Things planned for Sidmouth 50

Subject: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: GUEST,Anne Croucher
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 06:40 AM

The Sidmouth thread is getting too much even for my quite quick computer to handle - so I thought if anyone wanted to discus what is actually happening this year rather than what might not happen next a new thread might be more accessable.

So far I have noted the Theatre Bar 10 30 to 14 00 and The Volunteer Sunday 20 30 as places to look in on as a singer, I usually go down onto the promenade afternoons.

Anyone know if Black Bess Morris will be dancing?

Anne

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: GUEST,Rich A
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 07:00 AM

You can come to hekety's CD launch at the Anchor on Monday lunchtime!

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: GUEST,Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 07:53 AM

What's happening? It's a beautiful day, clear blue sky, 23 C in the shade, the festival construction crews have arrived and the natives are getting restless. The locals they do say "it be given fine for the weekend too". Better pack your sun hats. For details of B&B and minor camping sites search for other 'sidmouth' threads on mudcat.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Leadfingers
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 08:18 AM

I expect to be in The New Tavern most days after Saturday - We are working Saturday so I cant leave for Sidders till Sunday Morning .
See you all there !

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Phot
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 11:08 AM

Should be in The Middle Bar from Thursday Evening onwards, and looking foward to seeing everyone again.

Don't forget that Tuesday is SEA SONG AND SHANTY NIGHT! Mike and I will be driving, so bring your voices and pennies, lets try to break the £500 barrier for the Sidmouth Inshore Rescue Service this year!

Wassail!!

Chris

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 11:43 AM

I'll be the first time that I've been at the Middle Bar session for 24 years.

It's a pity that there won't be one of Taffy Thomas' Thursday night themed ceilidh's - I can remember the 60's one, the Punk one, and the Ceilidh at the end of the Universe.

I can also remember the year that they put Bill Rutter on trial.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 12:51 PM

The Volunteer Sunday Evening looks a good event as you suggested Anne, although probably not geared towards many drop in singers from my reading of the programme, but I'm MCing the Ham then so will miss it anyway.

I usually pop into the Theatre Bar at least once, maybe twice in the week but if my lunchtimes are free I tend to go to the Volunteer for the "in the tradition" sessions 12.00 to 2.00. I think my schedule this year means I'll only miss one of them.

The lunchtime Volunteer, Theatre Bar and Middle Bar all have their own distinctive flavour and appeal to different tastes. Mine veer toward the Volunteer but I also enjoy the Theatre Bar; well it's run by friends, what can I say.

Dave B: The Sidmouth history book mentions, in the section for 1980 that the Middle Bar singers sang all week, which ties in with the 25 year anniversary, but also states that you ran sessions there in 1978 and 1979. I guess that yours were not the whole week hence the "formal" 1980 start referred to, although it's not clear. You are credited with starting session there though. There's a photo of the Punk Ceilidh in 1977 but it's not easy to see who's who, probably a good thing!

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 02:54 PM

Glad to know I'm a friend, Kevin...

Tony Day has also produced a (much cheaper) book on the history of the Middle Bar Singers, which I purchased at the winter reunion last February.   There's a distinction between the start of singing and music in the Anchor (which started in 1975 or 76 when the anti-folk management left, and a sign suddenly appeared saying that folkies were welcome)and the later establishment of the Middle Bar Singers as an unaccompanied singing event with twig rules etc.   I distinctly remember Mike Price (who had been on the wagon) putting a tenner over the bar to buy a round, and singing for the rest of the week in what was then the Lower Bar, with Fred Rook and various Herga people....

The Ashby-de-la-Zouch folk club will be having its reunion singaround in the garden of the Volunteer on Friday 30 July.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: GUEST,Anne Croucher
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 04:26 PM

I have been looking for my Sidmouth 25 teeshirt for weeks only to find that I used to be a medium - the psychic abilities are as strong as ever but 24 years of carbohydrate aquisition have caused expansion beyond even the limits of teeshirt sag. Oh well no showing off there then.

I will try to go into the Middle Bar next week - but the atmosphere is not one I find easy to breathe in, and it comes out in a squeek. Even todays lower percentage of smokers affects my voice. I do like a good chorus to join in with, can be a bit shy in front of a crowd, so I don't mind being in an audience, in some circumstances.

I will pack my sun screen, wear my Tilley hat and have the insect repellent on standby - that should ensure a fine light drizzle with occassional downpours for the whole week. (only joking)

Anne

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: 8_Pints
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 06:30 PM

Which of the venues offer the least cigarette smoke to inhale?

My 'better half', alternatively known as 'de Management', finds it adversely affects her voice.

Our preferences are for the unaccompanied songs, either chorus or ballads and the more traditional sounding, the better.

I just love the unpredictability of what can be performed in a sing-around. Quite challenging if there has to be some connection with the previous song, no matter how tenuous!

We shall set off on Wednesday from sunny Manchester and hope to arrive later the same day.

Hope to meet you all rsn.

Bob vG

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Morticia
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 07:17 PM

Pixie and I will be mostly in the Middle Bar, I 'spect.......although with Leadfingers offering to buy us a pint, a tour of the Newt is also highly likely......see you all there.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: GUEST,squeezy
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 07:40 PM

If you can bear to miss the sessions, Danu and Steeleye on sunday night at 9 - you could wander up the hill to the Dance tent for BellowHead. We'd love to see you! And we've got a feeling it could be a very long night!!!

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Leadfingers
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 09:24 PM

Squeezy - I dont think I will be anywhere Sunday except the Newt , but
drop in for a few tunes and I will buy you a beer later on in the week . You can bring Mister Boden as well = Please ?

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: The Barden of England
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 03:18 AM

I'll be in the Bedford from friday as usual. Lots of different sessions in there. You'll see and hear all sorts that's for sure. I'll try and remember to wear my mudcat t-shirt.

Dave Bryant - My badge has been washed - so any chance of another for a pint? Hope you come to the Bedford too.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 04:06 AM

8 pints

The Theatre Bar is likely to be the least smoky. The Middle Bar Singers are hoping to operate a voluntary non-smoking code, but it won't be enforceable.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Morticia
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 06:33 AM

trouble with a no smoking code in the Middle Bar, which I don't object to at all, it that there are usually a goodly number of locals and passer-bys in there, don't think that they'd stick to it for a moment, do you?

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 09:23 AM

Well i am sure due to Brian Ingham's ill health the MBS will try to conform to the Non-Smoking policy as much as they possible can.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: GUEST,Anne Croucher
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 11:26 AM

If only there was some forced ventilation down in the Middle bar - I often remember the rules about remaining too long in chambers underground (from my caving days) when down there - being 5 ft 4 inches tall surrounded by hot bodies all breathing in the good stuff before it gets to me - good job I am not claustrophobic.

Mmm - new fine - five minutes on the pedal power ventilation system?

Anne

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: vectis
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 05:56 PM

The Royal York and Faulkener is a more formal but far less smoky singaround. Run by Rosie every night until late-late.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: 8_Pints
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 06:32 PM

Thanks to all for the info.

See y'all soon.

Bob vG

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 05:03 AM

I'll probably bring my badge-making gear to Sidmouth (inc PC and printer) so I should be able to supply any badge needs. Linda and I should be arriving for Monday afternoon - see you there.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Cats
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 05:38 AM

Leadfingers.. will you buy me a pint too, or should it be two? See you at The House.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 05:45 AM

8 Pints

Been away all weekend so just catching up. The Volunteer lunchtime session 12.00-2.30 will certainly satisfy your requirement for unaccompanied traditional sounding. The event is part of the "In The Tradition" series of events and is described as a traditional pub session. Virtually all of the traditional performers, and many of the revival, will be there during the week at some point.

As it's a pub there will be some smoking but I've never found it particularly smoky, There are two open doors opposite corners of the bar and probably the through passage of air helps. Nice garden to go into if it gets too crowded inside, and it always looks more crowded from the doors than it is if you shuffle inside.

I'll be there most lunchtimes, say hello if you get there, and can work out who I am! If I'm asked to sing whilst you're there that'll be a clue :-)

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 06:03 AM

For information:

There may be more 'law enforcement' at Sidmouth this year. Steve Heap has often 'moaned' about how other people benefit from the festival and give nothing in return. See (for example) www.seered.co.uk/folk4.htm for details from 2001. This year, (perhaps as a gesture to make Steve Heap think his concerns are being listened to at last), the local police and authorities have said they will be clamping down on 'illegal' trading along the Esplanade and elsewhere. So hair braiders and bead sellers beware.

Many local Sidmouth people (even those who support the festival itself) would welcome getting rid of these 'freeloaders'. If they want to trade, let them do it in the arena and pay a rent for their pitch. Many residents would welcome also a return of more amateur dance and singing groups to the Esplanade.

So, as a brief and probably over-simplified summary - expect to be moved on if you are an illegal trader and (it is to be hoped) welcomed if you are a folkie or other busking act. Amplified musicians are likely to be moved on along with the traders.

Discussion of the town meeting held on 14 June at which views of local people were aired is at www.seered.co.uk/folk18.htm.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 07:56 AM

The Punk ceilidh in 1977 was great fun. Somebody even started a counter "Punk shall not come to Sidmouth" campaign. Although I think it was started as a joke, a large number of the people who joined this opposing faction, took it quite seriously.

There was an advert in the Sidmouth News for "A Ear, Nose, Lip piercing workshop, to be held in the LNE men's toilet - bring your own needle, cotton-wool, and Dettol". Sidmouth completely sold out of Bin-Liners, Safety Pins, and Razor Blades.

The event itself was wonderful, Taffy as usual had devised some special dances: "OK there men - form arches - get those armpits going, I want to smell the B.O. from here, Ladies pogo up the middle holding their noses . . . . etc". I won a spot prize for a (simulated) puke over the M.C.

The "Ceilidh at the end of the universe" was also a riot. It was late starting (due to congestion on the hyper-route from Alpha Centuri, we were told) and the crowd were incited to riot by "Majikthise" and "Vroomfondel". This was sorted out by them being "arrested" by the Sidmouth Police who informed us that "It's not easy being a Cop !" I went as as Slartibartfast and Sheila Finn was the triple-breasted whore from Erotica 5. I seem to remember one lady naked except for a tiny thong all sprayed all over with silver paint. There were also some excellent Zaphod Beeblebroxs and other characters. However, none of us ever managed to hyper-port from one end of the set to the other properly, which according to Taffy spoilt most of dances.

We could really do with something like this again.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 02:08 PM

I've had an e-mail from Sheila M asking which day we should all wear gold, so I've asked her when was the first day of the first festival...

Kitty

(who recently threw out her only gold item of clothing, because she saw no likelihood of its fitting again.... but I still have several yellow t-shirts!)

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 02:18 PM

Herga I hope there MBS T'Shirts?????.But i send my love to you all in The Dove and Anchoras i will not be with you again this year.
Yas

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 04:41 AM

Kitty

I've had the same email from Sheila.

As always with such things there is no straightforward answer to your question.

According to "The Book" The first festival, 1955, ran from Saturday 30 July to Saturday 6 August, establishing the pattern of being the week with the first Monday in August (which was in those days the August Bank Holiday) which continues to today. But the early festivals were solely English Folk Dance Festivals and the first weekend was for the dancers to arrive and practice for the public Displays which began on the Monday 1st August and ran during the week. So the public posters and adverts for the festival gave the dates as Augist 1st to August 5th, when public displays and dancing took place.

So there are two dates to choose, one of which is this Thursday before many of us will arrive.

I don't have any gold apart from a couple of fillings.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 04:56 AM

Do you still have "Will Sid fix it" requests in the newsletter ? or those reported sightings of the foreign dance team that never turned up donkey's years ago. At one time there was usually an advert for a Highland Piper's workshop - 200 yards south of the drill hall at a time that coincided with high tide. Which reminds me - is there still a marine morris competition for the side that dances furthest out to sea ?

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 07:01 AM

So, as a brief and probably over-simplified summary - expect to be moved on if you are an illegal trader and (it is to be hoped) welcomed if you are a folkie or other busking act. Amplified musicians are likely to be moved on along with the traders.

From my past experience of the confusion and uneccessary bad-feeling caused by the efforts of well-meaning representitives of the official festival to take control of the esplanade and in particular of busking there, I greatly fear that the above will indeed be an over-simplified summary. It will indeed be very sad if the 50th is remembered only as the year of the inept if well-meaning 'jobsworth'. Perhaps we need a bit more than just to hope, that the baby is not to be thrown out with the bathwater?

I fear that the only buskers NOT moved on will be those busking for the festival, rather than those busking for themslves. Whether you consider and judge this busking in the town, at this festival to be good or bad, just trying to police it, by making these narrow distinctions, will a nightmare, counter-productive and quite out of keeping with a festival atmosphere.

Again, amplified music there, may not to be to mine or everyone's taste but unless it it causing a real problem or is drowning out other activities, this type of music is just as valid and should be as welcome on the esplanade as every other form of music.

I fear that any move towards the wish for more control over non-official traders from the organisers, being justified under a tighter enforcement of existing laws and by-laws, will be a wrong move. As once this is done - all aspects of these regulations will need to be strictly policed and enforced - even some of those which may have been lightly enforced in the past during festival time, to everyone's benefit.....

I really hope that a spirit of fun and tolerance can prevail at this special event. Certainly this, rather than prejudice and narrow-thinking and that this spirit of fun and tolerance will form the pattern for future events, that every vistor to Sidmouth, whatever their tastes, will be welcomed to enjoy and contribute to, at whatever level and in whatever form they wish.......

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 08:26 AM

I was under the impression that at one time Sidmouth Festival had the monopoly of busking proceeds for East Devon for the whole of the week.This was to cover the tours by morris dancers and the foreign guest teams. I was quite disappointed when, a few years back, buskers started to perform on their own behalf. I saw this as taking income away from the festival.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 08:49 AM

Whether you consider and judge this busking in the town, at this festival to be good or bad, just trying to police it, by making these narrow distinctions, will a nightmare, counter-productive and quite out of keeping with a festival atmosphere.

You may well be right and this might be a fine idea from the view of a festival supporter. But even if so, the problem remains of enforcing such a monopoly, without causing bad feelings.

The other way of looking at it is from the view of a regular Sidmouth busker, who would find that they would only be permitted to use their local pitch, if all their week's proceeds went to the Festival. With some justification, they may feel that the festival was taking money away from them.....

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: GUEST,Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 02:05 PM

RE Busking etc.

I was merely reporting what has been said locally, and the reasons given. It may be a waste of time for pavement traders to come with the idea that it will be 'business as usual'. Any enforcement is envisaged to be by police under by-laws. Most of these are flouted all the time - they are only enforced when there is a political need to assert authority.

The reason why a stricter approach may be taken at the festival is more to do with local councils wishing to 'be seen to be taking Steve Heap's views seriously' than with concern over undue blocking of free passage along the esplanade. In effect, S. H. has been 'moaning' for years and finally something snapped (Festival Press Release of 7 May 2004). This caught our councils unawares (despite they had been told what was likely to be announced as far back as January 2004) and they need to be seen (perhaps rather late in the day) to be doing everything in their limited power to retain the festival in Sidmouth.

Another 'little local difficulty' this year is that there may be more venues where access is denied even to season ticket holders because more have been sold. In the past, this has affected only a few 'star' acts and popular workshops. This time it may be experienced more widely. I don't have the data for exactly how many more season/workshop tickets have been sold. I believe the festival were making policy on total numbers rather on the hoof - to judge by what was going on in May in the Derby office. (www.seered.co.uk/folk9.htm)

So maybe it will be angst and frustrated folkies all round??

The weather has been splendid (or at least dry) for over a week but with an increasing threat of storms. Maybe the Gods will deliver judgement?

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 05:04 PM

I too have received the email from Sheila. In fact of the two Giants "Peace" (the lady giant) looks absolutely splendid in her gold headress.

Se you all there.

Best regards,

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 05:05 PM

My dictionary gives for Festival: day or time of celebration, series of musical etc, performances held regularly in town etc.

If there is a time for a stricter approach to the enforcing of by-laws that are usually ignored - it is not I suggest when the town is supposed to be in festival mode. Unless you wish for some strange reason to quickly get it out of festival mode.

I remember well a few years back when there was a move to prevent buskers on the esplanade from collecting for anything other than for festival funds. Some talented young musicians who we knew, arrived there for the first time to play and hopefully also make a little money. They were a little mystified at being prevented. This heavy handed approach at the start of the week did cause uneeded bad-feeling, especially as by half way through, the attempt to maintain the policy was abandoned.....

I see nothing wrong at all with encouraging folk to busk and collect for the festival but I feel the right approach is leaving the choice up to the buskers. If the buskers are left alone to go about their usual business - they may have some money to contribute to festival funds and be in the mood to do this.

The non-musical street traders are a different issue all together and it would be a shame if action to deal with these and to make folk pay to enter the festival area to get their nick-nacks and hair braided by traders who have paid the festival organisers - were to affect the music making and general atmosphere in any way.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: AggieD
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 05:28 PM

The trouble with taking the 'let them all just come along' approach is that, especially with this being such a big event this year, could be that too many traders/buskers will attempt to muscle in, & this could lead to trouble.

While some may think it is nice to see casual busking & trading we could all take the attitude that 'I'll stand here & see if I can make a few quid', then it would get out of hand. If I want to go to a festival, I still maintain that I should pay for what I get, not try to freeload from others who spend huge amounts of time & effort doing the organising, only to have others riding on their backs for nothing & I would get thoroughly p****d off if people kept doing it to me.

If people are trading or busking illegally, then surely it is in the hands of the police? I don't necessarily want to see heavy handed tactics used, but if there are young musicians out there who want to get paid for what they are doing, then encourage them to try to get bookings, not go out on the streets & beg, because that is what busking is no matter what title you put on it. Or perhaps make them buy a street traders licence, then some money would go back to the council, so they may then invest the licence money in the festival. Or is that too simple a tactic?

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 06:17 PM

There is a cultural difference when it comes to busking. The idea that it is simply begging is, I would suggest far more common in the UK than elsewhere.......Sadly.

The problem with Sidmouth is that there are now in effect two festivals. The town and the festival proper, with it own site. If the town's street traders and buskers were to descend on the festival area and start to pass judgements there and try to assume control, there may be some justification for some of the attitudes and comments expressed about 'freeloaders' etc. As they don't directly interfere there, and just try get on with having a fun time in the town, I see there is little justification for some of the judgements being encouraged to be expressed.

If you do not wish things to 'get out of hand' and there is no reason to expect this to be more the case this time, it would be sensible not to take any action that may prevoke bad-feelings that may result in possible confrontation in the town. Perhaps those who are already encouraged to be 'p**** off about what other people are doing, in a still free country, can just get on with their own affairs, rather than passing judgement on others?   

The casual music (and dance)in the town and the range of it, is one of the main attractions. It all adds to the colour of the event, yes even the town's hair braiders. Most of the music is not done for money but for the sheer pleasure of doing it. Trying to make a narrow distiction between the music made for an individual's profit and the rest, is to place at risking the whole event, for very little benefit.

Is it really not possible to just enjoy it all?

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 06:23 PM

I know one of the buskers (who do the "Square"). He normally works Covent Garden but makes more money at Sidmouth during festival week!!!

Perhaps the people who live locally could tell us how many buskers and hair-braiders are there on a normal (non-festival) summer day. Or is it the festival that brings them in?

It is Ok slagging off Mrs. Casey but they are bound by loads of regulations and as far as I know scrupulously adhere to them. Put yourself in their position - you obey the rules and someone else comes along and sponges off the people you have brought into the town and ignores the rules. In the meantime you are taking a huge financial risk creating the event in the first place........

Dave

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: GUEST,Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 06:50 PM

I agree broadly with the sentiments of "live and let live" but if one set of people (Mrs Casey) obey all the rules and take the risks and another set of people (hair braiders etc) do not then you can see the unfairness, despite that the money they take is pretty trivial (??). AggieD makes a good point - there is indeed local concern over just how many 'hangers on' might be attracted this year, including professional pickpockets who are always a problem. Young local drunks littering the esplanade give folkies a bad name every year.

Be assured that musicians, dancers etc who come for the love of it and maybe collect a few pence (or quite a few pounds for charity as do some young children) are unlikely experience problems. Many people in Sidmouth want more amateur and local groups (back to the 'good olde days') and less of the expensive international acts. However, they miss the point that (as far as I know) Sidmouth is fairly unique in having such a range of international groups attending.

There will be no repeat of the loud amplified music that used to be played from the Marlborough Hotel (now renamed Dukes and under management of a local Sidmouth family who run the hotel next door) and the Pan Pipes may be thought too loud. If anyone tried to move on a folkie with a guitar or a young girl with a recorder they might get lynched.

My main point was to 'warn' the pavement traders that it might not be a good investment to come this year! Next year, who knows!

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 06:52 PM

Not sure that I am slagging-off anyone, but this is a celebration and there are other issues just as important as money.

However, if (all) the rules are not enforced for 51 weeks of the year, no matter how scrupulously Mrs Casey (the festival organisers) obey them on their site etc - it is asking for trouble to insist the rules are more strickly enforced in the town, just for that week. And then just selective rules. For example, the rules about drinking in the streets are largely ignored and this relaxed atmosphere on the part of the police, needs to be encouraged.

I am also sure that the hundreds of hair braders descending (as we speak) upon the town are not going to present such a huge risk as to threaten the profitabilty of the event. No matter how upset the thought of street traders in Sidmouth is to some people it is a minor issue and should not even be a consideration for us at this point. It is a great shame that it would seem to be.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: GUEST,Steve in Sidmouth
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 06:55 PM

By the way, hair braiders and buskers are virtually unknown in Sidmouth except in folk week. Personally, I would like a few smaller festivals spread throughout the year as well as a large one in August. If it helped fill the hotels during non-peak months it would get some local support. Does any town successfully hold more than one event per year?

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 07:17 PM

I'm just looking forward to everything! -especially the Middle bar and the Bedford sessions as usual. I hope they've got the timings down to a fine art or else how do you choose between Steeleye Span and Danu? It rather looks as if they're on at the same time.
Re: smoking - if the smokers can't go outside would they make sure they actually smoke their cigarettes and not leave them smouldering and drifting up my nose, please? e.g in the Middle bar, if you're standing behind a seated smoker! Extractor fans may help but they also drown out the quieter singing voices.
Re: busking: I wouldn't favour a heavy approach as there are some excellent players and singers along the prom, some of whom collect for the festival, others maybe for other registered charities in whom they have a strong personal interest (no, I'm not meaning themselves necessarily!) One of my most memorable experiences of "busking " was when Blowzabella were in town in the 80s and played to an entranced small group of passers-by near the Ham end of the prom. I was seriously late for tea and got a big row for it, but it was worth it!
See you soon! Will bring a range of hats!
Tattie Bogle

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 07:37 PM

Perhaps all the hair braiders and buskers are here in Weymouth then? There is no shortage of them here.

Perhaps also some perspective should be placed before we move on.

Whether you accept live and let live, this is a free country (just) and as it stands - it is a fact that one does not need a ticket to enter a holiday resort like Sidmouth - at any time. It is hardly helpful to describe or think of all the non-festival attendees in this week, including the many holiday makers that a lot of people in the town depend on, as 'hangers on' and 'freeloaders'.

There is hardly a week goes by when there is not a festival of some sort going on in here Weymouth - life does try to go in holiday towns without folkies, kite fliers, WWII veterans, and beach volley ballers etc.

Perhaps Sidmouth can stage the first hair braiders festival at other times of the year and Mrs Casey can organise it?

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Leadfingers
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 07:54 PM

Having visited Sidmouth on a regular basis for the Festival for the last fourteen years , AND been there at various times of the year NON Festival , I have never seen a busker on the esplanade / Promenade EXCEPT during the Festival week . The 'busking for the Festival' went
out of the window because the Middle Bar collected more than any one else could and collected too many sticks ,so they cancelled they whole idea . And some of the 'Hangers On' who came with SOME of the professional buskers DID leave a little to be desired .

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 12:18 AM

I try to come over for the festival every year--have only missed one since 1996--,leaving tomorrow for the UK-- and the prom scene is absolutely magical and unique in all the world, I'm sure. Some of my best experiences in Sidmouth have been with people I've just run into on the prom and the music is just amazingly varied and vastly different from anything in the US. But one of the best aspects is its variety, and that is hindered by an amplified group of any kind, which thereby has an unfair advantage. Some of the amplified music can be so loud as to interfere with other activities, such as the York and Faulkner nightly sing. For what it's worth, I'm strongly for keeping it all acoustic.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 05:55 AM

Couldn't agree more Ron. The music making on the esplanade is magical and I tend to agree with you also on the amplified music issue also. But part of the magic is that what happens, just happens and it would appear that there are a number of people who do not understand this.

It is how potential problems are dealt with and there is no doubt that there are some. Rather than preventing casual amplified music making - perhaps this could be encouraged to take place and an area found for it, away from the other music and places likely to be affected?

I fear that what will happen, is what has happened before. To appease the organisers, some token effort will be mounted to deal with street traders etc and then soon abandoned. Only after a lot of confusion, uneeded tension and bad feeling has been engendered.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: AggieD
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 07:04 AM

I'm afraid Shambles that you are very wrong about the UK being worse than other places for busking , in many places you would not have that'freedom'.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy all the different sights & sounds, & have no problem with anyone just doing their own thing if that's what they want. I've been dancing & playing with a Morris team for the past 20 odd years, so love to just be able to turn up & perform wherever. My point is that if there was a problem with all the street traders, then it has to be left up to the police to decide what to do about it. I'm sure that if people are low-key & having fun then everything will carry on fine, but I still think that some of their collections should go back to the festival proper. As Steve says, the hair braiders don't set up the other 51 weeks a year.

I'm just looking forward to a whole week of singing, dancing & having a lot of fun.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: My guru always said
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 07:53 AM

Will be in the Middle Bar mostly but will try to get to The Volunteer, the Royal York & Faulkner & the Theatre Bar this trip. See all in The House from Tuesday onwards!

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 12:01 PM

I'm afraid Shambles that you are very wrong about the UK being worse than other places for busking , in many places you would not have that'freedom'.

Buskers can get along in the UK, so it is perhaps no worse a place to busk. Elsewhere in the world it is seen as a legitimate way to show and be rewarded for one's musical talents. If by freedom you mean that buskers in the UK generally barely tolerated, moved on and it is thought acceptable to refer to them as beggars. As you said because that is what busking is no matter what title you put on it., it is a strange sort of freedom.

Why would you think you are not also begging when you collect with your Morris side? Under our new Licensing Act, Morris and its music are to be exempt from the licensing requirement that even one musician, even one playing exactly the same tunes, are liable to. It is indeed a strange and judgemental sort of freedom that we have.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 12:17 PM

I started the following thread.

Busking is begging?

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 02:20 PM

Ron

Glad to hear you're coming over again - hope to see / hear you in the Middle Bar, and the Theatre Bar (and at the Doom and Gloom....)

Kitty

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 08:40 PM

In the busking/begging thread Shambles mentioned, I have posted info about the 1531 English Regulation about Sturdy Beggars.

Robin

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 05:58 AM

Well the caravan's sitting in the university car park, so that Linda and I can get going down the M3 (without having to go back to SE London) this evening. We're coming the pretty way via the New Forest and Dorset and should be reaching our campsite at Harpford (near the Bowd) about Monday Lunchtime.

Hope to see you all in the MBS - the first time for about 23 years !

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 04:05 PM

All packed (well, almost), and ready to go. All aboard for the Sidmouth timewarp...

I imagine there'll probably be a discussion workship at some some time during the week, where some of the topics raised in this thread can be explored in depth. Give my apologies...

See you round.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 04:37 PM

I should be packing but too knackered after a hard day of saving lives: will do it in the morning, work the afternoon, then 8hours' drive gets us to Sidmouth!
Having read the official view on buskers in this year's working programme, I would think they take a fairly balanced and accommodating view.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: The Shambles
Date: 31 Jul 04 - 01:43 PM

It would be interesting to read this. Is it possible to post this official view here? Even if this may be a week after the event....or perhaps especially as it is........

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 01 Aug 04 - 12:30 PM

All proceeds off busking should go to the festivaL.Thats the info i got from my son's working programme.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Aug 04 - 01:54 AM

Is that all busking anywhere in the UK any time?
Is that should as in by-law or some form of other official measure?
Does it say how this is to be enforced or who is going to do it?

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 02 Aug 04 - 05:39 AM

Asi got the info over the mobile i do not know too much except it is only festival week and its not the whole of the uk.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Aug 04 - 11:07 AM

This sounds like the monopoly on busking that Manitas referred to earlier in this thread.
We do not not know yet if this is a by law or whatever or how it is to be enforced (if indeed it will, or is) or if it can but:

Is it a measure designed to ensure that the maximum revenue is gained from busking for the festival funds?

Or one to discourage busking generally?

Or an outdated, badly thought out and judgemental half-measure, that will achieve neither of these ends but just confuse the issue even more?

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Aug 04 - 06:54 AM

How did the all the things planned for Sidmouth 50 - go?

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: GUEST,steve in sidmouth
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 05:12 AM

The most important piece of news is that a press release was issued yesterday stating that there would be no festival next year (2005) but that EDDC might try and get one for 2006. Obviously there is lots more to say and when the dust has settled news will be posted on the folk pages of my website (www.seered.co.uk).

Many people wish to organise some sort of festival in 2005 but with legal liability and maybe cash up front for marquees etc etc they may have a difficult task ahead. Some feel that Sidmouth is special (and worth a hike to attend) just because it is so big and international. Any smaller event would be more like Chippenham and maybe not worth the travel. By 2006 other events may have grown to rival Sidmouth?

Many issues remain to be resolved - updates will appear as above. The weather was fantastic, it could not have been a better week for the 50th celebration.

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 05:19 AM

The press release Steve refers to can be seen on the following thread The 51st Sidmouth Festival

Subject: RE: Things planned for Sidmouth 50
From: The Shambles
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 07:49 AM

Steve posted this on one of the many Sidmouth threads. It is probably better here as it answers some of the questions.

On one of the mudcat threads (not this one) I posted comments about the much discussd crackdown on traders along the Esplanade during the 50th Sidmouth festival. In the event the crackdown was a damp squib - and probably for two reasons. First, part of the reason for having it was to try and show Steve Heap that some of his concerns were being taken seriously (for a change) but as the festival got under way a decision to exclude Mrs Casey's Music from future Sidmouth events had already probably been taken and secondly, it turned out that having a valid pedlars' licence overrides the council byelaws. What a hoot. Read all about it at
http://www.seered.co.uk/folk28a.htm

Was the informal music making affect in any way by this 'crackdown'?