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Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women

GUEST,John in Brisbane 23 Aug 04 - 02:39 AM
Peace 23 Aug 04 - 03:44 AM
Liz the Squeak 23 Aug 04 - 04:00 AM
Strollin' Johnny 23 Aug 04 - 06:07 AM
Georgiansilver 23 Aug 04 - 06:43 AM
Wolfgang 23 Aug 04 - 06:54 AM
nutty 23 Aug 04 - 07:09 AM
GUEST, Hamish 23 Aug 04 - 07:11 AM
alanabit 23 Aug 04 - 07:15 AM
GUEST 23 Aug 04 - 07:44 AM
GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) 23 Aug 04 - 09:09 AM
Roger the Skiffler 23 Aug 04 - 09:19 AM
Alonzo M. Zilch (inactive) 23 Aug 04 - 09:21 AM
dick greenhaus 23 Aug 04 - 09:28 AM
GUEST,Folky1 (guest) 23 Aug 04 - 11:26 AM
Georgiansilver 23 Aug 04 - 11:29 AM
GUEST,Spot 23 Aug 04 - 12:30 PM
Clinton Hammond 23 Aug 04 - 12:31 PM
Midchuck 23 Aug 04 - 12:45 PM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Aug 04 - 12:50 PM
JennyO 23 Aug 04 - 01:12 PM
muppitz 23 Aug 04 - 02:03 PM
Cluin 23 Aug 04 - 02:43 PM
Phil Cooper 23 Aug 04 - 03:27 PM
John in Brisbane 24 Aug 04 - 03:48 AM
erinmaidin 24 Aug 04 - 05:31 AM
Susanne (skw) 24 Aug 04 - 06:07 PM
Joe_F 24 Aug 04 - 06:08 PM
Juan P-B 24 Aug 04 - 06:17 PM
*Laura* 25 Aug 04 - 04:46 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 25 Aug 04 - 05:13 PM
GUEST,hsa 26 Aug 04 - 10:14 AM
open mike 26 Aug 04 - 12:40 PM
GUEST,JTT 26 Aug 04 - 04:58 PM
Cluin 26 Aug 04 - 11:04 PM
gecko 27 Aug 04 - 03:50 AM
gecko 27 Aug 04 - 04:47 AM
Susanne (skw) 28 Aug 04 - 03:43 AM
Dani 28 Aug 04 - 06:44 PM
breezy 29 Aug 04 - 11:32 AM
Willa 30 Aug 04 - 08:58 AM
shepherdlass 30 Aug 04 - 05:18 PM
Bert 30 Aug 04 - 06:28 PM
Herga Kitty 30 Aug 04 - 07:05 PM
GUEST,Suzi 30 Aug 04 - 07:26 PM
GUEST 30 Aug 04 - 07:40 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 30 Aug 04 - 08:06 PM
JennyO 30 Aug 04 - 11:34 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 30 Aug 04 - 11:58 PM
Bert 31 Aug 04 - 01:19 AM
Willa 31 Aug 04 - 03:54 PM
Big Al Whittle 31 Aug 04 - 06:37 PM
Susanne (skw) 31 Aug 04 - 06:42 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 31 Aug 04 - 09:33 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 31 Aug 04 - 10:01 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 31 Aug 04 - 10:03 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 31 Aug 04 - 10:08 PM
GUEST,McKwaig 01 Sep 04 - 02:27 AM
Dani 01 Sep 04 - 09:55 AM
Dani 01 Sep 04 - 09:56 AM
Midchuck 01 Sep 04 - 10:02 AM
Willa 02 Sep 04 - 05:11 PM
Eric the Streetsinger 02 Sep 04 - 05:37 PM
Marion 03 Sep 04 - 01:57 AM
GUEST 03 Sep 04 - 02:04 AM
GUEST,alinact 04 Sep 04 - 11:24 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 04 Sep 04 - 11:36 PM
GUEST,alinact 05 Sep 04 - 04:01 AM
Willa 05 Sep 04 - 04:27 PM
alinact 05 Sep 04 - 11:18 PM
GUEST 17 Jan 05 - 08:44 PM
Uncle_DaveO 18 Jan 05 - 10:32 AM
beeliner 26 Jul 10 - 03:01 AM
GUEST,Larry Saidman 26 Jul 10 - 01:32 PM
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GUEST,Guest from Sanity 16 Apr 11 - 10:06 AM
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Subject: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST,John in Brisbane
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 02:39 AM

I'm currently in Cairns and Janet Hughes has asked me to nominate some songs on this subject. Suffice it to say that my knowledge is limited. Janet wishes to put together a musical programme to highlight the subject of physical abuse for both white and indigenous consumption. Unfortunately Janet sees and hears about abuse all too frequently.

While this is a super serious problem, she has requested that the songs are not too dirge-like - a tall ask in my opinion.

All assistance would be very much appreciated. The question of finding tunes for what I'm sure will be powerful lyrics may be difficult, but I'll tackle that problem as it arises.

Regards, John


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Peace
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 03:44 AM

creativefolk.com/abusesongs.html


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 04:00 AM

There's a song that Martin Carthy does about a man who beats his wife, she gets her revenge by sewing him into the bed and then lamming him with a skillet. I can't remember the words, and when I last saw Martin do it at Towersey a few years back, he couldn't either!

A quick search in the DT for various keywords failed to get a clue either, sorry. A search for Martin's back catalogue might do it, but I'm supposed to be at work!

LTS


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 06:07 AM

Try Harvey Andrews' song 'PG', it's on 'The Margarita Collection' CD. Very masterful, very insightful, very moving. A masterpiece.

Can't do blue clickies, just search on 'Harvey Andrews' for his website.

SJ


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 06:43 AM

On a lighthearted sort of note(Not that abuse itself is lighthearted of course).."Capstick comes home" is a comedy song but has a man abusing his wife in it. Best wishes.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Wolfgang
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 06:54 AM

A stitch in time (that's what Liz means)

Glasgow Lullaby (in the DT)

the DT keyword search for such songs would be @abuse.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: nutty
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 07:09 AM

Blue Bleezin Blind drunk is a favourite of mine .....its in the DT.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST, Hamish
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 07:11 AM

Suzanne Vega's "Luca". Brilliant.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: alanabit
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 07:15 AM

Two contemporary songs are Suzanne Vega's brilliant "Luka" and Tracy Chapman's "Behind the Wall". They should be easy enough to find with a Google search.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 07:44 AM

One you may not have heard of:

Jim King Glasgow-based songwiter has a song which is exactly on this subject:

"Blood Red Roses"

- will you try to buy your way back in with a dozen blood-red roses?...


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 09:09 AM

'Prince Heathen' by Martin Carthy
'The Old Oak Tree' from the first Boys Of The Lough album
All I can think of right now - which is probably a good thing.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 09:19 AM

Presumably you don't want murder songs (Banks of the Ohio, Tom Dooley etc)?
Some versions of Trouble in Mind have:

"I'm gonna grab me a picket
From my neighbour's fence
Gonna whup ma woman
Till she learns some sense"

RtS


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Alonzo M. Zilch (inactive)
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 09:21 AM

One of the most powerful I know of is "She Sits on the Table" by Tom Paxton.

Tom has recorded it twice. It's on The Paxton Report (Mountain Railroad) and Best of Friends with Anne Hills & Bob Gibson (Applesed).


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 09:28 AM

PI, but classic--
The Wee Cooper O'Fife


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST,Folky1 (guest)
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 11:26 AM

Peggy Seeger has written two great songs on this topic, both true stories based on interviews with the women involved.

"Winnie and Sam" is a blues with a bouncy melody that is quite un-dirge-like.

"Emily" on the other hand is quiet, haunting and gripping in its telling of the story from the beginning of the relationship, through the abuse to her finally getting up the courage to leave the abuser. I remember hearing it on the radio for the first time. It was one of those songs that just makes you stop whatever you are doing and listen. The last verse interjects some hope to the song. Great song.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 11:29 AM

Tracy Chapman.."Last night I heard the screaming"


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST,Spot
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 12:30 PM

Mudcats own Strupag has written one of the best 'Calum Moore' Covered by Vin Garbutt. It's a must.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 12:31 PM

That's actually called "Behind The Wall" GS, and alanabit already suggested it...

My suggestions...

"Never So Lonely" by Garnet Rogers

Tommy swung a brush hook for the county all last year
Now he sits in some dark pool hall,
Pulling on a long necked beer
On one hand's tattooed the word""
On the other hand there is "hate"
He lights a smoke and rubs the scars on his knuckles

His wife is living here on borrowed time
She needs a place to call her own
Tommy's out, she can't stay here
Where she once called home
The marks of his "too-perfect" love are a shadow on her face
She shakes and waits beside him in the darkness

Never felt so lonely as when lying in his bed
The fear that lay between them
The brutal words he'd said
No more of flinching from his hands
No more of living with this fear
She's bought her ticket, she's made her plans
He's not worth another tear

She says she knows it's wrong
But while he's gone she sometimes misses him
The feeling comes too often
Stays too long, like phantom pain from a missing limb
She knows she's safer on her own
Thank God there were no kids
But had there been she till would
Find a way to leave him

Morning can't come too soon for her
She's up before the dawn
Tiptoes past him, locks his door
Waits out on the lawn
She looks back at the silent house
As the windows start to glow
And with her finger writes "Good-bye"
upon his windshield


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Midchuck
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 12:45 PM

Well, you're talking about maybe a third to a half of all bluegrass songs.

Gillian Welch's "Caleb Meyer" is good. Heard her do it on PHC, and it was the only time Garrison was ever speachless.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 12:50 PM

"Calum Moore" was written by "Andy Mitchel of Ullapool in Scotland" according to Vin Garbutt's notes on his LP "Little Innocents", which contains the song.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: JennyO
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 01:12 PM

There is a song in Australia which I love, called "He Says" by Karen Lynne. Here is a link to her website which has the lyrics, and an MP3 sample of the chorus of the song. It is on the album "Labour of Love".

I think I will post the lyrics here too:

He Says

(Karen Lynne Frencham, Heather Field)

I am walking in the garden, why don't I just walk out
and shut the gate behind me and forget
I could go and live in Melbourne
Just the kids and me
And I know he'd never find me there and yet

He'd be all alone without us
And I'd miss him when he's kind
Though I wouldn't miss his anger, or the pain
And maybe like he tells me, I'm just a useless fool
And I'm lucky to have a husband anyway

Chorus

He says he loves me and,
He says he's sorry and,
He says he needs me and it'll never happen again
But he says its my fault
Everytime he hurts me and,
I'm the one who's sorry for what he says in the end.

I dreamed that life with him would be like those fairytales
But it's a tragedy unwritten and unspoken
And though I lie to those around me,
and the bruises fade with time
It's much more than my bones that he has broken.

Chorus


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: muppitz
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 02:03 PM

One that hasn't been mentioned yet is "Blue Old Saturday Night", it's a Julie Matthews song which is on the Intuition album she did with Kathleen and Rosalie Deighton, Pat Shaw, Kate Rusby and Kathryn Roberts, John Wright did it on "The Things We've Handed Down".
I know the John Wright album is no longer available, not sure about the Intuition album.

I can hear the sound of your footsteps walking down the hall
Echo of the the door, it's slam, shook a picture off the wall
You start the car in the drive outside
Hit the pedal and you're gone
If leaving me is oh so easy, why bother coming home?

Chorus
Oh, old blue, old Saturday night
My baby's left me in tears again
Oh, old blue, old Saturday night
I'm on the rocks and he's rolling away

Oh how you hate the sound of raised voices
How yours would raise when I'd start to cry
And the trembling lips and the trembling fingers
Reached out to you and made your temper fly
I can't live here in this grey, grey world
I'm too afraid to speak my mind
And if leaving me means oh so little to you
Then coming back is just a lie

Chorus

When you get home and the lights are all out
You'll fumble at the doorway to turn them on
You'll stumble to the bedroom but the bed will be empty
Look around the house, you'll find me gone
And you'll remember all those silent moments
And they'll be ringing in your ears
There won't be voices raised tonight, but maybe there'll be tears

Oh old blue, old Saturday night
Your baby's left you in tears
Oh old blue, old Saturday night
You're on the rocks and I'm rolling away


Lovely song, Rosalie Deighton sings it on the Intuition album and makes a great job of it.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Cluin
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 02:43 PM

Marie and He
by Lennie Gallant

Marie and he, they lived down by the shore
I lived alone in a house they called next door
A quarter mile farther down the road from there
But it was close enough that I could always hear

Marie was only twenty-two, with three kids
Big sea-green eyes, but then they were mostly hid
Dark glasses covering all the damage he'd done
After his nights out on the rum

In the nearby town, everyone knew the score
From whispered stories traded down at the store
They could pretend they'd never seen `neath the shades
But every night I'd hear her meet his rage

We always played together, when we were young
They called her my sister though I never had one
I thought our time together would never end
But she was much sought after then


I remember the day he first sailed into town
I watched him watching her as she walked around
I felt as though a lifetime slipped through my hands
As Marie and he walked on the sands

But then the sands all washed away, leaving rocks
And he beat her and blamed her for his lousy job on the docks
No friends or money; he'd just rave about the sea
And tell his lies of how she wouldn't set him free

(chorus)

Last night I walked down the road by the shore
I just couldn't bear to hear her take it anymore
I waited for him to come staggering home
And I sent his body back to sea alone

(chorus)


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 03:27 PM

Roseanne Cash did a song on an older recording called, I believe, Rosie Strike Back and also in the country field there's Gretchen Peters' song Independence Day. In the Child Ballads there's Lord Thomas and Lady Margaret (Lady Margaret gets hunted by Lord Thomas's dogs and later poisons Lord Thomas).


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 03:48 AM

Such marvellous responses - thank you! I hope to be back home in 48 hours and will then commence the deeper research based on your inputs.

Best Regards, John


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: erinmaidin
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 05:31 AM

I always found the song Anneke Gordon, chilling in the way she was forced into a loveless marriage to the point where her father demanded her bridesmaids remove her clothes and put her unwillingly into bed with her unwanted husband. I believe it poignantly points to the traditional abuse of daughters as bartering material for goods and gain.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 06:07 PM

'Steady As She Goes' by Brian McNeill is about a woman finally leaving an abusive relationship. Recorded on 'No Gods' (1995).

'Montreal, December '89' by Judy Small is about a mass murder of women at the University of Montreal in December '89. It asks 'Why is it always men who resort to the gun, the sword and the fist?' Recorded on 'Snapshot' (1990).

'Crying Inside' by Heather Jones and Liz Fordek also highlights the plight of battered women, though personally I find it rather a tear-jerker. Recorded on 'Valley Lights' (1986), a sampler of Welsh songwriting.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Joe_F
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 06:08 PM

Plenty of the Child ballads have such stuff in them. You might particularly like Eppie Morrie, wherein the heroine fights back for a whole night, whereupon the ruffian who has abducted her is a good sport & lets her go. Not a dull line in it.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Juan P-B
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 06:17 PM

I suppose this comes under the definition of 'abuse' - Cracking song though

Angel Of Mercy (Ron Trueman-Border)

Victoria station at eleven-fifteen
She's drinking cold coffee by the ticket machine
The crowd's pushing by her and in each stranger's face
She sees an angel of mercy, fallen from grace

On the back streets of Soho she stumbles and falls
And there in the darkness by the tenement walls
She slips that sweet needle way down deep in her vein
She hears that angel of mercy whispering her name

Once she was pretty. Once she was young
And the sweet taste of life was like wine on her tongue
Now the wine's turned to water and the years have slipped away
She hears that angel of mercy calling "Judgement Day"

Now there's nowhere she can run to. Nowhere she can hide
So she steps into that back-seat and she swallows her pride
And as she gives up her body she closes her eyes
Feels that angel of mercy right there by her side

So she slips into the church. Falls down to her knees
Makes the sign of the cross and prays, "Sweet Jesus! Please,
If my sins can't be forgiven and if my soul cannot be saved
Send down an Angel of Mercy to lead me to my grave

Chorus
She hears the beat of the drum and the toll of the bell
She's torn between kingdom come and the heartbreak hotel
Tonight she's walking in the wilderness. Into the great unknown
Sweet angel of mercy come down and carry her home


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: *Laura*
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 04:46 PM

Agree with Chris B (guest) Martin Carthy's 'Prince Heathen' is pretty chilling! But still manages to be quite inspiring.

xLx


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 05:13 PM

Try also Kristina Olson's   The Yellow Piper---about being subservient and then finally coming into your own. She also has a few other things on various CDs.

I don't know if Phil Ochs---Small Circle Of Friends qualifies since it is about a true incident of rape and murder---but not by a relative.



Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST,hsa
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 10:14 AM

Try this one, covered by Sean Keane on "Turn a Phrase". I think it's a superb sensitive song for someone with the right voice.



Writing On The Wall

Lyrics By: Mick Hanly

I've broken all your bones
And promises I gave,
Sat upon some throne,
Like the one who owned a slave.
And I never had the guts
To turn to you at all
And I constantly ignored
The writing on the wall

I've listened to your dreams
With one ear on the shelf,
Fed you reams and reams
Of stuff about myself,
And I ploughed on like the blind
Regardless of a fall
Because I couldn't see
The writing on the wall

And when the hammer fell,
It was like a mortal blow
And I turned around to see
Someone I didn't know.
And I thought I knew you well,
Oh, I thought I knew it all,
But I never thought I'd see
The writing on the wall

We hurt the ones we love,
To see how they might bend,
Push our luck so far
That we break them in the end.
And the day that we wake up
They've gone beyond recall
Because we couldn't see the writing on the wall



Helen


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: open mike
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 12:40 PM

I think i remember there might be some songs along these lines from
Jane Voss, will listen and report back


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 04:58 PM

Does shootin' your woman down count?

Cooper of Fife:

He's laid the sheepskin across her back
Nickety nackety noo, noo. noo
And with a good stick he went whickety-whack
Risselty-rosselty, hey, pomposity
Nickety nackety noo, noo, noo.

Then there's the bluegrass one about the fellow who says:

"Now if I had a scolding wife
I sure would whup her some..."

(though a friend whose people come from Misery says that this suggests he's "whipped", not her).


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Cluin
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 11:04 PM

"Knoxville Girl" by the Louvin Brothers

"Tom Dooley" by the Kingston Trio

"The Old Oak Tree" by Boys of the Lough


All songs with the same basic theme of the murdered young lover, either stabbed or clubbed to death (and drowned for good measure).


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: gecko
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 03:50 AM

Please accept my sincere thanks for your response to John's message. I now have more material than I can use but you might be interested to know that the 'Liverpool Lullaby' answers my needs perfectly - and Eric Bogle will be attending the Folk Festival where my workshop will be held so I hope he'll come up trumps and sing it for us!
As a very new Mudcat member I'm more than impressed with this site. janetH


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: gecko
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 04:47 AM

Well, I got that wrong, didn't I? Bogle wrote, and I hope he'll sing, 'Glasgow Lullaby'! Silly me!
May your weekend be memorable.
janetH


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 28 Aug 04 - 03:43 AM

Janet, it was quite clear to me what you meant, and I hope he'll do it. He's a nice bloke. Hope your workshop goes well and you'll come back to the Mudcat to let us know. I'm off to Tonder Festival now, where I've seen Eric before (not this year, though).


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Dani
Date: 28 Aug 04 - 06:44 PM

How about "Do You Love An Apple"?

Dani


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: breezy
Date: 29 Aug 04 - 11:32 AM

Polly on the Shore ??? maybe by Lester Simpson


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Willa
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 08:58 AM

The Martin carthy song mentioned arly in the thread is 'Stitch in Time' and it's in the DT.

'Must I be bound?'also ends on a positive note.

Willa


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: shepherdlass
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 05:18 PM

Tommy Armstrong's "Bobby and Bet" - it's in the printed song collections but I don't know of a recording. Also, the "Sandgate Lass's Lament" - High Level Ranters on the CD version of the "Iron Muse".


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Bert
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 06:28 PM

Eileen Tipping has a really great one. You'll find her with a Google search.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 07:05 PM

John Warner's Kitty Kane ... "pregnancy, injury, theft and brutality threatened and scarred me again and again..." and "rough drunken brutes with the manners of cattle who let me lie bleeding and shaking with pain, but I served them their drinks while my bruises were healing..."

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST,Suzi
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 07:26 PM

RON TRUEMAN-BORDER has written a song..BATTERED WIVES key of D for guitar

D             Bm7
Nobody sees...few people know
             Em7                     A
He's always careful to hit you where the bruises don't show
         D                  Bm7
Forever suffering in silence,holding back the tears
       Em7                         A
And it's,"Don't scream too loud now the neighbours might hear"

             G   D             A D          G D             A   D A
CHORUS:Battered lovers,battered wives,battered mothers,shattered lives


When she was expecting she thought things might change
But bad went to worse,just bringing more of the same
She knew she should leave then but where could she go
When your barefoot and pregnant no one wants to know

CHORUS:
       Bm               G                        D
BRIDGE:Beaten black and blue there's nothing she can do
                         A                         Bm
       No shoulder to cry upon no one she can turn to
       Bm                      G                         D
       And though the scars may heal and though the wounds may mend
                            A                  F#7   Bm Em A
       For her the hurt goes on somehow it never ends

Her spirit's been broken she's been bent to his will
By the belt and the fist by those looks that could kill
Now she goes through the motions day after day
Looking for oblivion in a valium haze
INST CHORUS:
Tonight he's been drinking,tomorrow she'll find
Him sober and sorry just like the last time
It's that old vicious circl,sick and obscene
Where the abuse and the violence have become routine
CHORUS:
BRIDGE: And the police will call,there's voices in the hall
       They'll ask about your slip,they'll hear about your fall
       And surely it's a shame but no one can be blamed
       It was an accident these things happen after all

Nobody sees, few people know
And all the surveys and statistics can never ever show
How it feels to be that woman at the mercy of that man
And unless you've been a victimyou can't understand

CHORUS:

Ron's website is www.folking.com/rontruemanborder if you would like to cantact him about this song


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 07:40 PM

HEY!

BERT
Shepard's Ass
Will Ya?
Drafty John
Dan E
Mike Open (mouth - insert ???)

Looky folkys - it is a DISCUSSION forum ----PLEASE POST the lyrics!!! and give a citation for your source.... (unless they ARE in the DT collection of classics)..then give a link.

You know the artist, you know the correct lyrics, you know the sources.....as a "lyrical community" we all need to contribute more than your pitiful references within this thread.....

HOW CAN YOU DISCUSS "you will find her on GOOGLE" "she had a great one?"

GET OFF your pathetic SORRY LAZY ASSES - (feed your donkies) and CONTRIBUTE - if you have the knowledge - acknowledge - give back to the college.

This HAD potential to become a MudCat Classic Thread - but it withers before its Fall.....with your sort of "contributions" the traditions would be dead!

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 08:06 PM

Janet H:   Topic aside (not music) lucky you having Bogle appear. To me the most talented individual---and also the warmest one. Had the pleasure of meeting and interviewing---I think I put the mic. in a glass case after that. Damned expensive buying another one.

Send him the regards and god-speed from Bill Hahn WFDU in Teaneck NJ.


Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: JennyO
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 11:34 PM

You have a point Gargoyle. Kitty Kane is on an album of Walters and Warner called "Pithead in the Fern". Margaret Walters' website is here It contains the lyrics of many excellent John Warner songs, including Kitty Kane. Margaret Walters sings it and so does Herga Kitty. Short of recommending buying the album, I don't know how to give anyone the tune. I can't find an MP3 of it anywhere. I will post the lyrics here anyway:


KITTY KANE
© John Warner 8/11/93

I came up the Thomson with thousands of others,
When Walhalla's gold worked its wild, shining spell.
I was young, I was pretty, I called myself Kitty,
I offered the best jewels a woman could sell.
A length of fine velvet in well fitting burgundy,
Tight round the curves where a man's eyes would fall,
Lace at the edges and eyes full of laughter,
Oh young Kitty Kane was the pride of them all.

Chorus
I might take a walk by the wild Thomson River
Where the Mountain Ash rise in the soft, misty rain,
There's gold in the range and there's gold in the memories
Of the lady of pleasure they call Kitty Kane.

* As the wealth from the mining flowed into the valley,
I moved from a shanty up to a hotel.
I'd seen enough squalor, I saved enough silver
To make me a place where I'd play the game well.
Pregnancy, injury, theft and brutality
Threatened and scarred me, again and again,
But in black lace and silver, I waltzed with the miners,
And shone in their vision, for I'm Kitty Kane.

The publican brought a piano from Melbourne,
I could tell you right now, it was never in tune,
But the work-weary diggers came crowding to hear it
When Samson would play in the late afternoon.
On nights when Walhalla lit up like a fire,
And the miners were roaring some boozy refrain,
There would always be eyes lit with lust and desire,
And bright gold for evenings with young Kitty Kane.

There were schemers and sailors and bearded old diggers,
Whose tough, hairy hides had the gravel ground in,
Young men far from home who still needed a mother,
And sad, furtive parsons who needed to sin.
Rough, drunken brutes with the manners of cattle,
Who let me lie bleeding and shaking in pain,
I've served them their drinks while my bruises were healing,
And I laughed and I shone, I was still Kitty Kane.

I've heard the men singing down at the piano,
That youth, it soon passes, and beauty will fade,
But I gave them their pleasure when I was past forty,
It's the light in the eyes made me queen of my trade.
Though Walhalla now is all merchants and farmers,
Whose wives see in me what they think of as shame,
I'll die in this valley with fine, singing memories,
My name's Kitty Kane, I was best in the game.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 11:58 PM

Nice posting Jenny O....much better...in fact

Well Done!

thanks for the meat.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Bert
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 01:19 AM

Sorry about that, you are right Garg ol' buddy,

I only heard it a couple of times and I can't remember the title. It's a girl's song so I didn't learn it. I don't have her permission to post any contact info. So I didn't.

I searched for a while but she hasn't posted the lyrics to that one on her website

Bert.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Willa
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 03:54 PM

Gargoyle.
I was surprised to find that 'Must I be bound' is not in the DT. Different versions are mentioned in this thread.
thread.cfm?threadid=31277#405846


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 06:37 PM

The andrrews sisters Beat me Daddy Eight to the Bar
Can't find my Robert Johnson lyric booklet - but theres certainly some reference to woman beating in his stuff


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 06:42 PM

None of the lyrics I suggested seem to be in Forum or DT yet. However, they can be found here:

Steady As She Goes

Montreal, December '89

Crying Inside


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 09:33 PM

I stand to be educated -

Please explain, the rational (three points of argument would be nice, but two would suffice)

HOW - the Boogie Woogie classic, Beat Me Daddy - Eight to the Bar could possibly be considered "violence to women?"

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 10:01 PM

Willa - if you are surprised (and I am too) and you have them (the lyrics)....PLEASE post them ... in a new thread as an addition to the DT....then others can augment what they know.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 10:03 PM

Whoooaaaa! Jumpin' JeeeHosephat!!!!!

Someone got my motor burnin' and the fumes a spewin'

Step back HonkyKat - we need a new attitude!

Seriously, I was fuming and ready to start flaming when the honky-tonk classic Beat Me Daddy - Eight to the Bar appeared within this thread....

(But....we are all MC 'neighbors' and likewise.....we sometimes know another's 'buttons.' Thankfully, the thread crashed thrice...and I re-booted twice.))

I can now step-back and chuckle - well done!!!! Many "feminists" under the age 50 could (but, probably would not) constru the title to woman/child abuse by a domineering male.

To prevent confusion:

Here are the lyrics - and a delightful rendition is done by the Andrew Sisters.

Beat Me Daddy Eight to the Bar

:

In a little honky-tonky village in Texas
There's a guy who plays the best piano by far
He can play piano any way that you like it
But the way he likes to play is eight to the bar
When he plays, it's a ball
He's the daddy of them all

The people gather around when he gets on the stand
Then when he plays, he gets a hand
The rhythm he beats puts the cats in a trance
Nobody there bothers to dance
But when he plays with the bass and guitar
They holler out, "Beat me Daddy, eight to the bar"

A-plink, a-plank, a-plink plank, plink plank
A-plunkin' on the keys
A-riff, a-raff, a-riff raff, riff raff
A-riffin' out with ease
And when he plays with the bass and guitar
They holler out, "Beat me Daddy, eight to the bar"

He plays a boogie, he plays eight to the bar
A boogie-woogie, that is the way he likes to play on his piano
And we all know
That when he plays he puts them all in a trance
The cats all holler "Hooray"
You'll hear them say, "Beat me Daddy, eight to the bar"

In a little honky-tonky village in Texas
There's a guy who plays the best piano by far
When he plays with the bass and guitar
They holler, "Beat me up Daddy, beat me Daddy, eight to the bar"

The people gather around when he gets up on the stand
Then when he plays, he gets a hand
The rhythm that he plays puts the cats in a trance
Nobody there ever bothers to dance
But when he plays with the bass and guitar
They holler out, "Beat me Daddy, eight to the bar"

A-plink plink, a-plank plank, a-plink plank, plink plank
A-plunkin' on the keys
A-riff riff, a-raff raff, a-riff raff, riff raff
A-riffin' out with ease
But when he plays with the bass and guitar
They holler out, "Beat me Daddy, eight to the bar"

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

This is one of the keyboard-classics it exalts womankind - and does not demean them.

It also exalts keyboard players - which is why it may have gotten my goat.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 10:08 PM

Isn't there a restriction against children under age 21 gathering and posting in the MudCat Cafe?

This IS based in the New England states of the USA - (can't we become a little more puritanical?)

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST,McKwaig
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 02:27 AM

The only song I know of that fits into that category is Only Women, by Alice Cooper.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Dani
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 09:55 AM

From Sweet Honey in the Rock, words and music by
Nitanju Bolade Casel

VERSE 1:
I don't even know in which direction I should go
But I'm sure it's the right thing to do
It's time to make a move.
The first time I was shoved, I should have been out the door.
But I accepted the apologies and open myself up for more...
Abuses
Excuses
Abuses
Excuse me!

I don't have to live this way.
I am leaving you today.
Abuses
Excuses
Abuses
Excuse me!
I don't have to suffer anymore
I'm walking right out of the door...

VERSE 2:
Some of my "so-called" friends advised me to stick around
But they're not the ones getting cursed and slapped
or beaten down to the ground.
They say financial security is hard to come by for a woman like me
And for the children I need a good home,
and I should sacrifice until they're grown...with
Abuses
Excuses
Abuses
Excuse me!

I don't have to live this way.
I am leaving you today.
Abuses
Excuses
Abuses
Excuse me!
I don't have to suffer anymore
I'm walking right out of the door...

(CHORUS: I am gonna run far away from here....)

VERSE 3:
Now, I don't blame myself for the present situation.
For this kind of behavior there is no justification
I'm looking ahead to the future but I won't forget the past
I won't repeat this part of my life, I'm thankful it's over at last
No more...
Abuses
Excuses
Abuses
Excuse me!

I don't have to live this way.
I am leaving you today.
Abuses
Excuses
Abuses
Excuse me!
I don't have to suffer anymore
I'm walking right out of the door...


Run... to a shelter
Run... to a friend
Run... for my life
Before it comes to an end.
(CHORUS: I am gonna run far away from here....)


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Dani
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 09:56 AM

Sorry, it's called "RUN".

Dani


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Midchuck
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 10:02 AM

Remember Tom Rush's early recording of "Sugar Babe?"

All I want my Sugar to do,
Make five dollars and give me two...

Goin' down town and get me a line.
Gonna whup that woman 'till she change her mind...

Goin' down town and get me a rope,
Whup that woman 'till she buzzard-lope...


Ah, I miss the elegant simplicity of the great classics.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Willa
Date: 02 Sep 04 - 05:11 PM

Gargoyle
I have dutifully opened a new thread!


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Eric the Streetsinger
Date: 02 Sep 04 - 05:37 PM

There is one by Australian singer, Archie Roach called "Walking Into Doors"

"you're a man- you say you understand, but you don't
you say you'll lend a helping hand but you won't.
well i'm a man, and i understand, but i sleep at night
i say that what you put her through- it isn't right!
it isn't right.

so brother, don't hurt her anymore
she's got her way, you've got yours.
and she's sick and tired of walking into doors."

Thats the gist of it.
terrifically sad, yet hopeful song.
beautiful melody.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Marion
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 01:57 AM

The Flag (by a Canadian band called Barenaked Ladies, on the "Gordon" album)

The phone rings, it's early, it's seven o'clock
He says "Sorry I woke you, but I just had to talk
You know last night, remember when I tried to choke you
I didn't mean it, I was drunk, it was only a joke,
You should know that by now
When the checkered flag comes down
No one, no one, no one has won the race."

The next night he's over, and over and under
And after he's finished, she lies there and wonders
Just why does she need him, and why does she stay here
And then in the darkness she'll quietly say, "Dear,
You've never really known
That when the white flag is flown
No one, no one, no one has won the war."

They're complicated people leading complicated lives
And he complicates their problems telling complicated lies
He tells her he's sorry, she tells him it's over,
He tells her he's sorry, she says over and over
"You've never really known
That when the white flag is flown
No one, no one, no one has won the war."

[There is a fourth verse that I can't remember, but it's kind of abstract and has no obvious connection to the story verses.]

Someone above mentioned Luca, a song from Suzanne Vega which I heard a lot in the 80's - although I think it's about a little girl, not a woman. Here is my memory of the lyrics - quite close on, I believe.

My name is Luca
I live on the second floor
I live upstairs from you
Yes, I think you've seen me before
If you hear something late at night
Some kind of trouble, some kind of fight
Just don't ask me what it was
Just don't ask me what it was.

chorus:
They only hit until you cry
After that you don't ask why
You just don't argue anymore
You just don't argue anymore

Yes I think I'm OK
Walked into the door again
If you ask, that's what I'll say
It's not your business anyway

chorus:
I think I'd like to live alone
Nothing broken, nothing thrown
Just don't ask me how I am
Just don't ask me how I am

repeat first chorus:

Couple of questions for you, John in Brisbane:

1. The songs that have come up in this thread are mostly about men battering women. Do you also want to know about songs that talk about rape or child molestation? Or about violence in gay relationships? Or other forms of misogynist violence (genital mutilation, honour killings, female infanticide etc.)?

2. The modern songs that have been mentioned here are all written from a socially aware, anti-violence perspective. Would you have any use in your presentation for modern songs that are genuinely misogynist - like a "listen to what kids are hearing, this is what we're up against" portion of the program?

Marion


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 02:04 AM

Good point Marion!

If you want to move out of "folk" and on into the ghetto - there are songs that will straighten your kinky curls under a do-rag and make Aunt Jamima's dugs sag down to the rug - whoooeee girl - if you want to go there - its a fine kettle of fish you be stirrin.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST,alinact
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 11:24 PM

A song from Frankie Armstrong, of which (sorry, Gargoyle) I have absolutely no details, and which I assume is called Nothing Between Us (lyrics below).

Also, No Half Measures by Alistair Hulett,which to quote from the songbook The Song Goes On, edited by Lynne Tracey, was "written after reading one woman's account of life with an alcoholic husband. What was most moving about this woman's story was the absence of judgement or bitterness, just sorrowat the useless waste of an intelligent mind"

And for all you closet punk rockers out there, a song (and I use the term very loosely) called The Boiler by Rhoda with The Special A.K.A featuring Nicky Summers. This piece is quite harrowing listening and is about the rape of a girl, and finishes with about 5 minutes of primordial screaming by "Rhoda".

Allan

NOT MUCH BETWEEN US

I was walking along some side street down in Brockley (?)
when I heard a woman singing something softly.
She was thinking aboutthe husband she'd done without
since the day he went away and then he never came back.
Singing to him she was a little too late because
the last thing he'd ever done was leave her flat.
These are the words she sang , I can hear them now.

Can't hardly believe you ever really loved me, did ya'.
Though your mates all said you swore you'd have me, didn't ya'.
Well, you had me too, and I loved you,
thought you was happy with me.
Didn't we get married, and didn't I carry
those two kids we had, you give me.
We made them between us,
is there nothing between us now?

Not much between us that Saturday night I met you,
'ceptin' the girl come with you, you soon had to ditch her.
Never said much, you and me, never had to,
we done alright without it.
'Cos I fancied you, and you fancied me
that's all there was about it.
Atre them days all over,
no, never there between us now.

Nothing between us, that first night we slept together.
Naked and aching to be one another's lovers forever.
If you'd been honest you wouldn't have promised,
now there's a new head on your pillow.
She don't know you yet, the way I do,
times she does it will likely kill her.
Your girl comes between us,
is that nothing between us now?

Not much love lost between us, precious little left like.
We ain't together no more, but the wounds will never heal, like.
'Cos there's been things said and there's been things done,
perhaps you could have hit me harder.
Now there's an empty half of bed, and your clothes are gone
and two kids without a father.
Yet you write me a letter saying
there's not much between us now.

So you walked out the door for good an' all then, ain't ya'.
Left your wife and your past and your kids and their future behind ya'
Now one week in four your cheque comes through the door,
it's the least you can get away with.
Rolled up so small, can't hardly see it at all,
are we just things you play with?
Hating and hurting,
that's whats between us now.

Was it the kids come between us, didn't half make you jelous?
I really believed you'd rather I'd been out with other fellas.
But it was you who was off to a new job up north,
where you met and fell in love with someone.
You been two years gone, I.ve had to soldier on,
but I'm learning to be me own woman.
But how can you tell
there's nothing between us now?

Oh, how can you tell me
there's nothing between us now?


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 11:36 PM

Just curious ALL0-in-AN-act

If YOU state that the song is called:
Nothing Between Us

Why do you title it:
NOT MUCH BETWEEN US?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

ANOTHER EXAMPLE of: The "digital" becoming more "oral-like" every day.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST,alinact
Date: 05 Sep 04 - 04:01 AM

Ooooh - I knew you would be a Pedantic SOB - purely a slip of the keyboard.

Allan


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Willa
Date: 05 Sep 04 - 04:27 PM

Alinact
The song is called 'Nothing Between Us Now' and is Track 5 on Frankie's 'I Heard a Woman Singing', released 1998, Flying Fish Records 332. If you go to the Amazon site you can hear a sound clip. (Hope that'll keep Gargoyle happy!)
Best wishes.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: alinact
Date: 05 Sep 04 - 11:18 PM

Thanks, Willa.

Allan


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 08:44 PM

I've just been watching a Dixie Chicks DVD (live at Kodak Theatre) for the first time. This song caught my attention as a toe tapping song that's relevant to the cause.

The Dixie Chicks
Goodbye Earl
Written by - Dennis Linde
From - Fly

Maryanne and Wanda were the best of friends
All through their high school days
Both members of the 4-H club
Both active in the FFA
After graduation Maryanne went out
Looking for a bright new world
Wanda looked all around this town
And all she found was Earl
Well it wasn't two weeks after she got married
That Wanda started getting abused
She put on dark glasses, and long sleeved blouses
And makeup to cover her bruise
Well she finally got the nerve to file for divorce
She let the law take it from there
But Earl walked right through that restraining order
And put her in intensive care
Right away Maryanne flew in from Atlanta
On a red eye, midnight flight
She held Wanda's hand, and they worked out a plan
And it didn't take them long to decide

That Earl had to die...

Goodbye Earl
Those black eyed peas, they tasted alright to me, Earl
You feelin' week? Why don't you lay down and sleep, Earl
Ain't it dark, wrapped up in that tarp, Earl?

The cops came by to bring Earl in
They searched the house high and low
Then they tipped their hats and said thank you ladies
If you hear from him, let us know
Well, the weeks went by and spring turned to summer
And summer faded into the fall
And it turns out he was a missin person
Who nobody missed at all
So the girls bought some land at a road side stand
Down on highway 109
They sell Tennessee ham and strawberry jam
And they don't lose any sleep at night

Cause Earl had to die...

Goodbye Earl
We need a break...
Lets go out to the lake Earl
We'll pack a lunch, and stuff you in the trunk, Earl
Is that alright? Good! Lets go for a ride, Earl. Hey!

Well, hey hey hey!
Aw hey hey hey!
Well, hey hey hey

Regards, John


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 18 Jan 05 - 10:32 AM

A little different approach in this song:

I Had a Wife

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: beeliner
Date: 26 Jul 10 - 03:01 AM

It's kind of a long thread, but did anyone mention Frank Hutchison's Old Rachel?

My stepdaughter, then a teenager, was quite moved by Suzanne Vega's "Luca", mentioned previously.

I found it rather trite and exploitative. Generation gap?


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST,Larry Saidman
Date: 26 Jul 10 - 01:32 PM

I remember hearing the New Lost City Rambler doing a very old song called "It's a Shame to Beat Your Wife on Sunday (when you got Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday)".   Supposedly a humorous song, but depicts a scary but common attitude of the time.

Another one: About Every Step You Take (I think that's the title) by The Police (Sting). To me it appears to be about stalking. And similarly, the old 50's rock song by The Rays (later done by Herman's Hermits) called Silhouettes also has a "stalking" theme.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST,MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 04:28 AM

Hi, I'm listed as a guest, but that's because I can't log in. What about "Stone Cold Dead In the Market?" You can find it in the DT.


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Subject: RE: Songs Re Violence/Abuse to Women
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 10:06 AM

How about a medley of 'If I had a Hammer' and 'The Beat Goes On'?
wink!

GfS


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