Database - I hope you don't that was a criticism of Mudcat or prompted your Thread - they printed what they recieved - it's not their fault

Subject: RE: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: SINSULL
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 01:24 PM

Yes. The addition of a "below the line" BS section confines most of the inevitable nastiness and silliness for those who choose to participate.

The database grows although not at the rate of the original Mudcat - but that is to be expected. How much new information can you expect to unearth on folk music?

Mudcat loses old and cherished members to death and disillusionment but continues to include the likes of Art Thieme, Jean Ritchie, Kendall Morse and a host of other Folk Statesmen.

Could it be better? Yup. But so could life in general.

Subject: RE: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: Morticia
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 01:30 PM

Hmmm, can't help but get nostalgic for how things were....the Mudcat isn't what it was IMO, but then, I guess I'm not what I was either.

Subject: RE: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 01:46 PM

What's the point of even asking?

You either like it enough here, and stay,

Or ya don't like it enough, and should hit the bricks....

Better? Better get a bucket...

Subject: RE: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: GUEST,Prize Pedant
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 01:47 PM

Has it been ill?

Subject: RE: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 02:02 PM

Other than organizational differences Mudcat is as good as Mudcatters.
Being folksingers, it's genetic that we think the past was better.

As far as I'm concenred, the good old days are still to come.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: Bo Vandenberg
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 02:07 PM

To me it is a significant, original, interesting corner of the WWW.

More people have put their stamp on it and it has some migration from its roots, but a tree with just roots isn't very tall.


I have only the greatest thanks and respect for all the people who run it.


Sigurd

Subject: RE: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: Ed.
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 02:15 PM

LOL, Prize Pedant!

Subject: RE: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 02:26 PM

2 years? how about 4 years?... 6 years?...8 years? why I remember when,,,

it's like the difference between a small town, and medium town, and a big city...there are problems in all....and maybe in about the same proportions, but in a small town, everyone knows almost everyone else, and knows how to avoid the situations and areas ...and people that don't suit them.

But in larger cities, 'problems' are more in number and more visible, even if they are about the same proportion....and since everyone has about the same access to issues in Mudcat, as if they were being done in the city park, you can't easily ignore it when debates turn uncomfortable. People who MUST insult each other should use PMs when possible, but there is something about knowing others are 'watching' when you think of something clever & cutting to hurl at an opponent...*sigh*

You will note that we have perfectly good, regular contributors who NEVER get involved in the acrimonious parts...and others who DO debate the issues but everyone respects. What is their secret? Just attitude and comfort level.

Mudcat is totally amazing in being able to keep on with its basic theme, despite the side noises. PMs...the BS section, the ability to delete the worst problems, and a management team who provides a balance between freedom and 'control' that takes the restraint of a saint!

I sometimes shake my head in frustration, but like my chosen city, I know where to find the GOOD parts and I come back for a reason.....

Subject: RE: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: Ed.
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 02:45 PM

Bill makes a number of good points.

I'd just add that anyone who worries unduly about such a question, needs to turn off their computer, and go outside for a walk. Try the wind and the rain for a while...

Subject: RE: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 03:09 PM

Rick Fielding is gone -- the absolute glue of the interesting discussions on playing music. With his departure went the indepth conversations between Rick, Mooh, Mark Clark, MTed, Don Meixner(sp) -- all guys who knew how to not only respond to the opening question, but add to it as if in conversation. And it's yet to be replaced with anything close. Now it's one line, terse answers that often show a lack of reading either what has preceded it in the thread, or even the content of the initial question.

Lore is not a bottomless well -- most of the lore has been shared and, as the story's once told, it's not as effective the second and third times. There's some potentially great stories in the midst of this group though. I think that they just require some prodding for the telling, and some sign that there's a willing audience.

But other than that the mudcat's pretty much the same. (when Bush loses in November it will truly return to the warm and welcome place it can be).

Subject: RE: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: M.Ted
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 03:20 PM

I think that it is amazing that Mudcat is still here--it is easy to forget that an awful lot of what was once on the web, particularly discussion-thread stuff, simply hasn't been posted to in months or years--it is a lesson in survival that anyone, commercial or not, should play close attention to--

Subject: RE: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 03:30 PM

I never think about wether Mudcat is better or worse. I wing it every time I log on. I've corresponded through threads and PMs with various members for whatever reason and generally speaking am enjoying taking part in whatever capacity.
Go 'Cat.

Subject: RE: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: Cruiser
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 03:32 PM

The music section is still an important source of folk music and lore. It is the best repository on the web for in-depth knowledge on the past and present folk genre.

Musicologically, I have learned immeasurably from this site.

Cruiser

Subject: RE: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: Mooh
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 04:01 PM

All conversation is transient.

I wish there was a way of refusing new topics until the topic starter did a search for related threads, but having said that, this site is far and away better than most in that regard (at least given the volume of utterances here). I often get the impression that folks would rather post than read, but I post little and read tons here every day. Wait until I get my new guitar-bouzouki and guitar, then I won't likely shut up.

Better now? I don't know, but at least we've still got everything that was ever said here. New folks should test the water before they jump in by reading some of our history.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 05:09 PM

"All conversation is transient."

But all the conversations are still here. Rick may have gone, but his wisdom is still right here. And many of the recent queries are able to be answered by linking to old threads, which include answers from Jean Ritchie or Judy Collins and even Bob Dylan, as well as from friends who are no longer with us.
As long as we can still access the early postings, we haven't lost anything. The only difference might be the politeness of some posters but perhaps they're just reflecting society at the moment?
Robyn

Subject: RE: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: CapriUni
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 05:17 PM

Well, it crashes less, I think... Others may have a different memory/opinion, though.

Subject: RE: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: Amos
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 05:26 PM

I greatly miss the wild and humorous thoughts from Spaw, PeterT, Lonesome EJ, JenEllen, Banjo Bonnie, BSeed, and a good handful of others who now post terselyu and scarcely, if at all.

I keep coming back though, because the sparks still fly in Mudcatlandia.


A

Subject: RE: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 07:37 PM

Except for the loss of those who have passed, I'd say it's no better and no worse. A little different, maybe, but not much. Except for the great new site features. Definite improvement there.

Subject: RE: Origins: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 07:46 PM

Different yes. Better?

Sir, Mudcat is like a dog's walking on his hind legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all:)

I personally don't find Mudcat as interesting as I once did.

That said, it is the only game in town if you have certain musical interests. That's why I keep coming back regularly though I rarely post.

Russ (perennial guest)

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: mooman
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 09:03 PM

Not better or worse in terms of posts IMO, just going through a period of evolution. I don't see why we shouldn't have future "great" threads. A bit too much needless personal nastiness here and there from people with big egos and low self-esteem but we've had that in the past too. Also a lot of really interesting new posters. And, as time goes on, a lot of us are getting to meet in person which is brilliant.

In terms of feature, getting better all the time. Keep up the good work Max and thank you very much for all you've done. You may never know of all the lasting friendships you've kindled here.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: Big Mick
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 09:17 PM

Better? Good old days? Those are such relative terms that I don't know how one would answer that. The thing that always made The Mudcat unique was the cast of characters. That cast has changed. I have been here longer than all but a handful of 'Catters, yet I remember when I came how they talked about how good it used to be. And that was only a couple of years since it began. Then came the Spancil Hill thread, the Why We Sing thread, discussions about Vietnam and The Troubles, the Mudcat Bar threads, Spaw's illness, and on and on. Rick Fielding came, and the music playing threads went through the roof. So the good old days of before were replaced with a new crop of good old days. Will we ever have another Spancil Hill thread? I don't know. But there are good old days to come, of that I am sure.

Mick

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: GUEST,John O'Lennaine
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 10:25 PM

First let me say I agree with what Jerry Rasmussen, Bill D and Little Robyn said.

Interesting you should ask about two years ago.

Up until about two years ago I came here regularly (in another incarnation), and then left to persue an addiction to family history research.
(When you're seriously in the grip of genealogy it sucks all your cybertime and leaves you wasted at the keyboard aching for more.)

When I finally got clean the first thing I did was come here.
Yes it's very different, and I have to admit I have been shocked and disappointed by some of the personal attacks I have witnessed. There were always heated discussions but usually a lot more civilized than some of them are now. I refer here to members as well as guests. I think I agree with Little Robyn that this is probably a sign of the times.

I also miss comments by Catspaw and Lonesome EJ among others, but these things aside I think the Mudcat is as healthy now as I have known it to be and I bow with great reverence to Max, Joe and whoever else keeps it going. I stand in awe of what they do.

I also think the good old days are just around the corner.

John

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 11:18 PM

Please firgive me, GUEST, ArOlvien, since I am part of the recent riff raff and in no way know of or represent the good old days of Mudcat but...

...ahhhhh, this joint rocks!

Excuse me, if you will, wise cat of old, but like in Oliver Goldsmith's poem "The Deserted Villiage", things do change.... sniff...

Yeah, I wasn't part of the Catbox back *then* but have enjoyed it emensely since tunneling in here about the time you probably quit coming thru the front door...

What I have found is a lot of folks who know lots o' stuff about lots o' stuff. What more could anyone ask for? Doesn't matter the subject. If you need a few answers, you can get 'um. If you wanta mess wid some folks there's plenty o' 'um to mess back atcha...

If ya need lyrics 'er advice about yer danged new tusxq saddle breaking strings, it's here...

Okay, I'd rather there be a few more blues folks but, hey, nuthin' is perfect so, my friend, if yer thinkin' of coming back and doing some serious hangin', I think if you can get beyond the good old days you might find some good new days...

Jus a newbie opinion of course...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 11:25 PM

You were too here then, Bobert. It's almost two years ago exactly that I first hitched my toboggan to Mr. the Sailor and hit the road for parts unknown. I know you were in the Mudcat for at least a little while when I still lived in Shepherdstown.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jul 04 - 11:41 PM

Okay, CarolC, I gonna have to trust you on this one since in my world "time flies when yer having fun" and, unlike you, I didn't hook up with J the S so sometimes I ain't too sure jus' how long I'z been scratchin' in this box....

BTW, I am totally bummed out! My song, "Buttermilk Blues" was *NOT* chosen my Mountain Stage to be one of their 20 finalist songs. Yeah, they want me to send 'um another $90 to go over there and participate in the "live rounds". Heck wid 'um... I ain't too sure that none of 'um have ever heared Delta blues so Iz thinkin' that would be just a wast of $90 and a weekend better spent doing somethin' else...

...however, since the story is that you and J the S hooked up there (sniff...) the contest still has a special place (sniff...) in my (sniff...) heart...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 12:03 AM

No Bobert we never made it to the song contest. We decided we had other things to do instead ;-)















(Like going to a guitar gathering in New York City. You thought I was going to say something else, didn't you?)

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 03:46 AM

Since Max had to move the operation to his house, service has been more unreliable, understandably. However, there have been improvements in the usabilty of the site.
Losing Rick has been a shock I don't think we've recovered from yet. However, we've gained jOhn from Hull, a national treasure.
I never understand the muso's technical tips threads but I read them with fascination and admiration!
I miss the inventive humour that seems to have degenerated into name calling. I no longer read religion or politics threads that seem to go rounnd in circles ("'Tis" "'Tisn't" "'Tis").
I enjoy the travels and meetings of other 'catters vicariously, saving on fares.
I post less, so that's one improvement.
Still the best place for serious friendly advice and help about things folkie and bluesy.
Still possible to ignore the trolls and flamers.

RtS
('Catter since 1998)

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 04:16 AM

I too am a relative newcomer, but Spaw was posting regularly when I first found Mudcatdom, and I miss his contributions, I always say that he's the Mudcatter I'd most like to meet. The invention of the BS section seems to have 'let loose the dogs of war' and the BS flies thicker and faster than ever. I must admit that the majority of my contributions are below the line, but that's because my musical knowledge is limited, but I do read the erudite bits too.
There are too many 'copycat' threads, and an over abundance of vanity and egomania, but like the curate's egg, it is good in parts. Indeed some parts are excellent!
Giok

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 06:34 AM

I still always tell people that it is the single best source on the web for information about folk song. That works for me.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: harvey andrews
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 08:33 AM

It's missing Rick. He knew how to start a debate and avoid an arguement.He was curious about everything and wanted to know, but he also listened.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 09:26 AM

that it was a month ago?

YES!

My laptop went away for upgrading a month ago & crashed at the same time. Now that it's back, I'm using Mozilla instead of Netscape & it's sooo much easier (apart from re-creating my address book & a few other little things).

but I do miss some of the names mentioned.

sandra

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: GUEST,Jaze
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 10:29 AM

Perhaps as someone said many of the musical/song topics have been covered very thoroughly. I've been coming here for about 4 years. Is it different? Yeah,somewhat. The cast does change. But the wealth of knowlege one can obtain here is still here. I've learned so much here about artists I'd never heard of before-same with songs. I miss some people who no longer post. I guess it's kind of cyclical. But there's so many threads and topics I haven't even found yet! There's the true treasure.

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: bbc
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 11:14 AM

There are some things on Mudcat that I consistently appreciate: learning about new performers or music to investigate, hearing the perspectives of others on world issues (whether I agree or not), making friends either virtually or 3D.

best,

bbc

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: M.Ted
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 04:23 PM

That's it, Harvey--missing Rick. Without him, there are a lot of discussions that never get started--He didn't necessarily post a lot, but what he posted nearly always brought other things out, and got things moving--

Subject: RE: Is Mudcat better now ?
From: GUEST,Cookieless Norton1
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 02:13 PM

About the same -