Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 02 Aug 04 - 07:29 AM

Hi Guestfolkfan,

I presume from your postings here that you are the person(or one of the team) behind this programme. If so, please accept my heartiest congratulations. It was certainly the best documentary piece on folk culture I've ever seen on TV. I watched it first time around on BBC4, and have re-watched it on video on numerous occasions since. Everybody I've showed it to has agreed with my estimate of it. We all look forward eagerly to your next production.

In one of your postings, you said: "I would dearly love to make a film that addresses these symptoms of our strangely alienated English culture."   If that project ever gets off the ground, you might find this article of some interest:

http://www.mustrad.org.uk/articles/england.htm

In it, I tried to address some of the problems which you, and other contributors to this thread are concerned about.

Keep up the good work!


Wassail!

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Video is Here]
From: Easy Rider
Date: 01 Aug 04 - 10:15 AM

I have it, an NTSC (American) version VHS copy of the Martin Carthy documentary (Thanx, Nick). I've watched a little of it, and it looks GREAT!

If you want a copy, send me an email, and I'll tell you where to send the $5.00 I need, to cover costs.

Thanx,
Easy Rider

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Dave Masterson
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 09:35 AM

A great programme - shame you missed it Bob. Looking to this week - the late great Viv Stanshall - can't wait!

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: synbyn
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 07:17 PM

yes bluenose- i did miss it & am kicking myself! Any news on a repeat welcome...good series

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: GUEST,Chris
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 07:38 AM

Thanx to the BBC for this programme.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 04:51 AM

Nice to know the contributing photographers weren't paid, presumably everybody else gave their services gratis too.

I did enjoy the programme but do question this matter of non-payment.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: GUEST,folkfan
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 07:01 PM

Er that is Ian Campbell Folk Group

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: GUEST,folkfan
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 06:35 PM

Yes Dave S

the clips came from Phillip Donellan's "The Other Music" and there is one complete tape still in existence.

No offence to the great Donellan, and I speak as a fellow unreconstructed Marxist, 'TOM' is a very direct piece of polemic that may not sit easily with todays audience without sympathetically placing it in an historical context.

Phillip also made the series "The Good Old Way" which featured the Watersons and Martin and some clips were taken from these for the programme.

No one has yet asked about "Hullabaloo" "Degrees of Folk" "The Julie Felix Show" or "Travelling for Shopping".

Of all the archive I was most excited by the very early Martin in "Hullabaloo". Brief sequences of "Queen of Hearts" and "Lowlands" appear in the show but there is much else of great wonder including "Duncan and Brady" with the late and very great Rory McEwan. The early Dave Swarbrick bit with E.C.F.G was also from Hullabaloo a veritable treasure trove now owned by Canal Plus.

Love
G

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 05:51 PM

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 04:16 PM

I think that the clips of Martin singing "William Taylor" plus his bit with the Watersons came from a BBC programme filmed in Nottingham, prod Phillip Donellan, called "The Other Music" c 1981
This would surely be worth showing again since apart from the aforementioned it also contained Ewan MacColl, Bert Lloyd, John Kirkpatrick, Jim Eldon, Roy Harris etc.etc.
Is this still available as it must be quite an valuable documentary especially to show to today's younger folkies.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Selchie - (RH)
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 12:59 PM

Folk ~ 'Finger in the Ear' & 'Morris Dancing' jibes will continue. Folkfan 'would love to make a film on it' a great idea.

That would be better than trusting any national media to do it. However, beware, participation by either folkies or morris dancers in good faith may still be mercilessly edited for the sake of further ridicule.

M

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Micca
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 11:45 AM

I have this in a DVD format but (thanks BBC ) it chopped the last song and titles off the end because the timeing was out.. any one interested PM me

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: GUEST,Nerd
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 03:42 AM

The DVD of Travelling for a Living comes with the Watersons box set released by Topic. Not sure if it's available separately. It also is available in NTSC VHS format (I got one from Martin a couple years ago).

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 07:52 PM

There was a great line from Martin where he said something like the only way to stop folk music happening was to prevent its performance anywhere. He made the analogy of folk being a glass which you could move somewhere, but not change, not alter or reform and you could not use it. It was a very good and balanced programme although, as has been noted elsewhere, the sly comments in the press about fingers in ears and morris dancers were a bit offputting.

It was good to see pics of Swarb when he was young....

Maybe he should be the subject of another programme......before it really is too late?

LTS

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Compton
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 07:33 PM

Didn't the old feller do a bit in "Larkrise to Candleford" at the National?? with everybody else who counted!

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 06:54 PM

Just to be even more pedantic, that Watersons film by Derrick Knight is called Travelling for a Living. I know it be be available in both PAL and NTSC formats and I believe it's going to be (if it isn't already) out on DVD.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: 8_Pints
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 06:52 PM

I managed to tape the entire thing last night (using PAL VHS format) and agree this was a fascinating and entertaining piece.

The most important message that came across for me was Martin's assertion that "the singing should be about us, not - me, me, me!"

His humility is the essential attribute of any traditional singer IMHO.

Now if only I knew how to play it back into my PC and create a CD 'back-up' I would be ecstatic!

Bob vG

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 04:24 PM

Oops!

pedantic FatB is absolutely right
Wesker wrote the thing.

It was "Chips" that Brakn saw however.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: GUEST,folkfan
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 04:16 PM

The Sam Larner clip was from "The Singer and the Song" made by Scan Films for the BBC and I have been agitating for BBC 4 to broadcast this and other archive folk material. Maybe an evening of vintage folk programming including a showing of Derrick Knight's often pillaged "Travelling for a Song" in its entirity?

The wonderful Elizabeth Cotten footage is available from
Stephan Grossman's Guitar Workshop.

Re. the folk as joke reviews: about two thirds of otherwise friendly pieces both recent and at the time of original transmission saw fit to comment about fingers in ears and/or morris dancing.

Re. Alinson's uncredited contribution. I've talked with Jim since earlier postings. I did at least clear her historic Dylan/Martin photo for which she (like every other photographic contributor) demanded no payment . She should at least have received proper credit. All I can plead in mitigation is multiple, simultaneous pressure and an impossible budget. Sorry.

The thing about the stills from "Chips" is the copyright is with the BBC not me otherwise I'd post 'em to all.

Love Greg

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: fat B****rd
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 03:55 PM

Hey, folkfan. Just to be pedantic it was Arnold Wesker who wrote Chips With Everything. Anyhow, great Carthy programme. ATB from the Fb.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: GUEST,judetheshepherd
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 02:19 PM

Quite agree with all the comments on the Radio Times review - Carthy spends much of the documentary bemoaning our lack of a real sense of English identity and then some eejit reviewer makes a dumb joke about morris dancers. Also, the old finger in the ear nonsense was trotted out again - wonder when said reviewer will take their head out of another part of their anatomy long enough to realize that in most forms of music where vocal harmonies are improvised, singers WILL have to close off one ear?

Never mind - isn't it nice when you see a profile of a hero who actually lives up to their reputation?

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Chris Amos
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 02:08 PM

I had no idea that there was any film of Sam Larner in existance, does anyone know where this came from? is it part of a programme that feachers Sam in some length, if so I think that we should petition the beeb to show it, same for the magical shots of Elizabeth Cotton, played a right hand guitar "upside down" left handed, like to see some more of her. Magical.

Chris

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Jim McLean
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 12:36 PM

Hi folkfan, thanks for your comments. It's ironic that Alison's pics are all copyright too!

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: GUEST,folkfan
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 11:01 AM

The play was Rattigan's "Chips with Everything" a piece about National Servicemen in the 50's. Quite right, Martin and Dave were in it singing in full battle dress. Didn't see the play but I've got some great BBC still pics (copyrighted I'm afraid).

Best

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Brakn
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 09:19 AM

The first time I saw Martin Carthy was early 1969. I'd wagged the day off school and was round a friend's house just wasting time watching tele. There was a play on, possibly for schools, about a load of squaddies who were trying to show their officers that they had their own culture. (I think!) They put on a concert and invited the officers to attend. Martin Carthy and Dave Swarbrick were part of the concert. It was probably a famous play. Does anyone iknow what it's called?

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Willa
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 08:14 AM

Folkien :
'it may be a good idea to give some feedback on the BBC4 website to encourage them to keep up the good work' - I agree.Hope people will do just that.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 07:44 AM

That's good news, folkfan. If you get it off the ground I suggest you take a look at the Demon Barber Roadshow and Morris Offspring, two skilled and exciting ensembles of young dancers and musicians who are carrying the tradition forward.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: GUEST,folkfan
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 07:30 AM

Er....... that is 'harrowing'.

Most importantly, I forgot tosay that although the positive crits. of the Carthy film in British papers were most welcome I too find the incessant ly negative stereotyping of Morris dancing ignorant and ultimately offensive.

I would dearly love to make a film that addresses these symptoms of our strangely alienated English culture.

Best to all

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: GUEST,Folkfan
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 07:15 AM

Sorry Jim,

the Carthy film was the first music doc to be made for the BBC 4 series and the then existing guidelines for end credits were ridiculous (ie. 20 secs max). Alison (and some other important contributors) should of course been credited but were not. Apologies apolgies apologies.
The broken guitar on the armchair is the Gibson featured in the early photo montage of Martin.
It is the Fylde (in Martin's dulcimer tuning, all Cs and Gs I believe) on the splendid Dominion of the Sword.
Martin's acting career has been described accurately by this thread. He appeared briefly as a lift attendant in a British thriller called "Stranger on a Train". I tried very hard to obtain this clip but failed. He tells a very funny story of multiple takes of his one line scene. They had changed the name of the character Martin was addressing without bothering to tell him.....
The 'Battle of Waterloo' was a BBC Pebble Mill live drama event and Martin says he found his identification with the role so harowing that he would not act again.
Thanks for the kind comments fellow fans.....

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Folkien
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 06:46 AM

I saw the programme when it was first shown on BBC4 and recorded it so I've seen it dozens of times, but still watched it again last night. I'm a bit of a Martin Carthy fan :) The review of the programme in the radio times was very good, but the reviewer still couldn't resist a dig at morris dancing *sigh*.

I believe there is a documentary to be shown later in the year on BBC4 about the Coppers. Can't wait for that. BBC4 are doing folk music proud at the moment, so it may be a good idea to give some feedback on the BBC4 website to encourage them to keep up the good work.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:44 AM

The BBC should do more programmes like this, it was excellent.

eric

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: s6k
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:37 AM

i wasnt sure if to watch it or not... but i watched it, and was hooked... it was one of the best music programmes ive seen

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Jim McLean
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:20 AM

My wife, Alison Chapman, took many of the photo's of Martin in the Troubadour including the one with Bob Dylan. Our video recording ran out at the credits and I wonder if anyone recorded the show and noticed if she was credited atall? A great show.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: fat B****rd
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:18 AM

Great programme(again)even to a rock'n'roller like me.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 08:07 PM

So glad I've seen it at last. Yes, an extraordinary demonstration of just how much he has pared down his performance.

I think is was the Fylde on Dominion of the Sword.

Time stood still for me when he walked down those Troubadour steps but it was the sequences in St Paul's Crypt that struck me most. Such a true person and what a great man. There, Richard Bridge, I've agreed with you!

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 07:54 PM

I just watched it, it was really nice.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 07:47 PM

Truly excellent and fascinating.

I'm almost sure that I saw a Hagstrom H-22 sitting on an armchair in several shots, and was that his big Fylde experimental he was playing on the song (I lost the title) from the 1648 broadsheet?

And I'd say a lot of the posters to the "performer" thread need to listen to what he had to say about performance.

What a great man!

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 06:36 PM

REFRESH, its on now.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 03:40 PM

Thanks Ed and Dave, I just realised its on "normal telly", I don't have a TV aerial, but have a huge FM radio aerial, I'll plug that into my video.
I've had Digital TV for about 4 years, still hav'ent figured out how to record it, I'm crap with new technology!

thanks again.john

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Ed.
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 03:30 PM

Thinking about it, you don't have to set the TV to AV1 to record, that's just to watch it. If your system is anything like mine, having the correct channel on the VCR is the important thing.

Try recording something, whilst you (slowly) change the channel on recorder. That should alert you to the right one (I hope)

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 03:28 PM

As its on the 'ordinary' channels, there shouldn't be a problem. Taping 'freeview' programmes is usually more complicated because few video recorders have a freeview tuner built into them yet. You may find that you can ask the video to record whats on the one of the external connectors and persuade your freeview decoder to send its output there - that's how our setup works.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Ed.
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 03:23 PM

John, with the system here (NTL) you have to set the video to channel 6, and have the TV on AV1 - Don't know if that helps...

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 03:18 PM

Anyone know how to tape digital programmes?
I would likr to tape this programme, but cant figure out how to, i've tried to tape it before, but ended up with a blank tape [I did press record!]
My Digital machine is a Pace DSL4000 Broadband , and my video is a SONY SLV-700.
cheers.john

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Ed.
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 03:04 PM

Dave,

To quote from the book 'Martin Carthy: A Guitar in Folk Music:'

"After leaving school, I spent 18 months working in theatre backstage, and doing walk-on parts, preparatory to my inevivitable elevation to West-End stardom. Inexplicably, this failed to materialise, and I signed off from my first and last period on the dole after six weeks and did a succession of odd jobs."

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 02:38 PM

"originally an actor"

He was involved in the Open Air Theatre in Regent's Park, I think as an ASM, and toured for a while with the company. I seem to remember he did some walk-on parts as well...it's a hell of a long time ago!

Then Steeleye Span were in Corunna! at the Royal Court in about 1971 (oops, I just typed 1871) it wasn't that long ago!

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Selchie - (RH)
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 02:22 PM

Hi Les

The 'dig' at Morris Dancers was certainly noticed & brought to the attention of the Morris Dance Discussion List just before last weekend by Trefor Owen, Morris Federation President. Prompting much discussion & asking dancers to email the Beeb to complain. Hopefully this was taken up by many against cheap jibes at Folk & Morris once again!

Will look forward to the programme though.

Mairi

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 02:21 PM

Out of interest, does anyone know more about Martin being "originally an actor"?

(There is a clip in the programme where he is a soldier at Waterloo, but he is still appearing as a singer rather than an actor.)

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Abuwood
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 02:02 PM

Thanks for that info - should be home from the Indian by then....

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: LesB
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 02:17 PM

Hi Steve, I'm hoping to record it for myself as well as watch it. I'll lend it to you. No i'm not going to Warwick unfortunatly, it's France with the Argy's the week after, so I need a rest.
Cheers

Les

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on UK TV [Friday 23rd July
From: Schantieman
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 12:49 PM

Hey, Les - if you're not going to Warwick, p'raps you could record it for me? I'll try and set up my machine to do it, but, being over 18 I'm not sure I can program it properly!

Cheers

Steve.