What compels a musician to busk?

Subject: RE: What compels a musician to busk?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 10:33 PM

I was playing a gig at the NATIONAL HOTEL on Block Island the week end Nixon resigned . We had room and board for a week on a lovily ocean veiwed hotel . WRONG just room and on the third floor . No money ... I was playing on the street to make food money . I had a blast and made a lot of friends . All the best , Guy

Subject: RE: What compels a musician to busk?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 08:15 PM

Thanks, Shambles.

Yeah, InOBU,

I 'failed' an audition some years ago - 7 am in middle of winter in a howling frosty windy mall surrounded by tall buildings with no sun...

I had heard of "Ice Wine" but never "Ice Whistle" before....

Robin

Subject: RE: What compels a musician to busk?
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 07:41 PM

The names were Jordene, a classical soprano, student and mother of two.
Peter, a celtic harpist and an ex accountant.
Hadar Manor, a singer/guitarist and ex Israli army officer.
And a chap, whose name I did not catch, who played guitar and sang reggae type songs on The Southbank.

They did show a bit where folk who wish to offically busk on the London Underground did their audition. These auditons were held in the London Underground.

Subject: RE: What compels a musician to busk?
From: InOBU
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 08:53 AM

Hi gang:
Thanks Charlie... good piece. However, licencing and such... well, I am not for it. Frankly, the good musicians keep at it and not too many bad ones make enough to keep going, unless they are a little bit bughouse, and then, well, licencing wont help or hinder. Fact is, the unpredicable nature of busking is such that 1. paying a fee can set one back more than one can afford, B. the idea of a quality control board would have ruled out Bob Dylan before he began to record... (Gee Mr. Zimmerman, with that squeeky voice of yours, perhapes you might concider accountancy... I could hear a licenicing man saying...) Well, some days you pay all your bills and get a new instrument, other days and other places, you get treated like a bum... or worce, for example the Union Square farmer's market, Yuppies stand and listen, encourage their kids to ask about the music, then walk away as though you are a public service - but that is the unpredicable nature of the trade, and you keep at it, licencing it generally kills it quick.
Cheers and good luck fellows on the road,
Larry
PS TO support the continuation of the busking tradition, feel free to email me at [e-mail] and enquire how you may perchace a copy of the lattest "The Best of Lorcan Otway (is yet to come)" With lots of new songs and many of the old...

Subject: RE: What compels a musician to busk?
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 05:56 AM

If I get to see it, or record it, I will try.

See also

Busking is begging?

Subject: RE: What compels a musician to busk?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 05:49 AM

A good many years ago, a bunch of buskers made it out to Australia. They got a lot of publicity, and even had an LP record released. I think they were called 'The London Underground Buskers"??? ... or similar...

I have been thinking about this for months, and that name just popped into my head. It would have been probably not much earlier than 1975, and not more than 10 years after that, if anybody can help.

I really liked their style - they did lots of Classical Music Standards, with minimal instruments, only 2 or 3 of them, but they sounded very good.

Shambles, can you give us the names of the buskers on that show - we probably won't get to see it here.

Subject: RE: What compels a musician to busk?
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 05:36 AM

The long-running UK arts TV programme The South Bank starts a new series tonight Sunday 22 August 2004. It is devoted to profiles of 4 London buskers.

Subject: RE: What compels a musician to busk?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 10:44 PM

Well, cobber,

"Incidentally, if they take your TFN before allowing you to busk, that should prove that you are a professional musician."

I have little faith in the Australia Tax Mob, unfortunately. They recently ruled that certain things in Aged retirement homes which had been exempt under legislation from GST were now not exempt. The several relevant subsequent Minister-chair-warmers shelved the problem, until the latest temporary one made a decision that overturned this.

You can get 'private rulings', even by phone on matters such as this 'professional status' position, but legally, different people can get different non-precedental conflicting rulings.

In the Tax legislation is a marvellous piece of construction, which allows the Tax Dept to deem that something that did take place - did not take place, as well as deeming that something which did not take place - did take place... in other words, being able to legally rewrite history for the purposes of imposing tax liability and fines, etc.

George Orwell would be amused!

So cobber, I am sorry to say that your helpful suggestion seems to have no legal support. I am sure that if the deductions for the expenses exceeded the stated income, the Tax Dept would simply rule (based on past similar rulings) that Professional Status did not apply, but even though it was a hobby (and normally the 'income' from a hobby is not taxable since you can't claim deductible expenses), since the Sydney Bylaw stated that busking was a legitimate means of 'making a living', it would be taxed! If you want to fight that, go for it - I hope you have the money for the case! :-)

Robin

Subject: RE: What compels a musician to busk?
From: Terry Allan Hall
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 03:43 PM

Cool article!

Subject: RE: What compels a musician to busk?
From: erinmaidin
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 05:59 AM

the desire to eat?

Subject: RE: What compels a musician to busk?
From: cobber
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 02:10 AM

I started my career as a busker, mainly in Northern Queensland. It was illegal in those days (1966-7)and you had to keep moving on to avoid the cops. From there, I moved into the pubs. Townsville had 56 in those days. I would buy a beer and prop my guitar against the wall with my pack. Sooner or later someone would ask you to play and get permission from the barman. It was illegal to perform in the bar but they often turned a blind eye. Evenings in the lounge were good and every now and then I would pass the hat round, or preferably, get someone else to do it. It was a great way to learn performance skills as well as meeting some wonderful people. The only drawback was that everyons wanted to buy you a beer and this led to a heavy habit by the time I was in my early twenties. My 11 year old son has now taken up busking with his cello at the local market and it has given him a great incentive to study his instrument as well as teaching him how to perform. Incidently, if they take your TFN before allowing you to busk, that should prove that you are a professional musician. For the small amount that you need to declare, you can then claim instrument depreciation, strings, clothing, make-up and even massage as tax deductions so it ain't all bad.

Subject: RE: What compels a musician to busk?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 11:49 PM

I forgot - I rang up the Brisbane City Council yesterday.

BCC used to charge a hefty "Busking Licence Application Fee" as well as a savage "Busking Monthly Licence Fee", as well as only allowing those who pass Auditions (we will for the moment ignore the questions of musical taste or ability on the part of those conducting the auditions!) about once a quarter. I noticed that the only busker in the last few years was the blind sax player with his dog - who the Council tried to refuse a permit for a while ago. This caused considerable public outrage, including making it onto TV!

It appears now that all fees have been removed (it seems that they are now trying to 'encourage' buskers!), but you still need to track down the secret quarterly audition dates (You are not cleared for access to that information Citizen!) for access to only the Queen Street Mall (one was on today, but future ones are unknown!). A successful audition allows one to get a monthly permit, which has to be reapplied for each month. For the 2 Valley Malls, if you can get the guy to answer the mobile phone number which the nice guy on the phone took a while to track down for me, you can audition by agreement, and get a licence only for the Valley Malls on the spot.

Busking elsewhere is prohibited, but there are a few triers, most often in the railway tunnel at Central - none in the Valley (Brunswick street), or Roma Street, or South Brisbane. Police "move you on", if they find you.

Buggered if I know how you crack Southbank (The People Friendly Park - old site of 1988 EXPO - where busking is encouraged!), every time I ring them up to find out the information they tell me they will ring back and never do! Never seen any musical buskers there, only a few jugglers - nothing sharp except their wit, and no flames, etc.

Robin

Subject: RE: What compels a musician to busk?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 11:16 PM

If you dig thru this PDF file, you will find that Sydney is talking about only giving a busking licence if a proper Australian Tax File number is given. This is the approved City of Sydney Busking Policy 2001.

Note:

"Busking is a valid means for people to make a living"

Busking activities are covered by the Council for Public Liability, but only if the busker has agreed to the highly restrictive conditions, including Tax File provision.

It's worth reading the policy in full if you have been following the Mudcat Busking threads, no matter what country you live or busk in - Australian Legislation has an unfortunate habit of becoming attractive to much of the rest of the world's politicians. Australia was one of the first countries to give women the vote, for one example, another is the PBS health drugs scheme.

Robin

Subject: RE: What compels a musician to busk?
From: khandu
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 10:59 PM

I have never had the talent, nor the audacity, to busk. I have always admired those who dare,& I have certainly tossed a coin or two in the hats. The only busker with whom I have conversed enough to develope a rapport has been alanabit (whom I was sure would respond to this thread even before I opened it!), & if he is an accurate representation of the general busking populace, they are a fine lot!

ken

Subject: RE: What compels a musician to busk?
From: Pat Cooksey
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 07:31 PM

Before I moved to live in Germany I spent many happy years in Ireland,both busking and playing in pubs, the busking part paid the bills, and the pubs were for fun financially.
I was fortunate to live in Ireland, where a good voice is paramount, and the people could identify with what I was singing.
My main towns in those days were Kilenny, Clonmel, Wexford, and later when I moved to Clare, the streets of Ennis.
I won the Tipperary song contest with a song about busking in Ennis, it was also a bonus that the people knew I had written some famous songs.
I sing now in Germany in places I would not have dreamed of in those days, but still look back with happiness to my time in the streets.

Subject: RE: What compels a musician to busk?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 06:52 PM

I remember seeing a Busker in London during a short visit there in 1997 thanking one person for giving them some money ("I am really broke") and then later when recognising an American accent, telling them that they planned to visit the USA! I even have this on Video, or some of it!

(Not that any of this is a reason to stop, or even license, busking!)

Subject: RE: What compels a musician to busk?
From: Joybell
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 06:46 PM

Yes it is interesting. Thanks Charlie. Lots of people told me what they thought of buskers in general and me in particular when I was busking in Melbourne. Almost all of it was positive and similar to the comments in this article. Sometimes a friend came with me and lurked in the crowd picking up comments from bystanders, just for fun. She did hear things like, "I'll bet she isn't really poor!" and once, "I'll bet she hugs trees and doesn't like uranium mines!" While busking I always avoided singing "message songs" so that one was a bit of a puzzle. Most people understood that busking is an act. The most common comment was, "You've brightened up my day!" and after a break, "Where have you been I've missed you?" Joy

Subject: RE: What compels a musician to busk?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 05:44 PM

Great stuff! It was really encouraging to see that *most* of the respondants had positive things to say about buskers.

I would prefer not to see licensing become mandatory; as one of the active buskers in the poll said, spontaneity is an important aspect of the whole experience, for listeners as well as for the performers.

It was interesting to see that most of the sourpuss naysayers specifically mentioned their resentment that busking income usually escapes taxation. I say, that's a good thing! Independent ventures like this one require no help from any government, take nothing from anyone except voluntary contributions, and do not need to turn over any part of their modest proceeds to The Man.

The image one gentleman complains about, of a busker reporting to work in an expensive sports car, means nothing. Sounds like BS to me, like Ronald Reagan's mythical Cadillac-driving "welfare queen." If it is in fact true that a street musician was observed driving such a vehicle, you can be sure that he bought it with money obtained in some other manner than busking (either inheritance or a good day job).

Only one responding busker admitted that his activity was a great way to meet girls. In my (long-ago) experience, that was really a *main* feature of the "job." For me, the money never got any better than subsistence-level, but the, er, social opportunites were unprecedented. When I got married, I absolutely had to quit the streets.

Subject: RE: What compels a musician to busk?
From: alanabit
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 05:36 PM

Thanks Charlie. As a busker myself, I'll keep my prejudiced comments out of this discussion. I enjoyed reading that though.

Subject: What compels a musician to busk?
From: CharleyR
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 04:28 PM

Thought people might be interested in this discussion on the BBC website: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/3579672.stm