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Pete Seeger's last concert

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Peter T. 29 Apr 05 - 06:27 PM
Suffet 05 Oct 04 - 07:53 PM
Suffet 21 Sep 04 - 09:30 PM
Don Firth 21 Sep 04 - 03:34 PM
Alonzo M. Zilch (inactive) 21 Sep 04 - 03:20 PM
GUEST,Frank Hamilton 21 Sep 04 - 02:58 PM
Once Famous 21 Sep 04 - 02:00 PM
GUEST 21 Sep 04 - 09:13 AM
Peter T. 21 Sep 04 - 09:10 AM
EBarnacle 21 Sep 04 - 08:38 AM
Peace 20 Sep 04 - 10:03 PM
GUEST 20 Sep 04 - 09:51 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 20 Sep 04 - 09:45 PM
lucky_p 20 Sep 04 - 08:57 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 20 Sep 04 - 08:51 PM
Once Famous 20 Sep 04 - 08:40 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 20 Sep 04 - 08:17 PM
GUEST 20 Sep 04 - 08:09 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 20 Sep 04 - 08:02 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 20 Sep 04 - 07:53 PM
GUEST,sorefingers 20 Sep 04 - 07:12 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 20 Sep 04 - 07:01 PM
Uncle_DaveO 20 Sep 04 - 06:49 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 20 Sep 04 - 06:11 PM
Once Famous 20 Sep 04 - 05:57 PM
PoppaGator 20 Sep 04 - 05:35 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 20 Sep 04 - 05:22 PM
lucky_p 20 Sep 04 - 05:13 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 20 Sep 04 - 04:55 PM
Once Famous 20 Sep 04 - 04:48 PM
Uncle_DaveO 20 Sep 04 - 04:26 PM
GUEST,Frank Hamilton 20 Sep 04 - 01:48 PM
Peter T. 20 Sep 04 - 12:44 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 20 Sep 04 - 11:44 AM
lucky_p 20 Sep 04 - 11:14 AM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 20 Sep 04 - 11:02 AM
Uncle_DaveO 20 Sep 04 - 10:48 AM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 20 Sep 04 - 09:40 AM
Big Al Whittle 20 Sep 04 - 05:17 AM
Mike Regenstreif 19 Sep 04 - 11:50 PM
Uncle_DaveO 19 Sep 04 - 10:53 PM
RichM 19 Sep 04 - 09:25 PM
Once Famous 19 Sep 04 - 09:22 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 19 Sep 04 - 08:49 PM
lucky_p 19 Sep 04 - 08:48 PM
GUEST,God 19 Sep 04 - 08:45 PM
Suffet 19 Sep 04 - 08:34 PM
Once Famous 19 Sep 04 - 08:31 PM
Charley Noble 19 Sep 04 - 07:45 PM
lucky_p 19 Sep 04 - 06:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Peter T.
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 06:27 PM

did anyone see this concert finally?

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Suffet
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 07:53 PM

PEOPLE'S MUSIC NETWORK
for Songs of Freedom and Freedom

presents...

THE MANY VOICES CONCERT
Friday • January 28, 2005 • 7:30 to 10:30 PM
Brooklyn High School for the Arts
345 Dean Street, between 3rd and 4th Avenues
Brooklyn, New York


Featuring...
Pete Seeger
Brooklyn Women's Chorus
Disabled In Action Singers
Lafayette Inspirational Ensemble
Harmonic Insurgence
Brooklyn High School for the Arts Chorus
PMN Chorus


Cosponsored by...
Brooklyn High School for the Arts
Renaissance Charter School
Brooklyn Women's Chorus
Peoples' Voice Cafe
New York Pinewoods Folk Music Club


Tickets...
$15 for members of PMN or cosponsors if purchased in advance. All others, and at the door, $20.

For ticket information and sales, please contact...
Bev Grant.
Phone: 718-230-4999
E-mail: bevgrant1@aol.com

Directions:

• B65 bus to 4th Avenue stops in front of the school eastbound or one block north of the school westbound.

• Subway to the Atlantic Avenue - Pacific Street station. Walk south along 4th Avenue to Dean Street. That will be anywhere from half a block to two blocks depending on what station exit you use. Turn right. School will be on your right.

• Long Island Rail Road to Flatbush Avenue terminal in Brooklyn. Cross Atlantic Avenue, then walk south along 4th Avenue two blocks to Dean Street. Turn right. School will be on your right.

• Driving: I-278 (BQE) to Atlantic Avenue exit. Go east (away from waterfront) along Atlantic Avenue to 3rd Avenue. Turn right. Go two short blocks to Dean Street. Turn left and look for parking. School will be on your left.

PMN website: http://www,peoplesmusic.org/

Be there!

--- Steve


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Suffet
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 09:30 PM

Pete Seeger's 10 inch Darling Corey LP ranks among the absolute best recordings ever of traditional American folk music! I played it until it wore out. Then I bought another one and play it, too, until it wore our. Then I bought the CD. I have been listening to that album for close to half a century now, and I never tire of it.

--- Steve


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 03:34 PM

I second Frank's comment about the Folkways Darling Corey record. In 1952, the first time I walked into Seattle's "Campus Music and Gallery" (where I had been many times before buying classical, opera, etc.) with the intention of specifically blowing the budget on some folk music records, mainly with the idea of getting records I could learn some songs from, I walked out with a Burl Ives, a Richard Dyer-Bennet, a Susan Reed, a Josh White, and Darling Corey. How's that for a mix?

I now have about three and a half feet of shelf space devoted to vinyl folk records. And a multitude of CDs. All kinds. Lots of Pete.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Alonzo M. Zilch (inactive)
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 03:20 PM

Frank,

"Darling Corey" was combined with "The Goofing Off Suite" and reissued as a Smithsonian Folkways CD in 1993.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 02:58 PM

Ron, please use anything I say freely and I am honored for the compliment.

I believe that one of the best Pete Seeger albums ever is the Folkways Records "Darling Corey". It shows his artistry as a musician, interpreter and accompanist for a beautiful selection of ballads and folk songs. I wish that someone would do a CD of this. It's a classic.

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 02:00 PM

Allow me to lift my leg on you, Guest.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 09:13 AM

This website has gone to the dogs


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Peter T.
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 09:10 AM

Like many another thread, this one suffers from moral entropy. yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: EBarnacle
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 08:38 AM

Re: Bill's las post.
As a Conservative, tending toward Reform, Jew, I have had more than a few discussions about whether Pete is anti-semitic. As stated above, no he is not.

There has to be an openness to new experiences. Last weekend, I was invited to a comedy club. The people on stage were breaking up most of the audience. A lot of it was potty humor, meant to shock rather than actually amuse. I didn't get it. I was not particularly amused. I was there, however, to be exposed.

The same applies to folk music. The purists insist that there is no folk music less than 100 years old. Does "Fiddler's Green" count? Even though the author is well known, it is often presented as trad.

Others insist that folk music includes current material, often political and that old, beautiful or emotive stuff is passe. There has to a willingness to compromise and listen to both sides of the issue.

How did we devolve into this angry discussion from the announcement of Pete's impending retirement?


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Peace
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 10:03 PM

Guest, nobody asked you.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 09:51 PM

Is saying the word 'Jew', being anti-semetic now?

Too much paranoia in this world, if you ask me.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 09:45 PM

It might be that we have different definitions of "respect". To me "respect" means understanding, not "liking".


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: lucky_p
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 08:57 PM

I am a Jewish athiest and a daughter of holocaust survivors, and I am deeply offended. But I do believe I would be equally if not more offended if I were Gentile, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim or Pantheist.

If you have no respect for others, you obviously have no respect for yourself.

And love is what keeps it all going.

That's all.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 08:51 PM

Martin---The GUEST has a real problem. We cannot, however, sink to that level. A discussion of any topic in proper terms is always valid.

Recently I---and I am Jewish--non practicing (for honesty and disclaimer)(by the way how does one practice---like a piano lesson?)(another thread for humor I guess---I could do a riff on that). Back to the first sentence---Recently I---and I am Jewish---had a complaint from a listener to my program (I co-host a show with Ron Olesko) that I play too much Gospel and he does not want proselytization.   He still does not get it. It is Folk---it is historical. We all have to have open minds and hearts.

As to Guest---what can one say to the masked man---perhaps this---"Intelligent people are open to all things---musical and otherwise. Bigots are those with closed minds that will end up in their own obsessions creating their own hell." Hopefully---it comes sooner than later.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 08:40 PM

Let the Guest post two above this 20 Sep 04 08:09 stay as a prime example of the anti-semetism that can be found on Mudcat.

It doesn't really offend me. Being Jewish, you learn to live with and ignore the bigots and goons like this. You lower the music threads into the realm of whale shit, Guest.

You know what Guest, I dig Buck Owens music no matter what. But I wouldn't listen to English folk music. I'm not too fond of British comedy, either. Respecting all of it would be too big of a generalization. I would prefer to be selective in what I respect and not just give everything I don't like a blanket nod of respect.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 08:17 PM

Martin---what is that about? Sounds like the discussion is moving off the higher plane and back to the place where one has to step up to reach the sidewalk.

Bill H


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 08:09 PM

I'll make you a deal. I'll go listen to Ralph if you listen to some hot stuff by Buck Owens - Martin Gibson 20 Sep 04 - 05:57 PM

Like 'Dust On My Mother's Bible', for example

Jews dig that kind of thing?


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 08:02 PM

An addendum so as not to be misunderstood.

My point exactly---respect the music but do not like it---as you said, Ron.   But, gee, dental work without novacaine. I don't know if I would do that---even when I respect something.   

Thankfully my dentist does not have English folk music piped into the procedure room---yet, even if it were, I would still opt for the novocaine.


Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 07:53 PM

Thread drift here---Ron---my G & S mention was merely to make the point that you cannot denigrate other types of music (writing, etc;) and then wonder why people think you are disagreeable. One has to respect all things. Even G&S---who's political (well Gilbert anyway) comments are still valid and who's insights into the human condition are wonderful----and done in a most humorous (love the British spelling of that) way.

Now---If you give me your attention I shall tell you what I am---a genuine philanthropist---all other kinds are sham.   


Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 07:12 PM

Oh for Pete's sake harmonize, if not keep quiet and enjoy the music!


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 07:01 PM

Martin - a few weeks ago I had a guest on my program who told me about a wonderful game he and a friend used to play. One person would start singing an English or Irish song, and the other person would sing the American counterpart.    It could go on for hours.

When I really started to study folk music, I was intrigued by the connectivity between American and British Isle folk music.   I don't think country music would exist today if it weren't for the Scotch-Irish connection, and both owe a lot to the English tradition.

Understand your point though, it isn't everyones cup of tea.   Bill H knows my feeling about Gilbert & Sullivan. I would rather have root canal without novacaine then listen to one of their operas. I do respect what they have done, but it isn't my cup of tea. When I was a production assistant at the original CBS Cable, one of my jobs was supervising edit sessions on five Gilbert & Sullivan operas. The productions were horrible! It tainted me.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 06:49 PM

Martin Gibson said, in part:

Dave, deal with this:

Pete Seeger is way down there in my folk music favorites.

Why? because of the continuous political overtones that overshadows what could be just good music. Yes, I tune that type of folk music out. No, I do not want to go to any concerts of his.


Fine. Quite understandable. And, put that way, in those tones, I have no quarrel with your statement. Nor do I think others here would take umbrage either.

I'll even go a little further, Martin: I generally prefer Pete Seeger's music when he's doing traditional stuff, and feel that sometimes he goes too far ideologically for my taste. A case in point: "Oh, Had I a Golden Thread" (maybe not the exact title) is, to my ears and general sensibilities, a piece of--well, I won't use the C word, and maybe I shouldn't say "junk", but I just don't think it's good songwriting. To paraphrase the Bible, I think Pete Seeger in this instance sold his birthright for a pot of message. But I know some people like this song, and he certainly has the right to write or perform whatever moves him, and it's usually excellent in my book. I will just try to avoid listening to that particular song.

I sure wish I could establish for myself the continuous high standard of musical taste and performance that Pete Seeger has done over the years. And when I come to shuffle off this mortal coil I'd love to think (as I don't by a long shot) that as many people looked up to me as a prime example of what a gracious, ethical human being should be, as what Pete Seeger has earned by his life.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 06:11 PM

Martin, I must add a comment to the note about "....the English stuff puts me off....".   
         One can be excited---or enthused----about something and yet respect and understand other material. I can speak there only for myself. My --to use your word--excitement runs along certain lines (Pete S. being one of many artists in that genre---and some newer ones too). That said, I do open my ears to other things and respect them since, I feel, many things are intertwined with each other. So---not excited, perhaps, by English music I can still respect it for any number of reasons. Most having to do with history, interrelativity (is that a word?) and seeing what other might like.


There is a great song in a Gilbert & Sullivan Opera where the character sings a song bemoaning the fact that everyone thinks him such a disagreeable person when he has so many aesthetic interests and tries to instill them upon society----"....Everyone thinks I am such a disagreeable man----And I Can't Think Why..."

Strange thing though---we all are looking back as it relates to today. I am guilty of not liking the newer generation of music----Rap/Hip Hop/R&R ---can never be on Jeopardy since I have never heard of 90% of these groups---and I am amazed at some of the contestants that are both young and older that are versed in them. It only proves that we all live on this planet but in so many different worlds.

Sorry for the philosophy part of the lecture.


Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 05:57 PM

Lucky p, You've never been to Chicago have you?

I'll make you a deal. I'll go listen to Ralph if you listen to some hot stuff by Buck Owens.

Ron, I am so excited by American music, that the English folk stuff just kind of puts me off to sleep.

I really can't relate to it.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: PoppaGator
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 05:35 PM

Politics aside, what has always been most remarkable about Pete Seeger is (as others have noted above) how well he could "play the audience" -- engage everyone, get 'em to sing along, etc.

Of course, that concern for other humans is probably just what his political convictions were and are all about.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 05:22 PM

Martin - I do think you are missing out by not listening to English folk music, but that is your choice. Ralph McTell is a brilliant musician. It is funny, I don't really think of him as a political musician, although I am reminded of that aspect of his work through weelittledrummer's post.   I guess each of us take what we want from folk music. Frank Hamilton's post was wonderful. Politics and art do mix, and we would not have the canon of traditional music without politics.

Again, to each their own. I admire Martin for being "brutally honest". It is his choice to listen to whatever he desires. For me, I welcome the opportunity to be exposed to new ideas and souncs, and THAT is what folk music and Pete Seeger represent to me.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: lucky_p
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 05:13 PM

Martin,

I don't understand what you gain by snapping at people -- I find it offensive -- not what you say, but how you say it. When you say, "I'm not the least bit interested in English folk music," that is certainly okay. But not the way you say it. You say it in a way that snaps at people, and I don't understand why. If you don't like English folk music, why can't you say, "I appreciate your input about Ralph McTell -- I've never heard him, and I'm probably not going to seek him out. But thanks for the info."

These are two different ways of saying, "I'm not interested." Your way is hostile -- it's honest -- but it's hostile. My way is just as honest, but it's diplomatic and kind.

I'm wondering, how do you think it serves you to be at best, brutally honest, and not diplomatic and kind?


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 04:55 PM

You are right, we may be talking past each other.   

Again, my comments were not directed at you Dave. Some of the comments I've read here and in other threads do seem to take umbrage at Martin as a person. I do think that is hypocritical to react that way. No, you do not have to accept his statements and I'm not defending what he has said in other threads. Pete sings of love and understanding. We do not have to accept offensive statements from others, but we should not react in kind.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 04:48 PM

Dave, deal with this:

Pete Seeger is way down there in my folk music favorites.

Why? because of the continuous political overtones that overshadows what could be just good music. Yes, I tune that type of folk music out. No, I do not want to go to any concerts of his.

Now,is that hostile? Hardly. Ron Olesko has explained to you quite clearly on the two schools of folk music and I thank him for his support.

weelittledrummer, no I am not familiar with the work of Ralph Mctell. Thanks anyhow, as English folk music is something I am not the least bit interested in let alone political English folk music.

RicjM, take a look at how much that you have contributed to this thread's discussion and you will realize that you only agreed with someone who can best be classified as a moron.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 04:26 PM

Ron:

I think we are talking past each other.

My response was to your own language, to wit:

"because he doesn't like Pete Seeger. Is it not a bit hypocritical?"
   and
"when we see so many people knocking Martin because he has another view of Pete Seeger's music."

My point is that most of the hostile reaction to MG is not "because he doesn't like Pete Seeger" or "because he has another view of Pete Seeger's music."

While an angry or impolite response to an offensively phrased (as opposed to unpopular content) post is not pretty or to be desired, I don't think that "hypocritical" is an accurate characterization.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 01:48 PM

If Pete were not political, he wouldn't have had the influence in the idea of folk music that many have. You can't separate an artist from his/her politics. Even a banal empty commercial offering on TV of the inane musical nature is a political statement that says "don't bother me with anything significant, I belong to the corporate establishment that makes me say what they want you to hear."

That's how the music business works. Don't rock the boat if you want airplay which is a political statement in itself.

Many traditional folk songs contain objectionable material about black people, foreigners, abuse of women, or some are just plain dirty songs (a form of folk music.) Some laud the violent exploits of Kings and some reflect other views than ones advocated by the left-wing. Just because it's trad doesn't make it redeeming or particularly deserving of praise in my view.
Traditional folk music is neutral in that it can be doggerel, offensive or wonderful. It's not all great art, however. Even some songs advocating political policy are trite pamphlets rather than insightful reporting. All of them are a comment on the times in which they were created.

But human beings are political animals otherwise they wouldn't survive.

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 12:44 PM

As a zillion people have said before on this site, folk music is political, as is country music, as is any kind of music -- the form, its roots, its tone, its subject matter are drenched in politics. Deciding that music should shut up and just entertain us is a political position -- you want a dream anaesthetized entertainment space. This is what I call "gated music".

Why has no one put Pete's TV programmes on DVD?

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 11:44 AM

My error in the title - thanks for the correction Lucky! The book is indeed Rainbow Quest.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: lucky_p
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 11:14 AM

Agree with Ron Olesko -- the book, to which he is referring, is entitled, Rainbow Quest (unless Ron, there is another book of which I am not familiar?)

Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 11:02 AM

Dave, you proved my point.   People are reacting to Martin's tone and acting in the same manner that they found offensive. Because you disagree with a perceived offensive tone, you react the same way. That IS hypocritical.   The hostile replies, as you say, intensify things and the whole message is lost.   

Belief in ones convictions should allow for a dignified response that does not sink to the level that you object to.

I'm not pointing the finger directly at you Dave since your post was not angry in tone, but if you read many of the posts online you see the connections.   People complain that Mudcat has evolved to mudslinging, and they do not realize that they are part of the problem.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 10:48 AM

Ron Olesko said, in part:

"While I disagree with Martin about political music, I am rather surprised at the outrage being thrown at him because he doesn't like Pete Seeger. Is it not a bit hypocritical?"
* * *
"I think that is apparent when we see so many people knocking Martin because he has another view of Pete Seeger's music."


I disagree with the premise of these two excerpts, Ron. I think the "outrage" has to do not with MG's disliking Pete Seeger or his work, but with the often offensive, emotional tone with which he expresses it. MG has made a number of worthwhile contributions in various threads, but he seems to go out of his way to be objectionable sometimes, and that sort of thing feeds on itself, just cries for a hostile reply. And of course that gets MG's back up, and he intensifies things, and away we go!

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 09:40 AM

Let me be devils advocate for a moment. While I disagree with Martin about political music, I am rather surprised at the outrage being thrown at him because he doesn't like Pete Seeger. Is it not a bit hypocritical? I think one of the lessons I've learned from Pete is that we create our own music and choose to learn from diverse cultures and thought. Martin expresses a different point of view about folk music, and some people get their back up against the wall. To turn Uncle Dave O's point around, it seems like some of us have become defensive because of a lack of confidence in our position.

What Martin referred to early on was the divergence in schools of thought on folk music.   Read Ronald Cohen's brilliant book about the folk revival. He shows how the folk revival grew in the 20th century, and he points out how leftist politics grabbed hold of ONE aspect of folk music and built an audience. We tend to think of people like Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie and all the great writers who have carried on that legacy, but we tend to overlook the conservative movement that also made the folk revival possible. Staunch conservatives like John Jacob Niles and John Lomax shunned the politics of the music in favor of capturing a snapshot of the culture that created it.   You can argue that politics played an important role in development of a culture, but that was not their focus. They were responsible for mining a different aspect of our heritage, and while we can also argue that they censored their own work, I think the same can be said for the left. I think that is apparent when we see so many people knocking Martin because he has another view of Pete Seeger's music.

Because most of us grew up in the folk revival generation - safe to say from the late 40's through the 60's (and maybe later).   Folk music during that period had a strong connection with the left. That connection is very important to me. As someone above said, some of it is preaching to the choir, but I think that is extremely important. Those who sang "We Shall Overcome" during marches during the civil rights movement gained strength from the words.

I urge everyone to read Ron Cohen's book - Rainbow Race. He describes it more eloquently than I can, but it really helps give perspective on the music we love and perhaps will give some people an understanding of where Martin is coming from.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 05:17 AM

Martin, do you know the work of Ralph mcTell at all?

He's one of England's best picker/singer/songwriters - in my book the best. Some of his work is very political. In the Thatcher years we lived through 'which side are you on' sort of times.

Try to imagine the cannon of Irish music without the beautiful rebel songs.

Something has got you worked up - Ithink you need to be more specific for us to understand your point.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Mike Regenstreif
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 11:50 PM

The world premiere of "Isn't This A Time," followed by a
short performance by The Weavers (Pete Seeger, Ronnie Gilbert, Fred
Hellerman and Erik Darling with Eric Weisberg)was a very special,
awe-inspiring night.

The film is a documentary about the tribute concert, held in November
2003, in honour of Harold Leventhal at Carnegie Hall. The featured artists included Arlo Guthrie, Pete Seeger, Leon Bibb, Theo Bikel, Peter, Paul & Mary, Tao Rodriguez Seeger, Sarah Lee Guthrie & Johnny Irion, and The Weavers. Jim Brown, who directed "Wasn't That A Time," about the Weavers' 1980 reunion, did a spectacular job of capturing the concert and a lot of wonderful off-stage moments. And more than just a concert film, it also tells the story of Harold Levanthal's lifetime involvement in folk music and how he defied and masterminded the end of the McCarthy-era blacklist. This is a film not to be missed by anyone who loves folk music.

After the screening, Harold was introduced, said a few words and received a richly deserved standing ovation.

Then the Weavers came out and sang "When the Saints Go Marching In,"
"Music In My Mother's House" and "Wimoweh." Although I've seen Pete
perform on dozens and dozens of occasions, and Ronnie on several, this was the first time I've ever had the opportunity to experience the Weavers, as a group, in person. They were inspired and inspiring. After a standing ovation, they returned to the stage and led us in singing "Goodnight Irene." I can now say that I've sung "Goodnight Irene" with The Weavers.

At the party later on, I was chatting with Pete Seeger, and telling him how much it meant to me to have been there that night, when Roger Ebert walked over and said the same thing to Pete.

Nora Guthrie introduced me to Harold Leventhal, who I was able to thank for being a great role model for those of us non-performers involved in folk music, and to Fred Hellerman, who I'd never met before, but whose music has inspired me since childhood.

It was one of those events that remind us why we do what we do, and why what we do is so important, particularly in these times.

Mike Regenstreif


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 10:53 PM

What's this "shoving their ideologies down people's throats"?

This form of music is seldom or never inflicted on the unwilling. It is perhaps "preaching to the choir", or "consciousness raising" among those likely to be receptive. If one goes to a P. Seeger concert, he's presenting his position to those who have CHOSEN to be there and receive it. You, MG, are not likely to just wander into his concert, thinking it's a circus or something, and get Pete's ideology "shoved down your throat". If you're there, it's because you wanted to be there. Those who dislike his choice of repertoire should and do avoid exposure.

And if a political song of Pete's happens to get played on a radio show you're listening to for other reasons, there's several scenarios:
1. You turn the radio down or off or to another station.
2. You go get a cup of coffee or a beer.
3. You wait (impatiently, I suppose) while it plays. If you do that, it's clearly not offending you enough to do 1 or 2, so it can't be too bad, can it? In any case, it's not going to change your ideological outlook. Nothing is "shoved down your throat".

If his presentation of his ideology bothers you so much, even though you're not required to listen or to like it or agree with it, then I tend to think you have a lack of confidence in the validity and solidity of your own position.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: RichM
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 09:25 PM

Actually, Guest God is right; Martin speaks through his zzzhole.

An unfortunate plumbing anomaly, but don't blame yourself, G!
Most of your creations work fine.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 09:22 PM

Alan Jackson wrote a good one also lucky p.

But it all depends how you look at it. 9/11 was in my opinion was by far a human nightmare as opposed to a political event. I have no problem with that at all. Music should reflect different emnotions of human spirit. I just don't see songs about 9/11 being a rant about a political agenda.

It was much more of a political event to Al Quada I would think.

My case rests, also.

Bill H., thanks for saying what I've been saying for a while. I may not be perfect, but I really do believe I make Guests like that moron look the schmucks they are.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 08:49 PM

Therein lies the problem with Guests---run to another computer and be clever---right ----god?

I may not agree with Martin on many issues and may not like many of his responses but, hopefully, I answer them in an intelligent way.

Sadly the debating form is being prostituted by "zzzholes"
as yourself.

You know who I am so ---no signature


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: lucky_p
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 08:48 PM

Martin:

It depends how you understand the role of Politics and folk musicians' relationship to it. Regarding folk music and modern era, I am sure we both know of legions of folk musicians (singer songwriters) and non folk musicians who wrote pieces as a way of "coming to terms" with 9/11 (of course, you can't ever come to terms with 9/11, but nonetheless attempts were made...); most notably, Judy Collins and Springsteen. Robin Greenstein wrote a great piece, Christine Lavin also wrote one -- many others, too. These were not attempts to shove their political agendas down listeners' throats. The songs are, however, musical responses to a political event, responses to deal with an unspeakable tragedy which, as I said in my earlier post, is a role that folk music (and other musical genres and other forms of art), has always played, to wit: clarifying and distilling feelings. The facts about what happened are one thing, but the feelings of enormous sorrow, shock, mourning, fear, courage. Not to mention Judy Collins' use of "Amazing Grace" as an attempt to bind up the nation's wounds. I rest my case.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,God
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 08:45 PM

Don't waste your time arguing with an idiot. (My fault. I made him that way. Came out of a bad batch. Mutter mutter mutter.)


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Suffet
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 08:34 PM

For what it's worth, Pete Seeger is already booked to appear in two concerts for the People's Music Network in New York next January. The first will be Friday night, January 28, 2005, at the Brooklyn High School for the Arts in Downtown Brooklyn. The other will be a children's concert on Saturday morning, January 29, 2005, at the Renaissance Charter School in Jackson Heights, Queens. Pete will be accompanied at the RSC by members of MacDougal Street Rent Party.

The Brooklyn concert will feature a number of choral groups, including the Brooklyn Women's Chorus, Harmonic Insurgence, and the Disabled In Action Singers. It wil be open to the general public. For ticket information, please call Bev Grant at (718) 230-4999, or e-mail her at:

bevgrant1@aol.com

The Jackson Heights concert will be restricted to Renaissance Charter School students and to children of people attending the PMN Winter Gathering. More information will eventually be available on the PMN website:

http://www.peoplesmusic.org/

--- Steve


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 08:31 PM

It doesn't sum up anything.

Popular country music far outshadows folk music today as the political voice of the masses.

The songs you mentioned lucky P are from a different era.

Many people, myself included have no need for politics in folk music. I would rather just be entertained by it or to entertain an audience.

I can't stand watching folk performers trying to shove their ideologies down everyone's throats just because they have the stage.

Shut up and sing.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 07:45 PM

And "Which Side Are You On" sums it all up.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: lucky_p
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 06:31 PM

MG,

Don't agree with you. Folk music is not being killed by politics. On the contrary folk music (such as "Freiheit" and "De Gedanken Sind Frei," "Wimoweh," "Follow the Drinking Gourd," "Yankee Doodle Dandy," "Shule Roon," "Union Maid," "We Shall Overcome," "This Land is Your Land," "Zog Nit Keinmal") as well as pieces from other musical genres (the 1812 Overture, the Polonaise) have historically been infused by and have infused politics. The reason is that it not only the facts that influence people, but it's the spirit that gets them off their collective butts, gives them courage, gives them hope, clarifies and distills a range of feelings. And folk music particularly -- with lyrics and music -- galvanizes that spirit. Always has. Still does. Always will.


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