Musicians in U.S.A. Question.

Subject: Musicians in U.S.A. Question.
From: Pat Cooksey
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 06:23 AM

I meant to ask this when I read the Jed Marum New Orleans thread. Jed says that he played in O'Flaherty's Irish pub each night for between 5 and 8 and a half hours per night, is this the normal playing time in these establishments, surely this must wreck your voice. I have one of Jed's C.D's and can't believe he has to do this, what would the normal fee be for these marathons. Is this the pub on which Eric Bogle based his Plastic Paddy song, just curious.

All the best.

Subject: RE: Musicians in U.S.A. Question.
From: GUEST,reggie miles
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 08:28 AM

I played a six hour New Years Eve gig once. The restaurant ended up short that evening and we went home with only half our pay. Yuck!

I've recently been to a gig where the band (some friends) played what I consider a very long six hours at a bar. They weren't paid well either. Oddly, they had plenty of musicians to play the show and took turns featuring different vocalists including a few songs with me. The place was nothing special, just your below average dive. The audience, other than the musicians and their mates, was just another drunkathon crowd that could care less about what was happening on stage. Even the music was reduced to what was easiest for all the various participants to follow, typical electric blues/rock styled bar band stuff.

No, I don't think that this is the norm for gigs here in the states but I'm certain there are exceptions, as there are to any rule. Most of the shows that I've played have been between one to three 45 minute sets. It depends upon the venue and what they require.

Subject: RE: Musicians in U.S.A. Question.
From: Pat Cooksey
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 08:20 PM

Subject: RE: Musicians in U.S.A. Question.
From: Leadfingers
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 09:19 PM

We have been known to do longer than 45 minutes without a break , but ONLY when the Audience has been really receptive . Otherwise its 45 on then at least 15 minutes breather.

Subject: RE: Musicians in U.S.A. Question.
From: DonMeixner
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 10:20 PM

I have played for as long as 4 hours with no break but that was special case. Typical for my band "The Flyin' Column" in a four hour gig is 2 hours then a 20 minute break. Then we split the remaining 1 1/2 hours into two sets with another break in between.

Very often when a gig is going well and fun we'll play till we are tossed out. It is never a "Have to" situation it is a "Want to" kind of thing.

Don

Subject: RE: Musicians in U.S.A. Question.
From: PoppaGator
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 01:58 PM

Jed's two-week tenure at O'Flaherty's was unusual -- he was definitely overworked, well in excess of the original plan. The idea was for him to play every day, EITHER the late-afternoon/early-evening "happy hour" shift in the barroom (on weekdays) OR a later evening shift in another venue on the premises, the "Ballad Room." The afternoon gig was scheduled for 4:30-7 (including breaks, of course); I can't recall the evening schedule -- may 9 or 9:30 through midnight?.

Owner Danny O'Flaherty was originally supposed to play the Ballad Room on the weekday evenings (after Jed's earlier stint across the hall in the Pub), but he left town and left Jed to cover for him. So, on the weekends, Jed was playing his 2-to-3 hour happy hour set in one room, and then moving to another room to play Danny's longer evening set.

Standard gig-length in New Orleans for bands (rock/pop/jazz) is probably 3-4 hours -- how it's broken up with breaks can vary. Music rarely starts any earlier than 10 pm and usually lasts until one to one thirty, sometimes two or later. This is what I observe at the local-oriented places I generally patronize, which does NOT include the tourist traps of Bourbon Street. Musicians working there follow a more strictly regulared schedule, and many put in long hours -- especially those who "moonlight" as members of multiple bands.

There are relatively few paying gigs in this town for solo acts or acoustic/folk duos, trios, etc. The French Quarter's "other" Irish pub besides O'F's, the Kerry on Decatur Street, is one of the few such venues. Seven nights a week, they start the music at nine, and play four sets of 45 on / 15 off. On Friday and Saturday, there are two acts, 5-9 (three 45 min sets) and then the usual 9-1 (four sets). Music at the Kerry is *not* always Irish, and certainly not strictly traditional, but it is a bit closer to "folk" than the usual barroom fare -- an emphasis on vocals (often duos and trios specializing in vocal harmonies), little or no percussion (rarely a drum kit), and mostly acoustic or amplified-acoustic instruments.

Subject: RE: Musicians in U.S.A. Question.
From: Gypsy
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 04:09 PM

We generally have 3 hour gigs, with a break about 90 minutes in. Or oftener, if we need to tune. I'm not wild about hourly breaks, seems as though you get the momentum up, then stop. Doesn't work for me. And, unfortunately, have played with too many groups where that 15 minute break turns into a half hour when all is said and done........not a great way to get another job.

Subject: RE: Musicians in U.S.A. Question.
From: Podger
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 04:46 PM

Gawd you Yanks are such bloody pussies when it comes to talking abaht money.

Doancha realize yer just playin' the bosses game. Grow some bloody balls and answer the man's question. HOW MUCH DO THEY PAY?

Subject: RE: Musicians in U.S.A. Question.
From: jimmyt
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 05:09 PM

my group gets $500-$1000 per gig, 2 45 min sets, depending on where we have to go and how much setup there is. See! I am not a pussy, but I enjoy them

Subject: RE: Musicians in U.S.A. Question.
From: GUEST,reggie miles
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 05:59 PM

Oops, sawry Podger! I missed that second inquiry about fees altogether and got caught up in the other question about set length.

Just to add one more note to that question I used to play three hours straight without a break and got to enjoy the extra long set length but my friends who joined me would occasionally get frustrated at my preference. They were whimps! I played and did all of the singing. All they had to do is play along.

Now, on to that second question. It's a more difficult question to be sure, because venues vary so in the amount they are willing to spend for entertainment. These days, in this area, it seems venues care less about whether you actually can play well and seem more willing to offer the gig to the lowest bidder. So, if you play for free, you've got the gig. Anyone wishing to be gainfully employed is out of luck. I guess workin' fingers to the nubs tryin' to learn all that fancy finger pluckin' was all for naught.

There are some venues that feel compelled to charge entertainers a fee for the right to grace their stages with their talents. I personally find this practice outrageous. Others defend these actions just as vehemently as I contest them. Unless the venue in question has some extraordinary audience exposure to offer that might be a vital career steppingstone, and I've only heard of a few of these, you won't find me readily willing to go that route.

There are even venues that demand, perhaps rightly so, that your "following" fill their establishment. They want your list of email addresses for your fan base before the show so that they can send their advertising to your fans. What if you have no such list of email addresses of avid fanage? Well, you lose.

The web is certainly changing some of this. There are a great many that have accrued fame and wealth via the manipulation of their exposure on the web. I, on the other hand, have only received about three email responses from various folks who have stumbled accross my website. Contrast that response with the untold hours I've spent trying to organize and post that info and yes, it does set one to scratchin' his head and wonderin' why I bothered in the first place. I have to add that I am new at all of this www stuff and perhaps my lack of experience is the reason for my limited number of hits and responses.

The short answer to this question of "how much" is, as little as nothing, and as much as $500. for a set. Again it depends upon the venue and their particular needs and my willingness to barter my talent.

Subject: RE: Musicians in U.S.A. Question.
From: Podger
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:54 PM

Thass berra guys.

Subject: RE: Musicians in U.S.A. Question.
From: Pat Cooksey
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 09:13 PM

Tanks a lot for the responses, I forgot to ask, is it common in these
places to have a cover charge, or are the artists paid from the bar
takings.

Subject: RE: Musicians in U.S.A. Question.
From: InOBU
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 06:53 AM

Hi Pat: In New York there is a lot of competition from sessiuns, but, I try to get at least $100 per band member, and then expenses, such as the van to move the PA etc. - usually another 100... though I usually come up shorting myself in favor of band mates. As to how long it takes to destroy one's voice, I intersperce Ceili tunes and songs, but one should be able to sing for a huge long time, especially if you are not shouting over your band - use monitors and give some thought to the mix if you are straining your voice, and, as with Pete Seegar's advice, don't strain for thouse high notes.
Also, the ban on smoking in bars in New York has made singing long hours in pub gigs much less strain on the throat. For those who say it is a right to smoke in a bar, think of those of us who have to be there to earn a living, we have a right or two as well... (not much thread creap - it speaks to strain on the voice, but fell free to start another thread if this becomes a big issue...)
Good luck,
Larry