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Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?

M'Grath of Altcar 23 Aug 04 - 09:59 AM
Amos 23 Aug 04 - 11:40 AM
The Fooles Troupe 24 Aug 04 - 06:35 AM
The Fooles Troupe 24 Aug 04 - 06:57 AM
M'Grath of Altcar 24 Aug 04 - 05:14 PM
The Fooles Troupe 25 Aug 04 - 12:36 AM
M'Grath of Altcar 25 Aug 04 - 01:55 PM
GUEST,MMario 25 Aug 04 - 02:05 PM
M'Grath of Altcar 25 Aug 04 - 04:32 PM
GUEST,MMario 25 Aug 04 - 04:38 PM
M'Grath of Altcar 25 Aug 04 - 04:41 PM
The Fooles Troupe 26 Aug 04 - 12:31 AM
M'Grath of Altcar 26 Aug 04 - 03:59 AM
The Fooles Troupe 26 Aug 04 - 08:34 AM
GUEST,MMario 26 Aug 04 - 08:55 AM
M'Grath of Altcar 26 Aug 04 - 09:06 AM
The Fooles Troupe 26 Aug 04 - 09:18 AM
GUEST,MMario 26 Aug 04 - 09:21 AM
The Fooles Troupe 26 Aug 04 - 09:38 AM
M'Grath of Altcar 26 Aug 04 - 05:11 PM
The Fooles Troupe 26 Aug 04 - 06:03 PM
The Fooles Troupe 26 Aug 04 - 06:36 PM
Noah Zacharin 26 Aug 04 - 09:24 PM
The Fooles Troupe 27 Aug 04 - 12:44 AM
M'Grath of Altcar 27 Aug 04 - 02:33 AM
The Fooles Troupe 27 Aug 04 - 06:36 AM
Pied Piper 27 Aug 04 - 08:05 AM
M'Grath of Altcar 27 Aug 04 - 08:34 AM
The Fooles Troupe 28 Aug 04 - 12:01 AM
M'Grath of Altcar 29 Aug 04 - 03:20 PM
M'Grath of Altcar 29 Aug 04 - 06:51 PM
Mark Dowding 31 Aug 04 - 05:06 PM
M'Grath of Altcar 31 Aug 04 - 08:46 PM
The Fooles Troupe 01 Sep 04 - 05:06 AM
Mark Dowding 01 Sep 04 - 03:52 PM
M'Grath of Altcar 01 Sep 04 - 05:01 PM
The Fooles Troupe 01 Sep 04 - 08:59 PM
Amos 01 Sep 04 - 09:20 PM
The Fooles Troupe 01 Sep 04 - 09:26 PM
GUEST,GROK 02 Sep 04 - 01:16 AM
GUEST,MMario 02 Sep 04 - 09:13 AM
The Fooles Troupe 26 Sep 04 - 10:50 AM
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Subject: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 09:59 AM

I've tried to get on to the online singaround thing but it won't work for me. (I've got a mac and paltalk just wont work)

Any musicians or singers out there like to cooperate on a home recording???

I used to be a member of a yahoo group which co-operated on pieces of music on a worldwide basis - they sent zip cartridges by snail mail. It worked and the results were surprisingly good.

The idea of doing a piece of music with some mudcat home recordists from around the world appeals to me. Any takers??

Or is it just a dumb idea???


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: Amos
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 11:40 AM

M'gratyh:

That's what the Mudcat CDs are - -home recordings of many Mudcatters (well some are studio recordings) all compiled into one place. Unless you mean recording different parts and then merging them into on cut!! That was done once -- with the song written about Max and Mudcat tothe tune of "Let's Go Fishin'". But it required some fancy splicing.

A


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 06:35 AM

Well, I wouldn't mind - I prefer to not solo, but play together - I was brought up musically expecting that rather than the pseudo-glory of being a soloist. Actually, I find solo work easier than working together, cause one can be totally selfish - working with others needs the ability to listen to others and fit in - which I fond more satisfying.

technically there have been considerable advances, one could play ones part into the mike while listening to headphones. Multi-tracking is not absolutely necessary for this, but if some program is "chosen" (and I will ignore the "choosing process" for the moment!) - it should be relatively cheap enough to allow us all to buy a legal copy.

Robin


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 06:57 AM

BTW, Yahoo has a similar system - can you get it to work on your Mac? If so, some of us have the Yahoo interface working, so you need not be alone there...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 05:14 PM

Yeah I prefer to play with real musicians too Robin, but the idea of doing a piece of music with people around the world REALLY appeals to me.

As for choosing a program, well I use Cubase personally and I know it inside out. I dont think it would be necessary to all use the same programme though.

WAV files seem to work in most if not all audio recording programmes. The thing could be done on different platforms.

What do you play by the way?

Ian


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 12:36 AM

Well, at the moment, I can fit in my computer cubicle the smaller piano accordions, Whistles, including Low Whistles, the Symphonie (a precursor of the Hurdy Gurdy), assorted percussion. The spell checker suggested 'persuasion' there - :-) Who says machines don't have a sense of humour? Oh, I can sing too, but prefer harmony or Bass Lines - that could be a bit tricky to work on this way, but I'll give it a go...

Too big, but reachable by using an external mike is the Hammer Dulcimer. I've a few others out of commission due to lack of replacement strings, etc...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 01:55 PM

Ummmm.....    I've seen a symphonie. I love the sound of Hurdy-Gurdys and keyfiddles.

I play Guitar, (acoustic, Electric, slide, etc) Piano and keyboards, Mandolin, Mandola, Northumbrian Small pipes, Harp. I sing. I'm loud and in tune but I ain't Martin Carthy!! I'm good with Harmonies though - just recorded a song with over 50 vocal tracks!! I love the self -indulgence home recording allows.

The multitrack approach that you mentioned would seem the best tactic to me. To listen to already recorded tracks on headphones and then record another track while listening to the first tracks. WAV files could then be pieced together. WAV files work in Cubase, Logic, Pro tools, Cakewalk and Performer. MP3s have obvious advantages and disadvantages.

For anyone who has not got a multitrack recording facility, it would, I think, still be possible to include them in any piece we recorded. If the song or tune were recorded at the right speed and in the right key and, of course, in tune. It could then be pasted into the evolving opus. It would be easier to do this for smaller sections. People could donate to, and join in, the chorus!

This will be interesting if it works Robin. I hope it does.

Any more takers?

M of A (Ian)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 02:05 PM

sound like it could be interesting --- I can't record at home - but someone might be able to do something with a raw track from one of my recording projects...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 04:32 PM

It's early days with the thing at the moment Mario. It's still in the debateing stage. Thanks very much for your interest. Keep an eye on this thread to see how things develop.

The question of what to record hasn't been raised yet.

So I'm raising it!!

Personally I would favour doing a traditional song chosen at random from the DT. A chorus song could be more "inclusive"

Additionally, it would be nice to do a tune - a set of reels for example. Perhaps chosen at random from say the lovely Richard Robinson's tune book site.

What do you play MMario?

Any one else interested might want to just tell us what instruments they can play & record.

Mof A (Ian)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 04:38 PM

I'm a vocalist - normally acapella.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 04:41 PM

Great stuff Mario.

M of A      (Ian)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 12:31 AM

Tune Selection:

Anything not too complex for a start - something fairly trad - one that we all play the same tune for!

Perhaps just an instrumental (short one?) for a first test?

The tunes should generally have some life, but not be a flat out race.

Some sort of plan (sorry, dirty word I know!) for putting the tune together - it's not going to be as simple as alive jam session, but it CAN be done.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 03:59 AM

We are thinking in tune here - I was contemplating the same thing while walking back from the pub! It will be best to start small and simple.

Plan - I agree completely here too. Key, tempo, form and (possibly) chord sequence need to be agreed beforehand.

I think playing the initial track to a click track or a MIDI track is going to be essential as well so that the song ties in with sequencer barlines.

I can read fluently so, name the tune, key and speed Robin.

Let's get started!

M of A


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 08:34 AM

Actually I would suggest that maybe this might be best conducted via email - if you send me a PM with your email, I'll sign you up to a private email list intended for my group musical projects.

At the moment, I would have difficulty getting a clean recording - I do have a good mic, but need to do some work to get the PC recording cleanly - and that work involves expenditure of cash which I am currently bereft of.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 08:55 AM

yes - an e-mail list might be best - though major "decisions and events" should probablyy continue to be posted here - to bring in interested parties and or just to inform the kibitzers who are interested in the process and results. (my opinion)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 09:06 AM

yes MMario I was thinking the same thing.
.
What's a kibitzer?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 09:18 AM

"We are all of one mind" ... wasn't that a song?

I suggest that for each particular 'project', we have one "Producer" - who assembles the bits - this can be varied if you want, and others can remix various bits if they want - but 'too many cooks spoil the broth' so one pot - one cook.

Shared Copyright by all the participants - if the product is good enough we might want to issue a few CDs... :-)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 09:21 AM

kibitzer - I may have mispelled - from yiddish I think - but basically an onlooker who comments but not "really" involved


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 09:38 AM

Invitation Emails to join - on the way...

Helpful Kibitzers (spellchecked!) mostly welcome - I control the list and will kick out anybody who stuffs around, is obnoxious, or whatever I feel like at the time... :-)

There are a few messages in the archives you may find amusing/interesting... You go to the main webpage to find them.

Further on Copyright - the 'originator' of each bit is expected to 'own' their bit and not place it 'in the public domain' - but as a mutual agreement among friends we do much the same as if we jam together - we each contribute to the whole...

Robin

Robin


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 05:11 PM

Agreed here on the producer stuff robin.

I've subscribed Robins group.

Just set up a yahoo group of my own and I did a little experiment to check on download sizes.

I made a 44.1 16 bit WAV mono recording of precisely 60 seconds. Just some silence. But it sounded good!

I tried to upload it to the yahoo group.
But it wouldn't go because of the upload limit.

Here's the stats:
WAV size........................5,314,439 BYTES
Group Max ..........................20,480 K
Upload limit ...........................5120 K

Scratching my head here trying to convert those units. I knew I should have listened to that maths teacher.

I put a piece of music there. Go and listen if your inclined

Iangrouppagething
------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 06:03 PM

I think we may have to upload files in Zip format - if we can use compatible SW, then we can split files to get them under the limits, and splice them together - some Zip prog will do this - but I only know about MS Windows stuff.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 06:36 PM

That file took over 1/2 hour to dnld - I only can afford dialup at present...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: Noah Zacharin
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 09:24 PM

I'd be happy to toss my notes into the pot. Don't have much expertise in the computer realm, but perhaps I can compensate for that shortcoming with the musical thing. Let me know what I can do.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 12:44 AM

Well, if you PM me your email addy, I'll put you in the group.

Will Yahoo messenger work on nonMS machines?

Robin


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 02:33 AM

Messenger does work and I've got it installed and working. I use yahoo for playing pool! I'm an absolute shark!

Thanks for your interest Noah.

I think I can split zip files Robin. But It is a cumbersome way of doing it.

If there was some way of getting online storage without an upload limit this would make it easier.

Im gonna look and see if I can find somewhere that will do it.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 06:36 AM

Yes, Mesenger can be amusing...

"I've gotten better messages from a drunken monkey!"

now who does that remind me of...

Just as well Max hasn't set that up here.... :-)

We can create our OWN abusive Mudcat messages, though some poeple are less creative than others...

Robin


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: Pied Piper
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 08:05 AM

This is a great idea; I've got access to digital recording equipment and would be happy to make a contribution.
Could we set up a web site to store the contributions, and are MP3 files smaller than WAV?
I play GHB, Bombard, Recorders, Whistles, Flute, Guitar, and can drive Cubase.
I work out a lot of my Ideas on Cubase using just midi, would this be a good fast way of organising ideas for later recording?
You can make a complete Midi version of your idea then replace the parts one by one with live recording. I would see the midi as just a guide to give the feeling of playing in an ensemble, not something to be learned and played as heard.

TTFN
PP


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 27 Aug 04 - 08:34 AM

Great ideas Pied Piper.

Welcome aboard Pied Piper!!!

sure MP3s would make the thing easier but synchronising parts might be a bit trickier.

Cubase / midi idea is excellent ( for me!)

I run Cubase VST ( still not got SX yet) on a mac G4.

Midi files could speed things along considerably in the early stages.

Send me a file or two, oh Pied Piper.

(If your using a PC can you send the fiile as a standard midifile as well as a .SNG file?)

I'll PM you with my email address.

LETS GET STARTED!!!!!

M of A (Ian)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Aug 04 - 12:01 AM

Pied Piper, if you PM me your email address, I'll add you into a Yahoo list I have - where we can discuss this sort of thing as a group easier than by point to point emails.

I need to find out what sort of (relativele cheap) SW I need to get for PC

Robin


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 29 Aug 04 - 03:20 PM

Whats a GHB Pied Piper?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 29 Aug 04 - 06:51 PM

AHA! i just googled it and either your into Gamma-hydroxybutyrate or you play the Great Highland Bagpipes.

Fantastic. It will be good to some tunes in B flat.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 05:06 PM

Just had a phone call from M'Grath of Altcar about this and I'm going round to his house tomorrow to help him start the ball rolling with this project.
It seems odd that considering he wants people from all over the world to partake in this thing, he rings someone up who lives just round the corner (literally) from him! I'm sure he'll keep you posted.

Cheers
Mark


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 08:46 PM

Well it made sense at the time Mark. :)

It still does.

Yes folks Mudcat recording project number 1 is underway.
Foolestroupe and I have nattered about it for a few days. We are starting with something simple.

It is .........Martin said to his Man.

Like Mark said, he's coming round tomorrow and we're starting the thing off with something "Live" Probably he on guitar and vocals, Me on Piano.

The key..... well .... It's in the DT in G. Fooles_troupe favoured something a bit lower - D.

Mark prefers G ( He sang it down the telephone in both keys !! Beautiful Mark. ) I prefer G. Mark plays it on the Concertina in G. I've learnt it on the NS pipes in "G".

Any body else got a preference?

The resulting MP3s will be placed on a yahoo group page as

1.)   A complete tune-so-far
2.) As seperate tracks.
3.) MIDI data

Dots, chords and lyrics will be there as well.

Expressed an interest so far .....

Foolestroupe, Noah Zacharin, MMario, Mark Downing, Pied Piper,& MofA

Anyone one else want to stick their oar in?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 05:06 AM

There is a Group for discussion already set up - please PM me with your email address and I will send you an invitation

Robin


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 03:52 PM

Well that first session seemed to go all right. M of A will no doubt be posting some bits and pieces somewhere for us all to have a listen and add other bits to.
Cheers
Mark


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 05:01 PM

Mark recorded Concertina, Lead vocals, Harmony Vocals, and guitar.

And it sounds good.
Files should be up tomorrow.

Sorry for the delay, I have to do the conversion stuff on them. And right now - I need a pint.

MofA


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 08:59 PM

I have sent all of you who sent me your email addresses an invite to the Yahoo group - but it looks as if some of you you don't accept Yahoo list invitations? If that is the way you have set up your Yahoo Id, then you will have to go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/A_S_B and join from there.

You should also send the Listowner an email (preferably with your Mudcat handle included!) so I know you are not a spammer.

I've had that list for a while since another attempted music project fell thru - since it is set up - I am happy for you to use it to discuss this project. May I suggest you preface each email Subject line with something that identifies it as the Mudcat Coop project so as keep the threads separate form other things on the list? My personal direct email I will tell you at the time of your invite, - but I think it best to keep this project going thru here to keep it all together. I'll be adding you to my 'Yahoo Pal' list once you join too - this allows us to talk if we are both online together - we can even conference I believe - and maybe even set up a miked room.

Mitch the Bass has generously created a 40Mb filespace. You can get to it at http://cgi.hgmitchell.plus.com/fileman/login.php

The login details will of course, not be posted publicly - ask me or Mitch either online in Yahoo messemger or via PM.

Mitch says "The file manager should be self explanatory.
The files can be accessed from the filemanager or from http://cgi.hgmitchell.plus.com/mudcat/[filename]"

Robin


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: Amos
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 09:20 PM

(McGrath of A:

Mudcat Recording Project Number 1? Please!!

Where do you suppose FIVE CDs of Mudcat Music came from??)

A


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 09:26 PM

Mudcat 'Coop' Recording Project Number 1.... ;-)

There WAS a subtle difference in intent...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: GUEST,GROK
Date: 02 Sep 04 - 01:16 AM

noah zacharin,

You should have something ON the CD, IMO.

an ol' friend from Mtl and TYD. Your album was very good. I still have it, but alas no record player.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 02 Sep 04 - 09:13 AM

foulestroup - never got the invite - I should be able to - though I can't get to yahoo groups from here (blocked) I have joined a number via invite.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Mudcat co-op recording?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Sep 04 - 10:50 AM


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