BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: Bagpuss
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 11:04 AM

Alex - I think guest was writing with his/her tongue firmly lodged in his/her cheek....

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: Alex.S
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 11:02 AM

Guest, I don't know what country you're in, but in America waiters are not paid a living wage. Tipping for decent service is a social requirement like wearing pants in public. Essentially, you're paying the waiter for a service because the restaurant's prices do not cover it.
   As for waiters being addicts, I can say that about half the people I know have worked as waiters at some point in their lives, and none are addicts. Even if they were, it wouldn't matter -- when someone performs a service for me, I pay him- you can't use the possibility that someone might misuse his money as an excuse to rip him off!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: InOBU
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 10:30 AM

Handle them? Well, I shake hands with them ... means a lot to them, Bobby from my song Bivouac of the Forgotten said so to me the other day,, better than the way the cops often handle them, rubber gloves as they give them the bums rush... well, here is another way I see them... many many of them...

The Bivouac of the Forgotten (words Lorcan Otway all rights resved. tune trad. Andrew Larmie)


Oh, Gunny is there a tent for me,
in the bivouac of the forgotten?
For I've just returned from the desert sands,
Fighting for Halliburton

No, You can share this grate with me,
and a bottle too cheap to mention
For the cost of the war that we fought
Was deducted from our pension

Oh, Gunny, all those things we've done,
will haunt my darkest dreams
And now I've lost all I had to loose
Is this what M.I.A. means?

There's Bobby here, who in Viet Nam
Had a silver star pinned on him
And Sparrow fought in Panama
And the first Gulf War brought us Big Jim

Where are the folks, who called for war
When we are cold and broken
They're urging young folks to go and die
Or return and be forgotten.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 07:03 AM

I don't tip in restaurants. I know for a fact some waiters are addicts and might spend the money on drugs or alcohol. And some of them even wear better shoes than me! I offered one a sandwich once as i didn't trust him to spend the money wisely and he gave me the dirtiest look...

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: mooman
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 06:57 AM

If they look genuine to me I'll usually give them something. But where I live there are also highly organized gangs of "beggars" but you usually get to recognise their modus operandi and I can usually recognise an addict too. So an individual "on-the-spot" judgement for me like some other posters.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 05:26 AM

I don't give money to beggars at all. A shake of the head and a 'sorry mate' will acknowledge them, which can be more comforting than a needle of smack. It shows that although I won't give, I don't ignore them, they are not invisible. We recycle clothes to various charities and I have bought food for some. I was driving into McDonalds at the time and he panhandled me in the queue. I said I wouldn't give him money but I would give him food, and he was quite happy with that. I asked him what he wanted, he asked for a single burger and when I gave it to him, he took it round the corner and shared it with his friend. I went back and bought them another burger each. They really were hungry!

I particularly don't form eye contact with those who haul children or animals around with them. As far as I'm concerned, it's a form of child abuse or child prostitution and animal cruelty. There is one woman who regularly begs near our home. I saw her in Knightsbridge once, in one of the more expensive shops, laying down cash for a leather bag that I later found cost £250. The following week, she was back at her pitch, with a baby (whom I've only ever seen limp, floppy and comatose), with the new £250 leather bag over her shoulder. Go figure.

Another incident proved just how kind some people can be. Sitting on a tube train, a woman in quite smart, clean muslim dress came round with a piece of card, declaring that she was Romainian, homeless and penniless, didn't speak English and could we spare some money for her. In the same carriage were the usual mix of city workers, shoppers and a tramp. The woman showed her card to the tramp who, understandably got a bit upset. He berated her for asking him for money, saying she was better dressed than he was (which was true) and that he didn't even have socks for his feet! At that, one of the city gents took a spare pair out of his briefcase and said, 'here, have these, they're clean, I keep them for when I go to the gym!'

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jul 04 - 04:21 AM

I'll buy the big issue and drop coins in a hat for anyone entertaining - even if it is not strictly 'busking'. I will rarely give to outright beggars but some have caught my imagination! The guy in London who looked so much like George Best looked realy confused when I gave him a couple of quid and told him to put it towards a new liver. I like the honesty of the one in Chicago who asked for a contribution to the Jack Daniels fund:-) And the young man in Weymouth went away very happy for the donation of a pair of good winter gloves.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: Marion
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 11:41 PM

Hi Rapaire. I never thought that you didn't care - I thought that you were just being overly practical, i.e. thinking that the only thing that mattered was giving or not giving money or food. And I don't mean to say that busking is like begging, I only mentioned my own experiences to illustrate my point: that acknowledging somebody's presence is a small gift that won't do them harm and might do them good, so why not acknowledge them?

I remember once the director of a shelter/soup kitchen came to address our student group. When somebody asked him about responding to panhandlers, his two main points were: 1. Don't give money - it almost certainly would be feeding an addiction instead of a stomach, and 2. Look at the guy and say, "No, sorry", because it hurts to be ignored.

Of course, that's still one guy's opinion and not gospel, but I figured that he knew a lot more about the issue than I did, and I believed him.

Marion

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: Amergin
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 11:27 PM

I buy the one of the local papers that supports homeless groups....

i also do give change or depending how generous i am feeling a dollar or so....

the ones i really like are the well dressed kids asking for change for some fries or some such stupid thing i just laugh at them

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 11:12 PM

When I'm in DC, say, I'll avoid eye contact. It's not that I don't see them, and I don't always ignore them. To smile at someone costs nothing. But the utter sameness!

Here at home, you bet I smile at 'em and even talk with them if they're "regulars." But we get LOTS of transients here (two interstates meet, there is a large railyard, and we're on the way to Yellowstone and other places.

Last year a transient was cooking a meal over a campfire and managed to burn 2,500 acres. This year a transient was arrested for the murder of his traveling buddy; within the last couple of weeks another has been found murdered. We've had to call the police twice already for homeless men staggering drunk around the library, another was laying in the grass drinking (eventually they are referred to social service agencies like the shelter, but many simply move on).

It saddens me. All too recently *I* was out of a job, and my youngest brother -- "laid off" last September -- still isn't working. Do not think for a moment that I don't care.

Busking is different -- you're freely giving something in exchange for money, and in my book that's not begging.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: Marion
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 10:44 PM

Subway (sandwich chain restaurant) used to have cards that you put a stamp on every time you buy a sandwich, then when full it was good for a free sandwich. I used to like to give these cards to panhandlers when they were filled up, but they changed it so you have to buy a drink. Does anyone know of any other common restaurants that have a buy-X-get-one-genuinely-free card? I knew of other people who did the same thing with Subway cards, and I wonder if they changed their policy precisely because too many people were doing that and they didn't like having bums in their stores.

If somebody is asking specifically for bus money or food money, I'll offer a bus token or to share food I'm carrying - but I don't believe that giving money is really helping, as too many homeless people are too addicted or too mentally ill to use the money to their benefit.

I've got to disagree with what Rapaire said, though, about eye contact. I think it's the least we can do to be courteous - to look somebody in the eye as an equal, and give a verbal response to a verbal question. It seems cruel to me to ignore somebody who's already on the fringe of society - all these little insults contribute to their feelings of alienation. Also, when I'm busking and am tired or having an unlucky day, it lifts my spirits to have somebody acknowledge me with a smile or wave or hello. I expect that panhandlers feel the same way.

You know those gift cards you can get at grocery stores, that are charged with a certain amount of money by the cashier? In Portland I saw a panhandler trying to sell a $50 card for $25. I actually hoped that the card was stolen or depleted and he was trying to scam somebody who didn't understand how the cards worked. Because the alternative was too depressing: that some very generous person wanted to give him $50 worth of food but he'd rather have $25 worth of drugs.

Marion

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: Little Brother
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 10:07 PM

I give 'em a buck.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 09:58 PM

Wow,

I agree with Martin and LH! Yee Gods!

I volunteer both time and money at the Health Care Center for the Homeless, here in Orlando. I usually give people who ask for $$ one of their cards with my name written on it. The HCCH knows about the cards and knows to make sure the person who presents one is afforded as much help as possible. Of course ANYONE who walks through the door gets the same treatment, but you'd be surprised how many men think they're getting special treatment which just might cause them to actually visit the place.

A folk group I used to play with used to do regular dinner concerts for the local men's shelter. We would enter through the back door into the kitchen. One time I came in a bit later than the rest of the group, carrying my ratty music bag and washtub bass. I was stopped at the door and told to go around the front and wait with the rest of the men for dinner. It took a while before I could convince the person (who was new) that I was with the band. They'd never heard of a washtub bass.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 09:49 PM

We donate food and stuff (including money) to St. Vincent de Paul, to the local homeless shelter, to the local food bank, to several regional organizations. I'm talking new stuff, food and things we bought to donate. So far this year we've given over USD 500.00 worth of stuff.

The organizations we give to give the stuff away to those who in need, without strings on it except need. (The local SVdP Society helps Catholics, Mormons, Baptists -- it's actually an arm of the local Interfaith Council).

As for panhandlers and beggars, sorry. I'm sorry for their plight, but I'll give to those I know rather than those I don't know.

I avoid them by "not seeing them", by no eye contact.

As the Rabbi said, in my own neighborhood -- well, that's different.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 09:37 PM

Well, we certainly agree on this one, Martin.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: Once Famous
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 08:44 PM

It is purely a judgement call for me by instinct and intuition.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 08:40 PM

The perfectly able-bodied kids who hang around outside the local 7-11 and mutter "Spare change? Hey, mister, you got any spare change?" I generally either ignore and keep going, or respond to with, "Kid, there is no such thing as spare change!" and again, keep going.

Gut instinct more than anything, I guess. Not being a person of unlimited means, I prefer to call my shots, and it depends a lot on my immediate impression of the person. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. If no, I just smile, say "Sorry," and keep moving.

It's always a wrench, because there are a lot of really needy, unemployed, homeless people around. If the person looks like they are for real, I say something like, "Sorry I don't have any money to spare, but if you're hungry, they have feeding programs at Central Lutheran Church on 11th and Olive, or the Pilgrim Congregational Church across from the QFC. No questions asked, and they won't make you listen to a sermon." Sometimes I get cussed at, but lots of times they thank me and head toward one church or the other.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 08:06 PM

It depends on where the locale is. If it is in an urban area I am hesitant to reach for my wallet, because the panhandler might have a partner lurking nearby, and it might be a scheme to either pickpocket or mug me. If I am in my own neighborhood, where I recognize who belongs here and who does not, then I will contribute. SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 08:02 PM

I would rather give to a charity that helps the homeless than to give to beggars. In London there are too many who are milking the system and it is difficult to differentiate between the genuine and the con merchants.

I will buy the Big Issue magazine occasionally from the street sellers - at least they're doing something to help themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 07:57 PM

I can't wait for Clinton Hammond to post on this one... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 07:49 PM

No particular rule or method. I deal with each situation on its own merits and go by that "small voice within" that is written of in some texts here and there.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 06:34 PM

I always remember a lad in a seriously uncrumpled clean mac button-hole me and Mutton Chops (lapsed 'catter) with tales of sleeping rough. I watched as Mutton Chops dug into his pocket and dumped all the coins he had in the guy's hand. He's like that. I dug into my recesses and found a song out of it. About cardboard city. I give that to the guy - freely. He looked to have more work than I did at the time.

if curious, the song is on surf to "songs" > Ron Haywards Blues

No I never give to beggars, they can earn as much as me on a good pitch and they don't pay taxes (and may get dole). OK I'm cheap - I have to be I ain't got work much these days.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 06:30 PM

Clint - cut out the middle man and send the money straight to a Columbian drug baron.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 03:45 PM

If you give to those who ask, you've done the right thing. If they spend it stupidly, that's their problem; it's between them and their conscience or their god, but you have behaved correctly.

I will admit I once turned down a young man who was better and more fashionably dressed than i was.

clint

Subject: BS: How do you handle panhandlers/beggars ?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jul 04 - 02:48 PM

I was suprised by a beggar this morning. I'd just lifted my child out of the car near a busy street when he asked me for spare change. In other situations I might have slipped him a dollar or two but this time I didn't.

Do you give money every time you're asked or do you have "rules" as to when you will or won't give to a panhandler ? Do you ever concern yourself as to what the money will be used for ?