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BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?

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GUEST 11 Aug 04 - 11:07 AM
GUEST,MMario 11 Aug 04 - 11:22 AM
Amergin 11 Aug 04 - 11:24 AM
GUEST 11 Aug 04 - 11:46 AM
Ellenpoly 11 Aug 04 - 11:52 AM
John MacKenzie 11 Aug 04 - 12:06 PM
GUEST 11 Aug 04 - 12:10 PM
el ted 11 Aug 04 - 12:13 PM
GUEST 11 Aug 04 - 12:24 PM
DMcG 11 Aug 04 - 12:26 PM
Wolfgang 11 Aug 04 - 12:40 PM
GUEST 11 Aug 04 - 12:47 PM
GUEST 11 Aug 04 - 12:53 PM
Blackcatter 11 Aug 04 - 12:56 PM
DMcG 11 Aug 04 - 01:13 PM
GUEST 11 Aug 04 - 01:18 PM
TheBigPinkLad 11 Aug 04 - 01:25 PM
Blackcatter 11 Aug 04 - 01:34 PM
John MacKenzie 11 Aug 04 - 01:48 PM
GUEST 11 Aug 04 - 01:58 PM
Peace 11 Aug 04 - 02:00 PM
GUEST 11 Aug 04 - 02:08 PM
pdq 11 Aug 04 - 02:17 PM
GUEST 11 Aug 04 - 02:26 PM
GUEST,Blackcatter at work 11 Aug 04 - 02:28 PM
GUEST 11 Aug 04 - 02:33 PM
Peace 11 Aug 04 - 03:33 PM
TheBigPinkLad 11 Aug 04 - 03:38 PM
John MacKenzie 11 Aug 04 - 03:49 PM
GUEST,Blackcatter 11 Aug 04 - 03:51 PM
Peace 11 Aug 04 - 04:05 PM
Peace 11 Aug 04 - 04:27 PM
TheBigPinkLad 11 Aug 04 - 04:31 PM
kendall 11 Aug 04 - 10:07 PM
pdq 11 Aug 04 - 10:22 PM
GUEST,Olympic Shams. 12 Aug 04 - 04:48 AM
kendall 12 Aug 04 - 07:02 AM
GUEST 12 Aug 04 - 09:28 AM

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Subject: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 11:07 AM

I have a work colleague who insists that US athletes may be booed this year because of hatred for Bush and US arrogance abroad.

Anyone in an odds giving mood?


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 11:22 AM

which will make it different from other Olympics how?


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: Amergin
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 11:24 AM

Why feeling is who cares? Does anyone actually watch the Olympics anymore?


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 11:46 AM

Well Amerigin, since the global tv audience for the Olympics is an estimated 1 billion people this year, maybe it is you who are out of touch?

In 1996, American tv rights were sold for $456 million, Western European nations combined paid $250 million in fees for the same games, and the cost of American tv production and broadcast of the games came in over $150 million, bringing the grand total in 1996 to around $850 million. And the networks lose money on the Olympics, don't forget.

With that kind of investment, if the US is booed, I guarantee (forget the odds) there will be an American and European media feeding frenzy the likes of which we may never have seen on the international stage. Well, at least since Diana hit the wall.

The US team has been instructed not to engage in parading and flag waving (a common nationalistic theme in recent Olympics). My work colleague forwarded this email to a bunch of us, although he doesn't cite it's source. However, the people being quoted are the people the article says they are, so I'm guessing this is a copy/paste from somewhere:

"American athletes find themselves in extraordinary circumstances in Athens in relation to the world as we know it right now," said Mike Moran, a veteran former spokesman for the United States Olympic Committee who has been retained as a consultant to advise athletes how to behave.

"Regardless of whether there is anti-American sentiment in Athens or not, the world watches Americans a lot now in terms of how they behave and our culture. What I am trying to do with the athletes and coaches is to suggest to them that they consider how the normal things they do at an event, including the Olympics, might be viewed as confrontational or insulting or cause embarrassment."

Four years ago at the Sydney Olympics, members of the victorious American 400-meter relay team were widely condemned for strutting with the U.S. flag after their gold medal presentation. American officials, mindful of the country's precarious standing in world opinion, are desperate to avoid any repeat.

"Unfortunately, using the flag as a prop or a piece of apparel or indulging in boasting behavior is becoming part of our society in sport because every night on TV we see our athletes — professional, college or otherwise — taunting their opponents and going face-to-face with each other," Mr. Moran said. "We are trying for 17 days to break that culture.

"What I am telling the athletes is, 'Don't run over and grab a flag and take it round the track with you.' It's not business as usual for American athletes. If a Kenyan or a Russian grabs their national flag and runs round the track or holds it high over their heads, it might not be viewed as confrontational. Where we are in the world right now, an American athlete doing that might be viewed in another manner."

Americans were booed at the World Athletics Championships in Paris last year largely because of Jon Drummond's histrionic protest at his disqualification from a heat of the 100 meters. Also, at an Olympic soccer qualifying match in Mexico earlier this year, the American team was subjected to sustained razzing by a section of the crowd, including chants of "Osama, Osama!"

"We're not the favorite kid in the world right now," conceded Bill Martin, the USOC's acting president. "We are sensitive not only to the security issue, but to jingoism in its raw sense. That is why we are sending people around to educate the athletes as to the appropriate behavior."


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 11:52 AM

I'll be watching. I do every year.

..xx..e


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 12:06 PM

I fear worse things happening to them than being just booed at, I hope I'm wrong.
As far as brandishing the flag is concerned, I think the their flag means more to Americans than their national flags do to the rest. Nobody else that I know of pledges allegiance to the flag like they do in the US. I was in the US when 9/11 happened, and I was impressed by the show of flags everywhere, after it happened, and the news that stores had run out of them within days.
Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 12:10 PM

Well, I'd have to say there are really TWO nations who are way over the top about their flags, the two most nationalistic countries in the world: US and UK.


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: el ted
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 12:13 PM

I will watch the women's beach volleyball!


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 12:24 PM

Apparently female Olympic athletes' participation are included in the Olympics, in order to fulfill el ted & the US male sexual fantasies, another good reason for booing:

NEW YORK, Aug. 9 /PRNewswire/ -- While the 2004 Olympic Summer Games will offer a chance to see some of the most raw, awe-inspiring athletics and fierce competition in the world, Playboy levels the playing field with a unique showcase celebrating the sexy athleticism of the human form -- a stunning, 12-page nude pictorial in the magazine's "Women of the Olympics" September issue (on newsstands Friday, August 13).

Playboy Senior Contributing Photographer Arny Freytag selected the eight models who appear in the layout. "This pictorial is different and fun and really shows natural and physical beauty," said Freytag. "Lots of open spaces, blue skies, the chance to capture the athletes in motion -- I know Playboy readers will like this."

As Playboy's September issue hits newsstands, Olympians will be hitting the scene in the Athens Olympic Village. "One of the big misconceptions is that every athlete is 100 percent serious about being there," said Playboy cover girl Amy Acuff, an American high jumper and two-time Olympian. "A number of athletes in the Village -- people who know they don't have a chance -- are there to have a party."


SOURCE Playboy Magazine


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 12:26 PM

I can't agree, GUEST. No-one I know in the UK worries about the flag - many don't even know its proper name. The only time I've heard it being discussed is in relation to it being 'stolen' by the BNP and other such groups.

As far as booing is concerned, I hope it doesn't happen, but I won't be watching myself. Making the US athletes take any blame for US involvement in the war would be pretty silly. I would guess that the proportion of US athletes critical of Bush's agenda is roughly the same as the rest of Americans, so why should the years of effort and training they have put in suffer because of discouragement for things they have nothing to do with?


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 12:40 PM

I have a work colleague who insists that US athletes may be booed this year because of hatred for Bush and US arrogance abroad. (11 Aug 04 - 11:07 AM)

The odds that they >b>may be booed are infinite of course.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 12:47 PM

With all due respect, DMcG, ostentatious displays of the Union Jack aren't exactly unheard of, and the only true difference between the US and UK is that the US pomp and jingoist arrogance is displayed through flag waving, and UK pomp and jingoist arrogance is displayed through flag waving, displays of the Union Jack all over the tourist trade, and of course, the royals.

You must not be watching the propaganda photos beamed all around the world from London, which routinely display PLENTY of Union Jacks, despite the liberal leaning folk of the UK attempting to distance themselves from their BNP leaning brethren.

There is a very good reason why the Union Jack is known on sight, everywhere around the world, DMcG, and the reason for that is the same as the reason for the Stars and Stripes being known around the world.

Just because the British Labourites and progressives don't use the Union Jack to the same extent that the Tory governments use it doesn't make it any less visible to the world.


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 12:53 PM

"...why should the years of effort and training they have put in suffer because of discouragement for things they have nothing to do with?"

I think that is a pretty naive statement. Politics ALWAYS influences the booing at international sporting events, whether it is the Aussies booing the Americans, or the Chinese booing the Japanese for their occupations of the 1930s.

BTW, while I believe the US athletes and audience/tourists will be kept perfectly safe from terrorist attacks, I can't say I'm that confident that the audiences and other nations' athletes are quite so safe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 12:56 PM

Yet again, this thread is another example of how a GUEST is vomiting all over the Mudcat.


The US team has been instructed not to engage in parading and flag waving (a common nationalistic theme in recent Olympics)

Where did this come from? Please site a source or don't phrase it as a fact. And are you saying that the U.S. team will not be walking into the opening ceremony with the rest of the world? And why do you intimate that the parade of athletes grouped with their countries and following their flags is a negative "nationalistic" theme?

Will the athletes be booed? Why would they? People aren't stupid. They know that athletes have nothing to do with the government's actions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 01:13 PM

Naive or not, I stand by what I said, namely that I hope booing doesn't happen, because the reasons would be wrong. That's not to say it won't, simply that I hope it doesn't.

Following the standing non-troll-feeding guidance, I withdraw from the thread at this point.


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 01:18 PM

A simple google with the keywords "US athletes booed" produces these results Blackcatter.

As is the norm for you, Amerigin, and the majority of Mudcatters, you read the "From" line and spew anti-guest venom, before informing yourselves on the topic at hand. Which only makes you look all the more like the simpleton morons you are, of course. Your choice.

But do know that your perpetual fear and loathing over anon guests is really quite tiresome.


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 01:25 PM

I'm not sure what the fuss is about booing. It seems to me the civilized way to express displeasure publically. Beats the hell out of bombs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 01:34 PM

Thank you for providing links that support your statements. I appreciate that and wish that you had done that before. Why you think it is everyone else's responsibility to check your facts is beyond me, however.

There are GUESTS who are new here and haven't bothered to connect enough to put a name to their post, wether it's by becoming a member or not.

And then there are GUESTS who spew their crap just for the fun of it.

And then there are GUESTS who, while they may not be the evil offenders, they revel in the GUEST energy that nearly all long-time posters have learned to dislike and distrust.

By the way, I assumed that people were not stupid. Obviously, concering the links you've provided, they are stupid.

Oops. Sometimes it makes me wish for an all-out nuclear war since the human race seems so determined to exterminate itself and everything else on the planet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 01:48 PM

As was said previously most people don't even know the flag's correct name, as proved by Guest at 12:47.
Giok
[A simple search on Google could have given him the info!]


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 01:58 PM

Call it the Union flag or the Union Jack, you bleedin eejit. But if Union Jack is a good enough name for the monarchy to use, why the bloody hell isn't it good enough for John 'Giok' MacKenzie?

Because he is an arrogant boor.


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 02:00 PM

Deja vu!


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 02:08 PM

Gesundheit!


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: pdq
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 02:17 PM

...here is a nice site...

             UK flag


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 02:26 PM

Well, doesn't that prove you lads right then? I wonder why they have it so wrong over at the Queen's website, hmmm?


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: GUEST,Blackcatter at work
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 02:28 PM

Like anyone listens to that old wind bag. Now is she posted as a GUEST at Mudcat, she'd have real creditability.


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 02:33 PM

"Now is she posted as a GUEST at Mudcat, she'd have real creditability."

Suffering from Dumbya disease there are you, Blackcatter?


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 03:33 PM

I hope that NO country's athletes are booed.

I recall seing two runners at the end of a marathon (or maybe it was a 10000 m race) who were far ahead of the rest of the runners. One of the fellows tripped. The other fellow from a different country who was neck and neck with his fallen competitor stopped, went back, helped his opponent up. They got themselves sorted out, shook hands and finished the race. I don't remember who 'won', but I always felt I did for having that memory stay with me these many years. Who could ever boo people like that? I know I couldn't, regardless their country of origin. There is nothing I admire quite so much as courage, and if I didn't see it in its purest form that day then I have been worshiping at the wrong altar for thirty years.

Bruce M


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 03:38 PM

I think I saw old newsreel of that -- weren't those two disqualified Bruce?


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 03:49 PM

Ooh Guest, you're so tetchy sometimes, not PMT is it?
Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: GUEST,Blackcatter
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 03:51 PM

Sure, pick on me for mispelling a word. Ooh, that hurts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:05 PM

TBPL: I do not remember. I'll dig around a little on Mr Google's site and see what I can find. Back to you soon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:27 PM

TBPL: I looked but couldn't find. Read some other similar-type things. If I trip over it anytime soon, I'll post a site address. Sorry buddy.

BM


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:31 PM

No sweat, brucie. If it's true, I bet they booed they judges, hey? ;o)


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: kendall
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 10:07 PM

Lance Armstrong was booed in France. Why? because he was better than the rest? What kind of sportsmanship is that? Or did the booers think HE ordered the invasion of Iraq?
My opinion of most sports fans has never been very high, and this sort of crap doesn't raise it one bit.

There was a story about Mr. Lipton, the English tea magnate who entered his yacht in the Isle of Wight race; and he was badly outclassed by an American yacht. One of his seamen said "The Americans must be putting something in the water." To which Lipton replied, "Yes, faster boats."


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: pdq
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 10:22 PM

...Bruce Walker writes for the Christian Science Monitor, and others...




Lance Armstrong, the Olympics and the Election

August 10, 2004
------------------------------------------------------------------------
by Bruce Walker
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The contemptible treatment some French gave Lance Armstrong in his sixth victory of the Tour de France and the potential for equally bad manners by the world toward Americans in the Olympics offers the potential to place politicians like John Kerry, whose antipathy toward American exceptionalism is profound, in a well deserved terrible position.

Hatred of America seeps out, like any other poison, into all aspects of life. Ameriphobia to the post-Cold War world is as totalitarian as Judephobia was to Nazi Germany. So Canadians booed the Star Spangled Banner when an American ice hockey team played there so after we ended the democidal regime of the sociopath euphemistically called "President of Iraq."

Can these totalitarians restrain their fear, envy and fury when Americans compete in the Olympics? If they can, then it will do much to dispel the idea that international cooperation is impossible because of President Bush. The goodwill which the Olympics generally produce will produce a warm feeling going into November, which can only help President Bush.

What if the rest of the world acts "French" and treats our athletes with scorn, ridicule and abuse? At first blush, this might seem likely to hurt President Bush - he has "alienated" America from the rest of the world - but on closer inspection it will almost certainly help President Bush and put Senator Kerry in a bind.

If Ameriphobes cannot even treat our athletes, who represent no party or policy, respectfully, then it will be obvious to everyone that this hatred is of America and not of any American leader. How can President Bush expect cooperation and help from people who have a visceral dislike of America? Why should we trust such people with our security interests?

The same dynamic works regarding terrorism at the Olympics. If the Olympics take place without any significant problems with terrorism (something we should all fondly hope) then we know that the strategy of preemption is working: al-Qaida and its odious allies lack the ability to create violence where violence would do the most damage.

But assume the worst happens. Assume that something like the 1972 Olympics occurs, where Israeli athletes are the victims of calculated murder. This would reveal, more than anything since September 11, 2001, the true nature of our enemy. The totalitarian pseudo-Moslems, whose principal victims are true Moslems, would be unmasked.

Violence against American athletes would disprove all the propaganda about terrorists championing the rights of black Americans against white Americans. Athletic competition has been the most effective ladder for blacks in America to climb up the social and economic ladder and savaging international athletic competition would hurt blacks more than any other group of people.

What would Senator Kerry say about anti-American violence at the Olympics? Would he say this was caused by the policies of President Bush? If so, then just how much kowtowing would Americans expect him to make toward regimes in Damascus, Teheran and P'yongyang in order to allow our athletes to compete in future Olympics?

If Kerry admitted that the violence had no legitimate connection to President Bush, then he would also be admitting that appeasing monsters is bad policy and trying to win simultaneously world wars and popularity contests is tricky - and perhaps impossible - business. Sometimes doing what is right makes people mad.

Senator Kerry would almost certainly do nothing at all, except make mild comments and opine that he has a secret formula, which he will grace us with only if we elect him president, for stopping all this murder and mayhem. His reputation is a millionaire do-nothing would be powerfully reinforced.

President Bush, however, could do much. He could call Congress back into special session, make a major address to the nation, and ask for a declaration of war against those nations which intelligence indicated sponsored the terrorism. This declaration would pass the House of Representatives quickly and go to the Senate, where bipartisan sponsorship by Senator McCain and Senator Miller would put it prominently before the nation.

Would Democrats filibuster such a declaration? Would they allow a vote, but vote "no"? Or would they vote "yes" and then immediately say that a declaration of war was a bad idea and that we should have gone to the United Nations and that the French were the key to success, etc. ad nauseam? Or would they rally behind a strong, tough president and make the reelection of President Bush a mere formality?

Bruce Walker


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: GUEST,Olympic Shams.
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 04:48 AM

The Olympic games no longer defines an athletes true worth, have any of you dear people ever heard of DRUGS?, almost every athlete in to-days games is boosted by some form of stimulant.
I will have very little interest in the Olympics , for years now the countries that have led the medal tables are the greatest abusers of drugs, the Olympic shams would surely be a more appropiate term.


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: kendall
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 07:02 AM

I never watched them even before drugs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Odds on US getting booed at Olympics?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 09:28 AM

pdq, that article didn't have squat to do with Americans being booed. It was a politically motivated election year anti-Kerry screed, using Americans being booed as a leaping off point for bashing him.


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