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Origins: Bob Dylan's Dream

DigiTrad:
FRANKLIN THE BRAVE or LADY FRANKLIN'S LAMENT 2
LADY FRANKLIN'S LAMENT
LADY FRANKLIN'S LAMENT (4)
THE FRANKLIN EXPEDITION


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GUEST,Girl by the whirlpool 11 Aug 04 - 10:48 PM
ddw 11 Aug 04 - 11:26 PM
Malcolm Douglas 11 Aug 04 - 11:40 PM
GUEST,stephen.wright130@ntlworld.com 17 Apr 06 - 05:39 PM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Apr 06 - 06:34 PM
Danks 18 Apr 06 - 03:32 AM
Dave Hanson 18 Apr 06 - 03:37 AM
Terry K 18 Apr 06 - 06:41 AM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Apr 06 - 07:55 AM
Dave Hanson 18 Apr 06 - 08:07 AM
GUEST,Jim 18 Apr 06 - 11:08 AM
GUEST,Jim 18 Apr 06 - 11:11 AM
Peace 18 Apr 06 - 11:36 AM
JeremyC 19 Jun 07 - 12:30 PM
JeremyC 19 Jun 07 - 12:31 PM
Tradsinger 19 Jun 07 - 02:23 PM
Tradsinger 19 Jun 07 - 02:24 PM
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Subject: Bob Dylan's Dream
From: GUEST,Girl by the whirlpool
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 10:48 PM

Last night I heard a folk duo singing a song about the Franklin expedition and they used the melody of "Bob Dylan's Dream." It was an interesting story, but Dylan's words were better.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's Dream
From: ddw
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 11:26 PM

Hi GBTW,

I think what's probably happened here is that the folk duo stole the same tune Dylan did. I'm sure somebody here can come up with the song BD lifted the tune from — as he did with most of his tunes.

That's not necessarily a criticism of him — most folkies and bluesies scab tunes left, right and center. It's just an attempt to put things in perspective.

cheers,

david


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan's Dream
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 11:40 PM

Dylan used the Lord Franklin tune, which he learned in England from Martin Carthy; and said so at the time (see his sleevenotes). No mystery. The subject has come up here before.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bob Dylan's Dream
From: GUEST,stephen.wright130@ntlworld.com
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 05:39 PM

Yes, Bob Dylan's Dream is taken from Martin Carthy's Lord Franklin, and both are excellent! I can play Dylan's song quite well, but I'll be damned if I can find ANYWHERE that posts the fingerpicking pattern for the Carthy song. I'd love to learn to play it - SOMEBODY HELP!! Also, Martin Carthy 'stole' the song 'The Trees They Do Grow High' (which in fact is an irish folk song called My Bonny Boy), and it blows me away! Again, if somebody, nay, ANYBODY!, can post the chords/tuning/finger pattern for this song I would be eternally indebted.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bob Dylan's Dream
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Apr 06 - 06:34 PM

Martin Carthy includes "Lord Franklin" in his little songbook "Martin Carthy - a Life in Folk Music", published by New Punchbowl Music back in 1987.

He doesn't actually give tablature - just says "Hints for accompaniment: Use a continuous clawhammer style. This involves picking with an alternating bass with your thumb on the main beats, and filling in with notes picked by your fingers across the treble strings" - and he used standard tuning, playing in G.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bob Dylan's Dream
From: Danks
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 03:32 AM

Interestingly, Martin's guitar backing now sounds - to my ears inappropriate for a traditional song. Does he still perform the song? And, if so, does he still use the same accompaniment style i.e. clawhammer.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bob Dylan's Dream
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 03:37 AM

Gir by the whirlpool , are you just thick or can't you read, Bob Dylan learned Lord Franklin from Martin Carthy and adapted it for his own song,Bob Dylans Dream.

eric


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bob Dylan's Dream
From: Terry K
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 06:41 AM

or maybe Eric, you can't tell the time - G by the W's post was the first in the thread at 10.48 pm


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bob Dylan's Dream
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 07:55 AM

You have to watch out for the Mudcat timewarp factor, where cause frequently follows effect.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bob Dylan's Dream
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 08:07 AM

Of course I can tell the time but I don't look at it on every post FFS.

My apologies to the Girl By The Whirlpool. I am not big to own up to being wrong and making mistakes occasionally.

eric


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bob Dylan's Dream
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 11:08 AM

The word "clawhammer" is not used correctly here. Clawhammer is a method of playing the 5-string banjo which cannot be duplicated, and still be clawhammer, on an instrument that doesn't have a high tuned string below the other strings. To play clawhammer, you use the back of your fingernail to play the down-beats and the thumb, a hammer, a pull, or a slide to play the off-beats. There are people who have retuned guitars, sometimes by putting an HO guage railroad spike at the fifth fret and replcing a fifth string with .010 string and slipping it under the spike. This makes it possible to play clawhammer guitar.
   I think what Martin is refering to is what is often called Travis Picking, Cotton Picking or just plain Finger Picking. This is an alternating bass on the Down-beats and the fingers any place they're needed.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bob Dylan's Dream
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 11:11 AM

I just re-read my message and if you didn't already know what I meant, you'd probably have trouble understanding it, but I can't explain better without pictures.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bob Dylan's Dream
From: Peace
Date: 18 Apr 06 - 11:36 AM

1) Travis Picking

2) "ELISABETH COTTON, LEFT HANDED, DID NOT INVERT THE CORDS, SO SHE CREATED "COTTEN PICKING" (instead of cotton pickin') : VERY INTERESTING BECAUSE
SHE USES A THUMB/INDEX TECHNIQUE WHICH LOOKS PARTLY LIKE RENAISSANCE LUTE FINGERING. HER SONG "FREIGHT TRAIN" IS WELL KNOWN, EVEN IN EUROPE."

3) Excellent general site regarding finger picking at

www.projectsandhobbies.com/fingerpicking.htm


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bob Dylan's Dream
From: JeremyC
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 12:30 PM

Guitarists have a history of appropriating banjo terms and giving them arbitrary meanings. In "Guitar Man," the author mentions Bert Jansch describing a technique where you keep an alternating bass with your thumb while using two fingers to hit pairs of strings on the off-beats as "clawhammer."

I think Carthy's accompaniment is fine, although I find that pattern just about impossible to play consistently. My fingers are used to something a little different, and they try to revert to it any time I'm not strictly minding them. I think if he were to play it nowadays, he'd probably outline the melody in the bass and then fill with snatches of melody or counterpoint, since that's basically what he's done on most songs since the 70s or so.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bob Dylan's Dream
From: JeremyC
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 12:31 PM

Oops, I didn't realize this was a year old. :(


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bob Dylan's Dream
From: Tradsinger
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 02:23 PM

The tune is used for several other sings, e.g. Croppy Boy, Macaffery and various versions of 'A Sailor's Life'.

Tradsinger


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bob Dylan's Dream
From: Tradsinger
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 02:24 PM

Ref my last - for sings read songs! (typing too fast).


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