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BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members?
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Peace Date: 20 Aug 04 - 04:55 PM In a well-written post above, someone mentioned that the MOAB thread had been using the word ILK. Many of you know I have difficulty with my vision. Nothing serious, it's just that I am getting on in years and neither eye is what it was in my youth. I had been reading ILK as ELK. That is why I avoided that particular thread. We have elk in Canada; indeed, we have elk near Hinton where I live. I had thought that people were making fun of elk, and because many of those did are folks I admire, I restrained myself and did not go to the defense of that delicious antlered animal, because to have done so would have put me at odds with many Mudcat friends. So, Ms Treehouse, thank you; have saved me an embarrassment. Thank you. VOTE HILLARY |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: The Shambles Date: 20 Aug 04 - 04:42 PM Subject: RE: Can we (meaning you) rename a thread? From: The Shambles Date: 14-Aug-04 - 02:30 AM Wesley S came up with the following [posted in the latest 'hug and prayer complaint thread]- it says more in a few lines than I can ever manage, in my long-winded way. Grant our members and guests the serenity to accept the things they cannot change - the courage to change the things they can - and the wisdom to realise that this is a forum open to the public and that they have no control over the posts and ideas of others. As it was not a suggestion of mine, is there any chance of you putting this wonderful common sense into the FAQ and in the headings of the various forums? [crediting Wesley S of course] The starting point is setting the example that accepts that none of us here really have any control over the posts and ideas of others - only ourselves. That is something I would have thought that the Joe Offer I first came across and greatly respected in the forum, accepted and set the best example in. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Once Famous Date: 20 Aug 04 - 04:09 PM Joe I learned to play guitar from Kingston Trio records. Hasn't the arguement always been, and continues to be disguised in this thread: What is Folk? Who or what is a folksinger? Now, though Treehouse makes more sense that I know she is a broad. I am sure that she feels the same way about those that watch the Three Stooges. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: SINSULL Date: 20 Aug 04 - 04:05 PM Joe - I can't believe you had to ask. Read the threads Man! You're not only obnoxious but a Nazi leaning member of the Mudcat Elite and what's worse a CLONE who uses his power to keep the rest of us in line and CENSORED! But if you follow treehouse's advice and delete anything she finds offensive (not sure how to determine that, sorry), all will be forgiven.
Harumpf!!! -Joe Offer, the one, the only, the original- |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Aug 04 - 04:02 PM Cluin - was that me you were responding to or some earlier post by someone else? Get's confusing sometimes, I think it's a good idea to attach a name to a post that's intended as a response to a particular poster. Assuming your post was intended for me, "waste of time" wasn't meant to have the attacking intent that you seem to have read into it, and the attached quotation was intended to indicate that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Joe Offer Date: 20 Aug 04 - 04:01 PM I confess that I listen to the Chad Mitchell Trio more than just about anybody other than the Kingston Trio. Does that mean I'm one of the "obnoxious" Mudcatters? -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: SINSULL Date: 20 Aug 04 - 04:01 PM Actually Martin, unless menopause has been particularly unkind to treehouse, I don't believe she has a beard. But I am fairly certain she does not consider Chad Mitchell to be "folk". |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: The Shambles Date: 20 Aug 04 - 04:00 PM The site owner's refusal to allow moderation is the real problem here, just as it always has been. Splutters with astonisment!!! "Reasonable" members once argued vociferously against moderation just a few summers ago, because they really enjoyed flaming guests. From what I can see, (and am told) everyone but me seems to argue in favour of the current level and manner of imposed censorship or even for increased imposed censorship to be undertaken. As long as this censorship is not imposed upon them and they can continue to request reactive editing to be imposed on the contributions of others and they are permitted to judge and make personal attacks upon other posters, who may not share their views. Those responsible for this censorship, and who eagerly volunteer to pass judgement and impose censorship upon others, actually set this example by feeling that they can make personal attacks.....It should not be too much of a surprise if this poor example is followed. Perhaps it is time that a far better example was set, by those who would volunteer to judge the worth of the invited contributions of others? |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Once Famous Date: 20 Aug 04 - 03:54 PM Guess what, Treehouse. I'm a folksinger! I am very opinionated and I actually do collect real antiques, not just guitars. Your whining, snobbism, and pseudo-intellectualism type is actually what is obnoxious to some members, who, like myself, are not really so heavy handed as to living up to being a folksinger. My type like folkmusic and play it, also. Maybe we aren't navel gazing songwriters who have to socially comment on Mexican farm laborers. Maybe we like folk music like the Chad Mitchell Trio. I don't think it's all just about your perfect folk music site world. Hell, I'll bet you even have a beard. I don't. I feel that no one "owns" a thread. You cannot log into a thread. Threads are not private conversations, and "interrupting" a thread might just be a good way of voicing an opinion against the thread in general. So many of the philosophical threads, the "what if" threads, really are quite obnoxiously silly. Stepping in can be as funny as say, jumping into a pool wearing a tutu at the olympics. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: SINSULL Date: 20 Aug 04 - 03:18 PM Treehouse says: Now, if the posters to those threads would behave properly in the non-mindless drivel threads I regularly participate in, there would be no cause to bitch slap them when they get out of hand. But they all got a good virtual bitch slap coming to them, and I'm happy to give it. I'm confused. According to my search you didn't exist before this thread and have never posted to another. As to obnoxious MC members. Your observations have been made almost since the beginning of Mudcat. It goes through silly periods and nasty periods and productive periods. Some complain; some wallow; some join in. Continue to post your objections. You have the right. But be realistic - it is not going to change. What to do about obnoxious MC members? Ignore them or don't. Very simple. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: GUEST,Clint Keller Date: 20 Aug 04 - 03:11 PM Well, we all know Sturgeon's law: 90% of everything is crap. I have learned a lot from the 10% noncrap here, and I don't read the shitethreads et al. if I don't want to. If you put in Bounds and Authority you'll still have 90% crap: less giddy crap, true, but more pompous crap, and you'll be limiting the good 10% to Approved Topics. And what fun is that? I don't contribute much to the music threads because usually everyone knows more than I do, but I read them. I contribute to the BS threads most because a lot of what I know is BS. And my opinions are unfailingly correct. I've learned from the good 10% on both sides of the line. Censorship sucks. clint |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Cluin Date: 20 Aug 04 - 02:42 PM So, basically, if it's not something THOU is interested in taking part in, it's a waste of time? As opposed to the regular waste of time around here? It's been said before: if you don't like it, ignore it. Nobody's forcing you to read it or respond to it. And if you object to it dirtying up your little world around here, maybe it's time to take a walk in the park or go to the beach or something and gain a bit of perspective. Have a laugh! Life's too short not to have regrets. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Aug 04 - 02:37 PM "...drawn to things that are old and antiquated."..."I'm more the kind of folkie who is drawn to the folk singers of the 60's to the present"... As I see it, Little Hawk, us folk singers of the 60's are pretty old and antiquated by now - and all the better for it. Breaking hearts and heads over the fact that things aren't perfect always seems a waste of time to me. As the saying goes "Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." Complaining about this kind of thing falls into the first category fairly rapidly. It's worth doing from time to time, but not worth persisting in doing so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: CarolC Date: 20 Aug 04 - 02:37 PM You have to be able to understand Canadians, Amos, in order to understand the Shatner thing. I used to think Neil Young's music was just plain crap until I had it explained to me by Canadians that he (a Canadian himself) is, much of the time, being ironically humourous in a uniquely Canadian sort of way. Now I think his stuff, while still being crap, is funny crap. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Little Hawk Date: 20 Aug 04 - 02:31 PM Shatner wouldn't consider dealing with Treehouse, who is obviously out of his tree or at least on the way to being so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Ellenpoly Date: 20 Aug 04 - 02:27 PM Don't fret yourself, Little Hawk Amos will be taken care of Soon (William Shatner still channelling through Ellenpoly though she EXPRESSLY told him to go bother Treehouse from now on.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Little Hawk Date: 20 Aug 04 - 02:17 PM You almost had me in tears there, Amos... Should I consider dumping the Shatman? Do I have the strength of character to overcome this grotesque malady? Will Sweet Nell be rescued from a hideous death beneath the wheels of the oncoming express train??? Don't touch that dial!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Little Hawk Date: 20 Aug 04 - 02:12 PM You are so right, Stilly. I have been absolutely shameless in promoting Mr Shatner. He is one of Canada's larger exports, after all. :-) It's my patriotic duty. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Amos Date: 20 Aug 04 - 02:11 PM Especially the Shatner posts. They are a disgrace to the community and a great moral and literary compromise on Little Hawk's part. He is capable of such depth, such flair, such creativity and such imaginative flights of fancy, that to anchor his dissertations to the fat and shedding Persona of a rug-0headed, bloated, monotone, flat-singing has-been wanna-be like Shatner is just -- I don't know -- self-destructive and self-insulting in one fell swoop! I weep not against Shatner, buit for the gentle soul of Little Hawk which has forced itself to such depravity for the sake of ill-gotten flittering waves of thin admiration. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 20 Aug 04 - 02:05 PM I see no difference whatsoever between the Mother of All BS sorts of threads and the Rubbish/Shite threads and the many variations of the Mudcat popularity contest threads (birthday threads, prayer and hug threads, etc). They are all of the same ilk. I've never even opened the Mother thread, so that in itself ought to tell you something about where I spend my time in this forum, which is in both music and BS sections, but not in the threads of those ilk. Now, if the posters to those threads would behave properly in the non-mindless drivel threads I regularly participate in, there would be no cause to bitch slap them when they get out of hand. But they all got a good virtual bitch slap coming to them, and I'm happy to give it. Treehouse, you've missed a lot of far-reaching good natured imaginative fun by not reading the MOAB. It is a bit of a job to catch up, but if you go back a few hundred posts that should be enough to take the measure of the site. Little Hawk, if we count all of the Shatner posts, you aren't exactly a stranger there yourself. This appears to be the MOAB pot calling the MOAB kettle black. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Little Hawk Date: 20 Aug 04 - 01:59 PM Yes, and Twillingsgate is also reputed to be a lovely place to take a few weeks off and revel in the pastoral beauty, quaint shops, and peaceful atmosphere. Treehouse, I almost fell off my seat when I saw you use the term "ilk" in your post. Ilk, glorious ilk! If you had bothered to read much of the MOABST, you would have discovered that the term "ilk" has been used for a long time now as an in joke amongst a goodly number of us. Whenever we decide to depict the incensed ramblings of a particularly pompous windbag who is railing on about something that has upset him/her, we throw in the term "ilk" as in..."When will this despicable cretin and his ilk learn that their behaviour is not appreciated here, indeed is offensive in the extreme and MUST not be tolerated any longer!!!" And so on, and so on... It's such an expressive word. The fact that you have innocently used "ilk" in a post in which it was not intended to be humorous indicates that you are from a finer class of individual, the sort who once lifted this forum above the sweaty, vulgar masses and into a more rarified atmosphere where 17 alternative versions of House Carpenter is NOT a subject guaranteed to reduce the listener to a comatose state of boredom! I deeply regret the fact that there are so few left of you and your, dare I say it...ilk...these days. There has been a shocking deterioration in society, and your kind are needed more than ever before to return us to sanity and balance. The Mother of all BS Threads was started on a whim by Khandu. Why, I don't know. Like I said, it was a whim. I think it was inspired by Saddam Hussein...indirectly. Well, by something he said once. At any rate it was a terrifically funny thread in the first couple of hundred posts, and I feel sorry for you because you didn't get to read it. My heart is rent with sympathy. After a lengthy period of time the MOABST grew bloated and redundant, I am sorry to say. A small group of lost souls (including Amos & Rapaire) became addicted to posting on it for no reason other than that they had already done so a few hundred times! I can understand your annoyance at seeing people thus distracted from the higher purposes of life. But what can one do? People will have their addictions, won't they? You said: "But I do know a lot of folk musicians and folk music afficionados. They are, by most anyone's standards, a witty, warm, engaging, argumentative, and opinionated group of people, overly drawn to things that are old and antiquated." That sounds to me like a rather good description of a number of the people whose whimsical posts you are objecting to. In my case, though, I'm more the kind of folkie who is drawn to the folk singers of the 60's to the present...who tend more to write their own songs. That interests me a good deal more than the trad stuff, but I do like trad material and know a fair bit about it. It was the foundation upon which people like Baez and Dylan started out. They just didn't stay there, that's all. Dylan still performs traditional songs in his live concerts, and obviously knows a phenomenal number of them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: DougR Date: 20 Aug 04 - 01:57 PM Treehouse: I think you are expecting something of the Mudcat population that has never existed, at least during my tenure here. You said in an earlier post that moderation could be achieved by the group agreeing to a set of rules. I don't think that would ever happen here. We sometimes have a difficult time agreeing on the simplist of things. I think ignoring things that offend, as well as those that do not interest, might be a good rule of thumb when considering behaviour here on the Mudcat. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Amos Date: 20 Aug 04 - 01:56 PM I would submit that here are two sorts of BS posts -- those that try to enhance the experience of people by offering them thought, humor or creative exploration of some kind and those posts which are essentially cultivating the art of stupidity or school-boy humor. I don't think we need to get into a long parsing of which is which. Does anybody out there think that "Is Shite Shite" is funny? Or silly mockeries of thread titles based on really dull-witted puns? Good humor includes relevance, some degree of creativity and a modicum of respect for its audience. The kind of crap that I think Treehouse is objecting to, and I concur with him, is the sort of deliberate cultivated mindlessness that does nothing for anyone. It is, to me, like osmeone littering a favorite beach with empty styrofoam cups and spent condoms. Maybe some of you like spent condoms, but I don't care for them myself. And BWL, to compare the heights of frenzied silliness found int he MOAB with the kind of drivel against which I am trying to register a protest is most undiscriminating -- the MOAB is usually creative and has a sort of educated flair to it which I find entertaining and socially uplifting. It makes me laugh. I gave up fart jokes for the most part when I graduated from grade school. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: GUEST Date: 20 Aug 04 - 01:06 PM Isle of Wights nice at this time of year. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: GUEST,Treehouse Date: 20 Aug 04 - 01:03 PM I do often take holidays from Mudcat. In fact, I've been on holiday from Mudcat most of the summer. This is my personal, last ditch effort to see if I shouldn't make the holiday permanent, expressly because of the level of shite. And apparently, from reading through the other threads on this subject this week, some pretty well respected contributors here feel the same. So maybe it isn't us that needs the holiday. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: GUEST Date: 20 Aug 04 - 12:57 PM Treehouse...I ask you again, as you suggested it as an improvement.WHO WOULD YOU THROW OUT? |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Ellenpoly Date: 20 Aug 04 - 12:53 PM Interesting that quite a lot of the threads are discussing the same thing. I'm not sure how I feel, having contributed far more below the stairs than above it, and some of it (I've gone back to re-read my postings-a rather sobering experience) pretty silly to say the least. But like everything else on the internet, or in life, one has to learn to sift through all that is on offer, pick and choose according to one's tastes, and let the other go it's merry (or not so merry) way. Perhaps if the level of shite becomes too high for some folk, a little holiday from Mudcat is in order. I'm thinking of doing that myself, unless I can somehow disipline myself to not let William Shatner channel through me anymore! Time will change, people will change. I still think in the end that it's better to keep this site messy. ..xx..e |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: kendall Date: 20 Aug 04 - 12:52 PM MG, Jesus may not be YOUR messiah, but he is to many of us. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Joe Offer Date: 20 Aug 04 - 12:51 PM I think it helps for all of us to be mindful of humor. Silliness and intelligent humor come across well on the internet, but put-down humor most often seems like an attack. If I question what looks like the beginnings of a big brawl, people say, "Don't worry, it's just their kind of humor." - and then before you know it, somebody gets hurt and it does become a big brawl. If you're trying to write something funny, keep it light. If you want to make fun of somebody, make fun of yourself - you are your own safest victim. If you're on the receiving end of humor and it seems offensive, try not to take offense. Oftentimes, the poster didn't intend to offend. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: GUEST,Treehouse Date: 20 Aug 04 - 12:50 PM I see no difference whatsoever between the Mother of All BS sorts of threads and the Rubbish/Shite threads and the many variations of the Mudcat popularity contest threads (birthday threads, prayer and hug threads, etc). They are all of the same ilk. I've never even opened the Mother thread, so that in itself ought to tell you something about where I spend my time in this forum, which is in both music and BS sections, but not in the threads of those ilk. Now, if the posters to those threads would behave properly in the non-mindless drivel threads I regularly participate in, there would be no cause to bitch slap them when they get out of hand. But they all got a good virtual bitch slap coming to them, and I'm happy to give it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: GUEST,Treehouse Date: 20 Aug 04 - 12:41 PM Beast, there is virtually nothing I disagree with in your last post. However, there is still this pesky problem of people overstepping their bounds. That is happening a lot these days, and consistently by the same people. So what is the problem with calling them on it? That is all I'm doing here. Expressing my opinion, and calling the people I think are going well beyond reasonableness in their efforts to impress one another. Of course I can't control anyone's behavior. I also don't want to play forum cop to the delinquents. I've never been involved with such an immature group of folk musicians and folk music afficionados, so I guess I have nothing to compare this place to. But I do know a lot of folk musicians and folk music afficionados. They are, by most anyone's standards, a witty, warm, engaging, argumentative, and opinionated group of people, overly drawn to things that are old and antiquated. Which is why I'm sure a lot of them congregate in this, rather than the more state of the art folk music boards that don't put up with childish behavior that is so admired here. Only occassionally does childish pranksterism entertain, and when it's all you have going, it ceases to fun and funny altogether. It is one thing to co-exist, ignore, and live and let live. If that is what was happening here, no one would have cause to complain, would they? But it is another thing entirely to CONSTANTLY disrupt and destroy conversations with incredibly bad manners. A lot of members are complaining about this, not just me. So maybe, right now, in the current circumstances, we all need to examine our own behavior and see how we might be contributing to the mess, and god forbid, actually pitch in and help clean it up. Sometimes getting others to do their share requires bitching and nagging. If I am guilty of bitching at and nagging those forum members who are causing the problems, so be it. Somebody needed to call them on it. Polite and reasonable attempts to get them to stop have been mocked and ignored. So just why should we all shut up and take it again? |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Aug 04 - 12:39 PM There's humorous and there's nasty and deliberately hurtful, and they aren't the same thing. Attempts at jokes by people whose sense of humour or humor is a million miles removed from what we might ourselves consider funny can be irritating, especially if it seems to knock off course a discussion we are interested in - but deliberate insults and abuse is what causes the real damage. But what I've observed over the past few years is that these kind of things do run their course. At some point people stop rewarding the people who are swaggering around trying to disrupt things, and they move on elsewhere, or start to read their own posts perhaps, and come to their senses. A good rule of thumb, I suggest, is that it is never right to say anything here that you would be unwilling to say face to face to the person you are addressing. There's no way to enforce this, and the relative freedom from being "moderated" of the Mudcat is a good thing in my view, even though there is a price to be paid for it. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't aim at moderation in how we deal with each other here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 20 Aug 04 - 12:30 PM One thing I don't understand is why GUEST, Treehouse, who appears to be a member based on his/her familiarity with the goings-on around here, is posting anomymously. The only posts I can find for anyone named Treehouse are the ones on this thread. If I were inclined to start a thread on this tempest-in-a-teapot topic I would be absolutely certain to do it under my own name. Treehouse obviously holds strong opinions on the matter, so what's wrong with having those opinions associated with a name we recognize? And, Amos, my dear friend, I'm sorry, but I don't see much difference between the inanity of many of the silly threads being talked about here and the brand of silliness we get into over on "The Mother of All BS Threads". Is it just that having several "Is _______ Shite?" threads going at the same time is excessive? Perhaps, in the same fashion in which the Horse Punchers have been asked to only start one thread a month, the shite-heads could start something like "It's August! Are these things shite?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Little Hawk Date: 20 Aug 04 - 12:20 PM That 80/20 principle you're describing happens in any club or group of people anywhere, doesn't it? The "regulars" are simply those who participate the most and who get to know each other the best. It takes time to become a regular...if you want to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: The Beast of Farlington Date: 20 Aug 04 - 12:12 PM I contribute music and off-topic posts to several moderated fora. Moderation in itself does not guarantee off-topic posting. It all depends on what those who run the forum consider acceptable and the extent to which they allow the membership to run the forum. In my experience the old 80/20 principle comes into play here - about 20% of the membership contribute 80% of the posts which leads to the feeling among that 20% of members that they should have the biggest say in how things are run - an oligarchy, if you like. That's the feeling they have but one of the reasons that they remain the most frequent posters is that newcomers are frightened off by a cliquey feeling and intolerance of difference. I accept that it can be annoying to have a thread blown off course by humourous posting but if those who want to keep it serious have nothing else to add, then what's the problem? We can't MAKE others contribute in a certain way if they don't want to. If you have something else to say, keep saying it. I don't think Mudcat's technology helps either. It's reassuringly antiquated - there are many more user-friendly bulletin boards that help you quote a previous post and get the thread back on track. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: George Papavgeris Date: 20 Aug 04 - 12:11 PM ...and yes, I did vote a dozen times or so for Philmore too. I like to think that I can be serious and joke too. At the same time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Little Hawk Date: 20 Aug 04 - 12:10 PM Good question! :-) And how does someone who is either a Guest...or a member afraid to post under his/her own name get the authority to throw anyone out? Treehouse, there is now another Shatner thread at the top of the BS section. Get mad, gnash your teeth, tell your kids the end of the world is at hand, and tell us ALL about it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: George Papavgeris Date: 20 Aug 04 - 12:10 PM I have seen some marvellous threads this past year in Mudcat; some were even in the BS section (the discussion on icons for example). The gems-to-crap ratio might be 1/30 now, where it was 1/10 a year ago, but I still find the forum very valuable. I am put off slightly by the increase in crap-shite threads, but that's just personal taste. It actually helps to see it in the title, because I can then avoid such threads - which is how I make it through a Mudcat read without getting annoyed. But... The comparison to lager louts and what is happening in European cities is incorrect, in my opinion. This is a forum where people choose to visit, they don't have to inhabit it. Furthermore, it is a forum of folkies, traditionally a diverse, sometimes unruly or politically incorrect, tolerant yet kicking-at-the-tyres-of-convention kind of people - and that's partly its inherent value. To try to shoehorn that into a prissy well-behaved discussion group would be moderating the essence out of it. It may die, as people vote with their feet. Or perhaps it will not. But it is precious as it is. I give you two much better examples: a) The best flowers need shit to grow b) I'd rather spend the last day in the life of an animal that's about to become extinct watching it, recording it, understanding it, enjoying it in its freedom, than cage it forever in order to "protect" it or "preserve" it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: GUEST Date: 20 Aug 04 - 12:04 PM Treehouse...who would you throw out? |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Little Hawk Date: 20 Aug 04 - 12:02 PM We all have an aversion to various things, Peter K. There must be a hundred theads right now in the music section and 60 in the BS section. How many of them will I visit today? 10 or 12? I will certainly not visit those threads that I have an aversion to, nor will I experience mental distress over the fact that those threads exist. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: GUEST,Treehouse Date: 20 Aug 04 - 11:58 AM I don't know about your world Little Hawk, but the Mudcat Cafe this summer doesn't even remotely reflect it. Georgiansilver, I live in an urban neighborhood in the US. Yes, we have the equivalent of the laddie/lager louts and lasses behavior in the US, it is known by many names. Beer boys. Frat boys. Girls gone wild. Those are all labels put upon the worst aspects of anti-social behavior while no one in authority is looking. That is what this is really about. People from both sides of the Atlantic are behaving badly in the Mudcat Cafe because there is no authority figure here to stop them from doing it. That is why they only inhabit unmoderated internet chat forums. They get thrown out of the moderated forums for their bad behavior. For good reason. Which is why a good number of old timers like Little Hawk keep claiming that moderation is the equivalent of censorship. It isn't. Forum moderation is where a group of people agree to have discussions according to a previously agreed to set of rules, and those who refuse to abide by those rules are removed. It isn't censorship, it is consensus building. When there is so little to celebrate or embrace in the Mudcat Cafe, why should I try and paint phoney smiley faces on a bad situation, just to "be positive". That is a manipulative guilt trip from the offending group. This isn't about being positive or negative. It is about an open airing of long held grievances. Only when an honest airing of grievances takes place, can solutions be found. Therein lies the difference. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 20 Aug 04 - 11:57 AM I haven't seen much in the way of Mudcat wars, but agree that an increasing proportion of content is sheer drivel - much of it indeed Brit driven (along the lines of what's going to happen next in someone's favourite soap). The Shatner and Cletis stuff I can live without (and fear not, LH, I don't think many mudcatters would put your humour up there with Spaw's), and I share Joe Offer's aversion to the hugs and prayers threads. A lot can be ignored,but a lot can't because it is intertwined parasitically with useful content. For instance threads about Mudcat gatherings contain essential details for those planning to attend, yet are frequently over-run by inane chit-chat which at best amounts to private natter between people who know each other, and which has the effect of making others feel excluded. I considered inviting some serious musicians to the last "Loughstock" gathering, but knew that if I referred them to the relevant thread I would be exposing Mudcat at its most puerile. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: HRH ted of hull Date: 20 Aug 04 - 11:49 AM ( put sensible head on....) Maybe it's time to hear from the people that own this mudcat to declare whether they are happy with the way it's going or not? Maybe some of us, myself included, ought to bugger off. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Ebbie Date: 20 Aug 04 - 11:49 AM As no doubt, iyo, one of the people sliming these halls with drivel, I mght point out that threads and posts with pointed humor are far different from those loaded with invective and insult. And that, imo, is where the difficulty lies. If one does not get the humor or does not appreciate a humorous point, it is easy to slide over that particular post. Invective, on the other hand, is meant to be unpleasant and hurtful. So, Treehouse, imo, you are using too broad a brush. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 20 Aug 04 - 11:48 AM It hardly gets noticed when something gets posted the the music threads and in the tech threads that help us keep our computers running and lines of communications open. The books were pulled out and citations offered on the King Arthur thread a couple of days ago--hardly a blip since. But going to that trouble and not getting a response is better than the nonsense below the line lately. It's time for a few virtual dope slaps. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Georgiansilver Date: 20 Aug 04 - 11:42 AM mmmmm Yes Guest Treehouse...their are lager louts in UK and Europe generally..I assume you are in the US...Do you feel safe when you walk down the streets there..we hear of people being shot frequently in US..Big news when someone goes mad with a gun eh??? Think I would rather take my chances with the lager louts thank you. I love the music threads, reading many of them often and learning some things from them. I love to use the non-music threads.... occasionally, in a lighthearted way...not like some who take it so seriously!!!! If that's your bag friend then please just live with it and stop blaming anything other than yourself for getting so involved with the whole issue. Best wishes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Little Hawk Date: 20 Aug 04 - 11:37 AM Oh, it happens, all right, Amos, and I've noticed it too. Who hasn't? I don't in the least mind people who make goofy jokes, while frequently also having something worthwhile to say. I do find it tedious when someone has absolutely nothing worthwhile to say or when they are repeatedly, deliberately offensive or mean-spirited...not in a way that makes a useful point, but out of sheer hostility. I do not wish, however, that I could control them, because it's not my business to control other people. I find this forum interesting, because it's a microcosm of the World. You encounter all possibilities here, as you do in the World. That means...either you adapt and grow up emotionally...or you storm off in a huff, because the forum isn't as you would like it to be. You can do that in the World too. You can buy a house in a gated community, hire guards, grow big hedges around on all sides, and complain about how awful the people on the outside are. I feel sorry for someone who reacts that way to life. Those who wish to improve the World must make a positive input to it themselves. I do. Spaw does. You do. Carol does. Bobert does. Lots of us do. I have no idea who Treehouse is and as yet no evidence of a positive input on his or her part. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: GUEST,Treehouse Date: 20 Aug 04 - 11:36 AM As I said in the first thread Jim Dixon, shunning does work, quite effectively. But there are also times when we need to draw attention to the mess in here. Ignoring that it's a mess doesn't help either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 20 Aug 04 - 11:33 AM Amos-you moan about the BS, I've just clicked on your name! Have you ever posted to a music thread??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: What to do about obnoxious MC members? From: Jim Dixon Date: 20 Aug 04 - 11:32 AM Ignore them. Don't argue with them. Don't respond to them. If you must discuss them with others, do it in Personal Messages. If you have gotten into unpleasant arguments in the past, re-read the old threads to (1) see how you contributed to the escalation of the rhetoric, (2) decide at what point you could have bowed out gracefully, and (3) see whether you could have interpreted another person's remarks in a more generous way. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. (That is, you're one of the people that others shouldn't respond to.) |