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A Martin or a Gibson?

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Georgiansilver 17 Aug 04 - 05:45 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 17 Aug 04 - 06:18 PM
Wolfgang 17 Aug 04 - 06:21 PM
Georgiansilver 17 Aug 04 - 06:22 PM
The Fooles Troupe 17 Aug 04 - 06:34 PM
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The Fooles Troupe 17 Aug 04 - 06:42 PM
Little Hawk 17 Aug 04 - 07:00 PM
s6k 17 Aug 04 - 07:02 PM
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Big Al Whittle 02 Oct 05 - 04:06 PM
Strollin' Johnny 03 Oct 05 - 12:26 PM
PoppaGator 31 Oct 05 - 06:08 PM
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Little Hawk 31 Oct 05 - 06:22 PM
DougR 01 Nov 05 - 06:13 PM
Lepus Rex 01 Nov 05 - 08:41 PM
Bobert 01 Nov 05 - 09:45 PM
number 6 01 Nov 05 - 09:49 PM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 01 Nov 05 - 11:08 PM
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Richard Bridge 02 Nov 05 - 02:50 AM
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Stephen L. Rich 07 Nov 05 - 02:20 AM
Cluin 07 Nov 05 - 07:27 PM
number 6 07 Nov 05 - 08:54 PM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 07 Nov 05 - 09:57 PM
number 6 07 Nov 05 - 10:49 PM
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Subject: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 05:45 PM

Now we all know a Martin to be a first Class guitar and a Gibson too but a Martin/Gibson sounds sort of schitzophrenic...what do you think????


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 06:18 PM

I have three Martins and two Gibsons, but I'm most often found playing a Santa Cruz.

By the way, Santa Cruz is a sometime contributor to the 'Cat, usually around Christmastime when he and his assistant, Elf Dude, sow discontent among the Christmas Tavern threads and the like. They are a surly drunken pair and are usually up to nothing vaguely resembling good.

I wouldn't say that gives them common ground with Martin Gibson, but if you would like to draw such a conclusion, I won't try to stop you.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 06:21 PM

I think that the schitsm of Christianity is the beginning of all evil.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 06:22 PM

LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 06:34 PM

It's just all part of Globalisation and the takeover process, mate!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 06:35 PM

I think that the schitsm of Christianity is the beginning of all evil.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 06:42 PM

The Invention of Religion is the Root of all Evil.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 07:00 PM

Uh-uh. The invention of money (by bankers) is at the root of all evil. The root of all evil is fear and one of its nastier byproducts: greed.

It is the love of money which lies behind virtually every destructive initiative taken on the planet. Religion is a small player in that equation, unless you recognize that the ruling religion worldwide is the worship of financial power.

Religious fanatics kill a few thousand people. The search for limitless profit by a powerful few kills millions and impoverishes billions and ruins Nature while so doing. It is the greatest unholy thing that has ever scourged the face of this planet. It is the nemesis of life, human and otherwise.

And money isn't real. It is an arbitrary invention. A fiction. An imagined thing that everyone agrees to believe in. Sounds like a primitive religion to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: s6k
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 07:02 PM

depends if you want an electric or an acoustic

this is a martin/gibson thread not a religion thred!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 07:04 PM

That's true. Okay...I heard of this crazy guy, a country player, who got a Takemine guitar, mainly for the pickup. He wanted it to be more of a "country" guitar, so he altered the head stock (crudely) so that it said "Gibson" on it, not Takemine!

How's that?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 07:08 PM

A good friend of mine, baited his hook and cast it with the line into a lake full of fish but caught nothing all day. Sad to say that others do the same thing....


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 07:16 PM

Was yon line attached to a fishing pole? If not, I think I know what his problem was.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: s6k
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 09:41 PM

if acoustic... id get a martin... mark knopfler plays martins on his solo albums for the more folk type songs.

gibson reign supreme at the electric side with the les paul, SG, etc, i think a really expensive martin is far better than a gibson acoustic though


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 09:43 PM

I like most Martins better than most Gibsons. Gibsons sound too twangy to my ears.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Once Famous
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 09:47 PM

The standard of bluegrass is Martin.

The standard of country is Gibson.

The standard of folk music is Stella, the mid-60s versions with the painted on pickguards.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 03:45 AM

I only ever had one Martin . It was a D35 and it sounded good in the shop. But it wouldn't stay in tune.Perhaps I am a complete fool, but I don't need an out of tune guitar to underline the point in public.

Mr Yamaha for me since then. I never have had tuning problems with Yamahas. although I've bought most models - none have let me down on that point.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: HRH ted of hull
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 03:45 AM

No idea, because I play nylon strung flamenco models. BUT I was recently given a Gibson Sonex 180 custom electric, which is currently stood propped up against a wall like an evil prescence!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 04:34 AM

I'm not a musician (as anyone who's heard me sing or play the washboard & kazoo will attest!) but I've always liked the LOOK of Gibson gutars. I hate the Fender pegs-on-on-side electric look but like the Les Paul or SG look. I've noted that many "pop" musos seem to prefer Gibson acoustics when they play unplugged...but St Lonnie of Donegan was an early proponent of Martins in the UK so I'd probably say Martin for the folkies and Gibson and National Steel for the bluesmen.
As for me, I'll stick with the Hotpoint TwinTub (with sunburst finish)for stadium work and the Columbus Washboard Co Maidrite when unplugged.

RtS
(never allowing ignorance to stand in the way of an opinion)


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: bumstump
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 04:37 AM

What you want is my overpriced j160E pop model, or I will scream and scream until I am sick.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 06:49 AM

HEY BUMSTUMP. HOW MANY THREADS DO YOU NEED TO SELL A CRAPPY GUITAR?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Grab
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 07:51 AM

LH and Foolstroupe, you're both wrong - the invention of beetles is the root of all weevil...

Graham.

PS. If it's acoustic, I wouldn't want either - Lowden for me. Sounds better, and looks better too. Why have a soft'un when you can have a Lowden?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 08:02 AM

Grab, I've got a Martin J-40 and a Lowden O-25. Both look and sound equally good, not a hair between them, they're just 'different' (which is, of course, the point of having two different makes!). Wouldn't let either of them go.
SJ :)0


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Mooh
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 08:43 AM

Never owned a Martin but played lots and loved most of them. Had but one Gibson, completely refurbished it and sold it at a slight profit in order to buy food, unemployment not being as glamorous as it sounds. Will gladly accept donations of guitars on a trial or permanent basis, and they don't have to be Gartins or Mibsons. Cash is good too, to keep my guitars in the fashion they're accustomed to.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: The Beast of Farlington
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 09:22 AM

I have a Yamaha - yah boo sucks


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: ToulouseCruise
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 09:29 AM

Steve or Mel? Well, Mr Martin is funnier but Mr Gibson is a better actor.

I'll just go for Angelina Jolie and call it a draw.


Brian.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 10:58 AM

I swore off Mel Gibson movies after "Signs". Even more than that I swore off M.Night Shyamalan movies. Most folkies prefer Martins to Gibsons, but country players love Gibsons. I guess it's that twangy sound they're after. Gibsons tend to be rugged too, which is handy if you play in a place that has barroom brawls and people throwing beer bottles at the stage and stuff like that. Stella's are even better for such places, but Kent are the ultimate cos they have a neck like a telephone pole.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Once Famous
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 11:28 AM

I have found that musicians or ones who think they are knock Martin or Gibson guitars because:

A) they can't afford one and will try to brag all day that their Yamaha or nato back & sides Jasmine is just as good.

B) really are pretty limited in their playing talents anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Cluin
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 11:57 AM

Personally, I've found Martins to be twangier-sounding (hey look Ma, I made up a new word!) than Gibsons on the average. Gibsons generally are a sweeter sounding guitar.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 12:27 PM

they... brag all day that their Yamaha... is just as good.

As noted above, I own Martins and Gibsons as well as several other quality instruments and will say uneqivocally that my friend Robert's Yamaha sounds as good and plays as well as any of them. On the other hand, I've owned a few Yamahas myself and have not been all that pleased with them so his guitar may be an exceptional example.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 01:19 PM

I've got a $700 Yamaha and a $3,000 Martin. I actually like the Yamaha just a tad better. I've played $5,000 guitars that are a bit better than either one of them, but I don't really have any reason to spend that much on another guitar at this point. I mean, I could, but why would I? I already have 2 great guitars that are good enough to satisfy me.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Once Famous
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 02:38 PM

It's a question of what you will "settle" for. The materials and craftsmenship are like night and day, however I will admit that there can be a very occasional exception.

Hand made out of selected materials vs. cookie cutter machine made with materials of appropriately priced quality.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 02:38 PM

I've about decided that perception of quality is very subjective. For instance, Cluin believes that Gibson is sweeter than Martin- and I tend to believe the opposite. Martin, to me, has a very identifiable sound that I experience as 'sweet'. Gibson, to me, has a shallower, brighter sound.

Buddy Tabor has fairly severe GAS. As a general thing, he prefers his Gibsons and has definite preferences for recording. He also has Martins, including a small sweet-voiced treasure that he likes but does not love. I think there is a good reason for it; Buddy's voice, while not actually harsh, is supported better by the Gibsons.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: kendall
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 03:44 PM

You can not beat a top quality Martin, but I will put my Taylor 810 up against all but the very best Martin.And, for the difference in price I'll take the Taylor every time. And, it's not because I can't afford a Martin either, I've had every well known brand there is including a Gibson J-45 (1955) a Martin D-28, a Mossman and a Guild D-50. All fine instruments but I prefer the Taylor.
Now, for an investment, a good Martin has no equal, they will always be worth more than you paid for them.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST,LilyFestre
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 03:50 PM

I am a beginning guitar player and have myself a nice little Ibanez guitar. I have never played or held either of the guitars you are talking about. For the moment, as long as I have a guitar that fits me (my husband's guitar is just too dang big!), I'm happy. :)

Michelle


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Once Famous
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 03:53 PM

That's fine Guest, LilyFestre. but as you progress from a beginner, you will find that a better guitar will enhance your playing. both Martin and Gibson do make smaller body models.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Cluin
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 05:49 PM

Played a smaller bodied Taylor once in Steve's Music in Ottawa and fell instantly in love with it. If I had the bucks at the time I would have bought it then and there.

In general (again) I've found Martins to be louder and fuller sounding than Gibsons of the same size, but my preference is for a guitar to sing along with and that's where the Gibsons shine for me. I I was playing primarily acoustic guitar instrumentals or in a bluegrass band, I'd go with a Martin dreadnought all the way.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 06:38 PM

Is it fair to say that Martins -- big "D"s, anyway -- boom out more bass, while Gibsons tend to emphasize the treble a bit more?

My nice old D-18 is a bit bottom-heavy, but I don't know if it fits any general rule.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: kendall
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 07:45 PM

My old Gibson J-45 was very bassy. The J body is bigger than the D body


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST,Kent Ovation
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 05:27 PM

And why is no one extolling the virtues of my 2 favorites?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST,Maton Guild
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 08:13 PM

Or mine?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST,Neither
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 08:13 PM

They're just names.

There are better guitars out there


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 08:20 PM

I'd rather play a duck than an Ovation. Or a Kent either.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 08:22 PM

Do they call it 'Ovation' because it is shaped like an egg?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 08:48 PM

I've had three Martins: a steel-string 00-18, and two classics, a 00-18-G and a 00-28-G. All three were very nice instruments.

But when it comes to classics, which I favor, Martins, as good as they are, can't measure up to those by European luthiers. I've owned several guitars over the years, all Spanish-made classics or flamencos. I now own a José Oribé concert classic (actually, Oribé operates out of California, but his quality is up there with the best of the Spanish luthiers) and an Arcangel Fernandez flamenco (made in Madrid and now a collectors' item). I also own two travel guitars, both "Go" guitars, one nylon-string and one steel-string.

Pending another GAS attack, I'm in good shape.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 09:53 PM

Don

Martins are not famous for classical guitars. They are most famous for D size cannons.

But you probably order your corned beef sandwiches on white bread with mayonaise, also.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Cluin
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 10:51 PM

Willie's "Trigger" is a Martin classical.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 11:06 PM

I reckon it all depends on what sound you want and what kinda music you play. When I started playing seriously in the 60's I was playin' a lot of Dylan-ish songs and bought my D-18 new because a buddy told me they were great. Well, this particular guitar has served me well thru a musical journey of folks, country, blue grass and curently, prewar blues.

I also own other instruments but I like the bass that I can get out of the Martin. Nothin' like it fir bass and tone...

Of course, it isn't a mainstay in my blues playin' since I bought a decent playing reso off ebay...

But my vote: Martin.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 11:47 PM

We've got a '64 Gibson J45, a Seagull Artist Series flame maple cutaway, a '74 Framus Texan, and a resonator of unknown origin. They're all good for different things. JtS uses the Gibson for blues and Rolling Stones type stuff. JtS says the Seagull is better for finger picking, and it has a sweeter, more bell-like tone than the Gibson, so it sounds better with softer and/or more mellow songs. People seem to like the Framus a lot. JtS says it's twangy and good for western and cowboy style songs. The resonator hasn't gotten much use yet, but it's good and funky and we like it for that reason.

Of course, of all of the instruments we have, I like my little Italian accordion with the musette tuning best ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 11:55 PM

I have a job I hate but it let me buy a Martin that I love.
I have a Custom D-40 with Adirondack spruce and Brazilian Rosewood and there is nothing sweeter this side of heaven (except my wife).I've had 2 Gibsons,an Epiphone and still have two other Martins but none of them can touch this one.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 01:38 PM

MG, Martins aren't famous for their classics now, but there was a time (about the time you were in diapers) when, if you couldn't afford to shuck out $700 to $1,000 for a Herman Hauser, a José Ramirez, or a Manuel Velazquez, you could count on a Martin classic to be a darn nice instrument. My first classic was a Martin 00-28-G, with a spruce soundboard, beautiful Brazilian rosewood back and sides, and an ebony fingerboard. $225 with hard-shell case (all prices have changed a bit since). Very good sound and nice to play. My Oribé is a better instrument by far, but I often wish I still had the Martin. It was a very good "living-room guitar."

D-Models seem to be favored by bluegrass and country musicians, and with good reason. If you're playing in, say, a bluegrass group, they work well for rhythm or laying down a strong bass. But they're kind of specialized:   bass heavy and light in the trebles. I wouldn't want to use one for accompanying solo voice, which is what I do most of the time.

Thanks for the reminder. I haven't had a corned beef sandwich in a long time. White bread and mayonnaise? Don't be ridiculous!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 01:42 PM

I've got a little Yamaha Classical.

It sounds more Willie Nelson than Segovia in my hands, but I like it a lot.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Midchuck
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 01:50 PM

I have just acquired a Froggy Bottom.

Anyone know of a proctologist with experience in Amphibian Extraction?

Peter.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 02:28 PM

If Richard Nixon was still alive, I'd suggest you call him for advice on that.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 04:04 PM

Ohmigod, Jack the sailor and I have something in common!

I also have an older Yamaha classical that when strummed in the right tempo in E, sounds just like Willie's in Blue Eyes Crying in the Rain.

I really don't play it much, though.

Have a:

1971 Martin D-18
1969 Gibson J45
1964 Gibson LG-0
1963 Harmony Sovereign
1962 Gibson LG-3


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 04:25 PM

The Martin we have is Sigma Dreadnaught 12 string, which JtS tells me is made somewhere in Asia. He says it's not a great guitar, but it plays nicely.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 04:35 PM

Sigma is to Martin what Epiphone is to Gibson.

It's a Martin wannabee. Difference in wood quality and assembled somewhere in Asia for 50 cents and hour.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 05:03 PM

I'd log out and post a message as "Stella National," but it's too much trouble.

Never played, or much wanted, a Stella, but I know that the recording companies provided them for use by many of the great blues players, figuring they were better instruments than whatever the guys owned themselves.

I've never had enough disposable income to suffer from "G.A.S.," and my 1969 Martin D-18 (which I got new for about $450 upon college graduation) has always been enough for me. Well, almost always; the *one* f guitar I've truly coveted as a second instrument has always been a National steel.

Also -- it's been mentioned briefly already by "GUEST, Maton Guild" -- that big round-bodied Guild is a really nice guitar, with a bog bright tone. Don't know about any other Guild models, but they produced at least one real winner.

Never heard of a Maton, though -- care to elaborate?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 05:38 PM

Nice guitars Martin G.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 05:42 PM

poppaGator

I follow the collectible guitar market. Your '69 D18 depending on condtion, is probably worth $1800-2400 today.

What other guitar brand but perhaps a Gibson, could you have a better investment in?

Could the reason for this be...............quality?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 06:25 PM

Thanks, MG, for those numbers. I've known for quite a while that my guitar was valuable, and have sometimes thought of getting an appraisal, but no one is selling it anytime soon -- not while I'm alive -- so why bother?

It might bear mentioning that my D-18 was made early enough in '69 to feature the old Brazilian rosewood back and sides. Martin had to switch to some other slightly-less-desirable variety of rosewood later that year.

My pickguard started to curl up a year or so ago; I've hit it with a hair dryer and peeled it off, and am about to install a replacement. I'm thinking of ordering a tortoiseshell pickguard (from Martin) instead of the original black, just for the hell of it, along with a set of tortoise-and-white bridge pins. Would this reduce the value? (Such "changes" wouldn't hardly be permanent, of course.)

What about having an under-the-bridge pickup installed? On the one hand, it would be an "improivement"; on the other hand, it makes the instrument less "original" from a collectors-item point of view. Any opinions? (I'll do it anyway if and when I can afford it.)


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 07:42 PM

A friend of ours has a Maton. The're made in Australia. They're nice guitars, if the one our friend has is any indication.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: kendall
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 07:56 PM

I wouldn't throw a Larrivee out on a stormy night.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 08:20 PM

PappaGator,

Believe it or not, yer pick gurad my be covered under warrenty. Over the years I've had lots of stuff fixed on my old D-18 and didn't cost me a dime. I had the neck reset two years ago and Martin paid for it. They even paid to have a new bridge made and to repair a small crack in thre rosewood back...

...and, BTW, Martin is now selling a electric pickups that sound really hot. I had one installed in mine last year. The cord plugs into a hole in the strap button so it's out of the way... And, I'm here to say that it is one fine pickup...

As fir the National steel, hey, the Regal's can be had on ebay fir about $400 including shipping and they sound great. I play with the Archie Edwards Blues Foundation and there are no shortage of National owners and mine sounds as good as any of them and at over 5 feet, looks identical to the National.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Bernard
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 08:37 PM

I'm happy with my three Yamahas, all circa 1971 - FG160 and FG200 six-strings, and FG260 twelve-string. I've had the 160 and 260 from new, and never felt the need to buy anything more expensive, though a Martin would probably have the 'edge' for me - the Yamahas, technically, are copies!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Bernard
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 08:47 PM

Sorry... I can't count! I've also got a cheap F340 Yamaha, which I've had for around two years... I got it because I was fed up with people wanting to borrow at singarounds, but it's no big deal with the cheapo!


I bought an under-bridge pickup, and the sound dramatically improved after I fitted it - which was the opposite of what I had expected.


When fitting the transducer I discovered that it would fit perfectly if I carefully gouged the wood out of the bridge until I reached the 'top' of the body... it seems that the bridge insert then made better contact with the body, making the sound 'meatier'...!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 10:00 PM

PoppaGator

Your guitar might be covered under warranty if you are the original owner and of course can prove it with a bill of sale with the serial number.

But, I am a bit perplexed.

The D18 was only built with mahogany back and sides, never to my knowledge with rosewood, brazilian or otherwise. One of the definitve books on the subject, The Vintage Guitar price guide, published yearly by Vintage Guitar magazine substantiates this. Now, if you are talking rosewood, you might really have a D-28, which DOES list the 1969 model as being the last year for Brazilian rosewood, with 1970 switching to Indian Rosewood. The guide lists THIS guitar in exc condition rangin from $3500 to $4500!

Look in that baby with a flashlight toward the lower bout. It will say D-18 or D-28, one or the other. Replace the pickguard with an original and keep everything about it as original as possible. Do not drill any holes. This is a vintage instrument, and yes, it's integrity is in your hands.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 11:30 PM

Since this is not a prank thread, I owned and played on a late 40's Harmony, a 53 Gibson, a 70's Fender - yup and it was a superb jumbo - later hands on several guitars. Liked one Aria, wouldv'e bought and cherished a repro classic Washburn, but ended up with a Martin DM.

So for me there is no such thing as eiter or, more like they are all great.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 12:48 AM

MG:

My mistake about the rosewood; it's definitely an 18, not a 28, and it's from early '69.

I read about Martin's rosewood switch in mid '69 and made an invalid assumption that it applied to my guitar. Also, obviously, I am no expert on recognizing the difference between mahogany and rosewood.

I've been without a pickguard for a while. As some of you undoubtedly already know, Martin used to affix their pickguards before applying the lacquer finish. Since sometime in the 80s, they've changed to the practice most other makers have always used, which is to finish the top wood first and then glue on the pickguard. So, when the pickguard comes off an older Martin like mine, it leaves a patch of slightly recessed raw unfinished wood. (On other guitars, peeling off a pickguard will expose a lighter-colored patch of wood, outlined by a "tan line," under a smooth overall finish.)

When the pickguard started to curl, peeling away from the surface around the edges, I learned about www.frets.com here at Mudcat, and exchanged a few messages with the guy Frank at that site, who is a prominent California luthier/repairman.

At first, he contended that the only thing to do would be to apply lacquer to the "bald spot" in several layers, building up the newly fininshed area to the exact height of the surrounding original finish, and only then to apply the self-adhesive replacement pickguard. A qualified repair guy could do this, of course, or I could try it myself.

After a frustrating unsuccessful search for the proper lacquer, I wrote back and he said, well -- "for now" -- I could stick the pickguard right where the old one came off, adhering it to the raw wood. That's what I plan to do, soon.

A replacement pickguard from Martin only costs $3.50, but their minimum internet order amount is $25. There are other replacement parts available, but I am by no means a do-it-yourselfer; I wouldn't trust myself to fool with the nut, bridge, saddle, etc. (No one has to warn me not to drill any holes in my Martin -- there's NO danger of anything like that happening!)

My original bridge pins are pretty chewed up after 35 years, so I could add a set of them to my order, bumping my total up another five and a half bucks, but I'd still have to buy something else to reach the $25 minimum -- probably a copy of "Rising Up Singing" for $17+. I don't want to buy a CFMartin shirt or baseball cap, or any of the other books they have for sale (mostly pictures of fancy guitars made for celebrities). They don't compete with their retailers by selling strings via mail order -- if they did, I'd make up my $25 minimum order by buying strings.

Frank at frets.com did recommend having the job redone "right," with a new lacquer finish under the pickguard, at some later date -- presumably, when I have the money, time, and inclination to hand the guitar over to an expert for pickup installation and/or general set-up/tune-up.

As far as the possibility of warranty coverage is concerned, I have long since lost my original receipt. For years -- at least 15 or 20 -- I carried a card in my wallet that came with the guitar, showing the serial number and something else: I had that document much longer than any receipt or bill of sale, but it's gone by now, too (along with that wallet). So, I don't think I can pull off a warranty request.

I guess you answered my question that a non-original-color pickguard would devalue the instrument, but I know now how easily one can be removed (with a hair dryer and a plastic puttyknife). I may go with the tortoiseshell pickguard (a Martin part, of course, the exact size and shape of the original black piece) for now, just to be different; it would look nice, slightly unique, especially if I color-coordinate the bridge pins (which would be easily and cheaply done). Like I said, I'm not selling any time soon. I would be sure that my heirs knew to switch back to basic black before putting it up for bids.

My other question is how installation of a pickup would affect the value. If and when I do that, my decision will be based entirely upon my needs/desires *as a player*, but I'd still like to know the financial fallout.

Bobert, it's very interesting to learn of a reasonably priced alternative to the National Steel, but when I have $400 to spend on an instrument, I'm afraid I'll have to put it into maintaining and upgrading my one-and-only. Maybe the *next* available $400 after that...


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 02:38 AM

MG, one more thing:

I see that your very nice collection includes three Gibsons but only one Martin. Any particular reason?

For example, do you feel that Gibson produces a wider variety of different-sounding acoustic guitars while one Martin is pretty much like any other? Or is it a price-differential issue?

If you include electrics, of course, Gibson *does* offer a wide variety of distinctive axes, much unlike Martin.

Years ago, I had a friend who owned an electric Martin, the only one I ever saw. Very strange to see. It had the same headstock as a D-model acoustic, which made for a very weird appearance -- literally and figuratively "square" -- on an electric guitar. I don't remember the body of the guitar nearly as clearly: I think it was a hollowbody, somewhat similar to a Telecaster. The color was a fairly dismal shade of brown.

Can't comment on the sound -- the owner, like myself, was a strictly acoustic player with no real knowledge of how to coax appropriate sounds out of an electric. We may not even have had an amp to play it through, there in his college dorm room. I remember how it looked, but not how it sounded.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST,Fred Miller
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 07:52 PM

I haven't owned a lot of Martins, but from shopping they seem to have some range of sound, to my ear, more so than Taylors. Some people call this uneven quality, but I take it more as different qualities. Sometimes I even like a dead-string tone. It depends.

I own a very very very rare Martin-Gibson that sounds nice enough, until I try to play political songs, then the tone gets sharp and twangy.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: van lingle
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 08:12 AM

Midchuck, I don't think you need a specialist. When I drop a pick in my Froggy B I just turn it upside down and shake it. vl


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 08:46 AM

Little known fact about warrenties, Pappa-G, and Martin. Some of their sales are on record based on yer specific serial nummer. If not, they still have been known to issue a "Certicate of Ownership" if you write an affidit telling where you bought it and when. I keep my certificate in the safety deposit box... If you have a lutherer who is also an authorized Martin reapinperson, he should be able to assist you getting the certificate retroactively there fore saving you some bucks. You still have to pay for frets but and bridge pins but that's about it, other than obvious damage 'caused by you or yer cat...

That oughtta free up 'nuff dough to get the Regal I was tellin' you about...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 09:42 AM

Fred Miller ...you're a true mudcat treasure. I take every opportunity I can to pay you a compliment when I run across a post by you. I am never disappointed. As this character whose name escapes me now used to say, "Don't let the bastards grind ya down!"

This could easily devolve into a slam-thread a la "Are Gibsons/Martins Shite" ...so at the risk of encouraging what I am trying to avoid:

Taylor guitars have a distinct sound which isn't pleasing to my ear. This is my personal preference. These guys (Tacoma guitars) make a good guitar IMO, for the money. Pretty sound to my ear and prices are competitive with Martin guitars ($1000-$3000 USD).


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 02:44 AM

Thanks for the tip, Bobert. I would certainly be able to supply my serial number and the name of the (long-defunct) music store where it was purchased, so I might as well try for a Certificate of Ownership and the lifetime warranty that comes with it.

I dunno if I'd buy any guitar, even a "cheap" $400 Regal, via Ebay or from any mail-order source. I'd have to see it in person and put my hands on it first. Although, I suppose, you could just make sure you're able to return it and get your money back if you wish to do so for ANY reason.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 11:38 PM

Poppagator

The 3-1 ratio of Gibsons vs. Martins has no real meaning. The LG-3 was my first decent guitar and for years the only one I used and is basically in semi-retirement. The LG-0 was found way too cheap in an antique mall some years ago and couldn't be passed up.

My main 2 instruments are the D-18 and J45. But sometimes, that Harmony Sovereign, which was masterfully worked on by a luthier I know, can sometimes sound better than anything.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST,fred miller
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 11:54 PM

well thank you so much, dear Guest. I really do appreciate it. If you knew HOW much you'd get a restraining order. Are you the same that once accused me of opaque logic? Or now, after several years, can I count 2 people who've liked my comments? You can lie if I can count more, probably only Max would know, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't care, he has a baby, and other interests.
    You could be, like, this whole big group of people somewhere, in some country, an island, with just one computer, who have to vote and ratify their remarks by commitee. My demographic. That would be really cool. Keep it in mind, if you like. At the very least, I'm pretty sure you aren't just me, re-reading my own lines the next morning, and slapping my knee, kind of LIKING myself, because I don't (like myself, that is, especially the next morning) and because I don't know how to make those links to things.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 12:30 AM

Yes, one and the same: opaque logic. Sort of like my friend who related an incident: she was on a date, having dinner. Her companion, hoping to pay her a compliment, offers, "You know, you don't look 47." She was offended. She said, "What is wrong with 47?"

I get the same sort of vibe from you. Not purposely "thinking out of the box," because you don't know what a box is.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 12:57 AM

Wow! I'm another one, Fred, so that makes three.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST,fred miller
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 10:18 AM

thanks. But that's 3, including me, I think.

Guest, Do you tune up a fifth with the small Tacoma? I got the impression you didn't like too high and bright a sound. Or is it rounder-toned than Taylors? I kind of like my daughter's big baby Taylor for some things. It's kind of thin, but I think a bright mandolinish tone works behing my voice often. And having had a Gibson casualty, it's nice to have a guitar around that you don't have to worry too much about.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 12:01 PM

Fred, sorry ...I don't understand your question about tuning up a fifth with a small Tacoma. I don't own one, just heard one once at a concert in the hands of an (unknown) fellow who knew how to play, and I was duly impressed. I also think they are pretty guitars, esthetically speaking. I really liked the tone, and that is all I'm basing my comments on, having not ever played one myself.

You are right, I don't like the "high and bright" sound very much. I like "warm and rich" better. That is, if any of these descriptive words have any meaning for anyone else but me.

Neil Young said he liked dead strings on his Martin because new strings sounded too bright. I suppose his acoustic recordings describes the sound I like also.   

My uncle has a baby Taylor that sounds pretty good. My cousin has a bigger Taylor (sorry, don't know the model) that he's had for years and just last month I picked it up and plucked around on it. No denying it has a good feel, good tone - just not the tone I would shell out thousands of dollars for. Diff'rent strokes.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST,fred miller
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 03:17 PM

But they're only a few hundred, and not trying too hard. I wouldn't put even med strings on one, the way their built. The Tacoma papoose is often tuned like a standard guitar capoed at the fifth fret.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST,fred miller
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 04:23 PM

Um. Which is a fourth, not a fifth.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST,Bigfitter
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 01:04 PM

I love them bouth. Rased on bouth, dad wouldn't aloud anything elc.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 01:38 PM

I prefer Martins.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST,Georgiansilver
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 02:46 PM

My old thread again? How are you Martin Gibson anyway? How are you Martin? Best wishes, Mike.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 04:06 PM

yes some of us have nothing but good wishes for you. all the best Martin


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 03 Oct 05 - 12:26 PM

"Dad wouldn't allow anything else" - including school, apparently. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 31 Oct 05 - 06:08 PM

What's going on here? Is GUEST Bigfitter the fartist formerly known as Martin Gibson, and should this fact somehow have been obvious? Am I missing something?

If so, yeah, I'll give a shout-out to MG myself...Hey there buddy!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST,Slim Eric
Date: 31 Oct 05 - 06:10 PM

Yep where are ya Martin? We kinda miss ya son.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Oct 05 - 06:22 PM

You're just looking on the wrong thread, that's all.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: DougR
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 06:13 PM

MG: things have been awfully quiet since you went away. I'm sure there will be lots of folks excited about the possibility of your returnint. :>)

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 08:41 PM

Hmm? Oh, please. Martin Gibson is so fucking last year. You blew your one-and-only wad with your big bad goodbye thread, dude. We're over you, Marty.

Well, most of us are. Doug seems oddly excited...

---Lepus Rex


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 09:45 PM

Ahhhhh, as fir dead strings.... As far as I'm concerned, the deader the better...

Yeah, Iwas down in Mississippi last month workin' on a CD and I shipped tow reso's with "so-called" dead strings UPS and carried on my "so-called" dead stringed Martin with me on the plane.... Din'd even tune them down since I usually play it in a severely Bobertized tunin'.... (ahhhh, fir those with courage, it's EBEBBE... can wail on it...)

But, I'm proud to say that all the dead strings held up thru the 33 songs I recorded over 3 days... I was most proud of my 1934 Dobro tenor resonator... That little guitar not only held up but with 2 year old strings prolly provided me with the signiture cut of the session, "Preachin' Blues"...

But, no matter, Martins still rule (in most cases)...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: number 6
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 09:49 PM

What's best ... a Martin or a Gibson?

neither.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 11:08 PM

Well, Martins and Gibson I still say are the choice for Nashville's finest overall.

Taylors are just plain bland, have no heritage or soul, are made by machine instead of by hand, are not a decent rhythm instrument, look stupid on the models without a pickguard and in general are mostly played by losers.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: number 6
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 11:52 PM

Jeeeesh .. MG.

I guess I better pull my socks up and get on with it.

Anyone have a Martin around for sale ... cheap?

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Cluin
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 01:03 AM

"Taylors are... mostly played by losers."

Yeah, losers like Will Ackerman, Gregg Allman, Martin Barre, Beck, Adrian Belew, Stephen Bishop, Clint Black, Karla Bonoff, Michelle Branch, Garth Brooks, Jackson Browne, Jimmy Buffett, Glen Campbell, Mary Chapin Carpenter, Kenny Chesney, Bill Clinton, Marc Cohn, Judy Collins, Shawn Colvin, Dan Crary, David Crosby, Charlie Daniels, Iris DeMent, Neil Diamond, Ranger Doug, Duane Eddy, The Edge, Dave Edmunds, Don Edwards, Ferron, John Fogerty, Peter Frampton, Richie Furay, Beppe Gambetta, Vince Gill, David Gilmour, Pat Green, Nanci Griffith, Sammy Hagar, Merle Haggard, Daryl Hall, John Hiatt, Chris Hillman, Alan Jackson, Jewel, Rickie Lee Jones, Pat Kirtley, Mark Knopfler, Leo Kottke, Lenny Kravitz, Greg Lake, Alex Lifeson, Lisa Loeb, Kenny Loggins, Patty Loveless, Jeff Lynne, Dougie MacLean, Kathy Mattea, Dave Matthews, Tim McGraw, Sarah McLachlan, Zan McLeod, Tim Mensy, Jim Messina, Steve Miller, Liz Phair, Prince, Bonnie Raitt, Harvey Reid, Kate Rusby, Richie Sambora, Joe Satriani, Seal, Ron Sexsmith, Carly Simon, J.D. Souther, Tim Sparks, Rick Springfield, Billy Squier, Paul Stanley, Al Stewart, John Stewart, Stephen Stills, Doug Stone, Andy Summers, James Taylor, Pam Tillis, Artie Traum, Happy Traum, Travis Tritt, Shania Twain, Steve Vai, Suzanne Vega, Clay Walker, Joe Walsh, Roger Whittaker, David Wilcox, Lucinda Williams, Robin and Linda Williams, Robin Williamson, Nancy Wilson, Peter Yarrow, Neil Young, among others...


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 01:10 AM

Stradaivarus anyone?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 02:50 AM

100, thank you


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: kendall
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 08:08 AM

Touche' MG


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 12:12 PM

Add Kendall Morse to the list of Taylor users. I didn't play it at the Getaway but it does have a wonderful sound when Kendall plays it. Nah, that can't be due to the Taylor - that has got to be his own particular touch. *G*


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 12:30 PM

George Austin, who lives in the Seattle area, is a financial advisor by trade (I think), but on his off time he's one of the best fingerpickers in the country. He used to play Martins, but now he has a couple of Taylors. Great sounding instruments played by a real fingerpicking virtuoso.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: number 6
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 12:34 PM

Taylors ... great guitars. Happy with mine.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: kendall
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 08:40 PM

Ebbie, believe me, it is the Taylor, not me! Thanks anyway, you just made my day.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Big Mick
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 08:48 PM

MG shows once again that he is a wannabe. I would not argue that Martins, taken as a whole, are a wonderful guitar and the standard by which factory builts are measured. Gibson,by virtue of its heritage and quality standard, certainly deserves its reputation. To suggest, however, that only losers play Taylor is about as stupid a statement as can be made. Real players understand that we are in a golden age of guitar lutherie. Collings, Larrivee, and others all deliver a sound and playability standard to rival any of the old names. At the top of that list is Taylor. They are delivering an instrument which has strong bass, balance across the strings, actions to die for, and quality materials.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Nov 05 - 12:43 AM

Kendall, as your SO may have told you, I recorded her singing with you playing backup. Your Taylor sounds wonderful and the playing is masterful.

pssst: I will be sending a copy to her.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Cluin
Date: 03 Nov 05 - 12:45 AM

Didn't dream up nuthin'... pulled `em off the Taylor site.

And Big Mick is bang on about this being a golden age for guitar building (it's just unfortunate the quality of wood isn't as abundant and available as it was 60-70 years ago). If I had lots of bucks and could only own one guitar, I'd go to an independent luthier for a custom machine.

If I had millions of bucks, I'd own lots of Gibsons, Martins, Taylors, Larrivees, Guilds, Santa Cruzes, Washburns, Nationals, D'Aquistos, Gretschs, Collings's, Breedloves, Lowdens, Benedettos, Seagulls, Yamahas, Froggy Bottoms, Ovations, et al, plus some by indy luthiers like Laskin, Manzer, Cumpiano, Reid, etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Nov 05 - 02:53 AM

all a bit subjective anyway, isn't it?

willie nelson is obviously happy with that guitar with a hole in it. all kinds of people play all kinds of strange guitars.

its a bit like saying a maserati is the best car.

try guitars til you find one you like. personally I've owned gibsons, rickies, martins etc. I play yamahas and the variax at present, but I wouldn't describe myself as settled.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: mooman
Date: 03 Nov 05 - 03:30 AM

I'm settled at the moment (not a Martin or Gibson nor even a "name" guitar, although I've owned both the former and a number of other leading makes) and would echo entirely what weelittledrummer said.

There is no "best", it's what suits (and pleases) you personally for the style(s) of music you play.

If I ever had the money I'd commission a Manzer ("Au Naturel" archtop model).

Peace

moo


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Nov 05 - 09:10 AM

When I get the bucks together, I will have Grit Laskin build me the one that I will die with.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: number 6
Date: 03 Nov 05 - 09:15 AM

I'm still happy with my Taylor. Even like my humble China made Blueridge.

Pretty well all guitars are half decent and setup right ... it's the player that commands them to sing.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Pied Piper
Date: 03 Nov 05 - 09:38 AM

Good God, a thread in which MG is only mildly offensive.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Nov 05 - 11:59 AM

he speaks no more than the truth, we're all losers if we don't play Martins.

I bet Prince Charles and Tony Blair play Martins. Its a brilliant investment - the only reason you wouldn't have one is if you're a bit of a loser - something which I freely admit to. In the great race of life - I stumbled in the paddock.

al


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST,Ray Walston
Date: 03 Nov 05 - 12:36 PM

I played a Martian once.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 03 Nov 05 - 01:33 PM

There are so many great jobs for different instuments to do . This is why many of us have more then one guitar . Staying with what I thought the reason for this thread was looking at WHY we buy a Gibson or a Martin is more interesting to me..
             If your in a field listening to a bluegrass band you understand why CF Martin invented what he called the Dreidnaught . A big guitar with a lot of range to hold a band together (or for Gene Autry on a mike on top of a horse in a feid ) . If your playing folksyer fingerpicking I find the dreadnaught gives to many layers of sound to work for the gendre so I use concert shaped guitars that cut through more . I love single O doubleOO and Treble OOO mahagany instruments. They work for me .(Rosewood was better for my old friend Lui Collins) So a smaller concert Martin works for folk finger picking and English stuff.
             THe L OO Gibson has a wonderful bright Charactoristic that dose very very well for slide work and sounds out well at sessions . Very bright and clear with a lot of sound . Its not just louder but adds a demention in a place a Martin can get lost . Less mid rang then the MArtin but more top .
               The concert size Taylor with a cutaway is a wonderful gigging guitar(different wood different jobs ) THere is a good reason why you see so many Taylors ON STAGE . Nothing sounds better going into a pa (without addition of a mike that is ) Its a very easy guitar to sound great on stage .. Hence the list above . I would say in all fairness that those same proffesionals listed in large numbers above playing Taylors very likly used meny different guitars in the studio to add different dementions to their songs and tunes .

                Great guitars fit different jobs .
                            All the bnest , Guy


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Nov 05 - 02:32 PM

Good rundown, Guy. That pretty well says it.

As I mention above, I play a classic myself, but then I use it primarily for vocal accompaniment. It works particularly well for the kind of songs I generally do. I also play some classic (Sor, Tárrega, a little Bach) with an occasional lapse into flamenco, so I'm better off with a nylon-string all the way around.

A classic guitar may not be "traditional" in some circles, e.g., bluegrass, but I've sat in with bluegrass groups, and my nylon-string punched it out as well as any steel-string Martin. Good classics have a lot of penetration and come through well. Willie Nelson's old Martin (obviously vintage and really beat up) has one helluva sound!

If Martin Gibson has a 1971 D-18, he's probably got a pretty good instrument. But the only losers are those who are so closed-minded that they refuse to even consider possible alternatives and insist on dumping on everyone who isn't as closed-minded as they are.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Nov 05 - 10:33 PM

Okay, as I have said, I love my old Martin... I think it sounds better than anything Iz played anywhere.... Yeah, like old Martins, it'll work ya' but, hey, I like the full sound...

Well, at the Getaway, I had acouple chances to play Kendall's Taylor and will have to admit that as fir playability, it prolly comes out on top but fir tone??? I think that my Martin wins out... Not by a bunch mind you but enuff...

But if you tale palyability and tone and mix 'um together, hey, I'd have to say they come out 'bout equal.... Sniff, never thought I'd say that but that's the way I call it....

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: kendall
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 12:47 PM

Bobert, then why did you not break out that famous Martin so I could play it? You never did let me get my hands on it.

If those who play Taylors are wannabees and losers, then what is a guy who gave away a 1955 Gibson J-45, and sold a damn good Martin HD 28 when he bought a 1983 Taylor 810?

The people who build Martin guitars are not magicians, so the think they are something that no other builder can equal or surpass is silly. They are all made of the same material, and Martin does not have a monopoly on the best materials.

This whole argument is silly.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 01:23 PM

"This whole argument is silly"

Exactly. Why we insist on playing the "my guitar can beat up your guitar" game is beyond me. We should be past that outdated notion by now. Anyone you plays it is a victim of testosterone poisioning. I notice that women are too smart to be involved in this nonsense. Grow up.

Besides - if you had just had a chance to play my Collings OM2HG you would have realised how silly you all are. It RULES DUDE !!! Any other conclusion would just gag a maggot.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: kendall
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 08:59 AM

Dream on Dude. LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 08:21 AM

if Gibson and Martin merged they could be

Margibs or Gibmars or Gibtins - - snogirams - BignoseRamtin

just thought I'd share that


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: number 6
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 08:59 AM

Granted the tonal qualities of a Martin (specifically D-28) are best suited for Bluegrass ... but for Jazz riffs, they just don't cut it ... Taylors are perfect for accoustic jazz playing by far.

six


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 09:20 AM

Kendall,

I was waitin' fir you to ask, Capt... Heck, I din't want to insult ya' 'er nuthin' 'er give you a rash 'er nuthin'... Plus, I had it in the BobertBlues tunin' (EBEBBE) with 6 month old strings on it fir that extra earthy tone... If I had let you play it in that tunin' with them strings youi mighta gottan a danged rash, fir sure...

But you heared it the mini-concert so you can't say it belongs on the wood pile, that's fir sure...

Next year, I'll sho nuff let you play it and get a piccure of you playin' it to hang on the wall over the pudder...

Sho nuff will..

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: kendall
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 01:28 PM

I'll thicken my callouses for the torture to come LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 02:20 AM

A Martin or a Gibson?

I don't know. Hmmmmmmmm. A Dean Martin or a Henry Gibson? That's a tough call.

Stephen Lee


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 07:27 PM

Didn't matter. Back when they were on TV, we only had one channel on the box anyway. It's not like there was a choice.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: number 6
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 08:54 PM

True Cluin ... good point.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 09:57 PM

SIX, don't you think a better guitar for jazz would be one of those big old archtops like a Gibson L5? Or a Super400? Archtop accoustics are much more known as jazz guitars, I have always believed?


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: number 6
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 10:49 PM

I most certainly do agree with you on those old Gibson archtops!

But for jazz the tone of a Taylor is more appropriate than a Martin, as a Martin is more appropriate for Bluegrass.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: katydaley
Date: 07 Nov 05 - 11:00 PM

I play country and folk, some blues but mostly Bluegrass. I find my Gibson better suited to country and blues and wish I had a louder, richer tone for Bluegrass. A friend asked me to play his Martin Saturday night at a festival to see if I wanted to buy it. I thought the sound was not quite as rich as my Gibson's. But I find that my Gibson is difficult to keep in tune and the action is not as close as I'd like. Maybe it just needs a tuneup? katy


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Wesley S
Date: 08 Nov 05 - 01:50 PM

Try taking it to a good repairperson and having it set up. It could make a world of difference. What model of Gibson and Martin are we talking about ? They're not all created equal.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST,Cobell
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 12:57 PM

My Brother bought the Martin 16GTR a few months back, it's darn fine instrument, not see a Gibson acoustic for a long time though, I'm not really that keen on them, however, you can not beat a 2nd hand British Hand Made acoustic like a Fylde, I have one,and I'll take a pepsi challange with it against ANY Martin or Gibson any day of the week no sweat! in fact, I was asked to exchange it for a near new brand new Martin on a straight swap last September, it took me less than a second to refuse the offer, the guy was gutted,,and still is!


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST,Martin gibson
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 02:36 PM

Yes, Wesley S. is right. Not all martins or gibson are applicable. I have both a J45 which sounds great for country and a D18 which sounds great for just about anything.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: number 6
Date: 09 Nov 05 - 02:51 PM

One of the finest guitars I have played in the last year was a Gibson (workingman's) WM45. An absolutely impressive axe.

Cobell ... I hope some day to try out a Fylde ... I have heard vey good reports on them.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jul 06 - 11:02 PM

From what I read (and after half way down I got bored) none of you really truly know your ass from a hole in the ground. I have a 1947 HD-28 worth over $10,000, but I don't brag on it becuase it's worth an ass load but becuase it is the boomiest, tennist, bell like, sweetest toned guitar I ever heard it is an everyday player. I also own a 1963 Gibson J-45 that has very simmalar tone just a little more mellow and muddled. Ask any true expert, for bluegrass the bright booming martins are king. For mellow blues,country,singer songwriter stuff it's Gibson all the way.

P.S. I own a 1971 Rosewood Loprinzi Dreadnought which I love for the great tone and personal sentament, a 1973 Yamaha FG 12-string took down to a 6 string slot head, just for kicks and 2 yamaha OOO, but the yamaha's no matter how set up are nothing compartivley. Also Ovation sucks ass, Taylors are for pussies, Takamine sucks, Stella's sucked backed then and still do now, and my personal opinion is that european luthiers would sell better in the united states if they would do more traditional instruments


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 03:42 AM

more traditional? what do you mean? English guitar makers are very diverse.

in fact all guitar makers sre very variable and capable of the odd Friday afternoon job. I've owned most guitars in my time - Gibsons - martins, an English made Rob Armstrong, a Rickenbacker, yamaha LLD's, etc

I played an Ovation baladeer for many years. But for the last six years or so I have been enthralled by the yamaha CPX range. I have two good ones - a cpx8 with a spruce top, and cpx15cm - with a cedar top.

neither of them classic guitars, both have laminate sides.....however they both have that 'wow!' factor whenever other guitarists pick them up. just something about the tone and responsiveness.

I don't think martins are overpriced, but mine didn't stay long on the staff.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 04:26 AM

Easy way to tell one's ass from a hole in the ground:

If it has a hole in it, it's your ass. A hole in the ground, being a hole, cannot possibly have a hole in it. Think about it. A hole in a hole? Makes no sense.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 03:30 PM

An old friend of mine, Bernie Martin, made and played many instruments. One that I never heard him play, but that hung on the wall of his studio was a guitar made from the fender of an old Ford. He called it his Martin fender guitar.

Personally, I prefer Martins for flat picking and Gibsons for finger picking.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: number 6
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 04:08 PM

I'd like to get a hold of a Baldwin GB 66 Deluxe.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 04:10 PM

Me too.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Martin or a Gibson?
From: van lingle
Date: 18 Jul 06 - 05:28 PM

Hey Belligerent A**hole Guest with the '47 HD28,
Sorry to inform you that Martin didn't even make that model until the late 70's or early 80's and stopped using herringbone on their instruments in '46 I believe and didn't do so again until they introduced the HD-28.
And just when it seemed that you did know your ass from...vl


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