Sigma Guitars

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,zephyr
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 05:54 PM

I noticed a Sig-Mart DR-41, MIJ Japanese made '80-84 on Mpls Crgs-List, talked to the folks and had them bring it to a shop so I could get a long distance voucher on it. Just needs strings and a setup, and a fret oiling. Has a Piezo pickup, don't know if thats factory or not. I backed out of the deal, but want to see some nice folks make a sale. Check it out.

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,Derwood
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 06:00 PM

I bought a 52sdm-12-5 last year. I bought it because it sounded wonderful. I did not realize how old it was until I started doing some research. The neck is perfectly straight and the action is low with no buzz at all. It has the old logo and paper tag inside. No scratches or dings. 33-36 years old. I will never sell it.

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,Travis
Date: 18 Jun 14 - 05:31 PM

I just purchased a Sigma DM3 from a local pawn shop. It has the "sigma guitars est 1970" on the headstock. It has the screw bridge adjusters and the label inside the body has the old Sigma with the greek E, and it has made in Korea. But looking at the ads on ebay for it, the last ad I can find with screws in the bridge are the 1979 ones. I thought they were still made in Japan then. I'm confused about what I have. The guitr sounds great!

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,SIGMA IS GREAT
Date: 06 Jun 14 - 01:24 PM

I have a DR-28 From the 70's handed down to me it is a great sounding guitar. The best acoustic i own. Since its from the 70's it was made by martin. But they sold SIGMA In 95 .

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 May 14 - 12:47 AM

refresh, compensating for our downtime

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 08 May 14 - 07:11 AM

thought i'd drop by to see if there's any new information. i'm still playing my Sigma DM5s and amazing people with the sound of my ebay guitar. i bought what was supposed to be a "good" DM7 from ebay. it turns out to have a terribly twisted neck. i haven't figured out whether the guy ripped me off, or was ignorant. i'll keep it though and hope to find a good neck somewhere. for a strummer, it's great, but the intonation and action beyond the 6th fret are horrible.

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,NL CR-9
Date: 20 Feb 14 - 09:47 PM

Now I know there at least 2 Sigma CR-9s in the world!

I have one purchased used for my late wife about 25 years ago - paid $350 for it with a hard case. It is a very, very fine instrument - deep full sound, very nice neck, very playable. I have been unable to find much info on the CR-9 - there is a little on the 'net re the CR-7, but hardly a mention of the 9s. There is a listing in a guitar reference book a luthier friend has, but it gives no details - just that it exists. If anyone knows anything more, I'm all ears...

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: Fossil
Date: 16 Dec 13 - 04:27 PM

Hi, Rev - the point about the New Sigmas was made in this thread last year... they are now made in China, apparently to a pretty good standard. My post requesting information about them was answered by a Guest: "Olof in Sweden" on 11 July 2012. He liked his a lot.

It would indeed be interesting to hear from others who have tried and/or bought New Sigmas: they seem to be in guitar shops everywhere now, so they must be doing something right.

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,Rev Bayes
Date: 16 Dec 13 - 02:15 PM

It is probably time to add to this thread the point that a company in Germany has bought the rights and started making the things again so if you see a brand new looking one, it probably is.

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: Fossil
Date: 15 Dec 13 - 03:45 PM

In order to help out the many Guests who post here looking for information about Sigma guitars, I have put together a brief and hopefully succinct account of the Sigma Story, drawing upon the very large number of posts to the Mudcat Cafe Forum - particularly the (now very old) posts from Stirling Webb, the predominant expert in this field, and many others. In addition to the history of the brand, I have tried to provide pointers to dating and collecting Sigmas. Valuation is not covered, but will be defined by the marketplace in the seller's home environment.

If anyone would like a copy of this, PM me. Guests, this means you;ll have to sign up for the Mudcat, which is easy and quick. You might also like to make a donation to the fund which supports Max in running this site, that's up to you.

Subject: RE: DM-18 looking for similar serial numbers
From: Fumble Fingers
Date: 15 Dec 13 - 03:28 AM

Apologies if this has already been addressed. There are many pages in this thread and a gazillion posts, and I don't know how to formulate a specific search.

I have a 1980-83 DM-18 ("Sigma Guitars/Est 1970" on the headstock, "Made in Japan" stamped on the back brace. "S24478" (or possibly "824478") also stamped on the back brace. "420155" stamped on the end of the neck.

Many comments (which repeat each other) say it's difficult to impossible to identify the time or place the instrument was built from the serial number, but I bet one or two people have figured this out.

That's my info. Can anyone help me narrow down when and where this guitar was made?

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,terry
Date: 24 Oct 13 - 08:15 PM

ive got an offer to trade for a martin sigma dr 12-7 with a serial number of   s 80980 any way to date this or value of it

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,GUEST: Glen
Date: 29 Jul 13 - 11:38 AM

I've been reading many of the previous comments, and wanted to see if I can find out more information about my Sigma CR-7. Sterling's comments (among others)have helped me, and are much appreciated.

Solid spruce, very even color and fine grain over the entire soundboard, along with great crossgrain. No logo on the headstock, but a paper label inside printed in gold, but has aged somewhat and look more like copper now. The label is stamped in ink CR-7 with a 4-digit serial number 6486 and Made in Japan. This seems to match with my research for made between 1970-1978, but I read that with that serial number it is likely it was one the earlier models, as the serial number eventually went to 5-digits for models manufactured during the early years. The rosewood is lighter in color than EIR, quite similar to my Renato Bellucci Concert classical, which is by far my best sounding nylon string guitar. But my Sigma runs a close 2nd.

My question has to do with the upper and lower bindings and backstrip purfling. It consists of light colored strips with a turquoise colored strip in between. I've never seen anything like it before, and it's never been identified by anyone who has described their Sigma classical guitar. It's difficult to see with the naked eye unless under bright light, then it really pops! Is my guitar different, or was the turquoise marquetry used throughout this early time period? Any help regarding the serial number or marquetry would be appreciated greatly.

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: Fossil
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 08:00 PM

Just a wee addition to the above: if you really can't be arsed to read all the myriad postings on this thread, but want help in identifying your Sigma, at least track down Stirling Webb's post of 23 October 2004, which gives a potted history and a number of pointers about what to look for.

Alas, Stirling hasn't posted here for a very long time now, but we are all in his debt.

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: Fossil
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 07:38 PM

Hi all - since no-one else seems inclined to answer the spate of recent Guest postings about their Sigma finds, let me try...

1. Serial numbers of early Sigmas (70's to 80's) are of no help. It would appear that Martin didn't have any consistent system and their contracting guitar workshops, firstly in Japan, later in Korea (and there were quite a few over the years) probably used their own numbering systems, or just made them up. No-one to my knowledge has ever attempted to classify the serial numbers in a way which would identify the place or year of manufacture and I suspect that it isn't going to be possible now. Later models might, but I don't know of any sources for this. Serial numbers can sometimes confirm things: there are at least three Sigma 12-strings in New Zealand I know of with close serial numbers, which indicates that they may have been part of a batch imported here at the same time.

2. Model designations were sometimes stamped on the back brace and sometimes follow the Martin model designations. Mine is stamped "DR28-12", which means that it's a 12-string D28 body with rosewood sides and back. But sometimes they don't.

3. There is usually a "country of origin" brand on the back brace. This is oval, and is in three parts, the top lettering reading "Sigma Guitars", the middle the country (Japan on mine) and the bottom "C F Martin". Lacking this brand, the guitar probably isn't authentic (but who knows, really!).

And finally, Guests, do your homework! Read through all the posts on this thread. Yes, all 600-plus. You might learn something. The Sigma story is an interesting piece of history and learning about it will add to your experience when you pick up your guitar. Good luck - if you have found a nice old Sigma, look after it and it will repay you with many years of music.

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 04:21 PM

I have a sigma, the only numbers I can find is 46067 on the back brace and on the neck on the inside is 714010. I don't know what year it is or what it is worth. email me back at [e-mail], I'll send picture's if you can help me with this.

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,Kipster
Date: 08 Jul 13 - 04:25 AM

I bought my Sigma guitar in a pawn shop around 1992. How can I find out the model, year and place of manufacture? The serial numbers inside are 812247 on the neckbase and 284495 on the back brace strip... I'd like to know more about this guitar - it plays and sounds like a million bucks. I'd never sell it.

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 23 Mar 13 - 04:52 PM

Hi there

Great thread. About to take a look at the new Sigma range. I currently have two dreads a 70s Yamaha FG336 which sounds amazing and a Blueridge BR40 which is also a great sounding guitar once the poor intonation was sorted out.I like the idea of adding a rosewood backed guitar maybe in 000 shape. Certainly these Chinese clone guitars offer very good value for money but I begin to think they are pretty much the same guitars in different guise. Blueridge, Recording King, Eastman all look suspiciously similar in design and build. Still excellent guitars for the money but I wonder if Sigma are part of this club or offer something different.Thanks again for all the posts.
Tony

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,Tom Hill
Date: 10 Mar 13 - 05:22 AM

Awesome thread on Sigma Guitars...read as much as I could then skipped to page 15 14 & 13 to read the entries made by the illustrious Sterling Webb...this thread must be the authority on Sigma Guitars...Just purchased a Sigma DM 3 with 2nd Gen Logo and 800516 stamped inside...plenty of wear on the fret board which tells me someone loved playing this guitar...(well Shiela that is, since that's her name)...figure it was made in 1980 in Korea (also has the sticker inside saying made in Korea, and also a second set of numbers SK 107466 on the paper label, has an adjustable saddle, open backed tuners, oval thin tuning pegs)...perhaps not one of the coveted Japanese or "N" Sigmas but I love the clear crisp even tone...As someone who makes a living in bars and clubs in the Atlanta area playing some great Telecasters through old Fender amps mostly, this guitar has an even tone that is certainly more Martin like than my Takamine or Guild Acoustics...I appreciate all the info here...looks like a bone saddle and maybe a K&K Pure Pickup/Mic might be the way to get good tone amplified...I consider this a "Poor Man's Martin", which suits me just fine...I love it's tone...
Thanks, Tom Hill

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,Claus Hansen
Date: 31 Jan 13 - 04:16 PM

I have a similar one. Is yours sunburst? Do you still ahve it or is it sold?

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,Gary
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 03:22 PM

Hi,
I have a rather unique Sigma, meaning that I didn't see any mention of it here after reading this whole thread (unless I missed it, lol). It is a DV-4M. A while back I did do some exhaustive research on it and found little info, but I did find some. At any rate, I acquired it a yr or so ago in pretty much "new" condition. It looked like it had never been played or even handled much. I fitted a bone nut, saddle and bridge pins from Bob Colosi on it and it really sounds good, exceptionally good! If any one can provide additional info about this model I would appreciate it,,,thanks.
PS - I tried a few different strings but this guitar really came alive with Dean Markley Alchemy goldphos CL 12-54s.

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,the5th
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 11:30 AM

Great thread. I just picked up a a Sigma 12-string. Has a paper label that says "DM12-2" and it's made in korea and the "sigma 1970" in the martin script logo. Also has a sticker on the back of the headstock that says "made in Korea" so I guess it's definately not a Japan model.... I haven't been able to find much info about it though. One site says the model was only produced from '87-'93, but I've only found one source that says that, and I thought that the Korean models had Martin model numbers, and not the old japanese 2, 3, 5 etc. grading system. Sounds great though, and it's in fabulous condition. Even that sticker on the headstock isn't frayed or anything ;-) I'm happy with it, don't really care much about it's value or anything, it's a keeper, but a bit of history would be nice. Anyone have any info?

Subject: Need help identifying Sigma guitar.
From: GUEST,Charles
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 01:13 AM

My dad passed away and left me several guitars. Anyways I need help identifying a Sigma guitar that I have. The hard part is the sticker is missing but I have looked and found a close match on ebay and I think it is a late 70s or early 80s one due to the style of tuners and logo. I do have some pictures if that would help but do not know how to include them here.

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: JBreed
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 03:08 AM

Just wanted to add one more thought. I have seen in other threads where people were referring to the "side ways M" as the symbolic M for the Martin brand that was put sideways so that when the guitar was in the playing position the M would be right side up so people would recognize it as part of the Martin brand. Well, I am not about to claim that is not what the Japanese manufacturers had in mind when they produced the gen one headstocks, but the fact that the Greek symbol for the word "SIGMA" looks like a cap M laying on it's side is kinda ironic right!

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: JBreed
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 02:25 AM

I have a Sigma DR 45 with the Made in Japan stamp in back bracing that has the Sigma logo in MOP on the headstock. Interesting story about how I ended up with it. I bought an american strat from Guitar Center 4 months ago and about 2 weeks after I purchased the strat I was back in Guitar Center to buy some acoustic strings. Every time I am in the store I go to the acoustic room and play some of the guitars. I looked up on the wall that they use to hang their used guitars on and noticed at first what I thought was a Martin D45 from a distance with seeing the abalone inlay on the fingerboard. It also had abalone purfling on every edge of the body back and front. I saw the sigma logo and pulled it down to see what it sounded like. At the time I knew all about the sigma history with reading it on Wikipedia back when I bought a sigma dm4 from a pawn shop. The strange thing is the Guitar Center had the guitar labeled as the model being R200. Price was $499. The guitar sounded outstanding and very similar to my Gibson songwriter and sounded as good, IMO, as my Gibson J45. So, I handed the guitar to one of the guys in there that has sold me several in the past and asked him to hold on to it and I would be back in an hour. I went home and got the strat and traded it in on that sigma. They have a policy with new guitars that you have 60 days to return for a refund if you are not happy. Anyway, I really like the sound and seems well built. I can't tell if the back and sides are solid rosewood or not, but I know the top is solid spruce from the grain pattern in the soundhole. It only has a few light scratches and would be flawless except the white binding looks yellowed from the aging nitro finish. The Sigma logo is a MOP that looks golden when it reflects light. Gorgeous instrument that was obviously taken very good care of and prob lived in the case most all of it's life. I would imagine someone prob inherited the guitar and traded it in on a new whatever. The guy that sold it to me said they gave the guy $400 credit for the sigma and so only made $100 when they sold it to me. I still do not understand why they had it labeled as R200 and not a DR45. The stamp is not easy to see and when I was in the Guitar Center I had trouble seeing it and had to use my cell phone as a flash light to see the DR-45. I assume they couldn't really see it very well and didn't bother getting a light to look closer. Sorry for the long post.

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 02:22 AM

Be wary of proclaimed experts describing Sigma models of solid tonewoods. Those who are active traders on Ebay may have a financial stake in proliferating misinformation. While Sigmas of the Japan build era are generally well crafted and they produce good sound, almost ALL of them are laminate sides and backs. Having owned several Sigmas, ALL with lam sides and back (DR-7, DM-5, DM-2 Korean, DM-1, and DM-1Korean and late DM-1ST), none can compare to my favorite git, a 1990's Korea built Alvarez 6010 model which has been confirmed by St. Louis Music--importer of the Alvarez brand-- as a handmade solid wood special. However, its price back in '96 was $675 with a hardshell case. Over 16 years, its playing action and neck have remained awesome, and the intonation at every string, every fret measures to virtual perfection. A special violin finish is a nice touch, too. It is more playable and has a more nuanced, balanced tone-- superior to the D10 Anniversary Sigma in my opinion. Written 9/27/2012

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,dagerone
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 03:13 PM

Any other sort of Sigma Owners boards or anything out there? I have a 12-string acoustic that's had the label removed that I'm trying to determine its model, at least. If we had pictures to accompany descriptions, it would probably be helpful.

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 04:25 PM

Martin's budget import line.
I'd rather see them made in Canada or Mexico
(:-( ))=

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 03:59 PM

Henry, you racist wanker. What do you know about Sigma?

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 04:00 AM

Made in China.
Make me puke.
(:-( 0)=

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,Tapsa Sweden
Date: 05 Sep 12 - 08:59 AM

I found this Sigma SG-7 on Tradera (Swedish Ebay)

https://plus.google.com/photos/114137996757135772223/albums/5755265776657617377?authkey=CJy2qYGNvau6Aw

It sounds really great and the condition is like new !

Anybody know more about this model ? Very hard to find anything on Sigma SG-7

My emailadress is; [e-mail]

Thanks

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,Fossil at work
Date: 13 Aug 12 - 10:23 PM

Well, thanks Olaf from Sweden, that was an interesting and useful comment about the New Sigmas and I agree with you that guitars tend to look better without a lot of bling. Glad to hear that the new owners seem to be keeping up the quality even if they are now made (as I understand) in China.

The rest of the new Guests, please don't ask for valuations on your Sigmas - it will depend on so many factors. Mudcat is an world forum and the value will depend on your local market, apart from anything else.

And if you read back the forum, you will come to learn that serial numbers on Sigmas tend to be decorative (internal bling, if you like) rather than informative. No-one, not even Stirling Webb himself, who hasn't been on the forum for years, could decipher the system Martin/Sigma used and they can't or won't say. It is probably correct to say that they didn't have a system as such, but each contracting guitar factory - and there were quite a few of them - used its own system, or just made the numbers up.

The only things that mean anything at all are i) the country of origin stamp - usually branded onto the internal brace along with the model designation and ii) the shape of the headstock "Sigma" . Internal labels are also quite useful if they are there, but they aren't always...

If you really need a valuation, take it to a guitar professional.

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 12 - 11:58 AM

with sigma guitars returning, does this make my old sigma DR28-H(made in japan-early 80's) more or less valuable?

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,Guest, Timothy sdm-18
Date: 09 Aug 12 - 03:08 PM

Great Forum and THANK YOU hugely to all who have contributed.

I found in a Maryland junk pile my Sigma SDM-18...wooden burn stamp inside Saying Korean.

I rebuilt the headstock..reattaching it to the neck with some walnut (I am restoration specialist and this bit of luthiership appealed to me)

I loved it!! deep abiding love. I play for myself.

Now...from one of the inspired messages I just found here, I machined a perfect replica of the Saddle from 1/8"Brass..old soft brass..
I lifted the action a scant hair in the process.

And it sounds like a clarion to all other dreadnoughts!

Great advice!
Thanks again to all who post here.

If any would like a picture of the improvements I will happily send them [e-mail]

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,Gary DR12?
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 12:40 AM

Great informational post. Thank you mr. Webb for sharing your passion.

I have a DR12?. The label was missing when I got it a few years back. It clearly is from the 70's as it has the first generation headstock logo and adjustable bridge. I am pretty confident it has a solid spruce to and solid rosewood back and sides. The guitar is probably 8.5/10 for overal condition. I would say it is at least a grade 4 instrument in Sigma's scale, could perhaps be as good as a 7.

I am considering selling it so that I can find a same period DR7. If anyone is interested please contact me at [e-mail].

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,Tapsa Sweden
Date: 20 Jul 12 - 03:24 AM

I found this Sigma SG-7 on Tradera (Swedish Ebay)

https://plus.google.com/photos/114137996757135772223/albums/5755265776657617377?authkey=CJy2qYGNvau6Aw

It sounds really great and the condition is like new !

Anybody know more about this model ? Very hard to find anything on Sigma SG-7

Thanks

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,michael
Date: 14 Jul 12 - 03:34 PM

i have a sigma DR7 with serial # 3151 that i bought and haven't played a whole bunch. i recently got it down and played it some and found the action was way too high for me. a pro-setup finds the neck is somewhat warped and it has been heated/clamped and straightened twice, but it keeps going back.

question, is it worth putting more $ into it? the tech says he thinks the best thing is to take the fingerboard off, reface and reinstall the fingerboard, or something like that. i'm not sure i understand what he's saying. i hear the words, but the meaning is foreign.

i have abt $350 plus setup in it right now... but it isn't worth a dime to me this way. if all i played were cowboy strums in first position, it'd be fine, but up the neck the intonation and touch go crazy.

sooo, what's your opinion?

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,john k
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 04:18 AM

I have a Sigma DR-28H that i bought at McCabes music in santa monica ca in the early 80s. I have all the paperwork i received from C.F. Martin when it was registered with them. I never really took the time required to learn to play it worth a darn, so i would like to sell it . It is the Japanese version and in excellent condition, having been in the hardcase 90 percent of the time. I have pictures and a bunch of original paperwork that came with it. I am in the N.Bay of San Francisco area. Anyone interested can contact me at [e-mail]

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,Olof in Sweden
Date: 11 Jul 12 - 07:30 AM

Hi there all Sigma fans/owners !
Just found this VERY informative discussion about Sigma Guitars, thank you all!
There's a comment from "Fossil" (16 may 2012) about if anyone have a new Sigma.....well, I have recently bought a new DRC-28E, this one:

http://www.sigma-guitars.com/index.php?id=257

I paid 440 euros from a Ebay dealer (about 550 USD).
New, only unpacked and used for his photos - and it was "as new" when I got it!
Sigma Guitars hompage says "listprice" 670USD.

I was searching for a good "mid-price" acoustic, and ended up choosing between the DRC-28E, a Takamine EG340SC and a Tanglewood TW115-ST-CE, but finally decided for the Sigma, mostly because it looked best, in my opinion. Classic without a lot of sparkling inlays and bindings.

I must say that it's great value for the money (without beeing an acoustic expert). Sounds great, specially after changing the original Martin 0.10-strings to Elixir 0.11's. Think that 0.12's will improve the sound even more (but beeing a mostly electric guitar player using 0.09's, my fingertips have to take it "step-by-step")
The changing of strings was something someone at harmony-central recommended:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2884779-Sigma-DRC-28E

Haven't been able to compare to a real Martin, but played it A/B with my friends Gibson (don't remember which model, but it's quite similar, a dreadnought cutaway) and actually he was a bit...hmmm...."confused" that my Sigma sounded so good compared to his Gibson which he bought for about 3-4 times as much. Of course there was a difference in sound but no one of us could say which one sounded "better".
Also did some A/B-ing with my other acoustics a DEAN "exotic zebrawood" and a LAG T200D, both dreadnoughts, no cutaway, no electronics. Selling my DEAN now.....no place for more guitars !!!

So - my "5 cents" must be "great value for the money".
Looking for and older/used/vintage SIGMA now.........to eventually replace the LAG T200D

Best regards

Olof from Sweden

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 09 Jul 12 - 08:17 AM

My two SIGMA DR-14, both MIJ in the 70's.
Can't really find any (good) info about this model.
Who can help me?
http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj580/bjsv/Sigma_dr14.jpg

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,michael
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 01:26 PM

i've seen a number of GCR-7's in the ebay auctions and have been tempted, but i haven't pulled the trigger yet... how is it different than the DR7s?

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 06:01 PM

Hi, I have two amazing Sigma guitars, one is a first generation DR 12-7 with the original case and hang tag w/price & a first generation GCR 7. I need a truss rod cover with screws for the GCR, if anyone can help me please email me:   [e-mail]    Also, if anyone knows a good Luthier in ohenr. - Ontario - Canada, near Windsor, Ontario - Canada, please let me know at the email address provided above. Thank you in advance, Johnny.

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jun 12 - 08:46 PM

One thing we can certainly be assured of with Sigma guitars: We are not likely to ever unravel all the mysteries about them and their origins.

Even though this discussion centers around a finite space of time, I believe that it will never be truly over. There are simply too many inconsistencies surrounding their make-up and manufacturer(s.)

1st Gen headstock logo

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/bbrich57/Sigmalogo1E.jpg

2nd Gen headstock logo

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/bbrich57/Sigmalogo2E.jpg

2nd Gen headstock logo in Pearl (10th Anniversary Edition)

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/bbrich57/Sigmalogo2-10thE.jpg

We use html here, not PHP code. There is a link for making "blue clickies" next time you want to post a link. --mudelf

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,Richard B. a.k.a. bbrich57
Date: 10 Jun 12 - 07:21 PM

With regards to Sterling Webb, and I do thank him profusely for the information he has provided, I must say that from my own personal experience I can not agree with all he has said. He should not take my comment as an insult because I too am aware how difficult it is to consolidate and verify information about these wonderful instruments. As stated, even Martin seems confused and will only offer "stock" answers these days. In fact I got a rather rude reply to a query I made about my guitar a few years ago.

I have often wondered if Sigmas were made by more than one Japanese company in those days which might explain the model and serial differences as well as other physical inconsistencies/ discrepancies?

Some personal history: From the time I was about 6 yrs old, I wanted to be a drummer and became one. However, while in college in Bethlehem, Pa. during the mid-'70's about 10 miles from Nazareth I began to realize that not everyone appreciated the drums, especially the girls, and that drums were much, MUCH harder to carry around than a guitar. So in short and having a few guitar playing friend's, I too took up the guitar.

My best friend had purchased a brand new D-18 around 1974, so he & I went to a local music store on September 23rd, 1977 to check out what was there and in my price range. In short, and knowing I wanted a 12-string, we decided a new Sigma DM12-5 was the guitar for me. $199.50 retail plus another $35.50 for a good hard shell case... which I still have BTW.

I'm sure the guitar had been there for at least 6 months before I bought it so it must have been a '76 or '77 model. The serial number was 017482. It had open-back tuners which have held up better than the frets over the years. It also had the Martin style headstock decal (Sigma Guitars/Est. 1970,) which Mr. Webb calls the second gen instruments beginning around 1980. Obviously this can't be completely correct.

And up till now, I always assumed it was a plywood guitar but it sounded so sweet and had decent volume too. I had removed the rear strap pin on many occasions and was never able to truly tell.

So about ten months went by and this instrument began to belly, badly! Being so close, I took it to the Old Martin factory (c1835) on North St in Nazareth (June 27th, 1978 to be exact) which was then being used as the "Import House."

One of their luthier's looked it over very well and even though I begged him, he said it simply was not worth fixing. He went to another room and brought out 3 brand new DM12-5's, fresh from their boxes and asked me if I liked any of them? If not he would get three more. I chose one and handed it to me and said, "How do you like that?"

I told him I was new to guitar but really liked the way the other was set up. So for the next 2- 2-1/2 hrs he tediously went over it and adjusted everything, occasionally handing it back to me for my approval. When I was satisfied, he installed a new set of Marquis strings for me (my chosen strings) and carefully put it in my case for me. "Here ya' go!" was all he said. I wish I knew who he was and where he is today. I would love to be able to thank him much better than I was able then. Nice guy, and very patient with someone who wasn't quite sure what he wanted at the time. I played that (2nd) guitar for over 30 yrs.

Fast forward to Sept 2009, the Friday before Labor Day. While at work, our home was broken into and three of my guitars were stolen... the three I played regularly (naturally,) among them the 12-string. I was heart-broken. 31 yrs of friends, parties, playing with friends and Gigs, all gone.

So I went in search of another 12-string and purchased what I think is a '79-'80 DR12-7. Pretty std stuff, except the "economy" tuners were bad so I replaced them. Also the bridge pins, saddle and nut were replaced w/bone.
A few weeks later I also purchased a 52SDR-9 which by and in all views seems to be made of solid woods!!

I've had it all apart, looked inside with an inspection mirror, etc and am still looking for further clues, but it has the 1st Gen Sigma headstock logo, beautiful rosewood 3-pc back and sides, non-adjustable bridge, no zero fret, interesting fret board inlays (not quite like snow flakes. More like a maple leaf in mirror image of itself.) single bound headstock and fretboard. Currently I am having a few frets professionally replaced and a bone nut/saddle installed on it too. When it comes home, I have new tuners (Grover 18:1 ratio) to install as well, and the case it came with to do some repair work to.

Subject: RE: new sigma guitars
From: GUEST,michael
Date: 24 May 12 - 09:41 AM

i see the new sigma guitars are being listed with ebay, looks like they're shipped from england.

this is the 2nd "older" label i've seen revived recently. Ventura is another.

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: Fossil
Date: 16 May 12 - 05:34 AM

As a Sigma owner (Japanese DR28-12, 1982) who has been watching this thread forever, it's a bit sad to see that this whole page is Guests, who obviously haven't bothered to read back to the informational stuff.

Believe me, it's worth doing.

So, Guests, whoever you may be. Your Sigma is worth whatever you can persuade the market to pay for it. No-one here is qualified or can can be arsed to give you a valuation. If you read back the thread, you should be able to get a county of origin and might, just might, be able to get a date for it. Japanese-made ones are the cream, really early Japanese ones are the creme de la creme. Otherwise it's up to you to spin the story in your sales pitch.

Stories of interesting or rare variations (viz, the MoP headstocks) are that; interesting. We'd all love to know the full story, but it doesn't look like we ever will.

Anyone yet bought/tried/played a New Sigma? That would be a really interesting contribution...

Subject: Korean DM 2 C
From: GUEST,Guest.Duxterman
Date: 15 May 12 - 11:05 AM

I have just purchased a Sigma. Inside is a Yellow label with Serial No 93050010 and designated DM 2-C. The guitar is a single cutaway. Having scoured the internet I can find no evidence that such an instrument was ever even made by Sigma. Have I been duped?

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,michael
Date: 05 May 12 - 08:28 PM

i have a sigma DR7 with serial # 3151 and a sigma DM5s with serial # 3993. both are fine instruments. i prefer the DM5s.

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,BH
Date: 18 Apr 12 - 02:10 PM

Thanks in large part to the information in this venerable thread (and a special hat tip to Mr. Webb, wherever he may be), I just bought a DR12-7 for a bit under $300, and I almost feel guilty of theft. Great tone, great volume & projection, no bridge lift or belly buckle. Stout as can be, and cosmetically 9/10+. I don't pose as an expert, but the back & sides are either (a) solid rosewood, or (b) a laminate with the external and visible internal grain perfectly matched; and I'm certain the top is solid sitka, judging from the visible soundhole grain. I've not removed the endpin for a closer check on the side wood, simply because I don't want to risk it. Personally I don't greatly care, but my tentative conclusion is that it's solid wood all around, & that jibes with what Mr. Webb and others have stated. There is some Sigma inconsistency, however: it has the original headstock logo, a zero fret, and an adjustable saddle, all (especially the zero fret) supposedly indicating a '70 - but the paper label seems to be the 2nd type and has a long serial number beginning with "74", indicating (again according to a Webb post) perhaps a '74. In any case, she's a hell of a 12-string in my book, and way ahead of the beater I was expecting to get for what I could spend.

Subject: RE: sigma guitars
From: GUEST,Guest DR-45
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 04:28 PM

It's been a while since I was on this forum. Thought I would go over my collection of Sigma's. I have a DR-45 in excellent condition, these are super rare to find. I have two D-10's both excellent.
A rare SDR52-9, hard to find. A GCS-7 in nice condition, and lastly
a DR-11 withe the MOP inlays in the fretboard like the DR-41. What is unique about this one is the "SIGMA" is inlaid in MOP instead of the gold paint. It is one of only two verified to have this feature, the other belonging to (Sterling) the guru of Sigma collectors. If anyone has another Sigma with the name Sigma inlaid in MOP please post and let us know.