Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Lighter
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 09:03 AM

Pretty weird from my Yankee POV.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Kidd Springs Boy
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 12:12 AM

"Vince Rinktums"(sp?) was something my Dad said when I came home from a haircut as a very little boy, age 3 - 6 or so, then he'd rub his bent knuckle upwards against the back of my freshly shorn neck. For some reason, I googled that weird phrase tonight and found this thread. What an epiphany. This was in Dallas in the late 50's. I also watched Mr. Peppermint every weekday morning and asked my Mom to call the police when Heckle & Jekyll kidnapped Howdy Doody for a few shows on tv.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Lighter
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 09:03 AM

Pretty weird from my Yankee POV.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Kidd Springs Boy
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 12:12 AM

"Vince Rinktums"(sp?) was something my Dad said when I came home from a haircut as a very little boy, age 3 - 6 or so, then he'd rub his bent knuckle upwards against the back of my freshly shorn neck. For some reason, I googled that weird phrase tonight and found this thread. What an epiphany. This was in Dallas in the late 50's. I also watched Mr. Peppermint every weekday morning and asked my Mom to call the police when Heckle & Jekyll kidnapped Howdy Doody for a few shows on tv.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Jul 23 - 11:24 PM

I hadn't thought about this forever but did so today. I couldn't quite remember how my dad said it so I went to the internet for answers. This discussion has set me right. Thank you internet! lol
Venture Rinktums No returns (we would say the entire phrase) was said by the newly haircutted person to avoid the knuckle up the back of the head.Rinktums was said to allow the person saying it to inflict the knuckle. The game wasn't about pain. It was mostly a demonstration of "I'm more aware of the situation than you. I win."
My dad was born in 1916 in Dallas and graduated from Texas Tech in 1939.
He might have picked it up there in West Texas just as several here have previously mentioned their own West Texas roots.
This seems to be a very specific regional thing. I'm guessing, based on Texas' many German immigrants, that the origin somehow has it's roots in the German language. We are of German descent.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Redneck
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 07:35 PM

My father grew up in the Fort Worth, TX, area, born 1928, and went to UT 1945-1950. He taught us to say "no rinctums" specifically to everyone you saw after getting a haircut. If one told you "rinctums" first, they got to rub their knuckles up the back of your head--the harder, the better. This led to, and still leads to, lots of conflict after haircuts, together with creative rules on when "no rinctums" works or doesn't work.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Jan 22 - 01:56 PM

Surely a rinktum is a belly-button ring?

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jan 22 - 02:18 PM

My husband and his father would say “Venture rinktums” upon returning home from getting a haircut. Northwest Louisiana 1950s

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Derek
Date: 14 Dec 21 - 08:46 PM

After a haircut, my Father would say no rinktums. By saying this you avoided getting the top of your head rubbed with knuckles from a rinktum participant.
I came here looking for what rinktum was referring to.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 05 Mar 21 - 10:46 AM

The King of OO-RINKTUM-JING

Dainty Baby Austin!
Your Daddy’s gone to Boston
To see the King
Of Oo-Rinktum-Jing
And the whale he rode acrost on!

Boston Town’s a city:
But O it’s such a pity! —
They’ll greet the King
Of Oo-Rinktum-Jing
With never a nursery ditty!

But me and you and Mother
Can stay with Baby-brother,
And sing of the King
Of Oo-Rinktum-Jing
And laugh at one another!

So what cares Baby Austin
If Daddy has gone to Boston
To see the King
Of Oo-Rinktum-Jing
And the whale he rode acrost on?

from

https://medium.com/@poetic-curation/the-king-of-oo-rinktum-jing-8c3ef98eb0b6

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Guest, LI NY
Date: 05 Mar 21 - 09:57 AM

My mother a privileged white southern gal (born 1920 in Missouri pronounced Missourah) educated in a private womens college in VA used to wear a thing like a thong in her undergarments'. She called it a "chaffie". I asked her what the "chaffie" was for, and she said: "It covers ma "rinktum ditty" son."

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Helen Cole
Date: 11 May 20 - 11:59 PM

It's a food, Welsh rarebit made with tomato sauce, soup or stewed tomatoes instead of beer. AKA ring tum diddy

It appears that Rinktum Ditty came to America from England, specifically from Cheshire. It became associated with New England, but it clearly spread nationwide, even appearing in a 1917 collection of recipes in Arizona.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 02 Jun 18 - 06:01 PM

Actually, the comments about duck tails does intersect wqith haircuts..

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Lighter
Date: 02 Jun 18 - 08:39 AM

"Venture Rinktums."

Should be the name of an early Puritan settler.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,K. L. Wilson
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 05:09 PM

My husband's grandparents were born in 1919 in southern Oklahoma. They told us that after you got a haircut you were supposed to say "Venture rinktums" on your first meeting. A failure to say the phrase gave the other person the right to pull your hair at the nape of the neck, which was called "getting rinktums." Apparently they were really hard up for entertainment back then.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Feb 18 - 09:42 AM

Somebody asked for an etymological summary so far. Not definitive but here's a shot at it.
1) Early 18thc piece of fun/entertainment/game UK (cant expression) RIGDUM, gave rise to chorus in Keemo Kimo/Froggy versions.

2) perhaps derived from 1) US (Maine) musical party

3) rectum derivative. US

4) most common and universal perhaps evolving from 1) nonsense word in song choruses.

5) Knuckle scouring on top of head and related practices, mainly southern US.

6) Welsh Rarebit = Rinktum diddy.

7) Outcome of home engineering, also poss. related--successful fixing of something. East Tex & TN

8) Possibly related to 7) gadget or tool. Ind.

9) An angry or upset state, Nova Scotia. (Latin derivative-rinctum)

10) positive or pleasurable experience, perhaps related to 1) & 2) Mo & Iowa (Aussie-'dinkum'?)

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Fay
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 10:45 AM

Another vote for the haircut thing! My dad would do the knuckle thing and - I thought - would say "Rinktum's Finch" but maybe it was "Vinch". I've never met anyone who knew this saying (not that I ask all that often - haha). Glad to know it was a thing. He grew up in Hico/Waco.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Oct 16 - 03:48 AM

Just a thought
Ducks on the Millpond and what ducks do to feed. Show their rinktum?
Logical, but maybe I am talking out of my .................

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Whittington, Sally
Date: 01 Oct 16 - 06:06 PM

OHHHH. this brings back so many memories! Both my parents are dead now, but my sister and I were just remembering about our childhood in Houston, Texas in the 50's. She remembered the vince rinktums, but I just remember the Ringtums part (I am the baby of the family.) We would put our thumbs right above the ears, and push in and pull up at the same time, if the person getting the haircut did not say Rinktums No returns! What fun we had reading this thread! My dad came from the Brownwood area of Texas, and his family dates back to the Texas REvolution. No telling when in Texas history this tradition was started!

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,DV Lewis
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 11:15 AM

Exactly as I remember as well. My father, born in west Texas (San Angelo) in the mid '30s did the same thing to me. Growing up in the 60s', after having a haircut when my dad came home from the office, if I said Vinch Rinktums (not sure the spelling) when he saw my haircut but before he said Runktums,then I would avoid that knuckle up the back of the head. And, like mentioned before, once you slept on the new haircut, you were safe. Never understood the tradition, and never thought to ask before he passed. Must have been a west Texas thing. We did grow up with some odd traditions (like setting off fireworks on Christmas eve).

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Suzanne
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 04:26 PM

My family used rinkdum like Guest: Joanna. When my mother cooked a perfect dish my dad would proudly share the verdict...Hazel, you've sure got the rinktum on that dish!! It was a moment of great pride for my mom and we girls and my parents got a devilish kick out of it all! But rinktum was also used for non food things to indicate someone had perfected a task. My dad was of German heritage, my mom was English/Scottish and both were born in 1920. The families both come to Southern Missouri from Kentucky, I believe. But my dad was in the AirForce and we lived mostly in TX, LA, and AR.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Phil Freeman
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 09:09 AM

Rinktum was still in use when I was a boy in the 1950's to mean rubbing the knuckle on a fresh haircut. My grandfather also sang "Froggy Went a'Courtin'" with the "laddie come a rinktum ki-me-o" chorus which he claimed was from the Cherokee. Part of the chorus also included the words "Captain Karo", but I've forgotten the rest - have it written down somewhere.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 May 14 - 10:14 AM

My fingers resolutely refuse to type any gags about Gordons.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Lighter
Date: 19 May 14 - 07:26 PM

"Don we now our gay apparel" is now sung in American grade schools as "Don we now our fine apparel."

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 19 May 14 - 05:57 PM

It would seem that what we have here is a word with multiple meanings, and not necessarily all related. Can we take it back any further than the early 18thc? Like many another word meanings can change drastically over centuries, the word 'ballad' for instance. The use of the word 'gay' to mean jolly is practically extinct now. I bet most kids are no longer aware of its earlier meaning unless they hit it in nursery rhymes.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 14 - 01:56 PM

Well, the Latin suggestion's pretty much baloney IMHO (and I work in the language at post-doctoral level at what's pretty much the top academic centre using it). Might be, but far more likely otherwise...

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Tom Sowell
Date: 19 May 14 - 11:30 AM

My father would do the same as Richard Aldridge. We are also from Texas ( my father from Corsicana ).

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Richard Aldridge
Date: 24 Nov 13 - 10:14 AM

When my brother and I were young boys it was customary that we always show off our new haircuts to my father. Without fail, he would tell us to turn around so he would have better access to the back of our freshly shaved necks. Then, he would lick his finger and quickly run it up against those very short hairs (in the opposite direction of their growth) and say "Rinktum". It was sort of a declaration of his approval--although I don't ever remember him disapproving. It was always received as an act of endearment by both of us, and we are not aware that he ever used the word in any other way, or on any other occasion. Funny, but we never asked him what it meant or where it came from. We assumed that it was just another one of his many old-fashioned customs. He was raised on a dairy farm with many brothers and sisters, by highly educated and religious parents, in central North Carolina. Perhaps it was a local custom that somehow migrated from Texas (as was mentioned above).

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 12:36 PM

But isn't sparrow grass actually earlier?

Hm, no, I'm wrong, says the OED, "mid 16th century: via Latin from Greek asparagos".

Another rinktum relative is to be found in Whiskey in the Jar:

With a ring dum doorum da
Whack fol the daddy o
Whack fol the daddy o
There's whiskey in the jar.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 12:11 PM

"Venture" and "vince" are totally unrelated words which sound similar enough (depending on the pronunciation) that we can safely assume that one of them originated from mishearing the other. Since "vince" is not in current English usage, it might be the older form - in a possibly longer chain of mishearings, creative adaptations, and pure inventions.

Many of the "mock Latin" words used in folklore can be traced to genuine Latin, as used in religious texts, law, classical quotations etc. For example, "dixie dominie" clearly reflects the Latin psalm translation used in traditional liturgies.

Mudcat has many threads about "almost-nonsense" in folklore, explanations varying between safe and preposterous. In the case of "vince rinctum", I estimate 30% probabilty that it stems from real Latin - but only 1% that we will ever find out in this thread.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Sanjay Sircar
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 08:21 PM

1. QUOTATION STARTS Re: 22 May 08 - 04:38 PM

If anyone remembers the old tune, "Hi-Ro Jerum," which contains the phrase "skin-a-ma-rink-e-dood-li-um," we may have now discovered a variation (expansion?)on the Rinktum theme...

I believe the song starts,
"There was a rich man, and he lived in Jerusalem
Glory Halleleuia, Hi-Ro Jerum..."

This was contained in an old "Song Fest" book from 1960 or so.
QUOTATION ends

This song is quoted by Gerald Durrell in _My Family and Other Animals_ as one he sang with his tutor in his pre-War childhood in Corfu, so it is at least from the earlier half of what is now the last century. The family was from India, so they might have carried it from there, unless the tutor taught it to him. Jerusalem rhymes with spruce-lum here, which is charming... I did not know there was a game attached. The full words of the song would be nice to have.

2. These -um endings in verse, genuine and nonsense or nonsensed are not uncommon - e.g. the nursery rhyme "My true lov livse across the sea/Petrum partrum paradise temporie/Perrie merrie dixie dominie" etc.

3. Re: QUOTATION STARTS: I dunno whats the fuss - we thought everbuddy growed up hollering "rinktums" when somebody got a haircut. If you was the one what got your haircut and fergot to holler "venture rinktums", you know how those knuckles hurt going up both sides of your bald head. My dad learned it from his dad , who was born in 1884 and grew up in Jewett, Leon County, Texas - about midway between Houston and Dallas.QUOTATION ends

- Ah done done growed in parts furrin' ter most folkses heah, en ah kin tell y'awl th' kwivverlent cust'm in ole Bombay way out eass-wudds wuz ter cawl out "Chiptotee" ter a felleh whut'd had his hair newly shawn - en ter givum a sharp crack ovet the haid with the nucckles (c. 1969).

The "And no returns" portion of the custom was not used tere, though familiar from other British derived folk-customs in Calcutta 1960s.

4. So how many distinct/unrelated homonym words and meanings does this make so far?

Sanjay Sircar

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 05:26 PM

Almost ungoogleable

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 11:57 PM

Short for watchyoumaycallit; syn. Hootenanny

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Bob
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 11:17 PM

Anyone who grew up in West Texas in the 1950s would know that "Rinktums!" is always plural. The exclamation announces the good-natured attack on a boy who has just had a haircut. The attack is administered by making a fist,with the middle knuckle protruding, and moving the knuckle up the freshly trimmed sideburn with gusto. The only way to prevent such an attack is to yell "No rinktums" before the new haircut is discovered or to prove that the new haircut has already been slept on.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 06:35 PM

dustyhaze, if you want to contribute to ethnography, please tell us where your grandfather was raised, and what (if anything) your family told you about where he picked up that little ritual, and what explanation he had for it. Texas as well?

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: mayomick
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 09:42 AM

The Scots and Irish word for dance is "rince" pronounced "rinka". Could the use of ringtum , ringa , etc to start so many choruses in lively Scots/Irish songs have derived partly from this - an exhortation to dance !

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Guest:dustyhaze
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 02:21 AM

In the haircut sense I have wondered for 60 years what my grandfather and father meant when they came in at lunchtime and yelled "Rinctums" at my cousin after he got his hair cut. Also what they did to him to make him yell. At a recent family reunion, he showed me what they did and I was really sorry I had asked. If he was paying attention to them he would yell, "Vinture Rinctums.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,levchikk
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 05:08 AM

It's a cuckoo's nest.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Gurney
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 03:06 PM

Then there's 'Whip Jamboree,' where 'Jenny' is exhorted to keep her ringtum warm. Sometimes ringpiece.
That doesn't take much working out. It's a cuckoo's nest.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Donald
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 06:22 PM

My great aunt, born long before 1900 in Missouri or Iowa, used rinktum to indicate something positive and pleasurable. Would you like to go see that movie? Oh, yes, that'll be the rinktum!

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 02:45 PM

I might add that 'flummery' of course has long meant polite nonsense.
By 1811 the phrase 'Balum Rancum' was being used to describe a hop or dance by prostitutes in the nude. This would seem to fit the subject of the ballad and may relate to 'Rigdum Bolleram'.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 02:30 PM

The OP was asking about the meaning in song choruses. In that case I can trace it back to the early 18th century in England when the word was then 'RIGDUM' and probably related to 'rig', a prank, a bit of fun or a trick.

The series of songs based on the tune and tricky chorus that survive in some variants of the 'Froggy Went a Courting' song and the minstrel song 'Kemo Kimo'. Which of these two used the tune and chorus first is hard to say. Froggy of course in different forms goes back into the mists of time.

The Camp Garland contains the song 'The Oxford Milkmaid's Entertainment at Camp at Burlington-Green. To the tune of 'Gameorum'.
This tune title suggests that the form, tune and chorus were already in existence when this ballad was made in the early 18thc.

The first verse runs

A Milk maid going out of late,
With a Rigdum for a little Game,
To see the Camp it was her Fate,
With a Rigdum for a little Game,
Gameorum wildum gorum, game wildum game,
Can you net a Flummerum, a Rigdum Bolleram,
Rigdum for a little Game.

At least some of these are real words and earlier usages of the chorus may have made more sense. If pushed I'd say it was probably camp followers' cant. The addition of 'um' onto the end of real words is a common form of 'in' lingo practised by some people, similar to the adding of 'y' and such onto the end of pet names and terms of endearment.

There are 26 stanzas of bawdy fun and frolicks with the officers and men.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Rob B.
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 04:30 PM

I dunno whats the fuss - we thought everbuddy growed up hollering "rinktums" when somebody got a haircut. If you was the one what got your haircut and fergot to holler "venture rinktums", you know how those knuckles hurt going up both sides of your bald head. My dad learned it from his dad , who was born in 1884 and grew up in Jewett, Leon County, Texas - about midway between Houston and Dallas.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 11 - 04:20 PM

My mother. who grew up on a farm in northern TN, had several expressions I remember--one she used a lot when tying to fix something was "Let's just work a rinktum". I have looked for it in slang dictionaries, but stopped short of trying the OED. She also said "I'm hot as a hen in a wool basket" and "hungry as a bitch wolf."

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Joanna
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 03:58 PM

In my family, the word "rinktum" means "an ideal solution to a problem."

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 11:15 PM

"Something similar was probably going on when "asparagus" came to be called "sparrow grass" in some communities."

There's actually a name for this phenomenon. It's called "folk etymology".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_etymology

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Tres
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 10:24 PM

I was raised here in Western part of Texas. Memaw Estelle Stracener was born Hannah Estelle Best in the year 1900. She had many funny sayings and "spizzar rinctum" was one of them Generally, you would hear her say it when she was offering you something to add to your coffee or tea. She'd ask you, "Spizzar Rinktum?" I always supposed it meant "do you want sugar, cream, or maybe lemon). All the grandkids remember these words and many more.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 06:08 AM

Continued (because more than two links per post are not allowed):

If you are interested in indo-germanic etymology, run this Russian page through Google-translate.

Vince means "you win" - easy to understand in spite of corrupted grammar.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 06:07 AM

Some dictionaries mention Latin rinctus (neuter rinctum) as a variant of rictus, which translates "angry, furious, agressive". (The verb of this participle is ringor - "to react to amateurish drumming in Beatles songs" ;-) - the rest is true!).

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 11 - 11:19 PM

Rinctum Diddy recipe

Ingredients
1 tablespoon butter
1 tablespoon flour
1 cup sweet milk
1 egg
1/2 lb. cheese, grated
1 can tomato soup
1 teaspoon soda
1 teaspoon salt
Dash red pepper
Toast or crackers

How to make Rinctum Diddy
Melt butter and mix in flour.
Beat egg and milk and stir.
Let cook 1 minute, then add cheese.
After cheese melts, add tomato soup with soda stirred in.
Let come to a boil, add salt and pepper, and cook until it thickens.