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Subject: I Ride An Old Paint From: Date: 02 Nov 98 - 10:34 AM Can anyone translate the cowboy lingo of "I Ride An Old Paint?" ((What's a "dan" - Hoolihan? etc?) thanks |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Ralph Date: 02 Nov 98 - 11:06 AM Hi there, Hoolihan is a party, Dan is the name of the horse. "I'm riding old paint, and I'm leading old Dan. Off to Montina to through a Hoolian"
Or something like that. FYI The old cowboys might have more than one horse. A standard string (like on a roundup) might be a 12 horses. then when you are traveling, you need another horse to carry your camp gear. Sometimes it took weeks to get from place to place. So you had to carry your grub. Of course you could shoot a deer or something like that. But people still like bacon and coffee. Hard to shoot a bacon tree. |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Brack& Date: 03 Nov 98 - 05:27 AM If you type Hoolian in the filter,go back 90 days and then hit refresh thread, you'll come up with more. |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Alice Date: 03 Nov 98 - 10:25 AM And of course it's Montana (not Montina...I'm sure Ralph didn't mean that). alice in montana |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Barry Finn Date: 03 Nov 98 - 09:06 PM Alice, I think Ralph was stuck between a rock & a hard place. You choose "I'm going to Montana to a throw the Hoolian-a". I'm sure he meant to slight none. Barry |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: rich r Date: 03 Nov 98 - 10:12 PM While "Paint" can be interpreted as a horse's name, more broadly it refers to a type of horse. A paint horse typically has a base color with splashes of white. A related name ''pinto" is derived from a Spanish word that means spotted or blothched with colors. Jim Bob Tinsley lists several other names for this kind of horse, Indian Pony, circus horse, skewball, calico horse and piebald. The last one was restricted to those with black as the background color. Tinsley also says the word "hoolihan" refers to bulldogging which bacame a regular rodeo sport aaround 1900. So the song could mean that the cowboy got on his paint horse and headed to Montana to take part in cowboy skills sports. There is a similar word "hoo-ley-ann" that is a roping term used for a quick thow with a small loop. Tinsley adds that hoolihan also means to "hell around in town or 'paint it red'". In some collected versions the cowboy leads "an old dam" which could be 'Old Dan's mother. Get out Old Dan's mother? rich r |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: BSeed Date: 04 Nov 98 - 02:44 AM I was under the impression that the "old dan" was a pack mule: I don't know if I read that somewhere or simply interpreted it that way. It makes sense to me--it's clearly not the name of an animal but a kind of animal. --seed |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Alice Date: 04 Nov 98 - 01:00 PM To complicate this more... there are other related songs, one called "Old Paint" (I have an old © 1934 cowboy song book with this) and also "Leavin Cheyenne". Old Paint and Dan are the names of the horses ( I've found, sometimes Dan changed to Fan) although paint refers to a type of horse's markings, as rich described. Many versions I have found capitalize Paint and Dan as proper nouns (names). Whether Old Paint is the name OR the horse is just an old paint, depends on whether you are singing "I ride an old paint" or "I'm ridin Old Paint".
In the song "Old Paint", the lyrics are simply, "Good bye, Old Paint, I'm leavin Cheyenne, I'm off to Montan', good bye, Old Paint," etc. alice in montana |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Ralph Date: 05 Nov 98 - 03:14 PM Somebody needs a spelling ckecker. (Blush) Montana I'll write it a hundred times. |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: GUEST,bob Date: 22 Feb 08 - 10:20 AM can someone post the right lyrics without any spelling mistakes |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: maeve Date: 22 Feb 08 - 10:41 AM DigiTrad link is already at the top of this page. Good song. |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Brian Peters Date: 22 Feb 08 - 12:08 PM Anyone heard Jeff Davis' version? Terrific! |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Mark Ross Date: 22 Feb 08 - 12:26 PM A Hoolihan is a loop thrown backwards, clockwise, with minimal twirling, for catching your horse without scaring the other animals. "I lead an old DAM(a mare)". Mark Ross |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: GUEST,Sheila Date: 22 Feb 08 - 01:54 PM This is the melody I learned for this song: Key of C Time:3/4 My horses ain't hungry, they won't eat your hay" C/ECC/AGG/ACC/E-C/ECC/AGG/ACD/C. The refrain:"Goodbye old paint, I'm a-leaving Cheyenne" A/G-A/C-AA/GED/C-- It's very different from the midi in the Digitrad. Any explanations? Thanks. Sheila |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Amos Date: 22 Feb 08 - 01:57 PM The big explanation is that these are two different songs. One is "I Ride an Old Paint" and the other is "Goodbye, Old Paint", A |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 22 Feb 08 - 02:39 PM Amos is correct, there are two songs. See previous threads. Mark Ross repeats the mistake- two words confused: Hoolihan- a celebration, a big event; see Help-Hoolihan Old Paint, linked at top. Hooley-ann (hooliann)- The rope maneuver. Several spellings. This has been gone over before. See Thread 4070: Hoolihan Guest bob, nuthin' wrong - spellin' jest fine. |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: GUEST,Sheila Date: 22 Feb 08 - 02:40 PM Oh. Thanks Amos. Still, the melody is different. |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 22 Feb 08 - 02:41 PM Ignore my abortive link- All threads linked at top of page. |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Amos Date: 22 Feb 08 - 02:57 PM I guess "Old Dam" makes sense, semantically, but I have sung this for decades as "...leadin' Old Dan", so I feel I am stuck with it. :D A |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Slag Date: 22 Feb 08 - 04:43 PM Old Dan (the Devil) was often the sturborn pack mule. I believe the mules outnumbered the horses in the Old West. When broke to the saddle they could out run a horse ( though not out-turn ) and their endurance was better than a horse and more sure-footed. As someone posted above, if somebody was traveling to new digs your grub and gear had to travel on several animals and if you well off enough to own a wagon (which was a rough go where no roads existed) you still had to have a team and alternate animals. |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Sorcha Date: 22 Feb 08 - 05:27 PM Dan....sometimes alternate spelling for 'dun'....a colour. |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Artful Codger Date: 23 Feb 08 - 01:03 AM To avoid propagating yet more misinformation, it would be better to discontinue this thread and revive one of the older ones, where more reliable information on the history and terminology of this song has already been posted, rather extensively. |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: iancarterb Date: 23 Feb 08 - 02:22 AM For the express purpose of propogating yet more misinformation, I offer this version which evolved from years of commuting up a long hill at the end of the trip TO work (I was thankful for the downhill to the ferry at the day's end). I ride an old bike, I eat tofu and bran. I'm a crusty old geezer by the name of Bannerman. My hair is unruly, I scoff at the law. I sleep in a shed on a bag full of straw. Ride around, dodgin' doggies, I ride up hills slow, But I'm wiry and I'm pithy, and I'm rarin' to go. |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: open mike Date: 23 Feb 08 - 02:28 AM in the song "Cool Water" the singer says "keep a movin' Dan..." is he (she) singin' to a horse or mule then?! |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Amos Date: 23 Feb 08 - 03:03 AM Well, he could be singing to a mule, a horse, a neighbor or his wife. Possibly his male tackle. I dunno. More data required. A |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: open mike Date: 23 Feb 08 - 03:19 AM here is the cool water thread... http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=1332 |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Slag Date: 23 Feb 08 - 04:48 PM "... Old Dan and I with throats burned dry..." "Keep a movin' Dan, doncha listen to him, Dan. He's the devil, not a man and he spreads the burning sand with water..." I've got to believe, in this case, Dan is his pack animal. Of course the mirage of water on the horizon is the Devil's lie, tempting the thirsting to run toward it. |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Roberto Date: 24 Feb 08 - 03:24 AM Brian Peters writes about a Jeff Davies recording of I Ride An Old Paint: on which album, LP or CD? Thanks. R |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Roberto Date: 24 Feb 08 - 03:26 AM Sorry, Jeff Davis, not Jeff Davies. R |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: GUEST,Guest, David Jones Date: 24 Feb 08 - 07:06 PM "Ride An Old Paint" and "Goodbye Old Paint" are both fabulous songs. For the ultimate version of 'Goodbye Old Paint ' get the only CD ever made by the late, great Tom Gibney. Can probably be got from Folk Legacy. I think Burl Ives was the first I ever heard sing "Ride An Old Paint". David Jones |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Jeri Date: 24 Feb 08 - 07:45 PM David, I can't find it at Folk Legacy. Camsco may have the CD, and it's available from CD Babay |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: GUEST,Guest, David Jones Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:06 PM Thanks Jeri, come to think of it, Camsco does have the Tom Gibney CD. David Jones |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Slag Date: 24 Feb 08 - 10:45 PM I may be far afield but did the Sons of the Pioneers do a fairly early version? |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: GUEST Date: 25 Feb 08 - 05:16 PM I have been singing this song for years, without knowing what half of it means. I am preferring to think the "lead an old Dan" is an old burro, just sorta makes sense. I'm not arguing about the hoolihan. But what are the coolies and the draw??? (where the fire and the water is) |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Big Al Whittle Date: 25 Feb 08 - 05:36 PM I always thought of it of a man with a cloak flaring out behind him(like Batman) astride a tin of Dulux Brilliant White Emulsion that was streaking through the stars of the galaxy like a rocket. has anyone entertained similar thoughts? |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: GUEST,lefthanded guitar Date: 25 Feb 08 - 05:42 PM Ah...no. But that doesn't mean you are wrong there wld. |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Amos Date: 25 Feb 08 - 06:51 PM They water in the coolies, they water in the draw.... These are terrain features; it means that dogies will run around anywhere they can to get water while on the trail. A draw is a widening rift between higher hills or mesas (cf "Ghost Riders" riding down a cloudy draw). I always thought a cooly was a corruption of an Irish word meaning a small dry creekbed or some such, but I cannot find any reference for it now. A |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 25 Feb 08 - 07:45 PM Usually spelled coulee- Canadian French, a small stream or ravine, often dry in thedry season. From the French word couler, to flow. Brought into the western and northern states by trappers and mountain men and later picked up by cowboys who drove herds to the Dakotas and western Canada. |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: johnross Date: 25 Feb 08 - 09:08 PM Coulee is indeed a ravine or a gultch. Grand Coulee was a large one on the Columbia River in Washington State where the Grand Coulee Dam was placed--and about which Woody Guthrie wrote at least one song. "Fiery and snuffy" are lightning and thunder. The whole thing makes some kind of sense as a night herding song. During the great cattle drives, two cowboys would slowly ride around the herd all night (one in each direction) to guard against rustlers and coyotes. To keep from spooking the somewhat nervous cattle, each cowboy would sing continuosly but quietly. And because that's what they knew, the cowboys would make up songs about being cowboys: "I ride an old paint, I lead an old dan, I'm goin' to Montana to throw the houlihan" and so forth. I'm finding two versions of the third verse: is it "Old Bill Jones had two daughters and a song; One went to Denver and the other went wrong." or "Old Bill Jones had a daughter and a son; one went ..."? |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 25 Feb 08 - 11:09 PM Understanding these songs, I guess, depends on where one was raised. We used to sing this song, and other western songs in school, and I can't remember ever not knowing the meaning of the words. School mates included some from the farms,ranches and sheep ranges. Of course, Old Dan is ambiguous; I tend to think of him as a pack animal, as mentioned above. He could be a horse, donkey or mule, but I doubt that a burro, Equus asinus (under BLM management, there is an adoption program), a small creature originally from Africa and brought by the Spaniards, could have been of much use. They were ideal for small farmers, prospectors, vendors in town selling piñon wood, etc. because of their hardiness. I bought one for 50 cents when I was in grade school- my parents were most upset when I brought it home. Some people call a small donkey a burro, but as a New Mexican, I object! |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: Amos Date: 25 Feb 08 - 11:19 PM I've always envisioned Dan as a pack horse. They were sloggers, and weight bearers, a different sort of steed altogether than a good cutting horse or cow-pony. Thanks for the clarification on coulee--something I had once known and plumb fergot! :D A |
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Subject: RE: I Ride An Old Paint From: GUEST Date: 13 Sep 09 - 01:04 AM In Montana (the northwest) the word is houihan -- in the Southwest, esp AZ, it is Hooley-ann. It is a loop used when roping horses - I have seen it thrown many times. The rope is not swung around and around 0 that would scare the horses - it is usually swung once and thrown and a good cowboy doesn't miss. I Coulee and a draw is about the same thing. From my great-grandfather, I learned to sing "I'm ridin' Old Paint, I'm leadin' Old Dan . . and Dan was a pack horse. This song is about going to Montana to rope wild horses - yet some confuse it with gathering cattle. The word houlihan is the key word. That loop is for horses. "Little dogies" has been added to this song -- it doesn't belong in it. Prob confused with another song. |
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Subject: RE: I ride an old paint From: GUEST Date: 13 Sep 09 - 01:15 AM Firey and snuffy means they are spooky and will easily stampede - because they are wild |
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Subject: ADD Version: I Ride An Old Paint From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Sep 09 - 03:04 AM I don't really like the version that's in the Digital Tradition. The phrase "I'm leadin' old Dan" really bothers me, and I haven't found it in any other version. What I sing is a composite of what I've found in a variety of songbooks: I RIDE AN OLD PAINT I ride an old Paint, I lead an old Dan I'm goin' to Montana for to throw the hoolian. They feed in the coulees, they water in the draw, Their tails are all matted, their backs are all raw. CHORUS: Ride around, little dogies, ride around them slow, For the fiery and snuffy are rarin' to go. Old Bill Jones had two daughters and a song, One went to Denver, and the other went wrong. His wife, she died in a poolroom fight But still he keeps singing from morning to night: CHORUS Oh, when I die, take my saddle from the wall Put it on my pony, lead him out of his stall; Tie my bones to his back, turn our faces to the west And we'll ride the prairie that we love the best. CHORUS Here's the Traditional Ballad Index entry on this song: I Ride an Old PaintDESCRIPTION: "I ride an old paint, I lead an old Dan/dam... Ride around, little dogies, ride around 'em slow...." Verses on various topics: The cowboy's travels, the strayed children of Old Bill Jones, the cowboy's hopes for his funeralAUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1927 (Sandburg) KEYWORDS: cowboy horse rambling funeral children FOUND IN: US(SW) REFERENCES (9 citations): Larkin, pp. 33-35, "I Ride an Old Paint" (1 text, 1 tune) Lomax-FSUSA 63(B), "Old Paint" (1 text, 1 tune) Sandburg, pp. 12-13, "I Ride an Old Paint" (1 text, 1 tune) Scott-BoA, pp. 260-261, "I Ride an Old Paint" (1 text, 1 tune) Botkin-AmFolklr, pp. 857-858, "I Ride an Old Paint" (1 text, 1 tune) Tinsley, pp. 126-129, "I Ride an Old Paint" (1 text, 1 tune) PSeeger-AFB, p. 25, "I Ride An Old Paint" (1 text, 1 tune) Silber-FSWB, p. 106, "I Ride An Old Paint" (1 text) DT, RIDEPNT* Roud #915 RECORDINGS: Almanac Singers, "I Ride an Old Paint" (General 5020B, 1941; on Almanac01, Almanac03, AlmanacCD1) Harry Jackson, "I Ride an Old Paint" (on HJackson1) Tex Ritter, "A-Ridin' Old Paint" (Conqueror 8144, 1933; on BackSaddle) Pete Seeger, "I Ride an Old Paint" (on PeteSeeger17) CROSS-REFERENCES: cf. "Goodbye, Old Paint" File: LxU063B Go to the Ballad Search form Go to the Ballad Index Instructions The Ballad Index Copyright 2015 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. |
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Subject: ADD Version: I Ride An Old Paint From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Sep 09 - 03:49 AM Here's the version from Sandburg's American Songbag I RIDE AN OLD PAINT I ride an old Paint, I lead an old Dan I'm goin' to Montan' for to throw the hoolian. They feed in the coulees, they water in the draw, Their tails are all matted, their backs are all raw.
Ride around them slow, For the fiery and snuffy are rarin' to go. Old Bill Jones had two daughters and a song, One went to Denver and the other went wrong. His wife she died in a poolroom fight, Still he sings from mornin' till night:
Ride around them slow, For the fiery and snuffy are rarin' to go. Oh, when I die, take my saddle from the wall, Put it on my pony, lead him out of his stall. Tie my bones to his back, turn our faces to the West, And we'll ride the prairie that we love the best.
Ride around them slow, For the fiery and snuffy are rarin' to go. Source: Carl Sandburg, American Songbag (1927), pp. 12-13 |
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Subject: ADD Version: I Ride An Old Paint From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Sep 09 - 03:58 AM I thought I'd also post the version from Pete Seeger's American Favorite Ballads, since the Bill Jones family history is significantly different:
I RIDE AN OLD PAINT
Ride around them slow, For the fiery and snuffy are raring to go. Old Bill Jones had a daughters and a son, Son went to college and the daughter went wrong. His wife got killed in a poolroom fight, Still he keeps singing from morning till night:
Ride around them slow, For the fiery and snuffy are rarin' to go. When I die, take my saddle from the wall, Put it on to my pony, lead him out of his stall. Tie my bones to his back, turn our faces to the west, And we'll ride the prairie that we love the best.
Ride around them slow, For the fiery and snuffy are rarin' to go. Source: Pete Seeger American Favorite Ballads (1961), page 25 This same version is also in Fred & Irwin Silver's Folksinger's Wordbook (1973), p. 106. I checked Larkin, Lomax, and Scott, which are essentially the same as the Sandburg version. I found nothing different enough to bother posting, and nothing earlier than Sandburg (1927). Seeger says Sandburg got his version from Larkin, but I think Seeger may be wrong because Larkin's book was published in 1931. One thing: in Ballad of America (1966), pp. 260-261, John Anthony Scott has the first line as:
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Subject: RE: Origins: I Ride An Old Paint From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 13 Sep 09 - 04:29 AM I've always used the "son" one - I am sure I got it from Carl S's book....I like the humor of that line.
For the closing I have also used, "together we'll ranble the the land we love the best." No idea where that came from - just the way I've known it.
Burl Ives - Song In America p.210 has,
"Lead out my pony, lead him out of his stall,
Sincerely,
I don't like the flow of Seegar's " Put it on to my pony, lead him out of his stall," awkward like a finger pickin lick hic-cough... |
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Subject: RE: Origins: I Ride An Old Paint From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 13 Sep 09 - 04:45 AM The song is conspicuously "absent" out of several hundred various songs from Lomax and Lomax revised 1938 (1910) Cowboy Songs and other frontier ballads
Sincerely, |
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Subject: ADD Version: Old Paint From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Sep 09 - 04:55 AM I noticed that, too, Garg. I thought "I Ride an Old Paint" and "Goodbye, Old Paint" were two different songs, but then I came across a combination - from the Lomaxes, 1934. OLD PAINT My foot in the stirrup, my pony won't stan', I'm a-leavin' Cheyenne, I'm off for Montan'. Chorus: Good-by, old Paint, I'm a-leavin' Cheyenne, Good-by, old Paint, I'm a-leavin' Cheyenne.* I'm a-ridin' old Paint, I'm a-leadin' old Fan, Good-by, little Annie, I'm off for Cheyenne. Old Paint's a good pony, he paces when he can, Good morning, young lady, my hosses won't stand. Oh, hitch up your hosses and feed 'em some hay, And seat yourself by me, as long as you stay. My hosses ain't hungry, they'll not eat your hay, My wagon is loaded and rolling away. I am a-riding old Paint, I am a-leading old Dan, I'm goin' to Montan' for to throw the hoolihan. They feed in the coulees, they water in the draw, Their tails are all matted, their backs are all raw. Old Bill Jones had two daughters and a song: One went to Denver, and the other went wrong. His wife she died in a pool-room fight, And still he sings from morning to night. Oh, when I die, take my saddle from the wall, Put it on my pony, lead him from the stall. Tie my bones to his back, turn our faces to the west, And we'll ride the prairie that we love the best. *To be repeated until one thinks of more words or the waltz stops. Notes:
Source: John A. Lomax and Alan Lomax, American Ballads and Folk Songs (1934), page 383-385. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: I Ride An Old Paint From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 13 Sep 09 - 05:43 AM That is a wonderful reference source - never used it before - and the music score prints well.
The words are there - and so is the meter - but the melody/tune - is not the one I associate with either song. (the DT is closer)
Sincerely, |
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