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BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?

CarolC 21 Aug 04 - 03:07 PM
Peace 21 Aug 04 - 03:16 PM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Aug 04 - 03:28 PM
GUEST 21 Aug 04 - 04:03 PM
Amos 21 Aug 04 - 04:04 PM
Ellenpoly 21 Aug 04 - 04:10 PM
Peace 21 Aug 04 - 04:15 PM
Amos 21 Aug 04 - 04:41 PM
Pogo 21 Aug 04 - 04:45 PM
wysiwyg 21 Aug 04 - 04:49 PM
Stilly River Sage 21 Aug 04 - 04:52 PM
Peace 21 Aug 04 - 04:54 PM
wysiwyg 21 Aug 04 - 04:56 PM
Amos 21 Aug 04 - 04:56 PM
GUEST,fred miller 21 Aug 04 - 05:27 PM
pdq 21 Aug 04 - 07:39 PM
The Shambles 21 Aug 04 - 08:10 PM
GUEST 21 Aug 04 - 11:12 PM
GUEST 21 Aug 04 - 11:24 PM
JennyO 22 Aug 04 - 12:09 AM
The Fooles Troupe 22 Aug 04 - 12:10 AM
The Fooles Troupe 22 Aug 04 - 12:48 AM
GUEST,fred miller 22 Aug 04 - 12:52 AM
The Fooles Troupe 22 Aug 04 - 01:40 AM
Stilly River Sage 22 Aug 04 - 02:07 AM
GUEST,Jon 22 Aug 04 - 04:49 AM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Aug 04 - 06:24 AM
The Shambles 22 Aug 04 - 06:32 AM
The Shambles 22 Aug 04 - 06:40 AM
Big Al Whittle 22 Aug 04 - 06:50 AM
GUEST,Jon 22 Aug 04 - 07:21 AM
GUEST 22 Aug 04 - 12:07 PM
Little Hawk 22 Aug 04 - 12:12 PM
GUEST 22 Aug 04 - 12:18 PM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Aug 04 - 12:26 PM
The Shambles 22 Aug 04 - 12:33 PM
GUEST,*daylia* 22 Aug 04 - 12:43 PM
Devilmaster 22 Aug 04 - 12:43 PM
GUEST 22 Aug 04 - 12:59 PM
GUEST 22 Aug 04 - 01:17 PM
GUEST,Victor Meldrew. 22 Aug 04 - 01:29 PM
GUEST,Jon 22 Aug 04 - 01:31 PM
GUEST,Friend of Treehouse, Amos, and Victor Meldre 22 Aug 04 - 01:49 PM
Peace 22 Aug 04 - 02:07 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 22 Aug 04 - 06:53 PM
Pogo 22 Aug 04 - 07:23 PM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Aug 04 - 07:50 PM
Cluin 22 Aug 04 - 07:59 PM
The Shambles 22 Aug 04 - 08:05 PM
GUEST,Fred Miller 22 Aug 04 - 08:10 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 03:07 PM

101

Thank you very much.


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: Peace
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 03:16 PM

"I'm getting a tremendous amount of satisfaction bitch slapping those of you who so blood [sic] well deserve it"

Bitch slapping, a term with which I am not familiar, connotes that the user may really enjoy abusing physical strength--likely with women, and certainly with people of a more diminuitive stature. You must be lots of fun to hand around with. Usually I have to pay for that treatment.


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 03:28 PM

Since this thread appears to be the first time anyone has posted as "GUEST,Treehouse", and there seems to be no member who has the Mudcat name Treehouse, it may be a little naive to take this person at face value.

In other words, this thread could well be a slightly more subtle than usual exercise in stirring. "Shooting fish in a barrel" is the term sometimes used.


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 04:03 PM

Someone on here has used that term in the past a few times....bitch slap...

I remembered it because it is so horrible and graphic. Maybe it is a common term?


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: Amos
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 04:04 PM

100. Thanks. Neener neener.


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 04:10 PM

Ah, Amos....always the voice of reason


;-D


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: Peace
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 04:15 PM

GUEST:

The originator of the thread has used it a few times. Disgusting, actually.


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: Amos
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 04:41 PM

It is a common slang term -- it describes the wrath of infuriated females being taken out on other females. At least I think that is what it implies -- the kind of caterwauling screaming and slapping that only two women over the edge can manufacture....


A


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: Pogo
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 04:45 PM

Send 'em to the Steel Cage Match thread and let 'em fight it out. I need more ratings :OI


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 04:49 PM

That's funny, I thought it was a euphemism for "d**k-slap," which I understood to denote a female cheek stricken by an item of male anatomy. I guess it would translate (?!?!?!?!?) to labeling her a bitch. "His" bitch-- discipline a pimp would deliver to one of "his" girls.

Correct me if I'm wrong. :~) But watch how you do it. :~)

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 04:52 PM

I haven't heard the term "bitch slap" but I have used "dope slap"--referring to what Moe used to use on Larry and Curly. Or Oliver Hardy used to do to Stan Laurel (though Hardy was gentler about it than Moe was).

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: Peace
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 04:54 PM

bitchslap: From the stereotype of a pimp's demeaning and abusive treatment of his prostitutes, whom he refers to as his bitches. Those who use the term typically see themselves as being superior and as being in a situation that calls for them to mete out harsh, abrupt, and abusive treatment for what they perceive as stupid or disrespectful behavior--or simply when they think such treatment is needed to remind someone of her inferior status.

Example: You talk back to me one more time, and I'll bitchslap you.

The above is from SlangSite.com


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 04:56 PM

"Bitch-slap" is becoming a frequently-heard expression on TV, etc., but if it does mean what I think it means-- it would be yet another case of white/mainstream media "borrowing" from the black community without knowing what they're doing. Then I say the joke is on them for not having a clue how vulgar they're being! :~)

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: Amos
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 04:56 PM

Well, I guess it is emerging from different circles, and the definition you grasp instinctively depends on the circles you travel in. I for example, obviously associate with angry and frustrated women; SRS seems to come from a world of moronically funny heros; while WYSIWYG comes from a world of penis-wielding pimps. Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer choice!

A


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: GUEST,fred miller
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 05:27 PM


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: pdq
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 07:39 PM

If we go with the thread title and the past eight or so posts, we can safely say:
      
"What to do about obnoxious MC members? Bitchslap 'em, eh?"


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 08:10 PM

This is the only unmoderated forum I come to, hence the frustration level of those of us who know what we're missing here, when things get more puerile than usual.

If this person considers this now to be an unmoderated forum and no one (especially our unknown numbers of uknown volunteer moderators) posts to corrects them - does it mean that it now is an unmoderated forum?


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 11:12 PM

After the shit that people have been talking on each other around this place, you people are worried about someone using the term "bitch slap"? Please.

This is about the rough equivalent of the usual Mudcat drivel. The object is to win, and in order to win, you must conform. Just like Mudcat.

I'm sure most of you will be champs at this baby in no time.


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 11:24 PM

For those who prefer musical content there is this. Keep clinking to play "Bitch slap a rock star".


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: JennyO
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 12:09 AM

This is about the rough equivalent of the usual Mudcat drivel.

Ah yes GUEST, but YOU knew where to find it ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 12:10 AM

"Or has she lost her cookie somehow?"

ROFL!!!!

Sorry....


"My tolerance for this sight" - well, the correct spelling is 'SITE', but in the context, [the sight of what is happening here on these threads] - makes the comment ironically funny. But only to those who have the neural connections to see that, and I am not being intentionally insulting to the poster, it's just the way my mind works, when it does...

Some of the 'nonsense' (or BS-titled) threads, start out as just 'Shite' - it might even be in the title, but sometimes they get sidetracked into very serious discussion and even include songs.

Remember CREATIVITY strikes in many forms, -'opportunity knocks but once' - some songs of mine have been inspired by a passing comment in the BS stuff - Pot Noodles Can't Be Beat was one that my Muse kicked me in the bum with unexpectedly - or one could say 'hit me over the head with a pillow containing the rocks of a song' - inspired by a BS thread.

That song may not be to your personal taste (I'm addressing EVERYBODY), but where did you get your licence to decide that my particular form of creativity is not approved for consumption by anyone else?

:-)

Robin


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 12:48 AM

Further thought has recalled to mind something relevant.

Back in the 1970's I was involved in Computing Study at University, ending up on Computing Advisory Committees, and President of the Local Student Computing Club (started in the mainframe days and which went defunct when Personal Computers became the big thing!).

The Computing Centre System Programmers & the Centre Manager had a relevant word of wisdom.

When the first multi-player games (created originally as Doctoral Thesis subject materials!) began to circulate on the mainframes, everybody, including especially the system programmers just HAD to spend hours getting thru them. You didn't get such jobs if you were intellectually deficient, by the way, so they were smart cookies!

There was only one thing to be done to deal with the situation. Yes, people were spending work time playing! But the only workable managerial response was...

"They will get sick of it in time and get back to work. Ranting and raving will only piss them off and the cleverest ones will get a job elsewhere, and we'll be left with the less clever ones. Leave them alone!"


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: GUEST,fred miller
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 12:52 AM

pathetic attempts to be funny. I think that's certainly redundant. There's a local doctor here who is one of the leaders in exploring the healing properties of laughter, but I think it would be as significant to study the pathology of comedy.

Treehouse, there's just something about your position that makes no sense at all. Several things, really, and they all point to an unflattering characterization of your ability to think socially. Just one thing--you talk about people in power here, as if it were by some sort of... what? It's fantastically absurd. You can only influence people by example and by your own sort of participation, not by decree. And you can't really slap anybody, just make them think less of you and your input. And since you're anonymously posting that adds up to achieving less than nothing. This way won't work, and no amount of self-proclaimed high-mindedness will, would, or could. Surely you see that now. It's an autistic fantasy of social life. It's ridiculously self-centered.

And you're missing a very deep vein of humour by dismissing it out of hand. Some stupid things only really become funny by persisting against all sense and reason. It's only at the zillionth invocation of a moronic theme that it becomes somehow hilarious. A friend of mine was in a sociology class which examined jokes, and I suggested they banter a theme like, say, Is this going to be on the test? all term. It's stupid, and annoying, but. By the end it will be funny. This phenomenon seems to tie in to Henri Bergson's theory of comedy as Something mechanical inlaid upon the human, and also has interesting connection to Sanford Meisner's acting pedagogy. Say--You like my tiara? I like your tiara--back and forth with a partner until something happens.

What good is announcing you possess a fine sense of humour, instead of offering it? You seem to have it, but without meaning it.


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 01:40 AM

Fred,
this 'repeating nonsense until it becomes funny' was used by Spike Milligan in some of his first Goon Shows on the BBC Radio back in the 1950's.

The classic example from one of the early shows was a character who would stick his head in a door and shout 'More Coal!' - that character did nothing else. The first time, there was silence. By the third time people were laughing. By the end of the show they were laughing uproariously, almost expecting it to be thrown in. This was Spike's '3 times and it's funny rule'. It has been documented in print in comic histories, especially those on British Humour, and the show and him especially, if you want to track it down.

Another classic from the same show was 'He's fallen in the water!'

Those who make the most noise about how wonderful their sense of humour is without publicly sharing the output results of their creative sense of humour, often are observed to have the least or narrowest sense of humour.

"Empty vessels make most sound."


Robin


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 02:07 AM

Monty Python also benefitted from repetition. "Spam" comes to mind at the moment. . .

This phenomenon seems to tie in to Henri Bergson's theory of comedy as Something mechanical inlaid upon the human, and also has interesting connection to Sanford Meisner's acting pedagogy. Say--You like my tiara? I like your tiara--back and forth with a partner until something happens.

I know we've discussed the Smothers Brothers before (as I have in other venues--they address more than musical topics). This puts me in mind of

"I see by your outfit that you are a cowboy,
You see by my outfit that I'm a cowboy, too.
We see by our outfits that we are both cowboys;
If you get an outfit you can be a cowboy, too.

More or less how the song goes. They play on a well known song and repeat "outfit" and "cowboy" enough to make them uproariously funny.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 04:49 AM

Shambles,

If this person considers this now to be an unmoderated forum and no one (especially our unknown numbers of uknown volunteer moderators) posts to corrects them - does it mean that it now is an unmoderated forum?

When was "then"? I'm sure there would have been a "then" before new facilites were added but moderation has existed here in all the time I've been around, ie. since 1999. There have also been hidden "Joe Clones" in all this time.

As far as I can make out, during the period between then and now, there has been no significant change in policy. All that has happened is that the system has had newer and more visible (and useful IMO) enhancements such as the ability to close threads and to rename thread titles. I'd also suggest that the FAQ made knowledge that posts could be deleted more open.

In fact overall, I would suggest the whole approach is more, not less, open now than it was when I first joined - quite the opposite to what you suggest. I would further suggest that your arguments are based on what I call a "Mudcat myth". It always seemed sort of cosy to portray Mudcat as unmoderated but Mudcat was what I would describe as a very mildly moderated forum in 1999 and it remains so in 2004. Your problem appears to me to be that it took you until 2004 to realise this.


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 06:24 AM

If this person considers this now to be an unmoderated forum and no one (especially our unknown numbers of unknown volunteer moderators) posts to corrects them - does it mean that it now is an unmoderated forum?(The Shambles).

I've just read this three times, and I still can't make it out too well. I think "this person" here means "The Shambles", as in the Kai Lung stories, but I'm not sure. (I recommend Kai Lung to people who prefer their humour dry and gentle.)


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 06:32 AM

As far as I can make out, during the period between then and now, there has been no significant change in policy. All that has happened is that the system has had newer and more visible (and useful IMO) enhancements such as the ability to close threads and to rename thread titles. I'd also suggest that the FAQ made knowledge that posts could be deleted more open.

Jon I was making the simple point that despite what you say about the FAQ - there are still many people who are under the impression that this is an unmoderated site. And that still none of our volunteers have posted to correct this impression and to give a true picture of the extent of this imposed editing and to change the 'cloud- cookoo land' that many long term posters are under and the myth that many insist on trying to defend.

There is the 'spin' but truth is that the list of contributions that will receive routine imposed editing is long, getting even longer and threatens to become endless. And all done as a reaction,with questionable effect, in making any difference to the problem, it is supposed to deal with.

These reasons can all be summed up as that personal judgement will be made in secret, on the worth of the contribution and reactive editing action will be automatically be imposed (and defended) in secret, whatever the nature or level of the supposed offence.

This censorship, which can better better described as the single summary punishment, will be imposed without consultation with other volunters and without the prior knowledge of the contributor, often at the request of fellow posters who are encouraged to post (now also in secret) to do this.

This one punishment will be automatically imposed for offences which range from a (supposed) personal attack to just being unlucky enough to have posted to an entire thread that is deleted or closed because it is easier to do this than for the vounteer to make the effort or take the time just to delete the 'offending' few postings.

It is a time for more imagination and honesty and for a far better example to be set. Especially by those who volunteer to judge the worth of other's contributions and who wish to shape our forum by imposed editing action based on this judgement, rather than by the encouragement of our forum to be shaped by setting an example of positive contributions.


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 06:40 AM

For Kevin's benefit, the person referred (who I quoted but did not name) to was Guest Treehouse.

Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: The Shambles - PM
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 08:10 PM

This is the only unmoderated forum I come to, hence the frustration level of those of us who know what we're missing here, when things get more puerile than usual.

If this person considers this now to be an unmoderated forum and no one (especially our unknown numbers of uknown volunteer moderators) posts to corrects them - does it mean that it now is an unmoderated forum?


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 06:50 AM

look I admit I'm the obnoxious one. I come from an obnoxious family. I never really had a chance in life to be anything except obnoxious. I live in an obnoxious house with my obnoxious dog. There are no redeeming factors in my obnoxiousness.

It was me doing it all the time to get attention.

Jaysus..... what a thread!


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 07:21 AM

OK Shambles, Ill try to be as objective as possible and as am speaking as an ex Joe Clone (one who resigned but not for reasons of editorial policy).

My own preference was to be known as a Joe Clone but I can't argue with those who want to remain "hidden" or with Joe's "protection". In my experience, nothing underhanded goes on in terms of actions from the clones and ultimately, it is Joe, not Max, who tends to end up carrying the can for any editorial decisions.

Hidden editors, are not uncommon either. I did read you comment on the BBC boards in the help forum saying you at least knew who the mods were. Nothing could be further from the truth. We know who the hosts for the boards are but there is a team (I think called the mod squad) that nobody knows anything about. Posts have dropped off the BBC F&A board without Mel (host) knowing anything about them.

The official line with Joe Clones is that they do not delete posts. This is not quite true as I for one would delete a clear case, eg. a thread opening with a link to a porn site, knowing it would have to go and knowing such an action would be supported from above. Overall though, Joe would be alerted rather than a Clone making judgement themselves.

That brings me on to the close thread option which did not exist in my time and one possible application of it. To understand this, you have to understand the nature of Mudcat and some MC members. I, like you, are familiar with unmoderated places like uk.music.folk and we both know that people over there do not get excited over things like my porn example. They are controled enough not to react but over here it is guaranteed that some will have to express their shock and horror, etc. and in no time a long thread has developed...

You may wonder why I said a possible application of closing a thread in relation to this but if you bear in mind that Clones are not supposed to delete posts and Joe is not around for 24/7 consultation, it gives another and perhaps better option. The thread can in theory be put on hold to prevent further trouble and later be re-opened if appropriate.

Where I would be inclined to agree with you, is that if moderation is to exist (and I am not going to argue it should or shouldn't or if it does the appropriate level - those sort of things make a site different to another and contribute towards "uniqueness") I do believe that everyone should be clear as to the rules (and no that doesn't mean a need to know who applies them) and that what rules exist are applied equally.

My personal opinion is that MC perhaps could improve a little more towards those goals but overall plays pretty straight on this.


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 12:07 PM

If people believe the forum to be unmoderated it must be so, sort of like the prayer chain working to cure all ills.

If the moderation is done in secrecy, there must be a good reason, we just can't be privy to it.

If this is a moderated site, what exactly, is being done to moderate the immoderate behavior that is so disruptive to thread continuity and alienating to people like Jerry Rasmussen and Bobert, well liked members of the forum who started complaining about the anti-social behavior before Treehouse did?

Could it be that everyone attacks Treehouse (an easy target) not Bobert and Jerry, because Treehouse can be easily attacked and dismissed, while Bobert can't be?

This thread, with a guest as the originator, is now well over 100 posts attacking the guest, but with rare exceptions like Amos, not actually addressing the issue Treehouse raised.

Compare this to the Can You Say Acrimony thread which only garnered 23 posts.

So why are the members here ignoring the same concerns expressed by Treehouse, being expressed by the likes of Jerry Rasmussen and Bobert?

Could it be the ease with which the automatic Mudcat lemming response, which causes all of you leap off the 'attack the guest' cliff in such huge numbers? That you use the 'attack the guest' ploy as a means of avoiding discussions of subject matter that concerns you, and makes you feel uncomfortable with the way you are behaving? So once the lemming express gets rolling, the tactic for refusing to discuss ultimately results in the whole subject discussion being shouted down and drowned out, so you can comfortably settle back down into your dysfunctional ways?

Here is what Bobert had to say about all this just a few days ago:

Subject: RE: BS: Can You Say Acrimony?
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 11:36 PM

Well, Jerry, I couldn't have said it better.

Yeah, I've been known to get up on a soapbox now and then but I'd like to think when I get to discussin' issues (okay, debating them, if you will...) that I do it with respect for those on the other side. I mean, I cannot fathom either DougR or Teribus resorting to the base-ness of what I've seen here at Mudcat over the last month or two.

It has gotten so bad that even well thought out threads get hyjacked by the same few folks who just want to find another thread to attack one another. It doesn't make me want to contribute.

Throw in the "slam book" threads that I was asking about and Mudcat has just about been reduced to somethin' akin to TV wrestling. It is gettin' dumbed down at breakneck speed and I'm finding less and less joy in coming here...

So, Fred Miller, et al, how about you address Bobert's concerns, instead of attacking Treehouse?

And really, what is anti-social about commenting upon people's anti-social behavior? Why is the anti-social behavior being so rigorously defended by so many here? Is a community of anti-social misfits the goal here?


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 12:12 PM

Nice weather out there today. I think I'll get some sun.


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 12:18 PM

And avoid the tough questions, right Little Hawk? You seem to be one of those who led the lemming charge over the cliff in this thread, so it comes as no surprise when someone holds members' feet to the fire, you start squirming.


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 12:26 PM

I get a feeling that "GUEST,Treehouse" may be the same as that last GUEST.


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 12:33 PM

The official line with Joe Clones is that they do not delete posts. This is not quite true as I for one would delete a clear case, eg. a thread opening with a link to a porn site, knowing it would have to go and knowing such an action would be supported from above. Overall though, Joe would be alerted rather than a Clone making judgement themselves.

If it is not true, then the whole official line is based on a lie and this lie just encourages many who do not wish the forum well, to constantly point this lie out. What is Joe, if not another poster who has volunteered to judge and impose this judgement upon other posters? I feel that the official line should be what is actually happening and this then can always be defended and if someone finds their post has gone and asks why their contribution has been deleted, the reasons for this can be explained.

I have demonstrated and evidenced so many occasions when this offical line was not the case and all of these have always been defended and nothing has changed. Rather than accepting that nothing is perfect and everything can be improved, those holding a different view and who write suggesting improvements, are subject to their motives being questioned and to personal abuse from these volunteers. Not, I feel the best example to give if one of the main objectives is meant to be the prevention of such things.

But can this single measure actually work, when the post appears and the 'damage' has aleady been done? Do we not as individual posters have all the editing tools we require? Do we have to open the forum at all? Do we have to open threads that from their title are clearly not to our tastes. Do we have to read every post even if we have opened the thread? Having found something that is not to our taste, Do we have to make such a fuss about it that other posters, who would have not even seen it - are alerted to it?

There will be no shortage of folk vounteering to judge and impose this reactive judgement upon the worth of other's postings. This example just encourages posters to feel as if it is their duty to request editing to be imposed upon others. My concern is less that some form of editing takes place but that there is thought to be only one type of editing - i.e. the imposition deletion of posts or the deletion or closure of entire threads. Whatever the nature of the 'offence', this is imposed by volunteers upon the contributions of those Max has invited to contribute.

Can at least it be accepted that to find one's invited contribution has been subject to imposed editing - always remains A BIG THING to the individual poster. This general and routine imposition is just not in the spirit of the Mudcat, especially when the posters only 'offence' is to post to a entire thread that is deleted. Is it really too much to ask that, when and where it is possible, (as it very often is) to consult the poster before any judgment and imposed editing action is taken on their contribution, that this attempt be made?

That judgement and imposition based on this judgement is used sparingly and always as a last resort? And that posters are encouraged by the good example being set, to shape our forum by their postive contributions and not by being encouraged to request editing to be imposed upon the posts of others?


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: GUEST,*daylia*
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 12:43 PM

I suspect LH just wants to enjoy the sun, GUEST. I know he's not much into conflict and confrontation, especially when it serves no useful purpose.

If I don't like the tone of a certain thread, I've learned not to post on it.

If I don't care for someone's on-line manner or find I'm always butting heads with them for some reason or another, I've tried making it a policy to skip their posts. (WARNING: if you try the ignoring tactic and the person does decide to extend the olive branch at some point, you'll never know it)

When it gets really unbearable, I just stay away from the Cat completely for a while. But I'd rather be here than on a site so heavily censored and monitored the discussions sound like they're piped in from the good ship Lollipop!

daylia


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: Devilmaster
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 12:43 PM

What tough questions? I haven't seen smoke at member's feet, let alone fire. :rolleyes:

I'm still waiting for treehouse or any complaining person to come up with ideas to fix what they see as a problem.....

I laugh at people who say 'this is wrong, this is crap, this is unfair' yet never seem to come up with the ideas to fix what they see is wrong, crappy or unfair.

Perhaps tree wouldn't be dismissed so quickly if he/she offered ideas to fix what they see is the problem. Ideas have been implemented at mudcat before - the splitting of the music and BS threads into their own sections was a direct result of people at this forum asking for a separation, and a perfect example of constructive criticism leading to changes.

I haven't seen tree or anyone else in this thread offer constructive criticism or solutions to their own complaints. Just a bit of laughable BS. At least its in the right section.... :D

Steve


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 12:59 PM

cough

gasp

aw, shit, now I have to wipe off the screen and the keyboard

I just read daylia's post.


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 01:17 PM

"I get a feeling that "GUEST,Treehouse" may be the same as that last GUEST."

As usual, McGrath chooses to deflect the conversation by focusing on the identity of the poster, rather than the content of the post.

No one has suggested anything "be done" to people. What has been suggested is that members who keep disrupting threads in which they have no interest other than disrupting the thread, control their "on a whim" trigger fingers on the 'Submit Message' button.

If you aren't one of the people engaging in such behavior, and disrupting threads you don't like just for the hell of it because you can, then nothing being said in this thread is of relevance to you. There is no need for you to be personally offended. There is no need for you to come to the rescue of other members' dishonorable and rude behavior, unless you are interested in protecting your personal right to be a jerk here.

As Shambles has noted, each and every poster to this forum has the ability to control what they post, and where they post.

All this thread is really, is a thread begging members to EDIT THYSELF.

Or as I asked in my last post, is the true goal of the members posting to this thread to entrench and maintain an anti-social forum for anti-social misfits--or as Bobert put it, a forum that is the cyber equivalent of TV wrestling?

It is up to each and every poster to this forum, what type of forum this will be, because what and how we post is what determines it.


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: GUEST,Victor Meldrew.
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 01:29 PM

The odd non sequitur will always creep in, and the off-beat, off topic funny remark is not totally beyond the pale. However some eedjit jumping into an otherwise sober and sensible thread (Remember them!)with cries of, '100 Yippee' is beyond a joke.


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 01:31 PM

Shambles, perhaps I should have said that, or if I had done, been more clear. I was not talking about member posts. What I was trying to say was if some idiot guest just came along and just posted a link to something sexually explicit, there wasn't a question that it should go, at least not if it was caught straight away before other posts had been added.


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: GUEST,Friend of Treehouse, Amos, and Victor Meldre
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 01:49 PM

Jon and Shambles, would you mind please moving the conversation to a thread where your perfectly legitimate issues, are relevant? We are trying to discuss a very specific problem behavior that is currently nearing epidemic proportion here, cause largely by obnoxious members.

We aren't suggesting/discussing censorship, as we have stated, censorship isn't the antidote to this problem. Nor is moderation. While creating a well moderated forum back in the day would have circumvented the very problem of which we speak here, discussions of censorship and moderation really aren't relevant anymore in this forum.

The only possible solution to the behavior of obnoxious members, is for members and guests alike who behave well and decently here, to ignore obnoxious members and guests.

Shunning those who engage in the obnoxious behavior would be a swift antidote for those who typically refuse to control themselves (and most of us don't seem to be having much problem coming up with a 'worst offenders' list).


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: Peace
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 02:07 PM

weelittledrummer,

I have never found you to be obnoxious. So, what have I been missing?


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 06:53 PM

I've avoided posting to this thread because it looked like it would quickly evolve into an "Oh yeah, you're stupid" call and response. Somehow, Treehouse's opening statements didn't sound much like a sincere effort to communicate.

I also find the argument that if you insult someone, it's their fault for being insulted kinda stange. There is a big difference between disagreements, even heated disagreemnts, and outright mean-spirited insults. I've seen what has happened to Don Firth and if people wish to brush that off as just a "disagreement" or suggest that Don was being overly sensitive, then I question how they carry on a respectful conversation with anyone.

What bothers me is that I've seen another music community destroyed by a few people who thought that they could say anything they wanted, no matter how cruel-hearted and that if people didn't like it, they should leave. That's exactly what finally happened. What had been a lively, mostly mutually supportive community of people is now a ghost town. I still have several wonderful friends that I made in that community, and I have many here. It bothers me that fewer and fewer of them seem to be participating these days.

One of the arguments I hear is that this is like the Wild West and only those who are "strong" survive in here. That's confusing strength with volume. There is something unrealistic about a internet community because in 3D people would never get away with the guly insults they toss around so casually in here.

I like the people in mudcat. I enjoy having a conversation, and I appreciate the generosity and kind-heartedness I've come to know in here. I just hate to see it diminished.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: Pogo
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 07:23 PM

It all reminds me of the Monty Python Arguement Clinic skit, actually.

Some people love to argue. I can't say I see the point of it. Perpetuating contention for the pure love of contention is just annoying, it doesn't prove how smart or sophisticated you are.

As for dismissing the humor threads I say this...

" A little nonsense
Now and then
Is cherished by
The wisest men "

I like a little side of whimsy every once in a while, it's a breath of fresh air. Life would be unbearable if we were serious all of the time.

So there. My two cents...


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 07:50 PM

Argument is a funny word - it can mean a discussion between people who disagree about some thing, or it can mean a quarrel. And those aren't the same thing by any means.

Discussing disagreements is a useful thing to do. Letting that turn into a quarrel isn't.

Some people seem to find it hard not to turn discussions into arguments. Sometimes I get the impression that it's not that the disagreement build up into a quarrel, it that people are looking for a quarrel for its own sake, and just about any pretext will serve.

I wholly agree with Jerry in finding absurd the notion that "If you insult someone, it's their fault for being insulted". At the same time I don't think that the fact we've been insulted in a forum like this ever means that we are justified in throwing insults back. "It takes two to tango."


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: Cluin
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 07:59 PM

No, McGrath, my post was not directed at you. If it was I would have PMed you. Sorry it looked that way and also sorry for the late reply; I was on the road this weekend.

And WYSIWYG, what you refer to above is known as:
Smurfing - smacking your partner in the face with your penis, also known as a "Danza Slap" because of an urban legend that Tony Danza did this in a porno movie early in his career, as in the sentence... "It's a real Danza Slap if you say `Who's the Boss?' while you're doing it; otherwise it's just plain old Smurfing, man."


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 08:05 PM

I wholly agree with Jerry in finding absurd the notion that "If you insult someone, it's their fault for being insulted". At the same time I don't think that the fact we've been insulted in a forum like this ever means that we are justified in throwing insults back. "It takes two to tango."

You mean like these examples (for others to follow) from our volunteers?

Shambles, go whine somewhere else, or maybe we should start threads about you and the sheep or something.

But Shambles believes in this sort of thing, so I think that maybe this would be a good opportunity to smear his reputation. Shambles, I'm sick of you and your shit.

Ah, Shambles - we make an exception for you, since you seem to think it's a good thing to have personal attacks. We want to keep you happy, after all. Your whining is so annoying.


Now there are some worse examples, if you wish me to find them?


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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
From: GUEST,Fred Miller
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 08:10 PM

Why don't I address Bobert's concerns instead of attacking Treehouse. Let me explain. For one, Bobert's concerns weren't on this thread when I posted, and even if they were, I'm not required to respond in the way that someone, later, wishes I would've. This goes back to my point about absurd, unrealistic, autistic fantasies of social interaction.

Second, I'm not really attacking Treehouse, or his futile desire to control a coalescence of social tone and manners by dictating what he or she prefers. A previous post in which I simply made fun of Treehouse in my preferred pathetic manner didn't take, for some reason. So I then decided to post "seriously" in my best version of what manner I can gather that Treehouse prefers. If I'm now also required to share Treehouse's point of view and concerns as well, because Bobert seems to reflect some of them in another post, then you are an absolute moron, no joke intended, and you should try to get help that I'm not qualified to provide.

I've answered those concerns anyway. I obviously don't share them and can't be drafted by hook or crook. I know where to go for more polite discussions, on subjects of particular interest to me, where more on-topic ettiquette suits me better. Here I'm satisfied with letting others post in ways I may not like, if I can post in ways they might not like. Treehouse simply doesn't like it, and as simply, I do. I'm sorry, that's all.


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