BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal

Subject: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 10:27 PM

IMO, there is a thin line between buying into what appears to be the truth in our world and going along with the race/common consciousness OR, choosing to remember the power in words, thoughts, and believing in what can be the truth for our world.

The common consciousness tells us that the world seems to be going to hell in a handbasket. We wring our hands, posts arguments for and against this and that politician; give our opinions on what may or may not bring about change for the better or worse.

What I don't see a lot of is anyone, and I don't just mean on the Mudcat, but anyone, being careful of their words. I broke a pledge from a few years ago and began to wallow in the "ohmygawd" mentality. I am going to try, again, to be more positive.

I will hold a vision of our country/our world, which is full of light, peace, and prosperity in all ways. Call me pollyanna if you'd like, but if we don't offer the power of our minds and words to the good of all, through visualisation, singing, writing, etc. then we are contributing to the continuation of what seems to be, rather than what could be. If we direct our energy towards positive thoughts, words, etc. we can have an effect. We know this through the power of music which we demonstrate time and again.

If you are of a mind, please join me.

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: khandu
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 10:30 PM

Our words are a very powerful force!

k

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 10:37 PM

What is wrong with examining the facts? Before you can set the world right, it really helps to know what exactly it is you are trying to fix.

Otherwise, you're just acting like the hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil monkeys.

Sure we need to be positive and upbeat, but being those things isn't mutually exclusive with being informed citizens with well honed intellects and a good critical sense of judgment and discernment about what is going on in the world around us.

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 10:37 PM

Very good point, Kat. Positive focus gets people a lot farther than agonizing about what is wrong in the World. Being aware of what is wrong, though, can help one formulate positive responses to it.

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: Amos
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 10:54 PM

Kat:

A strong and positive point, and greatly appreciated.

Guest, I submit Kat is talking about a different force than the kind of rationalism you are proposing; more along the lines of spiritual causation than   of intellectual assessment and analysis.

A

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 10:58 PM

rasist people are rubbish, get lost rasict people [and im not jokingf]
.john

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: Amos
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 11:02 PM

John:

It is 4 AM. Go to bed.


Amos

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 11:12 PM

Well, in the 60's when many of us were out on the front lines fighting for humanism and fighting aginst the opposite (i.e. the war, racism, sexism...) we always took time at the end of the battle to celebrate. I think that's what we need to restore.

Fight, party....

Fight, party....

We, by virtue of what we believe, must and will continue the struggle but, like I have said, we need to relax, reflect, regroup and.... party.

(Ahhhh, you got dark Heinenken?)

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 11:16 PM

John, it is not meant that people are racist; it just means the general collective consciousness of humankind.

Guest, I said nothing about not looking at the facts/what "seems" to be the truth. Of course one has to be aware, BUT, one does not need to contribute to that truth by lending it more energy. Amos is correct in that I am speaking of a metaphysical level of consciousness/deliberate action.

Thanks, folks,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 11:16 PM

Step #1: Visualize a world in which George W. Bush is a former President of The United States. Do not waste your time visualizing a world in which peace plays any sort of major role as long as GWB is still in the White House. The two propositions are mutually incompatible.

Step #2: Work to make the vision of a Bushless world a reality.

Step #3: When that vision is a reality you may return to wondering when the hundredth monkey is gonna show up. Otherwise, go back to step #1.

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 11:18 PM

Amos, with all due respect, I want you to understand I'm not intending this post as a flame. But what you said in your post of 10:54 makes no sense to me. Your 11:02 post, however, does. :)

I've never been on board with the positive thinking/positive results line of irrational thinking, because it doesn't match the experiences I and many great spiritual thinkers, have witnessed. My understanding of living a life with authenticity and integrity, is that it looks askance at simplistic ideas that have no proven veracity, except anecdotal evidence from the proselytizers and practioners who hold to such beliefs.

Additionally, I consider an authentic life, attempted to be lived with integrity, includes serving some greater purpose than our own self-interests. Community of public service, giving back through one's job or avocational calling, that sort of thing. I'm the eternal optimist, and I don't think the world is going to hell in a handbasket. Which is why I'm voting Green in November.

I also get tired of being admonished to "be positive" but yet never told exactly how or why I am supposed to do that in a way that actually changes anything by those admonishing me to "be positive".

Having a discerning, critical sense of judgment is the mark of high intelligence. Is there a problem the positive thinkers have with people using their gifts of intelligence that isn't being expressed? A subtext or something? Because everytime someone admonishes me personally (and I'm not suggesting that anyone was actually directing the suggestion to me personally, mind you) to "be positive" it automatically sets off my instinctual bullshit detector. I'm not saying I'm proud about that, I just know that is how I respond to such.

If it was all as simple as "let's not to forget to think positive thoughts" I think we'd all have reached nirvana by now.

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 11:23 PM

i don;t know waht guest onm aboiut at all ! [guset-dont using too many big words wehn its late at night].

monkeys are good, i like monkeys, there was one in tarzan, he was called monkey.

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: mack/misophist
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 12:05 AM

At 11:18, Guest made an excellent point, puting it as nicely as it may be put. Magical thinking is free to every one who chooses it. Just don't require me to do it.

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 12:13 AM

This was a request/invitation, not an admonition: If you are of a mind, please join me.

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 12:39 AM

katlaughing, the problem I'm having is figuring out what exactly it is you are asking people to do by joining you. And I don't mean this blithely or snidely, but what does "if you are of a mind" mean too?

In your original post, you opened by using a combination of phrases/sentence fragments that don't make any sense. You are a writer, I know, so are probably familiar with the idea of bringing clarity to one's writing by using sentence analysis of some sort.

Now, I'm as guilty as the next person when it comes to getting lazy about clarity in my writing. But when someone asks me to clarify what I've said, I do usually try a quick mental sentence diagram to see if I can clear up the miscommunication on my end, by doing a better job of constructing my sentence(s) for them.

I consider myself to be a person of some authenticity and integrity. I think I have a pretty good mind. I am certainly open to communicating about metaphysical issues. But I believe that when discussing something as amorphous as metaphysical concerns, clarity in communication is even more important than bringing clarity to mundane, everyday conversations about mundane, everyday subjects.

I'm not saying I'm refusing to be postive, or that I think others are foolish for wanting to be positive. I'm simply asking for more clarification on what you think that would entail, and how failing to be positive, or choosing not to buy into the groupthink of the day of which you speak, results in what you referred to in your opening post as an inevitable (predetermined?) "continuation of what seems to be, rather than what could be."

BTW, I'm not sure I understand why you are assuming that people aren't already actively working on the things you listed in your post.

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: Amos
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 12:58 AM

Guest:

Although your posts are articulate and well formed, they miss the entire issue raised at the start here. Kat made an interesting point: there is an important distinction between subscribing to the agreed-upon views about the world. and remembering to intend how the world could be. This is important and should not be trivialized by a trite phrase such as "think positive thoughts", which does not accurately represent the point being made.

Choosing to balance our view might have to do with noticing the positive effects that can be achieved by ignoring the distortions of mass media, for example, or seeking out more positive steps that can be taken locally. It's not form e to put words in anyone's mouth, but I think the difference between resonating to what is already agreed-upon, and focusing on positive changes within your own power to project can make a lot of difference in an individual life, and consequently in the lives to which that individual is connected.

Ask not what the state of existence can do for you -- ask what you can do for the state of existence.

Glad you understood my message to John, anyway...

A

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: Bert
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 01:39 AM

With you all the way, Katmeluv. I'm gonna go out and howl at the moon and sing my heart out for anyone who will listen.

And maybe those who don't yet understand you will hear me and learn.



Luvya,

Bert.

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 01:49 AM

For one who doesn't want to be admonished to "think positive" you sure do want a lot spelled out, Guest. You are also doing a lot of assuming on your own; inferring things which I never said. Or, maybe you're just trying to read my mind. *shrug*

Please re-read my original posting. Note the use of such non-declarative words as "seems" and "appears." Read it slowly, without thinking of your next rebuttal. In all my years of writing as a journalist and author, no one, not an editor or reader, has ever complained of not understanding my writing, not even the sublter things.

I wouldn't presume to tell you how to go about joining in. On my part, I will do my best to not feed the flames of negative rhetoric which feeds the miasma of fear which grips our nation/world, for starters.

The original intent of this thread was to suggest, uplift, encourage, and invite. After this posting, I will not debate writing styles, assumptions, nor presumptions in this thread.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 01:51 AM

Excellent, Bertdarlin'! Thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: darkriver
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 02:03 AM

Kat,

would this famous quote from Margaret Mead be similar to what you are saying?

Never doubt that a small, group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.


doug

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 02:10 AM

It's right in line with what I am saying, yes, doug, thanks for posting it. It was that quote we included on everything we printed and passed out when I was a member of the Wyoming Grassroots Project, a human rights org.

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 10:18 AM

OK, so how about for a positive start, people visualize the victory of the Chavez forces in Venezuela and bring the energy of that revolutionary movement into their American lives and art?

I'm totally on board with the idea of creating art that flys in the face of status quo, and being used as a means of claiming our individual creative power, by seizing control of our world for ourselves.

Perhaps if we can't beat fascism at home, blows against the American empire from Latin America will help fuel a new visionary revolution among American artists throughout this hemisphere, so we can collectively rid the world of the pox upon the earth that is the American multinational corporate state.

And Venezuela has oil! A true blow against the empire!

So, am I doing this correctly?

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: GUEST,m
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 06:56 PM

You couldn't have done it more correctlier. Whew.

'rid the world of the pox upon the earth that is the American multinational corporate state'. Poetry, pure poetry.

Subject: RE: BS: A Thin Line & A Modest Proposal
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 09:15 PM

Well thank you, m. Don't forget how high the bar was set with this:

"Call me pollyanna if you'd like, but if we don't offer the power of our minds and words to the good of all, through visualisation, singing, writing, etc. then we are contributing to the continuation of what seems to be, rather than what could be. "

Now for pure poetry, that is a tough act to follow.