Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 23 May 08 - 03:17 AM

This was apparently the marching song of the American Brigade in the Spanish Civil War. Or, at least, so Charles Parker (of Radio Ballads, not the sax player) told us when he sang it.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Joanie
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 12:40 AM

My father, who was born in 1924 in Central Texas, would come home from work after stopping by for a haircut at the barber shop, and say "no rinctums, no returns" before anyone noticed he'd had a haircut. It was merely an indication to me that he'd gotten a haircut - I didn't know I was missing an opportunity to mess with him! It wasn't until a few years ago that I ever investigated what a rinctum is - it was just one of those things my dad said - never really followed up on it! If my father were still alive, I'd ask him to weigh in on this important matter that has been discussed on here since August of 2004!

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,JWW
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 10:55 PM

I grew up in Red River County in Northeast Texas and people would say "rinktums" to someone with a fresh haircut and rub the back of their head harshly in an upward motion with a knuckle. My mother says people used to say "Rinktums on your haircut" then rub the back of the person's head. My wife, who grew up in Western Louisians, had never heard of it, neither had her mother, so I decided to look on the Internet to see what I could find.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 10:55 AM

I grew up on Cape Sable Island, Nova Scotia and rinktum or rinctum was term used to explain someone who had gotten into an angry state or rage or fit over something. As in "Johnny got himself into quite a rinktum over all the mess the kids left behind". My mom would often say to me if she saw I was getting upset over something "Now, don't go gettin' yourself into a rinktum over it".

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 11:20 AM

A belly flop at an ice skating rink...? It looks suspiciously like another one of those nonsense syllables for which the Irish people, especially, are famous; i.e., "Whack fol the diddle."

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 02:22 PM

I always thought a riktum was one of those things you have to pay to download for your cellphone........

I'll get me coat!

Don T

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 02:23 PM

RINKTUM!!

I need a new keyboard

DT

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Mark in DC
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 02:24 PM

Yes the Texans have it right, especially C Fry and H. Molson. After a haircut, growing up in Dallas, I had to yell Vince Rinktum. If I didn't my grandad (who was born in 1913) would use his knuckles to Indian burn the back of my neck up the base of the head. All they had to do was yell Rinktum before I yelled Vince Rinktum.

I have carried on this tradition with my nephew and nieces. Of course with the neices you have to be gentle. But the boys get a good burn, lol.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Eddie
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 12:25 PM

My family, from Alabama, used the haircut sense. However, it was delivered in a different manner -- the deliverer made a fist, with his thumb sticking out and down atop the victim's head, and then quickly flipped the fist over, in the process scraping/rapping the knuckles across the top of the head, while calling "Rinktum."

I also heard the word in grandpappy's version of "Froggy": Froggy went a-courtin' and he did ride, squatty-watty rinktum hymeo.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,MacDuff
Date: 09 Jul 10 - 06:58 AM

WOW. I'm from Fort Worth Texas raised by a dad from near Lubbock Texas and we definitely did the haircut thing! Rinctums, no returns made you safe to do the knuckle burn as described above. No rinctums saved your head. All this after hair cuts. Now we live in Indiana and my 5 kids and my wife all get a kick out of this. My 18 yr old son came in last night after a hair cut and made certain he shouted "no rinctums" to each member of the household as he saw them. I thought this was a fun game and started it with my family. My wife who is from near Corpus Christi never heard of it. It is lots of clean fun and a great tradition for a family to pass down. Funny that the girls can rinctum the boys but not the other way 'round.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Hobbie Joe, Jr
Date: 13 Jul 10 - 09:06 AM

My wife just called to tell me this story...

She and our 5 year old son were dropping off our 3 year old girl at day care this morning when he saw one of his sister's classmates getting out of the car. The classmate clearly had a fresh hair cut. Still sitting in the car, our son yells out across the yard, "RINKTUMS!!" Nobody else knew what he was talking about, but my wife was cracking up.

After she called, I decided to Google "Rinktums" and this is what I found. I didn't think I would find anything and was about to give up reading through these comments when I got to C Fry's. My dad was born and raised in and around Houston and he passed the Rinktums/Venture Rinktums tradition on to me and obviously on to my kids. This was a bittersweet moment, however, as my dad passed away just 6 short months ago. :-(   Thanks for the memories, Dad.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 07:40 AM

A Rinktum is the same thing as a tantrum

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Marion of Lubbock
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:26 PM

The Texans have it right! When someone gets a haircut, they better call "Ventchu rinctums" to be safe (until next haircut). If they don't, then anyone who calls "Rinctums" gets to rub the back of their head against the way their hair grows. My family has followed this little ritual for decades. I learned it from my father who was born in 1913 on a farm in Santa Ana, Texas.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 11 - 11:19 PM

Rinctum Diddy recipe

Ingredients
1 tablespoon butter
1 tablespoon flour
1 cup sweet milk
1 egg
1/2 lb. cheese, grated
1 can tomato soup
1 teaspoon soda
1 teaspoon salt
Dash red pepper
Toast or crackers

How to make Rinctum Diddy
Melt butter and mix in flour.
Beat egg and milk and stir.
Let cook 1 minute, then add cheese.
After cheese melts, add tomato soup with soda stirred in.
Let come to a boil, add salt and pepper, and cook until it thickens.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 06:07 AM

Some dictionaries mention Latin rinctus (neuter rinctum) as a variant of rictus, which translates "angry, furious, agressive". (The verb of this participle is ringor - "to react to amateurish drumming in Beatles songs" ;-) - the rest is true!).

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 06:08 AM

Continued (because more than two links per post are not allowed):

If you are interested in indo-germanic etymology, run this Russian page through Google-translate.

Vince means "you win" - easy to understand in spite of corrupted grammar.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Tres
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 10:24 PM

I was raised here in Western part of Texas. Memaw Estelle Stracener was born Hannah Estelle Best in the year 1900. She had many funny sayings and "spizzar rinctum" was one of them Generally, you would hear her say it when she was offering you something to add to your coffee or tea. She'd ask you, "Spizzar Rinktum?" I always supposed it meant "do you want sugar, cream, or maybe lemon). All the grandkids remember these words and many more.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 11:15 PM

"Something similar was probably going on when "asparagus" came to be called "sparrow grass" in some communities."

There's actually a name for this phenomenon. It's called "folk etymology".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_etymology

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Joanna
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 03:58 PM

In my family, the word "rinktum" means "an ideal solution to a problem."

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 11 - 04:20 PM

My mother. who grew up on a farm in northern TN, had several expressions I remember--one she used a lot when tying to fix something was "Let's just work a rinktum". I have looked for it in slang dictionaries, but stopped short of trying the OED. She also said "I'm hot as a hen in a wool basket" and "hungry as a bitch wolf."

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Rob B.
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 04:30 PM

I dunno whats the fuss - we thought everbuddy growed up hollering "rinktums" when somebody got a haircut. If you was the one what got your haircut and fergot to holler "venture rinktums", you know how those knuckles hurt going up both sides of your bald head. My dad learned it from his dad , who was born in 1884 and grew up in Jewett, Leon County, Texas - about midway between Houston and Dallas.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 02:30 PM

The OP was asking about the meaning in song choruses. In that case I can trace it back to the early 18th century in England when the word was then 'RIGDUM' and probably related to 'rig', a prank, a bit of fun or a trick.

The series of songs based on the tune and tricky chorus that survive in some variants of the 'Froggy Went a Courting' song and the minstrel song 'Kemo Kimo'. Which of these two used the tune and chorus first is hard to say. Froggy of course in different forms goes back into the mists of time.

The Camp Garland contains the song 'The Oxford Milkmaid's Entertainment at Camp at Burlington-Green. To the tune of 'Gameorum'.
This tune title suggests that the form, tune and chorus were already in existence when this ballad was made in the early 18thc.

The first verse runs

A Milk maid going out of late,
With a Rigdum for a little Game,
To see the Camp it was her Fate,
With a Rigdum for a little Game,
Gameorum wildum gorum, game wildum game,
Can you net a Flummerum, a Rigdum Bolleram,
Rigdum for a little Game.

At least some of these are real words and earlier usages of the chorus may have made more sense. If pushed I'd say it was probably camp followers' cant. The addition of 'um' onto the end of real words is a common form of 'in' lingo practised by some people, similar to the adding of 'y' and such onto the end of pet names and terms of endearment.

There are 26 stanzas of bawdy fun and frolicks with the officers and men.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 02:45 PM

I might add that 'flummery' of course has long meant polite nonsense.
By 1811 the phrase 'Balum Rancum' was being used to describe a hop or dance by prostitutes in the nude. This would seem to fit the subject of the ballad and may relate to 'Rigdum Bolleram'.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Donald
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 06:22 PM

My great aunt, born long before 1900 in Missouri or Iowa, used rinktum to indicate something positive and pleasurable. Would you like to go see that movie? Oh, yes, that'll be the rinktum!

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Gurney
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 03:06 PM

Then there's 'Whip Jamboree,' where 'Jenny' is exhorted to keep her ringtum warm. Sometimes ringpiece.
That doesn't take much working out. It's a cuckoo's nest.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,levchikk
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 05:08 AM

It's a cuckoo's nest.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Guest:dustyhaze
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 02:21 AM

In the haircut sense I have wondered for 60 years what my grandfather and father meant when they came in at lunchtime and yelled "Rinctums" at my cousin after he got his hair cut. Also what they did to him to make him yell. At a recent family reunion, he showed me what they did and I was really sorry I had asked. If he was paying attention to them he would yell, "Vinture Rinctums.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: mayomick
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 09:42 AM

The Scots and Irish word for dance is "rince" pronounced "rinka". Could the use of ringtum , ringa , etc to start so many choruses in lively Scots/Irish songs have derived partly from this - an exhortation to dance !

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 03 Jul 12 - 06:35 PM

dustyhaze, if you want to contribute to ethnography, please tell us where your grandfather was raised, and what (if anything) your family told you about where he picked up that little ritual, and what explanation he had for it. Texas as well?

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Bob
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 11:17 PM

Anyone who grew up in West Texas in the 1950s would know that "Rinktums!" is always plural. The exclamation announces the good-natured attack on a boy who has just had a haircut. The attack is administered by making a fist,with the middle knuckle protruding, and moving the knuckle up the freshly trimmed sideburn with gusto. The only way to prevent such an attack is to yell "No rinktums" before the new haircut is discovered or to prove that the new haircut has already been slept on.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 11:57 PM

Short for watchyoumaycallit; syn. Hootenanny

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 05:26 PM

Almost ungoogleable

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Sanjay Sircar
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 08:21 PM

1. QUOTATION STARTS Re: 22 May 08 - 04:38 PM

If anyone remembers the old tune, "Hi-Ro Jerum," which contains the phrase "skin-a-ma-rink-e-dood-li-um," we may have now discovered a variation (expansion?)on the Rinktum theme...

I believe the song starts,
"There was a rich man, and he lived in Jerusalem
Glory Halleleuia, Hi-Ro Jerum..."

This was contained in an old "Song Fest" book from 1960 or so.
QUOTATION ends

This song is quoted by Gerald Durrell in _My Family and Other Animals_ as one he sang with his tutor in his pre-War childhood in Corfu, so it is at least from the earlier half of what is now the last century. The family was from India, so they might have carried it from there, unless the tutor taught it to him. Jerusalem rhymes with spruce-lum here, which is charming... I did not know there was a game attached. The full words of the song would be nice to have.

2. These -um endings in verse, genuine and nonsense or nonsensed are not uncommon - e.g. the nursery rhyme "My true lov livse across the sea/Petrum partrum paradise temporie/Perrie merrie dixie dominie" etc.

3. Re: QUOTATION STARTS: I dunno whats the fuss - we thought everbuddy growed up hollering "rinktums" when somebody got a haircut. If you was the one what got your haircut and fergot to holler "venture rinktums", you know how those knuckles hurt going up both sides of your bald head. My dad learned it from his dad , who was born in 1884 and grew up in Jewett, Leon County, Texas - about midway between Houston and Dallas.QUOTATION ends

- Ah done done growed in parts furrin' ter most folkses heah, en ah kin tell y'awl th' kwivverlent cust'm in ole Bombay way out eass-wudds wuz ter cawl out "Chiptotee" ter a felleh whut'd had his hair newly shawn - en ter givum a sharp crack ovet the haid with the nucckles (c. 1969).

The "And no returns" portion of the custom was not used tere, though familiar from other British derived folk-customs in Calcutta 1960s.

4. So how many distinct/unrelated homonym words and meanings does this make so far?

Sanjay Sircar

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 12:11 PM

"Venture" and "vince" are totally unrelated words which sound similar enough (depending on the pronunciation) that we can safely assume that one of them originated from mishearing the other. Since "vince" is not in current English usage, it might be the older form - in a possibly longer chain of mishearings, creative adaptations, and pure inventions.

Many of the "mock Latin" words used in folklore can be traced to genuine Latin, as used in religious texts, law, classical quotations etc. For example, "dixie dominie" clearly reflects the Latin psalm translation used in traditional liturgies.

Mudcat has many threads about "almost-nonsense" in folklore, explanations varying between safe and preposterous. In the case of "vince rinctum", I estimate 30% probabilty that it stems from real Latin - but only 1% that we will ever find out in this thread.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 12:36 PM

But isn't sparrow grass actually earlier?

Hm, no, I'm wrong, says the OED, "mid 16th century: via Latin from Greek asparagos".

Another rinktum relative is to be found in Whiskey in the Jar:

With a ring dum doorum da
Whack fol the daddy o
Whack fol the daddy o
There's whiskey in the jar.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Richard Aldridge
Date: 24 Nov 13 - 10:14 AM

When my brother and I were young boys it was customary that we always show off our new haircuts to my father. Without fail, he would tell us to turn around so he would have better access to the back of our freshly shaved necks. Then, he would lick his finger and quickly run it up against those very short hairs (in the opposite direction of their growth) and say "Rinktum". It was sort of a declaration of his approval--although I don't ever remember him disapproving. It was always received as an act of endearment by both of us, and we are not aware that he ever used the word in any other way, or on any other occasion. Funny, but we never asked him what it meant or where it came from. We assumed that it was just another one of his many old-fashioned customs. He was raised on a dairy farm with many brothers and sisters, by highly educated and religious parents, in central North Carolina. Perhaps it was a local custom that somehow migrated from Texas (as was mentioned above).

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Tom Sowell
Date: 19 May 14 - 11:30 AM

My father would do the same as Richard Aldridge. We are also from Texas ( my father from Corsicana ).

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 14 - 01:56 PM

Well, the Latin suggestion's pretty much baloney IMHO (and I work in the language at post-doctoral level at what's pretty much the top academic centre using it). Might be, but far more likely otherwise...

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 19 May 14 - 05:57 PM

It would seem that what we have here is a word with multiple meanings, and not necessarily all related. Can we take it back any further than the early 18thc? Like many another word meanings can change drastically over centuries, the word 'ballad' for instance. The use of the word 'gay' to mean jolly is practically extinct now. I bet most kids are no longer aware of its earlier meaning unless they hit it in nursery rhymes.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Lighter
Date: 19 May 14 - 07:26 PM

"Don we now our gay apparel" is now sung in American grade schools as "Don we now our fine apparel."

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 May 14 - 10:14 AM

My fingers resolutely refuse to type any gags about Gordons.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Phil Freeman
Date: 02 Apr 15 - 09:09 AM

Rinktum was still in use when I was a boy in the 1950's to mean rubbing the knuckle on a fresh haircut. My grandfather also sang "Froggy Went a'Courtin'" with the "laddie come a rinktum ki-me-o" chorus which he claimed was from the Cherokee. Part of the chorus also included the words "Captain Karo", but I've forgotten the rest - have it written down somewhere.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Suzanne
Date: 26 Apr 15 - 04:26 PM

My family used rinkdum like Guest: Joanna. When my mother cooked a perfect dish my dad would proudly share the verdict...Hazel, you've sure got the rinktum on that dish!! It was a moment of great pride for my mom and we girls and my parents got a devilish kick out of it all! But rinktum was also used for non food things to indicate someone had perfected a task. My dad was of German heritage, my mom was English/Scottish and both were born in 1920. The families both come to Southern Missouri from Kentucky, I believe. But my dad was in the AirForce and we lived mostly in TX, LA, and AR.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,DV Lewis
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 11:15 AM

Exactly as I remember as well. My father, born in west Texas (San Angelo) in the mid '30s did the same thing to me. Growing up in the 60s', after having a haircut when my dad came home from the office, if I said Vinch Rinktums (not sure the spelling) when he saw my haircut but before he said Runktums,then I would avoid that knuckle up the back of the head. And, like mentioned before, once you slept on the new haircut, you were safe. Never understood the tradition, and never thought to ask before he passed. Must have been a west Texas thing. We did grow up with some odd traditions (like setting off fireworks on Christmas eve).

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Whittington, Sally
Date: 01 Oct 16 - 06:06 PM

OHHHH. this brings back so many memories! Both my parents are dead now, but my sister and I were just remembering about our childhood in Houston, Texas in the 50's. She remembered the vince rinktums, but I just remember the Ringtums part (I am the baby of the family.) We would put our thumbs right above the ears, and push in and pull up at the same time, if the person getting the haircut did not say Rinktums No returns! What fun we had reading this thread! My dad came from the Brownwood area of Texas, and his family dates back to the Texas REvolution. No telling when in Texas history this tradition was started!

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Oct 16 - 03:48 AM

Just a thought
Ducks on the Millpond and what ducks do to feed. Show their rinktum?
Logical, but maybe I am talking out of my .................

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,Fay
Date: 22 Feb 18 - 10:45 AM

Another vote for the haircut thing! My dad would do the knuckle thing and - I thought - would say "Rinktum's Finch" but maybe it was "Vinch". I've never met anyone who knew this saying (not that I ask all that often - haha). Glad to know it was a thing. He grew up in Hico/Waco.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Feb 18 - 09:42 AM

Somebody asked for an etymological summary so far. Not definitive but here's a shot at it.
1) Early 18thc piece of fun/entertainment/game UK (cant expression) RIGDUM, gave rise to chorus in Keemo Kimo/Froggy versions.

2) perhaps derived from 1) US (Maine) musical party

3) rectum derivative. US

4) most common and universal perhaps evolving from 1) nonsense word in song choruses.

5) Knuckle scouring on top of head and related practices, mainly southern US.

6) Welsh Rarebit = Rinktum diddy.

7) Outcome of home engineering, also poss. related--successful fixing of something. East Tex & TN

8) Possibly related to 7) gadget or tool. Ind.

9) An angry or upset state, Nova Scotia. (Latin derivative-rinctum)

10) positive or pleasurable experience, perhaps related to 1) & 2) Mo & Iowa (Aussie-'dinkum'?)

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: GUEST,K. L. Wilson
Date: 01 Jun 18 - 05:09 PM

My husband's grandparents were born in 1919 in southern Oklahoma. They told us that after you got a haircut you were supposed to say "Venture rinktums" on your first meeting. A failure to say the phrase gave the other person the right to pull your hair at the nape of the neck, which was called "getting rinktums." Apparently they were really hard up for entertainment back then.

Subject: RE: Folklore/Linguistics: What's a Rinktum?
From: Lighter
Date: 02 Jun 18 - 08:39 AM

"Venture Rinktums."

Should be the name of an early Puritan settler.