Lyr ADD: The Herring Song

Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: The Herring Song
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 14 Jun 23 - 05:45 PM

Shoals of Herring by Ewan McColl

Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: The Herring Song
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Jun 23 - 03:22 PM

Nice extract, Jon.

We collected 2 very different versions in the little village of Aldbrough on the Yorkshire coast, c1970. One was sung and accumulative with a spoken introduction dialogue between a fisherman and his son, and the other was all recited, non-accumulative, and started 'As I was a walking on Bolliton Sands, I picked up a herring as big as me hand, and what do you think etc. Both versions can be heard on the British Library Sound Archive website.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: Lighter
Date: 13 Jun 23 - 07:37 PM

St. James's Gazette (1885), apparently referring to some "thirty years ago":

"Out in the Black Sea, when the men worked long shifts to lighten the vessels at such places at Kertch Bar, the shanties were roared from early morning to sundown, and a merry fellow who could make up rude jingles all day long was worth half-a-dozen extra hands....An aged captain spoke recently of a renowned shantyman. He said, 'Eh me! that chep was just full o' poetry. He couldn't help hisself....Aw mind once we were busy haulin', and the cook fetched oot a cod and started cleanin' it. Sir! that man...made poetry aboot it for nigh upon five minutes; aboot its eyes, an' its tali, an' how like its face was to the cook's, an' how the skipper wouldn't spare no fresh fish for the forecastle. Amazin' it was!"

Clearly based on the herring song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 11 May 20 - 07:19 PM

This calls to mind, of all people,
the worldly lyricist Cole Porter.


Electric eels, I might add, do it,
Though it shocks them, I know;
Why ask if shad do it?
Waiter!
Bring me shad roe ...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: EBarnacle
Date: 11 May 20 - 05:26 PM

The shad are funning. We have dined on shad roe, pickled the fleshy bits, etc. Several years ago, I mentioned a version similar to Tim Jacques' version, substituting shadfish for herring.

To save people from digging through this thread, here's how I do it, with stage directions for audience participation:

For shad festivals, a cumuulative call and response song. Eric

Adapted from What'll we do with the herring's tail?

What'll we do with the shadfish tail?
Response: What'll we do with the shadfish tail?
Leader: We'll make it into a sloop with sails.

Cho: Shadfish tail--sloop with sails,
And all manner of things.
Leader: Of all the fish that swim in the sea,
The shadfish is the one for me.

Leader: How are ye today, how are ye today,
me hinney-oh.

And what'll we do with the shadfish eyes?
What'll we do with the shadfish eyes?
Bake into puddsings and pies.

Shadfish eyes, puddings and pies,
Shadfish tail, sloop with sails,
and all manner of things.

Shadfish fins, needles and pins
etc, ending with:
Shadfish guts--sailors' buts [boots],
and all manner of things,

Repeating the various parts until you are exhausted.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: maeve
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 09:38 AM

A passing note regarding the request from menderman:

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: GUEST,menderman - PM
Date: 21 Apr 15 - 04:31 AM

Cilla Fisher sings this one- a lovely one!
Whaur Will We Gang (Andy Mitchell)

Menderman found what he/she needed on another request thread on Mudcat, to which I've added the lyrics as sung by Cilla Fisher:
Lyr Req: Whaur Will We Gang (Andrew Mitchell)

Whaur Will We Gang - youtube- as sung by Cilla Fisher

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: GEST
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 09:23 AM

The last post above is mine. ~DUH~

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: GUEST,GEST
Date: 03 Dec 15 - 03:55 PM

Here is a very obscure song worth adding to this thread. I just finished making the page mobile friendly so folks can view it on cell phones and tablets. I'd like to know if anyone has ever worked at the keeler in The Herring Store Song .

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 15 - 09:13 AM

We recorded this from a Kerry Travelelr in London in the 1970s
Jim Carroll

The Herring       (Roud 128)
Rec. from Mikeen McCarthy
                                          
There was an old man who lived in Kenmare,
He used have some herrings and herrings for sale,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
And yet I have more of my song to be sung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.

So what do you think they made of his back1
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.
A fine old man and his name it was Jack,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
Sing herring, sing back, sing man, sing Jack,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
And yet I have more of my song to be sung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.

So what do you think they made of his belly,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
A fine old girl and her name it was Nelly,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
Sing herring, sing belly, sing girl sing Nelly,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
And yet I have more of my song to be sung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.

So what do you think they made of his head,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
The finest sledge that ever cut stones,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
Sing herring, sing head sing sledge, sing bed,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
And yet I have more of my song to be sung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.

So what do you think they made of his teeth,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
The finest chisels that ever cut steel,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
Sing herring, sing teeth, sing teeth, sing steel,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
And yet I have more of my song to be sung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin1

So what do you think they made of his tongue,
Sing avaro lin, sing avero lin,
The finest spring that ever did sprung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
Sing herring, sing tongue, sing spring, sing sprung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
And yet I have more of my song to be sung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.

So what do you think they made of his mouth,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
The finest kettle that ever did spout,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
Sing herring, sing mouth, sing kettle, sing spout,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
And yet I have more of my song to be sung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.

So what do you think they made of his nose,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
The finest hammer that ever broke stones,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
Sing herring, sing nose, sing hammer, sing stones,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
And yet I have more of my song to be sung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.

So what do you think they made of his eyes,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
The finest saucer that ever held spies,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin1
Sing herring, sing eyes, sing saucer, sing spies,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
And yet I have more of my song to be sung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.

So what do you think they made of his bones,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
The finest punches that ever punched stones,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
Sing herring, sing bones1 sing punches, sing stones,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin1
And yet I have more of my song to be sung,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.

So what do you think we made of his tail,
Sing avaro lift, sing avaro lin,
The finest ship that ever sought sail,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
Sing herring, sing tail, sing ship, sing sail,
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin,
And now I have no more of my song to be sung1
Sing avaro lin, sing avaro lin.

This has been claimed by some folklorists to be a corrupt descendant of part of the practice of the sacrificial slaughter of animals, which, in its turn, was said to have replaced the ceremony of appointing a man king for a given period, then killing him and scattering his blood and dismembered parts over the land to ensure a good crop.    The same claim has been made of other songs, such as The Derby Ram, The Mallard and The Wren, though, if this is the case, and there is little evidence to support such claims; they have, as A.L.Lloyd put it, "in the course of the long centuries, lapsed into burlesque".    Such songs have been found all over Britain, Ireland, The United States and Canada, as well as Europe.   In Southern France the victim is the "gentille alouette", or gentle skylark.
More recently "The Herring" was put to far more benign uses.    The cumulative versions of the song were often used as tests of vocal dexterity and memory, "tongue twisters"; for instance, coal miner Jack Elliot of Birtley, County Durham sang;
                                
        Harrin's scales, a ship that sails,
        Herrin's tail, a barrel of ale,
Harrin's belly, a lass caa'ed Nellie,
        Harrin's guts, a pair of byuts (boots),
        Harrin's heid, loaves of breid,
        And aal manner of things.
Of all the fish that live in the sea,
The Harrin' is the one for me.
How are ye the day, how are ye the day,
How are ye the day my hinny O.

The singer who gave it to collector Fred Hamer said that her grandfather used it as a street cry when selling herrings in Buckinghamshire, and in New England, aptly enough in Cape Cod, it was said to have been used as a cradle song by men.
Elsewhere in America and also in a Scots version, the herring is replaced and becomes a pig or sow dying of the measles.

Reference
Journal of The Folk Song Society                 1916
Folk Song In England                                 A L Lloyd
Jack Elliot of Birley                                  LP record
Green Groves                                         Fred Hamer
A Treasury of New England Folklore         B A Botkin.
Miscellanea of The Rymour Club                   Edinburgh 1911 to 1928

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: Megan L
Date: 21 Apr 15 - 05:40 AM

Menderman can't pinpoint those lyrics it might get more attention if you start a new thread about it since this is quite an old thread. I will keep cudgelling this slow brain to find it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: GUEST,menderman
Date: 21 Apr 15 - 04:31 AM

does any one know the words to the song that has the chorus and one of the verses is

Blue whitings in season up there off St Kilda
so we'll rig a deep trawl and all head out west
but as tow after tow has been landed for fish meal
Blue Whiting will go just the same as the rest

'and what will we do when the herring all finished
what will we do when the herrings all gone
what will we do with our Pussers and Trawlers
how will we ever pay off the bank loan

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: EBarnacle
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 11:38 PM

Herring's guts, sailor's boots

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: Dave Hunt
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 10:40 PM

A very long while ago in thai thread Tim Jaques asked

I left out one verse because I couldn't understand Foster's accent no matter how hard I tried. It sounds like:

And what do we do with the old herring's guts,
We'll make them into comic cuts,
Herring's cuts, comic cuts,
And all such things.

Which is quite correct! Comic Cuts was a weekly kids comic in the 1890 -1953 see http://www.bl.uk/popups/ccuts.html

Comic Cuts was also the term used in The Andrew (The Royal Navy) for a seaman's record sheet - as in Cyril Tawney's Chicken on a Raft

Jimmy's (short for Jimmy the One = 1st Lieutenant)laughin' like a drain
Been lookin' at me Comic Cuts again
etc...

Back to the original request - there is a terrific version recorded by the late Johnny Doughty on 'Round Rye Bay for More' (an LP on Topic)

What'll we do with the herrin's head
We'll Make it into loaves of bread
Herrin' head, loaves of bread an' all such things

Of all the fish that's in the sea, the herrin' is the fish for me
Sing wack fa doodle die-doe
Wack fa doodle day.

Then it's cumulative to:

What'll we do with the herrin's guts
We'll make 'em into Comic cuts
Herrin's guts, Comic Cuts,
Herrin's tail, ships that sail
Herrin's back, fishin' smacks
Herrin's belly, jams an' jellies
Herrins fins , needles an' pins
Herrin's eyes , puddin's an' pies
Herrin's head loaves of bread
An' all such things
Of all the fish....etc...

sunshine and smiles
Dave    www.sunshinearts.co.uk

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: Gulliver
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 02:25 PM

Scrump, it was sung by Noel Carroll, who was a regular in O'D's at that time.
He later joined up with Gerry Crilly and (I think) Seán Óg McKenna to form Rakish Paddies.

That was Christmas of the year I met a nice-looking French girl in East Berlin
at the World Youth Festival and she arrived in Dublin unannounced on a visit and managed
to lock herself in the mens' toilets in O'Dwyers, just across the road from O'D's. We were thrown
out of O'Dwyers and went across to O'D's where I heard this song. That would make it 1973.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: Scrump
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 03:15 AM

The Ronnie Drew song that Scrump mentions above is likely similar to the song that you heard in O'Donoghue's

Gulliver, are you sure it wasn't Ronnie singing it on that occasion? What year would it be?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: EBarnacle
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 09:49 PM

Generally, around here, we go with

What'll we do with the Shadfish Tail?
and so forth based upon a version which is similar to Tim Jacques' version.

We generally get runs of shad in the spring, when they come up river to spawn. There is currently a moratorium on Hudson River shad fishing to allow the population to recover. Any shad and shad roe available in the stores is supposed to come from other river stocks.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: DannyC
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 05:10 PM

Gulliver,

The Ronnie Drew song that Scrump mentions above is likely similar to the song that you heard in O'Donoghue's.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: Gulliver
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 02:43 PM

Years ago I heard a song sung in O'Donohues in Dublin that went:

There was an oul' object washed in on the tide
Half a mile long and half a mile wide.

chorus:
With me Johnnie sez she, me bonny, sez she,
One your leg, two your leg, throw your leg over me bonny sez she.

And what do you think we made out of its head...etc.
(goes through all the parts as in some of the songs listed above--the final few verses are unprintable).

Never came across this anywhere else...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: Deckman
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 12:45 PM

And no one seems to have mentioned: "Taddies and Herring."

For me, there is NO better food than pickled herring, raw salmon, and Villi (villia). CHEERS, Bob

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: Scrump
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 11:38 AM

Surprisingly (unless I missed it above) no-one seems to have mentioned the Dubliners' version of this (with Ronnie Drew on lead vocal). It was on their 1968 album Drinkin' & Courtin'.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Herring Song
From: Kevin L Rietmann
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 11:26 AM

I love this song, and here is another short recording of it, Seamus Ennis in 1951 recorded by Alan Lomax. The tune Seamus uses is similiar to Pretty Molly Brallaghan or the jig Maid in the Meadow (which Seamus called the Stone in the Field) or the reel the Green Fields of America. It's also on Topics Voice of the People Vol 14, with another melody - don't know which one is sung usually.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Cuilionn
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 08:57 PM

'Tis grait tae revisit this threid-- Ah sing "Herrin's Hied" wi aa manner o audiences, frae bairnies tae elders, an ev'ryane seems tae love it! Ah lairnit ma vairsion aff Cilla Fisher's "Singing Kettle" recordings (Scottish children's music series) wi additional bits gaitherit alang the way. Ane o ma Scots Gaelic students addit a vairse in whilk the "herrin's teeth" mak a "Christmas wreath." Frichtenin thocht, aye?

Regairdin the vairsion set doon by Baring-Gould, here's a recordin for those whae'd like tae gie it a listen: "Dead Maid's Land: Traditional Songs from Devon & Cornwall from the collection of Sabine Baring-Gould" (WGS 292CD, copyricht 1998 WildGoose Studios, Wherwell, Hampshire, SP11 7JS).

--Cuilionn

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 12:21 PM

does anyone have the lyrics to Ian Campbell's version of theHerring Song - it's similar to those previously posted, but has an extra stanza on the end about "haveing done so well" with me jolly herring.

cheers

finbar

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 07:35 PM

It's Christmas Eve, and the Polish Sisterhood (my wife and her mother) are cooking up a storm in the kitchen. It's great to hear them laugh and enjoy each other's company.

We're having mushroom soup and home-made cheesecake, and I'm cooking up a pork roast to serve with my mother-in-law's applesauce. They sent me out in the storm this afternoon to buy pickled herring, which they say is an essential in a traditional Polish Christmas dinner. Then there's some sort of bread, oplatek, that looks like Catholic communion wafers - we break that and wish blessings on each other.

So, in honor of those herrings, I'd like to refresh this thread.

Blessings to you all!

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: GUEST,NSC
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 02:04 PM

Shields Folk

You are right of course.

I think its a case of familiarity breeds contempt as i sing the sing regularly and never miss out the chorus.

Ah well.

Part of the problem is being exiled from Geordieland. But life is very good here in Tipperary.

thanks for the correction

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 21 Jul 01 - 02:46 PM

I have now added a list of material relating to this song to the  Penguin: The Red Herring  thread.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Shields Folk
Date: 21 Jul 01 - 01:37 PM

GUEST NSC, You missed out "how are you the day me hinny-o" from the end of the chorus of the Tyneside version.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE HARRIN'S HEED (trad Newcastle)
From: GUEST,NSC
Date: 21 Jul 01 - 07:33 AM

What about this Geordie version sung regularly in Newcastle

What'll wi dee wi' the harrin's heed,
We'll meck it inte loaves o' breed,
Harrin's heed, loaves o' breed
And aall manner o' things,
Of aall the fish that's in the sea,
The harrin' is the one for me.

What'll wi dee wi' the harrin's eyes,
Meck them inte mince pies.
Harrin's eyes mince pies,
Harrin's heed, loaves o' breed
And aall manner o' things,
Of aall the fish that's in the sea,
The harrin' is the one for me.

What'll wi dee wi' the harrin's fins,
Meck them inte needles and pins,
Harrin's fins, needles and pins,
Harrin's eyes mince pies,
Harrin's heed, loaves o' breed
And aall manner o' things,
Of aall the fish that's in the sea,
The harrin' is the one for me.

What'll wi dee wi' the harrin's back,
Meck it inte a lad caalled Jack,
Harrin's back, lad caalled Jack,
Harrin's fins, needles and pins,
Harrin's eyes mince pies,
Harrin's heed, loaves o' breed
And aall manner o' things,
Of aall the fish that's in the sea,
The harrin' is the one for me.

What'll wi dee wi' the harrin's belly,
Meck it inte a lass caalled Nelly.
Harrin's belly, lass caalled Nelly,
Harrins back, lad caalled Jack,
Harrin's fins, needles and pins,
Harrin's eyes mince pies,
Harrin's heed, loaves o' breed
And aall manner o' things,
Of aall the fish that's in the sea,
The harrin' is the one for me.

What'll wi dee wi' the harrin's tail,
we'll meck it inte a greet big sail.
Harrin's tail, greet big sail,
Harrin's belly, lass caalled Nelly,
Harrins back, lad caalled Jack,
Harrin's fins, needles and pins,
Harrin's eyes mince pies,
Harrin's heed, loaves o' breed
And aall manner o' things,
Of aall the fish that's in the sea,
The harrin' is the one for me.

A few more HTML line breaks added, and double spacing deleted. --JoeClone, 25-Jun-02.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Hawker
Date: 21 Jul 01 - 05:18 AM

The Baring Gould collected version of this song is similar to those above, but has a sort of chorus which (from vague memory) goes:

Hark! Hark! and see how you do lie
And so do you as well as I
well! well! well and again
And I thinke I made well of my Jolly herring
Amazing how the same song has so many variants, Wonderful stuff!
Lucy

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 08:15 PM

I've just listened to it again and they went further than I thought - Lerwick and Stornoway to mention but a couple of far-flung plaices! Tattie B

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: GeorgeH
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 11:45 AM

Oh, missed this last time . . The "Fishgutters song" Tattie mentions sounds very much as if it, too, is from the Radio Ballad "Singing the Fishing".

G.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: GeorgeH
Date: 19 Jul 01 - 11:43 AM

A few observations . .

1) The Liza Carthy version of the song I know from the Banddogs LP (see recent threads re; Dave Bulmer/CM, Nic Jones and Tony Rose . . I think it's been mentioned in it); I think Chris Coe (of Ryburn 3 Step - at Sidmouth this year - and formerly of Banddogs) still sings it also.

2) The definitive version of Shoals of Herring has to be the one from the Radio Ballad - which, remember, is now available on Topic CD.

3) I have a tape of a radio broadcast of MacColl/Seeger where Ewan boast of the fact that, since he wrote "Shoals of Herring", it has been collected back "from the tradition" a large number of times and in multiple languages. (Sorry, I can't remember the numbers, but Ewan could exagerate such things anyway . . )

4) By the account I have of Sam Larner's claim to have known the song all his life he was trying to "grope" Peggy's knees at the same time . . taking advantage of his wife's failing eyesight . .

G.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 18 Jul 01 - 07:41 PM

And there's also the "Fishgutters' Song" all about the intrepid women who travelled the East Coast ports frae "Peterheid" to "Yermouth Toon" for the sole(groan!) purpose of gutting fish. On a CD by Stravaig. Tattie B

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Brían
Date: 17 Jul 01 - 11:09 PM

I have a transcription of this song as sung by Joe Heaney from the University of Washington. As a caveat, I admit that he may have got his version from Seamus Ennis. Also, I don't know if he assisted the transcription in any way.

In any case, the chorus is offered as:

Abair-a-linn, abair-a-linn

Say it to us, say it to us

Brían.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Orac
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 09:20 AM

The conclusion to "Shoals of Herring" begins "Night and day we're faring" not "Night and day we're daring". Most of the recordings of this song made in the 60's have both the intro and the conclusion. Unfortunately they seem to get omitted these days which is a shame (probably due to ignorance) It is a much better song when sung as it was written.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Alice
Date: 08 Jul 01 - 10:59 AM

Where's Bill Sables? He sang the herring song to us in my kitchen last year, as we all had kippered herring.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Brían
Date: 08 Jul 01 - 07:06 AM

Great work, Malcolm. There is also a similar version with the same refrain in IRISH BALLADS AND SONGS OF THE SEA by James N. Healy. The melody used is BRUACH NA CARRAIGE BAINNE.

Brían.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Garry Gillard
Date: 08 Jul 01 - 06:18 AM

Thanks for the link to Eliza's message, which I hadn't seen, Malcolm.

Corrections made.

Garry

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 12:28 PM

Nearly as printed: I inadvertently added an "r" to the first thugamar.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 12:25 PM

I've just been looking at George Petrie's Complete Collection of Irish Music (ed. C. S. Villiers, 1903) and happened to notice that number #502, We Brought the Summer With Us, carries the following text:

Of all the fish that's in the sea
The herring is king, the herring is king.
Sing thurgamur fein an samhra linn
'Tis we have brought the summer in
The storm is o'er 'tis calm again;
We're safe on shore from the raging main,
Sing thugamar fein an samhra linn,
'Tis we have brought the summer in.

Text transcribed as printed.  It would take very little to mutate the Gaelic phrase (of which the final line is more-or-less a translation) into aber-um-vane and aber-o-ling.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 08 Jun 01 - 01:55 PM

For Eliza's own take on the refrain, see  Eliza C Herring Song chorus

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Garry Gillard
Date: 08 Jun 01 - 11:25 AM

About time I contributed my two cents worth. Here's one cent: the herring song; and here's the other: 70 cents.

:) Garry

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Mudlark
Date: 08 Jun 01 - 01:20 AM

The version that I sing (sounds like a variation of the first herring song in this thread) has a say and respond chorus: Singer 1: Why didn't you tell me so? singer 2: So I did, long ago! Singer 1: Thou lie! singer 2: Thou lie! Singers 1 and 2 together: Well, well everything. Do you think I've done well with my jolly herring.

The guts verse as I know it goes: What have I made of my old herring's guts? Forty bright women and fifty bright sluts. Wantons and women and everything! Do you think I've done well with my jolly herring?

Another verse I like is: What have I made w/my old herring's eyes? Forty jackdaws and fifty magpies. Larks and linnets and everything! Do you think I've done well...etc.

Mudlark

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Jun 01 - 09:49 PM

True.  And Martin: no cricket song, I'm afraid.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Anglo
Date: 07 Jun 01 - 06:05 PM

I think most things have been said already - the Aber o Lane (or whatever) version Eliza sings seems to come from Seamus Ennis. I don't think anyone has mentioned that there's a nice version of it on the Banddoggs album.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 07 Jun 01 - 08:52 AM

The chorus has never been regarded as anything but nonsense, in Ireland.

Regards

p.s. There's a reference to a Chris Foster album called "Sting in the Tail" in an early entry in this thread. Anyone know if it has a song of that title - about cricket?

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Jun 01 - 08:30 AM

Now we know, maybe?

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Jun 01 - 08:08 AM

Whatever Eliza sings, it's Kinsale in the traditional versions of this variant.  The nonsense words may be Irish, and they may not; Eliza herself used to think that they might be Welsh.  Seamus Ennis -from whom Eliza's set may well derive- sang aber-um-vane and aber-o-ling, but he doesn't seems to have expressed an opinion as to the words' derivation or meaning.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: GUEST,DaisyA
Date: 07 Jun 01 - 06:29 AM

Hooray, I know what the ????s are! It's Irish and it is (phonetically) "Sing ebero vain, sing ebero lin" I saw her do it live and she got the audience to join in with the Irish bits, but I can't remember what it means sorry. It's a great song, really hard to sing...

Daisy

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: GUEST,RZangpo2
Date: 07 Jun 01 - 03:01 AM

Kinsale? Surely it should be Kintail - that's what it sounds like to me.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: paddyc
Date: 24 Mar 00 - 12:36 PM

The best Shoals of Herring version definetley has to be by Liam Clancy on "The Wild and Wasteful Ocean" cd.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Abby Sale
Date: 24 Mar 00 - 10:06 AM

Barbara; Significantly slower but not, I think, half. It's a bit weird to pick up - the intro verse is sung by Ewan (it's easy to remember how to spell this if you alway remember to mispronounce it as ee-wan) and his styling of it is very different from Lloyd's at the end, even though they are clearly intended to be the same tune. Even though MacColl wrote it, I far prefer Lloyd's interpretation. So as not to give the song three tunes, I try to sing both first & last a la Lloyd.

I think you have to hear the original to get this. And that difference may be why the last is not usually sung.

BTW, this is a very strong statement for me, personally, as I no qualms about describing MacColl as the world's greatest-ever ballad singer. (With the possible exception, according to Lawless, of Sandy Paton.)

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Barbara
Date: 24 Mar 00 - 01:13 AM

Abby, thanks for the clarification, (I never spell Ewan's name right, either). Tell me, is that the verse I hear sung at one-half speed in some versions?
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: sheila
Date: 23 Mar 00 - 09:57 PM

Abby -
I always did like that last verse - it does finish off the song beautifully.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 23 Mar 00 - 09:51 PM

G'day Herring lovers (loathers?),

Herring seems to be only an exotic import here in Australia - my Scouser friends keep it commercially viable by keeping up the demand.

Abbey Sale: You point about the way Ewan's songs have gone back into the tradition is very good. I guess it shows how well the tradition was respected in their making.

I loved Sam Larner's reaction when Ewan & Peggy diffidently sang the song (crafted from all his tales and speech) back to him for comment. Apparently he replied (~) "Boy ... I've knowed that song all my life!". One could not ask for greater approbation. (Source: recorded talk by Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger on the Folk tradition, played on ABC [Australia], late 1970s.)

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Perhaps Barbabra's hope of a definitive version was not so much the problem as The Fenian's remark "...I've only ever heard two people sing it right with the high's and low's in exactly the right places."

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Abby Sale
Date: 23 Mar 00 - 09:15 PM

Barbara: Shoals of Herring was written by Ewan MacColl and is on his Black and White tape/CD. That should be definitive enough, hey?

isn't entirely true, unfortunately. He changed it from time to time adding/subtracting a verse or so. I once wrote a short paper on it and how the song has acted exactly as if it were a folk song. Interesting as it moved from singer to singer in its early days...Killen, Kelly, etc.

Especially note the verse Lloyd sings in the original presentation, in the radio ballad. It balances & is the same tune as the normally-sung first verse. I like it and add it back in.

Night and day the sea we're daring
Come wind or calm or winter gale
Sweating or cold, growing up, growing old, or dying
As we hunt the bonnie shoals of hering.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: GUEST,Tom Hamilton
Date: 23 Mar 00 - 12:52 PM

Isla St. Clair sings a song about a Herring and the different parts of the fish. It's on a C.D called 'The sea' this is the partner of a another C.D called 'The land' and both are by Isla St. Clair.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Vic in Australia
Date: 11 Nov 98 - 07:50 AM

make that Vic in South Australia.

Hey Alison, thanks for the message. I spent 2 of my more impressionable years (13,14) in Longueville and have loved Sydney ever since.

But if I may returnto my thread: Alan, any luck finding that version of "The Herring Song"? - the urge to find those missing lyrics (nonsense or otherwise) hasn't left me.

btw, anyone got dates for Eliza Carthy in NSW? I know she's at Pt. Fairy & Brunswick Festivals with Martin & Norma and with any luck WOMAD in S.A.

Thanks........Vic

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: alison
Date: 02 Nov 98 - 10:03 AM

Hi Vic,

alan, myself, Murray and Bob Bolton are all in Sydney.

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Bill Cameron
Date: 01 Nov 98 - 10:46 AM

One of my all-time favorite albums, Songs of the Fishing --by Cilla Fisher, of course--contains these herring-specific songs:

Tatties and Herrin'

(Tatties and herrin', tatties and herrin' Your natural food is tatties and herrin')

The Isle of May

(No more herring swim, hard times are come For the bright herrings gone, and inshore life is done)

Caller Herrin'

(Wha'll buy my caller herrin? They're bonnie fish and halesome farin/Buy my caller herrin', New drawn frae the Forth)

Not the least of the record's appeal is that it has all the lyrics on the back cover...try that on a CD.

Bill in semi-sunny Eastern Ontario (my first msg on the Mudcat, which I just stumbled on a couple days ago)

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Vic in Australia
Date: 01 Nov 98 - 07:48 AM

Hey Alan, I'm in Adelaide - whereabouts are you?

I think you're right about the nonsense lines ( a bit like the "whack-fol-do dol lay" in Tim J's version). I'd still like to know what it is she's singing tho'.

Hey Tim, the last fish I caught was a catfish, 25 years ago in the River Murray. Had to pull its hide off with a pair of pliers!

Barbara, Susan - checked out the 25 herring "hits" and no sign of Elizas Herring Song - Tim's got the same basic song, but now I'm hoping Alan can find that other version.

Thanks everyone.......much appreciated.........Vic.

Subject: Lyr Add: SHELVES OF HERRING ^^
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 01 Nov 98 - 03:45 AM

I had to go back a few years in our newsletter, the 3/4 Times, but I found it!

SHELVES OF HERRING

It was a fine and a pleasant day,
In a Safeway store I was faring,
And I walked for miles up and down the aisles,
As I hunted for the shelves of herring.

O the carts were few and the lines were long,
And the people, sure they took some bearing.
There was little kindness and the kids were many,
As I hunted for the shelves of herring.

O I took my catch to a ten-item line,
And at me the clerk she sure was swearing;
For I'd a hundred cans of the silver darlings
That I'd taken from the shelves of herring!

Now for six long months I've been eating fish,
And my house it sure could use an airing!
And now I know, never again I'll go
To hunt for the shelves of herring!

This came to me from John Dwyer, an old Washington State folkie, died a year or so back, who had it from Bruce Baker of Seattle, who had it from the maker, Frederick Schroers of Portland. John said before he sung it that he was glad Ewan, the original maker, wasn't there. I agree. Jon ^^

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 29 Oct 98 - 09:20 PM

G'day,
Somewhere I think I've got a version like Eliza Carthy's sung by someone else. If I can find it I'll see what I can make of it. I think the ??? bits were just nonsense words - make up your own.

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From:
Date: 29 Oct 98 - 08:33 PM

Say, Vic, do you have herring down under? I thought you had more exotic fare, like green mussels and puffer fish.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From:
Date: 29 Oct 98 - 08:28 PM

I have "Shoals of Herring" by the Canadian group Tamarack.

The Boys of Killybegs also mentions herring.

You're all welcome to my share of the herring.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: MMario
Date: 29 Oct 98 - 05:06 PM

Any chance it could be "Sing gather a line?" as in hauling nets or drag lines?

it would at least make a modicum of sense, not that that is necessary MMario

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: RaginPagan
Date: 29 Oct 98 - 04:35 PM

I've had a bit of a listen to the song a have a couple of suggestions as to the "???" bits, neither of which make much sense.

My prefered option is..

"Sing aber all ain, sing aber all in."

I guess this might be "Gather all 'ain, gather all in."

Anyone out there got a fishing or mongering background that might poor some light on to this ?

Subject: Lyr Add: HERRING SONG (from Eliza Carthy)
From: Vic n Australia
Date: 29 Oct 98 - 07:25 AM

Thanks to everyone who has responded to my original request, esp: Tim J., Barbara, Susan, & Ragin.

Here's my idea of the lyric with a "?" for the unknown word (words).

HERRING SONG
Trad. arr. E. Carthy, S. Rose, E. Boyd

There once was a man who came from Kinsale,
Sing ? Sing ?
And he had a herring, a herring for sale.
Sing ? Sing ?

Sing man of Kinsale, sing herring for sale
Sing ? Sing ?
And indeed I have more of my herring to sing
Sing ? Sing ?

So what do you think they made of his head?
Sing ? Sing ?
The finest oven that ever baked bread
Sing ? Sing ?

Sing herring, sing head, sing oven, sing bread.
Sing ? Sing ?
And indeed I have more of my herring to sing.
Sing ? Sing ?

So what do you think they made of his back?
Sing ? Sing ?
A nice little man and his name it was Jack.
Sing ? Sing ?

Sing herring, sing back, sing man, sing Jack.
Sing ? Sing ?
And indeed I have more of my herring to sing.
Sing ? Sing ?

So what do you think they made of his eyes?
Sing ? Sing ?
The finest dishes that ever held pies.
Sing ? Sing ?

Sing herring, sing eyes, sing dishes, sing pies.
Sing ? Sing ?
And indeed I have more of my herring to sing.
Sing ? Sing ?

So what do you think they made of his scales?
Sing ? Sing ?
The finest ships that ever set sail.
Sing ? Sing ?

Sing herring, sing scales, sing ships, sing sail.
Sing ? Sing ?
And indeed I have more of my herring to sing.
Sing ? Sing ?

So what do you think they made of his fins?
Sing ? Sing ?
The finest cases for needles and pins.
Sing ? Sing ?

Sing herring, sing fins, sing needles and pins.
Sing ? Sing ?
And indeed I have more of my herring to sing.
Sing ? Sing ?

So what do you think they made of his hair?
Sing ? Sing ?
The finest rope (rug?) for the seat of a chair.
Sing ? Sing ?

Sing herring, sing hair, sing rope, sing chair.
Sing ? Sing ?
And indeed I've no more of my herring to sing.
Sing ? Sing?

----------------------------

OK, so that's what I've got. I'm just itching to know the ?'s. As you can see Tim it's basically the same as your Herring Song, yet radically different. Does anyone have a source closer to Eliza Carthy's version?

. . . . . . . . . . thanks, Vic

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 25-Jun-02.

Subject: Tune Add: THE SHOALS OF HERRING
From: alison
Date: 29 Oct 98 - 06:12 AM

Hi ,

Here you go. Tune taken out of Folksongs & Ballads Popular in Ireland book 3.

Please if you want me to make midi files.... send me a personal message because I don't necessarily get time to check all the threads.... I just sort of stumbled into this one by accident... and found Barbara's kind words.

I don't mind making midis at all.... so if I can help please let me know and I'll see if I know the tune.

Slainte

alison

MIDI file: SHOALHER.MID

Timebase: 480

Name: The Shoals of Herring
TimeSig: 2/4 24 8
Key: C
Tempo: 076 (789473 microsec/crotchet)
Start
0480 1 60 018 0358 0 60 018 0002 1 64 026 0118 0 64 026 0002 1 67 022 0238 0 67 022 0002 1 67 026 0238 0 67 026 0002 1 67 033 0478 0 67 033 0002 1 69 024 0358 0 69 024 0002 1 67 029 0118 0 67 029 0002 1 65 026 0238 0 65 026 0002 1 64 029 0238 0 64 029 0002 1 67 029 0478 0 67 029 0002 1 60 018 0238 0 60 018 0002 1 64 036 0238 0 64 036 0002 1 67 048 0238 0 67 048 0002 1 67 029 0238 0 67 029 0002 1 72 042 0358 0 72 042 0002 1 74 029 0118 0 74 029 0002 1 76 028 0238 0 76 028 0002 1 72 027 0238 0 72 027 0002 1 74 029 0358 0 74 029 0002 1 71 029 0118 0 71 029 0002 1 67 029 0478 0 67 029 0002 1 72 026 0358 0 72 026 0002 1 74 031 0118 0 74 031 0002 1 76 031 0358 0 76 031 0002 1 72 024 0118 0 72 024 0002 1 74 019 0478 0 74 019 0002 1 72 028 0358 0 72 028 0002 1 71 026 0115 1 67 029 0003 0 71 026 0242 1 65 029 0039 0 67 029 0199 0 65 029 0002 1 64 033 0118 0 64 033 0002 1 60 042 0358 0 60 042 0002 1 60 026 0238 0 60 026 0002 1 64 031 0238 0 64 031 0002 1 67 041 0358 0 67 041 0002 1 67 032 0118 0 67 032 0002 1 64 034 0238 0 64 034 0002 1 60 027 0238 0 60 027 0002 1 65 025 0358 0 65 025 0002 1 64 031 0118 0 64 031 0002 1 62 019 0478 0 62 019 0002 1 60 028 0478 0 60 028
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:The Shoals of Herring
M:2/4
Q:1/4=76
K:C
C7E|G2G2G4|A3GF2E2|G4C2E2|G2G2c3d|e2c2d3B|
G4c3d|e3cd4|c3BG2F2|EC3C2E2|G3GE2C2|F3ED4|
C8||

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: BAZ
Date: 28 Oct 98 - 06:00 PM

Pete
Got to agree with you about the Mackeral
Marion(my wife) and I were sitting down at the harbour a few weeks back playing the whistle and squeezebox when a fisherman we knew came in and handed us four.
We cleaned them then and there and grilled them over the coals straight away.
Magic!

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Barbara
Date: 27 Oct 98 - 06:52 PM

Oh, I see, Fenian, you were looking for a MIDI. If I can locate my Seeger/McColl songbook with that in it, I'll post it. But I have a suspicion that the book went for a walk a couple years back, and hasn't come home yet. I'll look.
Perhaps Alison or Joe can find or make a MIDI first.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Barbara
Date: 27 Oct 98 - 05:25 PM

Shoals of Herring was written by Ewan MacColl and is on his Black and White tape/CD. That should be definitive enough, hey? Check out the Ewan MacColl - Reccommendations? Thread for more information about the song.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: The Fenian
Date: 27 Oct 98 - 05:15 PM

Barbara, have you ever heard anyone sing the Shoal of Herring because I've only ever heard two people sing it right with the high's and low's in exactly the right places. Anyway that's it if you know anywhere where I could get a midi file of that song let me know.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Pete M
Date: 27 Oct 98 - 04:36 PM

Sorry Tim, can't agree. Soused herring, herring roe, herring in oatmeal - brings back memories and makes the old mouth water. Shame about the bones though. Mackeral now, that's as good and much more eater friendly so far as the bones go. Haven't had either since we left Tavistock twelve years ago.

Pete M

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: RaginPagan
Date: 26 Oct 98 - 02:34 PM

Strange, I was just listening to this bizzare song on the way home. I think I might have got the hang of her Somerset accent, so I'll spend some time trying to work the words out and get back to you.

I've seen Eliza Carthy a couple of times now. By the gods, she improves the scenery where ever she goes.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Susan of DT
Date: 25 Oct 98 - 03:02 PM

a search for herring nets 25 hits (23 about the fish)

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From:
Date: 25 Oct 98 - 02:47 PM

I grew up with herring and hate the odious stuff. Enough small bones to choke a cat. The pickled version always reminded me of the portions of dissected snakes in jars we had at school. Not as bad as gaspereau, though, a fish best left to the seagulls. No quantity of fiddleheads can make it palatable.

When I went up to Boston
They served me fish with frostin'
But heavens it was costin'
Too much for the likes of me.
Give me herring and potatoes
Herring and potatoes
Herring and potatoes
Is enough for the likes of me.

Or:

What we eat until we're bustin'
Manitobans find disgustin'
For it seems salt cod's upsetting
To their dainty western tongues
And with faces stern and stoney
They say herring's too damned boney
But there's nothing for dissolving bones
Like good Jamaica rum.

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: rich r
Date: 25 Oct 98 - 12:44 AM

It is a relief to know we are not hard of herring

rich r

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Vic in Australia
Date: 24 Oct 98 - 07:48 PM

Thanks Tim & Barbara. Yeah Tim , that's the same tune although a considerably different arrangament. E Carthy's arrangement goes something like:

So what do you think they made of his fins? Sing "????", Sing "????" The finest cases for needles and pins Sing "????", Sing "????" Sing herring, sing fins, sing needles and pins, Sing "????", Sing "????" And indeed I have more of my herring to sing....

...and then on to the next verse....No Chorus! so anyway, its those "????" bits that I can't figure out. btw, it's credited as Trad. arr.E.Carthy,S.Rose,E.Boyd

Thanks again, ....Vic

Subject: RE: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Barbara
Date: 24 Oct 98 - 05:51 PM

How many herring songs can there be, he asks. About as many as herring fishermen, I'd guess. Putting "herring" in the search box above right got me 25 hits, not all of them about herring, but all of them mentioning herring. Notably there is Ewan MacColl's Shoals of Herring and Gordon Bok's Herring Croon. How about it, Vic, are any of these the right ones?
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: Lyr Add: THE HERRING'S HEAD
From:
Date: 24 Oct 98 - 05:30 PM

Is this the one you mean? How many herring songs can there be?:)

THE HERRING'S HEAD
(Trad. arranged Chris Foster on "Sting In The Tail")

What will we do with the old herring's head?
We'll make it into loaves of bread
Herrings' head, loaves of bread,
And all such things.

[Chorus]
The herring is the king of the sea
The herring is the fish for me
The herring is the king of the sea
Sing whack-fol-do-dol-lay.

And what will we do with the old herring's eyes
We'll make them into puddings and pies,
Herring's eyes, puddings and pies
And all such things.

[Chorus again]

And what will we do with the old herring's gills
We'll make them into physical pills,
Herring's gills, physical pills,
And all such things.

[Chorus again]

And what will we do with the old herring's scales
We'll make them into buckets and pails
Herring's scales, buckets and pails
And all such things.

[Chorus again]

And what will we do with the old herring's fins
We'll make them into needles and pins,
Herring's fins, needles and pins,
And all such things.

[Chorus again]

And what will we do with the old herring's belly,
We'll make it into jams and jelly,
Herring's belly, jams and jelly,
And all such things.

[Chorus Again]

And what will we do with the old herring's back,
We'll make it into a fishing smack,
Herring's back, fishing smack,
And all such things.

[Chorus again]

And what will we do with the old herring's tail
We'll make it into a ship with a sail
Herring's tail, fish with a sail
And all such things.

[Chorus again]

Herring's tail, a ship with a sail,
Herring's back, a fishing smack
Herring's belly, jams and jelly,
Herring's fins, needles and pins,
Herring's scales, buckets and pails,
Herring's gills, physical pills,
Herring's eyes, puddings and pies,
Herring's head, loaves of bread,
And all such things.

[Chorus again]

I left out one verse because I couldn't understand Foster's accent no matter how hard I tried. It sounds like:

And what do we do with the old herring's guts,
We'll make them into comic cuts,
Herring's cuts, comic cuts,
And all such things.

Of course, if you add it to the song you have to add it to the list at the end.

Subject: Lyric:The Herring Song
From: Vic in Australia
Date: 24 Oct 98 - 11:42 AM

Could anyone help me out with the lyrics to the above? (Recently heard on Eliza Carthy's : "RED RICE") Much appreciated......Vic