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Pete Seeger's last concert

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Subject: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Alonzo M. Zilch (inactive)
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 01:33 AM

I've seen several reports that Pete Seeger's appearance in Toronto next week with the other surviving Weavers -- Fred Hellerman, Ronnie Gilbert and Erik Darling -- will be his last concert. Ever.

Toronto Sun

Soul Shine


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: cobber
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 07:22 AM

God! That makes me feel old. Surely I haven't had my Weavers albums that long. Ronnie Gilbert came to Australia a few years back and sounded as good as ever so that should be a great night. Is anyone recording it?


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Subject: Attention: TORONTO people
From: Alonzo M. Zilch (inactive)
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 01:51 PM

If any of you are going to attend this event, please post a report. Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: pdq
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 04:06 PM

Shouldn't Frank Hamilton be invited?


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: BK Lick
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 04:59 PM

The second of those linked pages contains this contributed comment:
He performs for free in his own community all summer long. He has said that this is his last paying gig.
He will play on I'm sure!

-- BK


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: lucky_p
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 05:25 PM

If so, it makes me sad. A highlight of my early childhood -- what solidified my love for folk music -- was watching Pete perform at my summer camp in upper New York State in 1962. He sang "Wimoweh" and talked about the South African lion sleeping that would soon be getting up, and he was right of course. And we all sang "We Shall Overcome" and meant it, as this was a progressive democratic socialist summer camp governed by equal representation of women, blacks, whites and latins, an anomaly then and even now to some extent, but way before its time. Pete was just so great -- tremendous energy level and terrific harmonies and galvanized the entire audience and blew off the rooftop.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: emilyrain
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 07:03 PM

pete and arlo guthrie's first double album of live sets ("together") is what made me a folkie 'till i die. what a body of work he's produced... what a life.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Emily F.
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 11:25 AM

It's pretty indicative of how far Mudcat has moved from folk music that a thread about Pete Seeger's last concert gets almost no reponse.

It's too bad that Toronto is so far away. I sure wish I could be there.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 11:28 AM

well - the concert hasn't happenned yet - and according to the sources it is only his last PAYING gig - so there really doesn't seem to be much to discuss about it.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 11:35 AM

You are right, Guest, Guest Emily F.

There isn't really that much interest in American folk music here. Not as much as there could or should be.

This is the end of an illustrious career that influenced many, but I guess there isn't enough to talk about for the navel gazers.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Alonzo M. Zilch (inactive)
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 11:36 AM

I've re-read both of the articles that I linked to. Neither says that it is Pete's last PAYING gig. They say it will be his last PUBLIC gig. That suggests to me that Pete is going into full retirement, something that, at 85, I certainly don't begrudge him. If anyone's earned it, it's Pete Seeger. It is, though, an end of an era that began about 65 years ago.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: black walnut
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 11:46 AM

JeffM is going. Looking forward to your report, Jeff!

~b.w.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 12:53 PM

GUEST,Emily F. and Martin Gibson, I don't believe the apparent lack of response to this thread necessarily indicates a lack of interest in folk music here. In a very real sense, it marks the end of an era. Sometimes such things as Pete's retiring from public performing produce such a personal response that they don't seem to call for any particularly public response or display. Rather, it seems to call for a period of contemplation: something similar, perhaps, to a period of mourning. And that can feel very personal; almost too personal to discuss in open forum without, at least, allowing a little time to pass to absorb it.

In fall of 1954, when I had only been playing guitar and singing for a couple of years, Pete gave a concert in a small auditorium (seated about 100) in Seattle's University District. Pete wasn't getting many singing jobs at the time because his battle with the House Un-American Activities Committee scared many people away, but that didn't stop Walt Robertson from arranging the concert, nor did it stop the auditorium from being packed. There was a party for Pete after the concert, and since I was taking guitar lessons from Walt at the time, I was included. It was a great party with lots of singing (Pete wanted to hear local singers), but it was a Tuesday night, and since many people had to work the next day, they began drifting off around midnight. But the party went on, because Pete was game to stay as long as there were people there who wanted to keep singing. About six of us, including Pete, wound up sitting on Carol Lee Waite's living room floor until four o'clock in the morning passing a guitar around—my very recently purchased Martin 00-18—swapping songs and asking Pete questions. As you can imagine, it was an unforgettable evening. And morning.

Those few hours had a lot to do with the course of the rest of my life. So I am certainly not indifferent to Pete's retiring from public performance. And I doubt that I am the only one who Pete's boundless enthusiasm affected in that same way, and who now feel rather sober at this recent news.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 01:00 PM

Don Firth

The fact that you responded now proves how psychology is such a powerful weapon.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 01:05 PM

Martin, this is a thread about Pete. Let's try to keep it on a higher level, shall we?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 01:20 PM

This is getting silly. Does everybody need to respond? What can you say? Pete meant a lot to all of us. He is 85 and trying to take life a little easier. It is understood what he has meant to this music. The fact that folk music has survived to the extent that it has is a testament to his contributions. What is there to discuss?    The fact that the initial message was posted late on Saturday and EmilyF made her comment on Monday morning when there is only a handful of posts points out that most Mudcatters have other things to do on the weekend.

Don't moan about the old lightbulb because the current bulb is burning just fine.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Steve-o
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 01:54 PM

Thank you, Don, for speaking eloquently for most all of us. I sure wish I had a great personal story about Pete, but no such luck. For those of us whose lives were impacted by Pete's music and all that he stands for, all we can do is be thankful, and you're right- sort of mournful. Through his music and his integrity, I feel that I somehow know him- he has a place in my heart. I'll bet many many folks feel this way. I would call him one of the Great Men of the 20th Century. It is, of course, sad to see someone we love get old, but bowing out gracefully is exactly what I would expect from Pete Seeger. He may not be up there on the stage with that amazing enthusiasm and charisma, but his music will live on for many generations.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Midchuck
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 02:26 PM

I would say it was sadder to see someone we love not get old.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 02:29 PM

Don, you wouldn't have responded if I hadn't prodded you.

I , like others have no personal stake in this.

Pete Seeger is over the hill. Probably was years ago. Finally he admits that he can't remember the words any more. It's sad he performed for as long as he did, getting paid for concerts by a way too forgiving audience. Enjoy his records and let the guy retire with what dignity

He had many days in the sun. time to hang up the spikes, I mean banjo and let someone new carry the torch.

Time marches on. Marching to Pretoria is ancient history.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Wesley S
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 04:40 PM

Pete forgot more about folk music than a dozen of us ever knew. He'll be missed of course. I wish I'd had a chance to see him at any point in his career.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 04:42 PM

Marty, you tend to self-inflate. You had nothing to do with my responding to this thread. I didn't discover it until this morning.

As I said, this thread is about Pete. If you want to use it to indulge in your usual small-mindedness, go right ahead and show your true colors. But I've said what I wanted to say in my first post, so there's no reason for me to post anything more here, especially in response to you. That's it. I'm done here.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 04:50 PM

Don't let the door hit you on the way out, Don.

Amazing how you just love to character assasinate with someone who just doesn't agree with you. You are the champion of self-inflated posters, Don.

He's over the hill, Don. I agree, too bad. But , I'll also stand by what I last posted.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 05:02 PM

"over the hill" is a matter of where you are standing. I visited Pete a few years ago. He had just come in from chopping wood. I saw him last year and he did not appear to slip a bit.

The reality is, he is 85 years old. Of course he forgets a few words. His voice is not what it used to be. But it is not bad for an 85 year old.

Were people going to see Pete Seeger for the music? Not exactly. Pete's concerts were events. IF you know anything about the man you understand that his purpose was to educate and to show people how they can make music, and more importantly make a difference.

I don't think anyone ever requested their money back from a Pete Seeger concert. Maybe a few pinheads with closed minds during the McCarthy era, but I believe most people who saw Pete in recent years treasure the moments.

Some people tend to think songs are museum pieces. They can't see how a song like Marching to Pretoria might still have relevance. Folk music is a living tradition, and Pete certainly planted enough seeds to keep it growing.

We can all wave at Martin from whatever hill we are standing on.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 05:10 PM

Your fooling yourself, Ron.

Age has greatly deteriorated his talents, but not necessarily his legend.

However, others have had just as much if not more influence, musically.

You can also wave at me from the ditch and rut you might just be in.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 05:12 PM

One nice note - it is great to see that Pete is still with us and has become a legend, long after the paranoid nutcases tried to blacklist him. He is living proof that the freedoms we fought for in this country do mean something. He won the battle for free speech and is recognized for his contributions to improving our nation while his detractors are forgotten names in forgotten graves.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 05:13 PM

An interesting anecdote that will show that some people never "are over the hill". Recently someone I know had Pete Seeger over to his house to ask him--as a favor-- to record on his home equipment Waist Deep in The Big Muddy (another still relevant piece) because this person had heard him in a local concert and was amazed that he still could hit the higher registers. Lo and behold, I am told that this recording came out quite well.

But, as Ron said, is right on the mark. With Seeger it was not really about the music---it was about an event or a cause. Yes, The Weavers it was both---Music and message---but no soothing massage of bland material.

As to songs staying relevant. Unfortunately many do---and not only Pete Seeger's---think older songs by Phil Ochs for example and also Tom Paxton.

This concert will be having a lot to do with a film that will be released shortly which was filmed as a tribute to Harold Leventhal at a concert in NYC which featured Pete Seeger among many others.

From my point of view---every last person who considers himself a "folk" or a "political" singer owes his career to Seeger and his ongoing causes that kept him and his music in the public eye. One of the most deserved Kennedy Ctr honors of recent memory went to him--rightfully so.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 05:17 PM

I'm high on a hill Martin watching you roll and tumble into your small and lonely crevice.

Of course there are others who had as much and perhaps more influence. Who said differently?   Why is it necessary for you to compare apples and oranges?

You are the one who is creating a limited definition of "talent". Perhaps you would like to point out where he "deteriorated".   I am betting you will say his voice, but that is not what makes Pete great.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 05:19 PM

Nice story Don. I enjoyed it.

Pete has meant so much to so many of us, its hard to put into words all that he has done for us - people like myself, who never met him, saw him perform live even.

he was a skilled interpreter in a time when even Bob Dylan sounded outlandish. He introduced us to all sorts of ethnic music and artists that we should never have been aware of.

A superb folk artist, songwriter, and from all acounts a good man.
I once wrote to him and he found time to write a personal reply.

I wish him and his family some good times together.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 05:38 PM

Ge Ron, it's hard when your heroes bite the dust, isn't it.

Political folk music really isn't my thing, basically. Yes, his voice has deteriorated, his banjo playing has deteriorated, and his IMPACT on music and politics saw it's limelight decades ago to all but a few old time hero worshipper folkies.

His song "Little Boxes" will always be the song I hate the most. He had no right to ridicule what was the WWII vet's American dream of building and buying a home for his family on the GI bill.

His support recently of the Palestinian causes hasn't won him any friends either, of course except his far left save the world from Israel pals.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 05:46 PM

Martin:---get your fact straight---Malvina Reynolds wrote Little Boxes. Seeger sang it---among others.
          Your last sentence re: Palestine/Israel is a bit disjointed and really does not make sense. My sense of his beliefs--and they are just mine--is that they translate into people getting along with people---in short humanity. Israelis argue amongst themselves about policy--Palestinians ditto. Seeger tries to put things into a human and world perspective.

            I don't know to what you are referring as to his songs on that subject---his most recent were about MLK, brotherhood around the world among others in that same vein.

             As to veins it is possible that you have been bled by dear Count Dracul aand a trying to suck the blood of Seeger now with your venomous and uninformed comments.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 05:47 PM

Play nice children.

Here's one of the great teachers/performers/encouragers of the last hundred years sitting down for a bit of a rest and you guys use it as an excuse to namecall, nitpick, badmouth each other -- on a site that probably wouldn't exist without Pete's long years and remarkable efforts. If your life is so full of bitterness and anger go to counseling or therapy. Do volunteer work at a local domestic violence shelter; clean your local waterways; train with the local gov't entity which staffs polling places and do something to make/keep the elections honest; etc. Do something to contribute to the health of your community, and, if you appreciate him, say your doing it in his honor. You might not have so much time (or inclination) to be nasty to each other. Grow up.

There's been a lot of good work and useful accomplishments done by many in the last half-century that's owed to Pete Seeger's inspiration. We should be thanking him (and Toshi) profusely, using that inspiration to carry on, and not wasting energy practicing viciousness. Haven't you learned anything?

I will cherish my personal memories of his warmth and kindness to me as a child; but as I became an adult I also learned to APPRECIATE his capacity to persevere in teaching/doing right -- day after day, trouble after trouble, setback after setback. If we can do half as well we might really bring about positive, healthy change and improvement in all areas.

I bet retirement from performing doesn't mean retirement from encouraging and helping the rest of us.   Tw.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: BK Lick
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 05:49 PM

His song "Little Boxes"...

Tells a lot about the depth of someone's knowledge of folk music, don't it?

   -- BK


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 05:53 PM

Well put---look at this. A simple posting about a concert and a question and all the people who want to be "published" as brilliant critics come out of the proverbial woodwork---people don't come out of woodwork. We do know what does

---and if the Hudson had not been cleaned up by a project started by Seeger there would have been much more rotten woodwork in the various riverfront communities.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 06:24 PM

Responses here echo many that were in the first thread on Mr. Seeger's impending retirement. Though he has championed many causes in his lifetime he has done it with class and has earned the respect that is afforded him. I have seen him in person and read many of his articles and have never known him to spue the kind of hatred that is so common today when people speak of those who hold opposing views. Much could be learned from him on how to address one's concerns. The enjoyment I have found in music is due in part to him. I have not always agreed with his political views, but I am saddened to think he will no longer be performing and helping others enjoy music. I can't imagine him not continuing to speak out for justice and freedom.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 06:50 PM

Martin, Martin.   You ignorant slut.   (sorry Chevy Chase)

I'm not sure why you are making this so personal. I never attacked you and suddenly you come mocking me. Why pick on me? Well, it's your thing, so be it.

I do have to give you credit. I think you realized that most of us would respond to your

You will never understand what Seeger meant to us because you come from a different perspective. I respect that. Many people forget that folk music during the revival had two distinct elements. You help remind us. There was a strong conservative leaning with people like John Lomax and John Jacob Niles. The leftist movement also jumped on the folksong movement and turned it into a tool for social causes. If it wasn't for both sides doing their job, there would have been no folk revival. You can't give credit to one side without acknowledging the other.

I do understand your point about his singing of Malvina Reynold's song, but again you took things the wrong way. If you really listened to the song you would see that it was a gentle protest against the conformity that was taking shape in the 1950s.   He was not begruding any GI for following their dream. He is also a veteran, and he fullfilled his dream by building his own cabin, most of it with his own two hands.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: CapriUni
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 06:51 PM

This is not a "Pete Seeger moment" that I have remmember clearly myself (I think I was about 8 or 9 at the time) but one my mother reminded me of.

We were hosting a Clearwater (that "project started by Seeger" Bill Hahn wrote of) fundraiser at our house. I was sitting on the ground and flinched at the sight of a large beetle walking nearby. When Pete saw that, he commented: "It's only a bug!" According to my mother, I was never afraid of bugs after that...

Okay. So it's not a big, earth-shattering, life-changing moment. But to my mind, it reflects his general attitude that all life is to be respected, and that which is different is not to be feared.

Oh, and I always felt happy when I saw the motto printed on the head of his banjo: "This machine surrounds hate and forces it to surrender."


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 07:02 PM

Bill, Don, and others, why do you respond to such vitriol and ignorance? It is of no significance, while you have much good to share with us. Please do and ignore the little potshots.

Maybe a new motto should be WWPD- What would Pete Do?!

Happy Retirement, Pete and thanks for everything!

kat


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 08:11 PM

Quite a few years before Malvena was astute enough to portray that part of California as well as she did in her good song, Carol and I were driving past that place (Daly City) on the coast and we both mentioned, noted, and shook our heads over the agonizing sight of all those stupid little houses---all in pastel colors and each one, otherwise, a mirror image of the ones on either side of it---as far as the eye could see. That was long before the rest of America, one nauseating housing development after another, became blights on the landscape that made a prfundity out of another line from a decent little song: "They paved paradise and put up a parking lot."

Martin, take note...

Oh, hell, it's just not worth wasting good word and/or time on you.

As long as you live, I will never be provoked into responding to your sickening ranting again.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 08:30 PM

oops. I made an error. I meant to type John Lomax, not Alan in my above post.

fixed it for you - el joe clone -


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: lucky_p
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 10:04 PM

Thank you, Art Thieme. I was sitting at my computer tonight trying to come up with the precise words to convey the precise feelings and thoughts, all with the right tone and right rhythm. But you said it, Art, you said it. It's not worth spending a plug nickel on, not one breath from my body will be exhaled in Martin's direction.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 10:05 PM

Art, that's fine with me. You don't seem to be living much these days anyway. And those "stupid little houses" were full of real people's dreams. You have no right to criticize that without being called a snob, or worse.

Pete seeger was best known for the song Little Boxes even though he did not write it. You do not need to have written a song to be most known for it. Plenty of examples on that.

I found the song stupid and condescending, if not arrogant.

Ron, you are absolutely correct about the two camps of folk music. There is the one that's in it for the music and there is the one that takes itself way too seriously and looking at the world today, has really very little to show for it.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Marc Bernier
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 10:07 PM

Ron, you quoted Dan Akroyd not Chevy Chase. I too felt something lost, when I just saw this thread. I met Pete once about 10 years ago. I was cooking on a schooner that had been chartered by clearwater to do programs on the hudson. (The program has gotten so popular that the sloop clearwater can no longer handle the demand alone). Tao was music educator on board, and Pete stopped by for lunch and an afternoon sail. The 3 of us did the afternoon music program together. That will always be one of the highlights in my career as a musician. And your right. It's not about his voice or his picking. He makes everyone part of the event at that moment. I glad I got my opportunity to experience that.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 10:16 PM

Ooops.   Akroyd, Chase... same thing!

Still stirring the pot Martin!   I would look at the civil rights movement, the labor movement and the anti-war movement and the work all three did. I am sure you will knock each one, but that is your opinion after all.

You of all people find objection to something that is "stupid and condescending, if not arrogant."   I assume you don't own any mirrors? That is a hell of a thing to say about Art. I know you like to stir up crap, and I am sure you will send back an e-mail with a few choice obsenities at me, but so what.

You have a lot going for you Martin. You do make some very good points at times and I know you have a strong knowlege of music and history. It is a shame that you have to attack people and make such ignorant remarks. You lose all credibility when you do that. You could really make a difference instead of becoming a sad caricature of the right.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 10:18 PM

... and I don't think that conservatives in music are taking themselves too seriously. They can have fun with the rest of us if they choose.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 10:30 PM

stupid and condescending, if not arrogant

A great capsule autobiography.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,MG, your 50 minutes are up
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 10:42 PM

Maybe Little Boxes was Pete Seeger's best known song as far as Martin Gibson knows, but he doesn't know much. Pete Seeger didn't write that song, but did he put together some of the best know songs of the 60s. Guantanamera, Turn Turn Turn, Golden Thread, lots of others. Some he wrote outright and some he took verses and put them to music. Either Martin Gibson doesn't know anything about Pete Seeger or he is just trying to get attention. What better way to get attention on a folk music forum than to badmouth someone like Pete Seeger? "I want some attention, I want some attention, I want some attention!"

Sad. Incurable.

S. Freud


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: artbrooks
Date: 14 Sep 04 - 12:46 AM

I remember going back stage...it must have been the early 1990s...to pay Pete after a concert he had done for our Madison (WI) folk group, and saw him putting on the braces he wore for his carpal tunnel. He was in pain every time he played his banjo, yet he kept on sharing his music with the rest of us. I read his "farewell" statement in SingOut a couple of issues ago, and was amazed then that he has lasted as long as he has. Best of luck to him and, after everything he has brought to all of us, I hope he has some years for others to bring things to him.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Peace
Date: 14 Sep 04 - 01:06 AM

Little Boxes: Malvina Reynolds
Turn, Turn, Turn: Eccliastes--word changes, Pete and I think the melody was his
Guantanamera: based on a translation of a poem (?) by Jose Marti

Golden Thread: I'm stumped on this one.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Sep 04 - 01:20 AM

Guantanamera- Music by Jose Fernamdez Dias, poem by Jose Marti, adaptation by Pete Seeger and Julian Orbon. Incompletely attributed in the DT.
Turn, Turn, Turn -Inspired by Eccclesiastes (mispelled also?) but otherwise Pete's.
Now both of those will be running through my head, probably even after I get to sleep.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Sep 04 - 01:48 AM

Eccclesiastes: there is a time for every 'C', son.

Turn, Turn, Turn might stick in my head too. It does that. I also remember Goofing Off Suite and Ode to Joy on banjo. I only saw him once in concert, with Arlo Guthrie, and had a great time. It seems like the end of an era. May he enjoy his retirement, earned many times over.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 14 Sep 04 - 02:00 AM

Check out the Pete Seeger Appreciation website. There you will see what many of us feel about Pete. He was only my mentor from afar, the man who precipitated all of my positive social tendencies, the one who showed me the glory of this music and an appreciation for the traditional discipline that is what at least one side of this folk music scene is all about. The Hammer Song, the incandescent Bells Of Rhymney, beautiful arrangements and tunes for several hundred traditional ballads and songs, Weavers songs, Almanac Singers songs, union songs, accessible versions of Spanish Civil War Songs, popularizing the work of Woody Guthrie, Tom Paxton and so many others. I'm glad to be able to say this man showed me the way by his shining examples all through the last half century. I MUST stand here and bar the way when this man is verbally trounced by a reurrected batch of verbal vigilantees who want to tear down all the good advancements since the New Deal in the name of maximizing the bottom lines of people who are already billionaires. This is not a diatribe against M.G. It is only a feeble try at standing up for Pete Seeger. By God, he sure stood tall through most of the last century pointing out to me and anyone with their eyes half open all the causes that it only took a bit of common sense to see the rightness of.

I am tired and rambling tonight and ought to hit the sack, but enduring a negative diatribe aimed at Pete in this thread discussing the sad loss of his abilities---not to mention the loss of his regular and valued presence in my life, yes, that is simply way over the top--and more than I will keep quiet for. Pete Seeger is the bright beacon that helped me to find my own road through the dead marshes of American show biz. For that I will always be thankful and grateful.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Sep 04 - 02:42 AM

I thought I knew Pete Seeger's music. I've listened ot his 1963 Carnegie Hall "We Shall Overcome" concert over and over again, along with al three concert recordings he made with Arlo Guthrie. I have so many Pete CD's I didn't think I needed to buy any more.
Then I came across the first American Favorite Ballads CD, and I discovered the traditional side of Pete Seeger. Pete's American Favorite Ballads songbook (Oak Publications, 1961) is nice, but the CD series should be even better. Five CD's are planned, including recordings from his five American Favorite Ballads LP's, and additional cuts from Frontier Ballads and American Ballads. I like Pete's political songs and all the other stuff I've heard, but I didn't know he'd do such good work on traditional songs like these.

There are three CD's out so far, with at least 25 tracks on each CD. Pete recorded 38 albums for Folkways from 1950 to 1964. This ballads series shows off Pete's work at its best.

I've always wanted to hear Pete in person, and I regret that I'll never have the chance.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Sep 04 - 04:37 AM

Art, even when you're tired and rambling ...you're wonderful. That was very nicely put.

I think also Pete will be remebered for getting people to use the banjo as accompaniment when Scruggs and co had turned it so successfully into a lead instrument in a band. Pete made us look at Frank Profit, long neck banjos, fretless banjos and all sorts of different picking styles - frailing, Kentucky up picking etc.

It always amazes me you don't see Irish bands use that 5-string picking style for 6/8 time that Pete did the Irish Washerwoman with on his tuition album. Still I suppose the 5 string isn't an Irish instrument.

Perhaps Martin didn't live in the 1950's and early 60's and he didn't know how bloody stifling the bonds of conformity were for many of us, who found ourselves in Little Boxes, both real and metaphorical. it was an international hit - it had many resonances for us in England - growing up with rationing, austerity and our parents expectations. And yeh our parents were grateful to be alive after years of bombing and the menfolk having to go out and fight - but they weren't dumb - they knew they were being sold short. After all that's just sound economics for the right....dreams of paradise, my bottom!

If you don't get Pete Seeger..... I'm sort of sorry for you. I'm doing a gig tonight in Derby and I'll be doing a sort of tribute. Freight Train was the first song I ever heard Pete play, and it was on the London Palladium television show. It was the first time I had ever heard a twelve string guitar. He played Little Boxes and what did you learn in school today?

Martin don't bother replying to this, go out and do something nice. Try and influence one person to pick up the guitar and perform. Pete made that gift to millions of us.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: cobber
Date: 14 Sep 04 - 04:46 AM

Just after I left school in 1964, I went to a party where everyone had to take their favourite record. I took the Weavers reunion concert and when my turn came, I played Wimowey. The thing some people miss about Pete Seeger is that the main instrument he plays is the audience. It wouldn't matter if he was 185 and croaking like a frog, his ability to get other people singing and enjoying the music is his strength.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 14 Sep 04 - 12:13 PM

In 1979, after folksinger Michael Cooney had been horribly injured in an automobile accident with a drunk driver, we in Chicago did a large benefit for Michael.   Just four of us. Steve Goodman , Cindy Mangsen, Pete Seeger and myself were on the bill. Pete had terrible larengitis (spelling ?). (That's not a Greek name.) Pete did exactly as Cobber said. He'd croak out a first line, hit the banjo a bit, motion to the sudience---and the rest was magic. Eight part harmonies coming from the audience.

Eventually Steve Goodman took over and -- Bob Gibson came out and Steve led a finale "Mama Don't 'Llow" that took the roof of. Of course, steve picked the banjo on that one. I did my musical saw, jes harp and nose flute..."Mama don't allow no nose flute playing (picking ?) 'round here"

Pete was and is the best.

Art


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Art
Date: 14 Sep 04 - 12:16 PM

Of course, the ought to be "Pete played the banjo." And I was talking about a jaws/jews/juice/whatever harp. ;-)

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 14 Sep 04 - 12:19 PM

weelittledrummer, I will reply. I DEFINATELY lived through the 50s and 60s and have been aware of playing folk music since approx. 1958

I started out on banjo like everyone else with the red covered "How to Play the 5-string banjo" book. Quite frankly, outside of the basic strum, I did not learn to much. I learned more from listening to Dave Guard of the Kingston Trio and then later from Earl Scruggs on their records. You do not have to be a Pete Seeger fan to have a positive influence on others musically. Many others have filled that need for me. Please go ahead and perform Little Boxes if you want to. I could think of better songs that I perform, but for your show, well, it's your show.

I can understand that Pete Seeger was many people's hero. He really wasn't mine as far as a folk artist goes, but I want you all to know that I do understand how people like Art feel. I felt the same way when Waylon Jennings passed away after I followed his career for 35 years and know how much of an impact he had on me. some of you may think he wasn't worth it and that is OK if you express that, but you also have to realize that Pete Seeger wasn't that big of an influence to me as other folk and later country musicians were.

So, he is done with performing. Please quit moaning and be thankful for what you got out of him, but realize that for some he wasn't as significant as he was for you.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 14 Sep 04 - 12:22 PM

I still remember taking a housemate who had never before seen Pete Seeger in person to a concert he did in Boston in Spring of 1976. She had known him through recordings, and I explained to Sarah that you don't go to a Pete Seeger concert to hear him sing--you go to sing for him. That difference is what made every Pete Seeger concert an event, not just a concert--because he had EVERYBODY singing. It was never really about his voice (though his banjo could be virtuosic when he wanted it to be); it was about his genius as a song-leader.

--Charlie Baum


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Sep 04 - 01:07 PM

Well done Martin!   I agree with your last post 100%.   Everyone has individual "mentors" that they look up to. Pete certainly filled that roll for many.    Unfortunately some people look for one significant event or person and make that the centerpiece of a movement.   There were MANY individuals that were involved in the folk revival that do not get the credit they deserve. I agree with you that Dave Guard does not get the credit he is due for the work he did.

Folk music is not a sport. It bothers me that so many people find a need to compare apples and oranges. Both have a place.

We can't diminish Seeger's role. While he may not have played an important role in Martin's life, there are many of us who love and cherish Pete. There are places for all of us.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Sep 04 - 01:31 PM

From what I've heard Pete found an obscure spiritual and suggested to Martin Luthur King that "We Shall Overcome" might be a good song for the freedom movement.

Pete Seeger helped popularize the 12 string guitar. And invented the long neck banjo as mentioned before.

Pete also appeared before the HUAC and stood his ground.

Everyone somewhere in the world knows and loves a song that Pete Seeger had his hands on. The evidence is clear on that.

Easily one of the most influential musicians of the 20th Century.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 14 Sep 04 - 01:48 PM

I doubt I would jump into a thread on the sadness of Waylon losing his sexual prowess, or his life for that matter, and turn off those who admire him just because I could. It'd serve no purpose I can discern.

Art


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Nerd
Date: 14 Sep 04 - 01:51 PM

I just want to second Joe Offer's post. Get those "American Favorite Ballads" CDs.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Sep 04 - 02:01 PM

Well said, Art.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 07:10 AM

Thanks for replying Martin. in the event I did Freight Train which I always associated with Pete and the 12 string.

Sorry if I sounded peevish and ratty. you don't rate Pete seeger. i guess that's alright.

who knows, perhaps he doesn't speak well of you.

we've all got our blind spots. I know its difficult, but i think it as well to keep quiet about them. we offend people when we see the red mist. its so easy to do on this site.

I always used to think that the creative process was as much about what you reject and what repels you, as what it is that turns you on.

as you get older, that truth gets increasingly hard to handle. negative feelings get voiced about stuff and people who have meant something to you, and the world seems increasingly impertinent and abrasive.

keep strumming, Pete would want that - or perhaps not - who knows!


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Midchuck
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 07:26 AM

Art, if it's any consolation, we have two cats - black and white brothers, one longhair, one shorthair - named Waylon and Willie.

Waylon has, in fact, lost his sexual prowess.

So has Willie.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Alonzo M. Zilch (inactive)
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 08:42 AM

A Weavers record that my parents had in the 1950s was my introduction to folk music. Over the years I've amassed dozens of Pete Seeger LPs and CDs and have seen him perform many, many times. That's me (and hundred others) you hear singing with him on the "Singalong at Sanders Theater" CDs.

It's now been about ten years since I last saw Pete perform. I wish him the best and sure wish I could be one of the lucky few that gets to see him with the Weavers in Toronto.

Brucie, Pete wrote both the words and the music to "O Had I A Golden Thread."

Thanks to everyone who didn't let Martin Gibson spoil the thread.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 11:54 AM

I yield to no-one in my admiration for Pete Seeger.

Howsomever, that song, "Oh, Had I a Golden Thread" is about as bad a song as I've ever heard, in my opinion. I came close to nominating it in the "Worst Song" thread.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 11:58 AM

When you see a post praising someone for their accomplishment and expressing appreciation for what they have meant and then you don't see a post belittling the hero and making sport of those who join in the praise, that was me who didn't post.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 12:19 PM

Two schools of thought here:

"If you don't have anything good to say, don't say it."

If you don't have something good to say, say it anyway and be honest about it."

There is a lot that we hear that we don't want to hear. My suggestion is if you are uncomfortable with someone's honest feelings, please get yourself another pillow. It's not always a matter of jumping in just because they can.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 12:40 PM

Hi Ron,

Was put in mind of what Dizzy Gillespie said about Louis Armstrong.
"No Louis, no me".

I think the same can be said for Dave Guard and Dave if he were here would agree.

Almost everyone in folk-related music owes Pete. He championed Dylan when Bob was called "Hammond's Folly"., Pete introduced Scruggs style playing to New York audiences. I bet Roger Sprung owes him too. I know Eric Weissberg does. I believe they would say so.

And how about Woody and Leadbelly? Pete was a one-man publicity campaign for both performers. Pete once told me, "You know I'd give up all I know about the five-string banjo if I could play like Leadbelly."

Pete promoted the Almanac Singers.

He toured a whole year with Sonny Terry to introduce the harmonica master to concert audiences.

Odetta owes him too and I know she would say so. He championed her at the inception of her career.

The Old Town School of Folk Music owes Pete as well. He introduced a fundamental and important idea that music is not an elitist or exclusive club.
This was and is the raison d'etre behind the success of the School.

I can't think of anybody who I've known in folk music including Bascom Lamar Lunsford who doesn't owe Pete. Pete was responsible for Bascom on Folkways Records.

Pete reached out beyond partisan politics. He gave a memorable concert and enchanted the Young Republicans (when they were a different breed in the 50's). Nelson Rockefeller was a fan.

Pete introduced the folk world to so-called World Music. His group, the Song Swappers popularized South African Zulu chants in the folkie crowd paving the way for Wimoweh and Miriam McKeba.

Johnny Carignan, the virtuoso French Canadian fiddler idolized Pete.

Pete toured with Big Bill Broonzy as he did with Sonny Terry so that his audience could hear this great artist.

He accompanied the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem at Carnegie Hall, one of their first recordings.

Even folks at the Grand Ol' Opry knew Pete. I know Earl Scruggs would have good things to say about him.

Pete once took me to the Riverside Rancho a, Los Angeles country music club to hear Merle Travis. That was quite a meeting. Merle certainly knew Pete and admired him.

Pete has touched so many musical lives as well as just lives that most people wouldn't be aware of this.

No Pete, no John Hartford, Bob Gibson, Dave Guard, Alex Hassilev, and I believe even Bela Flek, Eric Weissberg, Billy Faer, Erik Darling, Fleming Brown, Bill Keith, ....damn so many.

Yeah, no me too. And I know I'm not alone.

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Jack The Lad
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 12:57 PM

Pete was and is a gentleman, a wondeful entertainer and an inspiration for millions of people the world over. It is a moving experience to be at one of his concerts- indeed , in his presence.
I don't know anything about his "championing the Palestinian cause",
Martin- but even if he does so- I am sure he has not lost his regard
and respect for the decent achievements of Israel.
It was my pleasure to meet him here in Israel in 1963- at an International Youth Conference, when he inspired and encouraged many of us young "pioneers". I again recently met him at Woodstock NY, when many were moved to tears just to be there with him.
When I introduced myself to him- as being from Israel- he did not enter into any political discussion- or any "championing" of anyone's cause. Rather he took the time to suggest a way of harnessing wind and waterpower to the benefit of everyone in the region.
I can only wish him a comfortable and healthy old age- he may be retiring from the stage- but I am sure he will never retire from his love and concern for all humanity.
Shanna Tova (Happy New Year) to all of you.
May the coming year bring Peace to all of us.
Jack The Lad


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 01:50 PM

Hi Frank,

I hope I was not misunderstood. I am not taking anything away from Pete Seeger. He is one of the reasons why I grew to love folk music. I love Pete Seeger and I can't imagine what the world would be like he never existed. He is one of those people that you can point to and say they made a difference in the way we live. Pete deserves every honor bestowed upon him.

What I was attempting to say is that the others you mention certainly deserve credit for carrying on the tradition, and often they are overlooked. Martin credits Dave Guard for his interest in folk music. Your point is very well taken, we need to look back at their sources. Disciples deserve recognition for their work as well.

How about Pete's influences?

Have you read Ronald Cohen's book about the folk revival?   I was very intrigued by the way he wove so many threads together that made up the revival in the U.S.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 02:42 PM

The thing some people miss about Pete Seeger is that the main instrument he plays is the audience.

I was reading through this and surprised noone said that, until at last cobber did. Precisely - no one I've ever come across can play that instrument as well, or even in the same league. (Though maybe there was one man who came pretty close, and that was Alex Campbell.)

Mind, there was just one time he came unstuck with that I can remember, and that was when he was in the Albert Hall, and tried to teach an English audience to yodel. People were trying, but nothing came out, just silence and some gasps and coughs. But when it came to singing he got that audience to sing out loud enough to take the roof off.

And I'm glad someone mentined his Goofing off suite - and wasn't it great when they put out Raising Arizona, and there it was blasting out pver the end titles. Absolute magic.

And I'm also glad we're saying these things while he's still here, rather than saving them up till it's too late. (Setting aside the occasional distracting ego-trip posts from ** which are best set aside anyway.)


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 03:18 PM

63 posts now since I said no one had much to say.

See post number 10.

Good morning, everyone.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 03:42 PM

Two schools of thought

1) Leave us admirers alone as we reminisce sadly and gently about our dear Pete and his career. You (not being in sympathy with the general mood of the thread) start another thread Is Pete Seeger Rubbish? where you and you pals can expound how Pete devastated your life and made existence itself a burden.

2) Gatecrash the party and get on as many peoples tits as you know how: generally stamping on toes, kicking shins, belching in polite society etc.

Which one Martin?


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Barnyard Philospher
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 03:43 PM

MG is just like a rooster who thinks the sun came up because he crowed.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: jack halyard
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 03:54 PM

"To everything (turn turn turn) there is a season, (turn turn turn)
And a time to every purpose under heaven."

What a season Pete Seeger has had, and what a purpose has he fulfilled. I think the length of this thread proves mudcat is still a solid body of folkies. Here's to ol' Pete and to Mudcatters. Your good health all! Jack Halyard.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 04:07 PM

Sorry, weelittle drummer

I never said that Pete Seeger is rubbish and have no intention to.

I don't see any threads here by invitation only or even one that says "Stay out if You don't agree with us."

This is an open forum. You need to be able to control how far your shorts creep.

Schools out.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 04:22 PM


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 04:42 PM

Sorry for the blank, I hit the wrong key.
I have never had the pleasure of seeing Pete live, and although I have loved his music, my respect for him comes more from his dedication to the cause of helping others improve their lot in life. The music , of course, gave him the openings , but his spirit runs much deeper. Many so called stars of music only use their talent to increase their personal wealth. The man could have made a vast fortune with his talent and name but chose instead to stand for his beliefs. For that , Pete I salute you!


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 06:53 PM

All I know about Pete was his enormous wisdom about life, but I never met him or seen him sing a crowd. I did have his Banjo book for years and with it learned a few great folk songs. I must say though it wasn't just about the Banjo.

So here's a toast to you Mr Pete Seeger who has touched with kindness so many, may your retirement be as much fun as the many songs we sing with you.


And I would give anything to get my hands on that Martin 0018 to see if I could get some songs from it.

With much love and peace to everybody in these most holy days!


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: van lingle
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 09:38 PM

I never met the man but he still seems like such an enormous part of my life. Thanks all, for sharing your memories and insights while celebrating Pete. vl


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Sep 04 - 11:09 PM

of course you can stay, just try to be nicer to everybody!


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Mike Regenstreif
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 11:32 AM

I was honoured to have received a VIP invitation to attend the event, and the private reception afterward, and will be heading to Toronto tomorrow for it.

Although I've known Pete for 30+ years and have probably seen him perform 50 or 60 times, I think this will be a very special, emotional event.

Note to Martin Gibson: I won't pretend to speak for Pete about his stance on Palestinian issues. However, from what I've been able to discern, his support for a just peace for both sides, and a Palestinian state, is not inconsistent with the position of the vast majority of Israelis themselves.

Mike Regenstreif


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Alonzo M. Zilch (inactive)
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 01:40 PM

Please post a report Mike.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Folkiedave
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 02:07 PM

I saw Pete perform in the UK twice once at the Manchester FTH and once in Liverpool at the Spinners Tenth birthday concert (about 1962/3) And I didn't ravel 150 miles to see the Spinners.

Thanks for the memories Pete.

Dave


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 04:05 PM

Hi Ron,

Didn't mean to imply that you didn't love and admire Pete because I know you do. Like me, you are one of his fans for sure. Guess I didn't make myself clear enough. I was really answering the idea that musicians don't just sprout out of the ground. Any great one is standing on the shoulders of someone else and Pete has broad shoulders.

As to the Palestinian thing, Pete is a peacemaker and always has been. He has always been compassionate about those that are oppressed, regardless of where they live.

"Con los pobres de la Tierra, quero yo me suerte echar".

That's Pete.

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Peace
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 04:12 PM

And that's true.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Deckman
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 05:02 PM

Frank ... "Any great one is standing on the shoulders of someone else, and Pete has broad shoulders." That's a GREAT line, may I use it?

I wanted to add a little something to this thread. I first met Pete when he and Sonny Terry and J.C. Burrows (sp?) came to Seattle about 1956 or 57. I helped to organize and promote him in a concert at the Moore theater. That was important as it was just about the first of the concerts he did where he finally started breaking the blacklisting. I put them all up at my house for a week or so ... not really a strain on me, quite a pleasure actually!!!

About two years later, he was in Seattle again. At that time, I was disgusted with my initial two years of college, I had an itchy foot, and I wanted to go to San Francisco with Don Firth to win my way to wealth and fame. Of course that meant that I would be dropping out of college.

One afternoon, I was expressing my delemma to Pete. I think I said something stupid like: "Geeze. I want to drop out of college, just like you, and travel the world and sing songs!"

He sat me down and lectured me for half an hour about what a dumb idea that was and how he'd wished he stayed in school and earned his college degree.

I've always remembered that story fondly. I didn't get my degree until I was 35. Pretty dumb ... eh? CHEERS and thanks again for this thread. Bob


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 07:56 PM

Aye, Bob, I did the same----but never got that degree. Just kept pickin' until I couldn't. And through it all, Pete was there. He was a touchstone. I use a walker now when I can as a touchstone of sorts. And Pete Seeger endures...

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Deckman
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 02:36 AM

Hi Art!

Yes, Pete is a touchstone. "Touchstone" is an interesting word, and well chosen by you.

As I'm so damned old as I am, I have unfortunatly outlived many friends. Whenever this has occurred, I always try to get what I call a "touchstone." That is, something, usually small and of little value that that person "touched" every day, and reminds me of them everytime that I touch it. My "touchstones" include things like: a favorite conductors baton; a tie, a penknife used to open his everyday mail, etc.
The wonderful thing about Pete Seeger is that we still have him. And as followers in his traditions, we are ALL "touchstones" to his ongoing legacy. CHEERS, Bob


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 03:13 AM

Much nicer, children.

And thank you, whoever said it; about Pete's best instrument being his audience -- whether of one (see individ. stories above), a hundred, or several thousands. Tw.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: black walnut
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 08:43 AM

Big article in the Toronto Star this morning about the movie and the concert. We (my husband and I) were given 2 free tickets yesterday to see the Saturday 11 o'clock showing of the movie. We won't get to witness the historic concert, but it'll be a treat nontheless, to see the movie during the Film Festival.

~b.w.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 10:11 AM

Nice thread.

I met Mr Seeger for a brief instant with my brother, in the lobby of the St Mortiz Hotel in NYC. Pete was on his way to some kind of folk convention, but he took the time to chat with us (my brother had met him at his high school when he was President of the folk club, and Seeger had come to perform and talk with the group.)Whether or not Pete actually remembered my brother, I'll never know, but he certainly acted as if he had and was warm and treated him like a fellow "artist". He even invited my brother to join him upstairs, which sadly, he wasn't able to do.

Having seen Pete Seeger perform, and having seen him respond to an awed teen-aged boy and his kid sister both told me what I needed to know- He's a Prince of a Man and a King of Folk Music.

..xx..e


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 02:12 PM

One of the photos I took of Pete (in my collection) is quite dark but nonetheless impressive I think. It was taken on stage. I was so excited to be actually picking with Pete--my first time ever to be doing that. Since I had my camera around my neck, I just had to try a shot---as luck would have it - right into the colored spot lights. If I'm correct, we were at the Great River Folk Festival on the campus of the University Of Wisconsin at LaCrosse.

Real nostalgia.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 02:23 PM

I am a little confused.
Articles on this Seeger concert (Toronto Sun today) have been of the impression that Pete Seeger has not performed in public in two decades.
I went back to an article at the top of this thread and it states he has refused to play for a "paying" public since 1982. That's some difference in reality.

Ah, journalism. I guess its how things are interpreted - but I can pretty much say that I saw him at Toronto's Ontario Place Forum with Arlo Guthrie around about 1984 or 1985, since it was with my wife, who was not known to me until then.

In any case, maybe then he took no money from that performance or he and Arlo donated to some thing and did it pro bono otherwise, etc.

But to think that Pete Seeger had not performed in "public" for 20 years is passing strange to me. He MUST have been playing and singing somewhere - Clearwater and all the other causes?

Brian


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 04:22 PM

I can attest to Deckman's practice of adopting a "touchstone." He asked to poke through my Dad's guitar case looking for such an object after Dad died. The guitar case was of course the perfect place to locate such an object, since music was so important to Dad and that's how he made so many friends. (I don't remember what you picked up, but I did the same thing ahead of you--I went straight for the tuning fork that I'd always loved to play with as a child).

SRS


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Deckman
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 04:37 PM

I still have his capo Maggy. You may have it back anytime you choose. Actually, I have quite a collection of capos from passed friends. Bob


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 05:07 PM

You folks have me thinking of "A Handful Of Songs"---by Jerry Rasmussen !

Pete has played all along during the times you are talking about. He came to Chicago and did a benefit for me when my health first went south---1991. He did a fine concert with old friends Caty Fink & Marcy Marxer around 2001 or '02. He was here in Chicago and joined the group WEAVERMANIA on stage at a concert at The Chicago Historical Society -- and wound up doing half the concert with them. And, of course, in recent times, Pete has been singing with his grandson, Tau Rodriguez.

I think what this retirement means is that Pete will only be doing bnefits.


Art


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 05:18 PM

Post number 100!

I hope Pete does a benefit for Israel.

Or for 9/11 victims.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Peace
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 06:26 PM

Does anyone know where Meeka is?


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: EBarnacle
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 07:26 PM

I just looked up Oh, Had I a Golden Thread" in "Where have all the Flowers Gone?" According to Pete, he got his inspiration from "Nearer My God to Thee." One thing about Pete, he makes it a point to cite his sources.

I expect to see him Oct 2 at the Clearwater Annual Meeting, where he will pick up his banjo and do a song or two. He has been contemplating retirement for quite a while. Neither he nor Toshi is as young as they were and they wish to enjoy their works, which are many.

He is aware of his deterioration and is handling it like the gentleman he is. When Lady Hillary and I ran into him at the Revival, he said "I know I know you but I forget your name." I supplied it and introduced him to Lady Hillary.

One thing that gets little mention is his art work. He is an inveterate sketcher and painter. If you have one of his drawings, you have a treasure. He did many as throwaways but they are really nice. [Take that from my other hat as an art dealer.]

He has been a participant in and a spur to many of the public actions of the past 65 years. He has not been an idle observer. How many people can say they created a movement that saved a river?

In re: Palestine Pete does not line up against, except what he sees as injustice and hate. He is for the Palestinian and Israeli people, not the killers. When peace comes, part of the reason will be people who grew up singing his songs together. He has been consistent in this sort of stand for at least the past 35 years.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 08:20 PM

Well put!! He has sung and supported both sides over the years (think back to the 50s and up to the present).   Humanity is what he is about.   And his talent and charisma helps achieve his and, hopefully our, goals.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: MAG
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 09:27 PM

He was at the Jonesborough Storytelling Festival not all that long ago, and less than 10   years ago was at Folklife in Seattle.

Folklife   is free; the storytelling has an admission charge but nobody gets paid. Both times he got people siiinging with little apparent effort.

One class act. no pun intended. or, maybe it was.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: black walnut
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 07:39 AM

JeffM (who was at the concert) emailed me at 2:00AM this morning!!! Sounds like it was a great show and quite a party!!! Details, JeffM, Details. And Mike, and anyone else who was there.

~b.w.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Peter T.
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 10:28 AM

TOTAL BLISS!! Having missed Pete Seeger all those years (not being an obsessive folkie till I got here), I assumed I would never see him when he stopped really performing, and then to have THE WEAVERS (Cripes!) show up on the doorstep!! Got into line about 7, and got in -- can't tell you what a thrill it was just knowing I had got in. The Elgin was packed (old theatre, perfect place, everyone close), and we started off with the film (some sound problems at the outset, which was a laugh) -- a fine film, captures the Carnegie Hall concert well, and some of the history, just a great wallow. And then Roger Ebert came out, introduced Harold (Harold!) to a massive standing ovation, and then out came the Weavers, very simply, Eric Darling, Fred Hellerman, Ronnie Gilbert (who I had seen before), Pete Seeger (Pete Seeger!!!), and Eric Weissberg. They sang four songs, When the Saints, Music in My Mother's House, Wimoweh, and (surprise) Goodnight Irene. The most touching moments for me were when Pete did a little bango work (frail, not frailing), and, at the end of Irene, he took the verse that ended with: "Sing me one last song." And then they were gone. Man o man. The Weavers!! Man o man!! Still buzzing!!

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Amos
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 10:44 AM

Aww, PT, I am so happy for you to have been there!! What a thrill, man!!

A


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Shimbo Darktree
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 10:47 AM

Fascinating reading. As a side issue, does vitriolic posting come with automatically poor spelling and grammar, or is it the result of real effort?

I still have several Weaver's LPs, and two or three of Seeger's songbooks. They still get used. More power to him; a great folkie, and a great human being.

Regards to the less vitriolic,

Shimbo


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: black walnut
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 03:32 PM

Oh, Peter, that's fantastic! My husband and I just got back from seeing the movie at the Varsity. The film is challenging, moving, informative, magical and fun. It treats the subject with passion and integrity. It is a MUST SEE MOVIE!!!!!

Great to have the introduction and QA period afterward, as part of the film festival.

What made it even more special for us was that we'd just seen Arlo Guthrie up at the Ottawa Folk Festival at the end of August, which made the whole thing feel a bit more personal.

~b.w.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: black walnut
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 03:49 PM

Oh, and one more thing - Leon Bibb's Shenandoah is a real highlight in the film.   Stunningly beautiful.

~b.w.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,A music lover but politics hater
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 07:22 PM

He is such a hack his music doesnt outweigh the BS politics of the whole generation of "folkies" most of whom are nothing but a bunch of pacifistic liberal cloueless........


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 08:40 PM

I had just written to a friend about the concert when I found the review and article in the Canadian paper. Wish I had been there---sounds fantastic. Only re-union I ever missed.

I only hope the film is released soon in the U S. Will rank, I am sure, right up there with Wasn't That A Time---and, sadly, the final documentary on this---perhaps not.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 01:14 AM

Thanks to you all for posting these details of what went on. I just about feel like I was there with you.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Cretinous Yahoo
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 07:30 AM

Guest, music lover...and MG, save your breath for your blow up dates.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: black walnut
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 08:29 AM

JeffM sat right behind PeteS at the movie Friday night. We wonder if JeffM will ever descend from his cloud of joy and write something on this thread?

~b.w.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: kendall
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 08:41 AM

Pete Seeger is an angel on earth.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Peter T.
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 10:07 AM

Still buzzing! I forgot to mention a few things, not the least of which was Ronnie telling all the Americans in the audience that they had a little more than a month before they too could change the world!!
There was a particularly nice moment in the film when Harold talks about how Pete Seeger represented for many people around the world the real America -- love of liberty, equality, hope for the downtrodden of the world. Got a big round of applause.

Ronnie also mentioned a 94 year old woman running for Congress (is that right?) in New Hampshire!

I figure the Weavers should go on tour with the movie. I mean, just because the movement has used them up a million times, and they have earned their rest a million times, why not one more squeeze from the selfish so and sos like me, their fans? Their open heartedness is such a difference from the truly dinosauric, crabbed, cramped, hopeless, selfish dark grimness of which there is much evidence abroad (and some in the thread above)

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: curmudgeon
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 11:01 AM

Doris "Granny D" Haddock is running for U. S. Senate here in NH. She made the news a few years back when she walked across the country agitating for campaign finance reform. She is a charming and very feisty lady who speaks clearly yet eloquently, to the issues.

Jeri, Bat Goddess and I had the pleasure and honor of meeting her last month when we performed for the Strafford County Democratic Picnic.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 11:15 AM

[Thread creep alert]
Peter, it's Doris Granny D Haddock, and she's running for U.S. Senate. Her web page is here. Go read it, I think you'll find her fascinating. She just recently legally changed her name to have 'Granny D' added, because that's how people know her.

I'd heard about her and didn't take her very seriously. BIG mistake. I met her early last month and heard her speak. She's a Force With Which to be Reckoned in a teeny little 94 year-old body surmounted by a funny hat. (I had the honor of being gently poked in the eye with that feather while posing for a photo.) Read her speeches - some of the best I've ever read.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: black walnut
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 12:18 PM

On Saturday morning they said that there would be a tour, Peter. They said that the Weavers had felt so positive about the concert and the response that they were talking about doing some more concerts with the movie.

Not official, but that's what they said on Saturday.

~b.w.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 01:04 PM

Guest Cretenous Yahoo.

Guest Music Lover, speaking for whomever that is, and I will not save our breath for anything but to tell how we really feel about something.

So deal with it.

This is not your exclusive thread.   None are.

I love music. Politics in folk music's greatest enemy.   It's what unfortunately has been killing the genre.

Don't you get it? No one cares much anymore. Enjoy music for it's melodies, harmonies, poetic lyrics, and universal language.

Screw politics in music.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 02:05 PM

MG,MG,MG! There! Happy?

My first memories of hearing Pete Seeger was at a Bowdoin College concert in Maine back in the 1950's that my parents dragged me to. I was amazed that he got so many people singing along with him, and some of the songs weren't even in English!

When I got to college, years later, I had my own Folkways collection of Seeger albums and was delighted to find a few other folks there who wanted to learn how to sing and play the tunes. We had a great time riding the wave of the early 1960's folk scare. Somewhere along the way I also bought the "Goofing Off Suite" which opened my ears to what a range of things could be done with the banjo. I still play "Meadowlands" but have resisted converting it into a sea shanty!

I once sat down with Seeger at a People Music gathering, asking his advice about getting my collection of tenant and neighborhood organizing songs published. He didn't think it would be an easy job and he was certainly correct but he encouraged me to keep at it.

Pete's legacy is certainly long and inspiring, and it's not over yet, and I doubt if it will be over a hundred years from now. As long as someone is still singing his songs and creating new ones in the same wonderful spirit, his legacy will continue.

Yours in struggle,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 02:16 PM

Oh Martin, you're at it again.

Politics in folksong....not for you, okay.

For Woody Guthrie, Ewan MacColl, Billy Bragg......pretty much meat and drink.

What guest said to you wasn't nice, but he gave name to that sort of comment himself. Like you said shun it. Don't blame Pete Seeger and upset his friends


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 03:11 PM

Considering that an anonymous Guest spoke out, I'm afraid that's the breaks.

I don't blame Pete Seeger for anything.

But I've never bought his records, either. It doesn't mean that I haven't heard them.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Peter T.
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 03:26 PM

That would be so great if they would. 4 songs was hardly enough, we would have stayed there for a couple of hours -- revival meeting!! Maybe we will be able finally to thank George W. for something -- getting the Weavers so pissed off they went back to playing.

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: lucky_p
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 06:31 PM

MG,

Don't agree with you. Folk music is not being killed by politics. On the contrary folk music (such as "Freiheit" and "De Gedanken Sind Frei," "Wimoweh," "Follow the Drinking Gourd," "Yankee Doodle Dandy," "Shule Roon," "Union Maid," "We Shall Overcome," "This Land is Your Land," "Zog Nit Keinmal") as well as pieces from other musical genres (the 1812 Overture, the Polonaise) have historically been infused by and have infused politics. The reason is that it not only the facts that influence people, but it's the spirit that gets them off their collective butts, gives them courage, gives them hope, clarifies and distills a range of feelings. And folk music particularly -- with lyrics and music -- galvanizes that spirit. Always has. Still does. Always will.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 07:45 PM

And "Which Side Are You On" sums it all up.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 08:31 PM

It doesn't sum up anything.

Popular country music far outshadows folk music today as the political voice of the masses.

The songs you mentioned lucky P are from a different era.

Many people, myself included have no need for politics in folk music. I would rather just be entertained by it or to entertain an audience.

I can't stand watching folk performers trying to shove their ideologies down everyone's throats just because they have the stage.

Shut up and sing.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Suffet
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 08:34 PM

For what it's worth, Pete Seeger is already booked to appear in two concerts for the People's Music Network in New York next January. The first will be Friday night, January 28, 2005, at the Brooklyn High School for the Arts in Downtown Brooklyn. The other will be a children's concert on Saturday morning, January 29, 2005, at the Renaissance Charter School in Jackson Heights, Queens. Pete will be accompanied at the RSC by members of MacDougal Street Rent Party.

The Brooklyn concert will feature a number of choral groups, including the Brooklyn Women's Chorus, Harmonic Insurgence, and the Disabled In Action Singers. It wil be open to the general public. For ticket information, please call Bev Grant at (718) 230-4999, or e-mail her at:

bevgrant1@aol.com

The Jackson Heights concert will be restricted to Renaissance Charter School students and to children of people attending the PMN Winter Gathering. More information will eventually be available on the PMN website:

http://www.peoplesmusic.org/

--- Steve


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,God
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 08:45 PM

Don't waste your time arguing with an idiot. (My fault. I made him that way. Came out of a bad batch. Mutter mutter mutter.)


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: lucky_p
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 08:48 PM

Martin:

It depends how you understand the role of Politics and folk musicians' relationship to it. Regarding folk music and modern era, I am sure we both know of legions of folk musicians (singer songwriters) and non folk musicians who wrote pieces as a way of "coming to terms" with 9/11 (of course, you can't ever come to terms with 9/11, but nonetheless attempts were made...); most notably, Judy Collins and Springsteen. Robin Greenstein wrote a great piece, Christine Lavin also wrote one -- many others, too. These were not attempts to shove their political agendas down listeners' throats. The songs are, however, musical responses to a political event, responses to deal with an unspeakable tragedy which, as I said in my earlier post, is a role that folk music (and other musical genres and other forms of art), has always played, to wit: clarifying and distilling feelings. The facts about what happened are one thing, but the feelings of enormous sorrow, shock, mourning, fear, courage. Not to mention Judy Collins' use of "Amazing Grace" as an attempt to bind up the nation's wounds. I rest my case.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 08:49 PM

Therein lies the problem with Guests---run to another computer and be clever---right ----god?

I may not agree with Martin on many issues and may not like many of his responses but, hopefully, I answer them in an intelligent way.

Sadly the debating form is being prostituted by "zzzholes"
as yourself.

You know who I am so ---no signature


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 09:22 PM

Alan Jackson wrote a good one also lucky p.

But it all depends how you look at it. 9/11 was in my opinion was by far a human nightmare as opposed to a political event. I have no problem with that at all. Music should reflect different emnotions of human spirit. I just don't see songs about 9/11 being a rant about a political agenda.

It was much more of a political event to Al Quada I would think.

My case rests, also.

Bill H., thanks for saying what I've been saying for a while. I may not be perfect, but I really do believe I make Guests like that moron look the schmucks they are.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: RichM
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 09:25 PM

Actually, Guest God is right; Martin speaks through his zzzhole.

An unfortunate plumbing anomaly, but don't blame yourself, G!
Most of your creations work fine.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 10:53 PM

What's this "shoving their ideologies down people's throats"?

This form of music is seldom or never inflicted on the unwilling. It is perhaps "preaching to the choir", or "consciousness raising" among those likely to be receptive. If one goes to a P. Seeger concert, he's presenting his position to those who have CHOSEN to be there and receive it. You, MG, are not likely to just wander into his concert, thinking it's a circus or something, and get Pete's ideology "shoved down your throat". If you're there, it's because you wanted to be there. Those who dislike his choice of repertoire should and do avoid exposure.

And if a political song of Pete's happens to get played on a radio show you're listening to for other reasons, there's several scenarios:
1. You turn the radio down or off or to another station.
2. You go get a cup of coffee or a beer.
3. You wait (impatiently, I suppose) while it plays. If you do that, it's clearly not offending you enough to do 1 or 2, so it can't be too bad, can it? In any case, it's not going to change your ideological outlook. Nothing is "shoved down your throat".

If his presentation of his ideology bothers you so much, even though you're not required to listen or to like it or agree with it, then I tend to think you have a lack of confidence in the validity and solidity of your own position.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Mike Regenstreif
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 11:50 PM

The world premiere of "Isn't This A Time," followed by a
short performance by The Weavers (Pete Seeger, Ronnie Gilbert, Fred
Hellerman and Erik Darling with Eric Weisberg)was a very special,
awe-inspiring night.

The film is a documentary about the tribute concert, held in November
2003, in honour of Harold Leventhal at Carnegie Hall. The featured artists included Arlo Guthrie, Pete Seeger, Leon Bibb, Theo Bikel, Peter, Paul & Mary, Tao Rodriguez Seeger, Sarah Lee Guthrie & Johnny Irion, and The Weavers. Jim Brown, who directed "Wasn't That A Time," about the Weavers' 1980 reunion, did a spectacular job of capturing the concert and a lot of wonderful off-stage moments. And more than just a concert film, it also tells the story of Harold Levanthal's lifetime involvement in folk music and how he defied and masterminded the end of the McCarthy-era blacklist. This is a film not to be missed by anyone who loves folk music.

After the screening, Harold was introduced, said a few words and received a richly deserved standing ovation.

Then the Weavers came out and sang "When the Saints Go Marching In,"
"Music In My Mother's House" and "Wimoweh." Although I've seen Pete
perform on dozens and dozens of occasions, and Ronnie on several, this was the first time I've ever had the opportunity to experience the Weavers, as a group, in person. They were inspired and inspiring. After a standing ovation, they returned to the stage and led us in singing "Goodnight Irene." I can now say that I've sung "Goodnight Irene" with The Weavers.

At the party later on, I was chatting with Pete Seeger, and telling him how much it meant to me to have been there that night, when Roger Ebert walked over and said the same thing to Pete.

Nora Guthrie introduced me to Harold Leventhal, who I was able to thank for being a great role model for those of us non-performers involved in folk music, and to Fred Hellerman, who I'd never met before, but whose music has inspired me since childhood.

It was one of those events that remind us why we do what we do, and why what we do is so important, particularly in these times.

Mike Regenstreif


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 05:17 AM

Martin, do you know the work of Ralph mcTell at all?

He's one of England's best picker/singer/songwriters - in my book the best. Some of his work is very political. In the Thatcher years we lived through 'which side are you on' sort of times.

Try to imagine the cannon of Irish music without the beautiful rebel songs.

Something has got you worked up - Ithink you need to be more specific for us to understand your point.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 09:40 AM

Let me be devils advocate for a moment. While I disagree with Martin about political music, I am rather surprised at the outrage being thrown at him because he doesn't like Pete Seeger. Is it not a bit hypocritical? I think one of the lessons I've learned from Pete is that we create our own music and choose to learn from diverse cultures and thought. Martin expresses a different point of view about folk music, and some people get their back up against the wall. To turn Uncle Dave O's point around, it seems like some of us have become defensive because of a lack of confidence in our position.

What Martin referred to early on was the divergence in schools of thought on folk music.   Read Ronald Cohen's brilliant book about the folk revival. He shows how the folk revival grew in the 20th century, and he points out how leftist politics grabbed hold of ONE aspect of folk music and built an audience. We tend to think of people like Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie and all the great writers who have carried on that legacy, but we tend to overlook the conservative movement that also made the folk revival possible. Staunch conservatives like John Jacob Niles and John Lomax shunned the politics of the music in favor of capturing a snapshot of the culture that created it.   You can argue that politics played an important role in development of a culture, but that was not their focus. They were responsible for mining a different aspect of our heritage, and while we can also argue that they censored their own work, I think the same can be said for the left. I think that is apparent when we see so many people knocking Martin because he has another view of Pete Seeger's music.

Because most of us grew up in the folk revival generation - safe to say from the late 40's through the 60's (and maybe later).   Folk music during that period had a strong connection with the left. That connection is very important to me. As someone above said, some of it is preaching to the choir, but I think that is extremely important. Those who sang "We Shall Overcome" during marches during the civil rights movement gained strength from the words.

I urge everyone to read Ron Cohen's book - Rainbow Race. He describes it more eloquently than I can, but it really helps give perspective on the music we love and perhaps will give some people an understanding of where Martin is coming from.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 10:48 AM

Ron Olesko said, in part:

"While I disagree with Martin about political music, I am rather surprised at the outrage being thrown at him because he doesn't like Pete Seeger. Is it not a bit hypocritical?"
* * *
"I think that is apparent when we see so many people knocking Martin because he has another view of Pete Seeger's music."


I disagree with the premise of these two excerpts, Ron. I think the "outrage" has to do not with MG's disliking Pete Seeger or his work, but with the often offensive, emotional tone with which he expresses it. MG has made a number of worthwhile contributions in various threads, but he seems to go out of his way to be objectionable sometimes, and that sort of thing feeds on itself, just cries for a hostile reply. And of course that gets MG's back up, and he intensifies things, and away we go!

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 11:02 AM

Dave, you proved my point.   People are reacting to Martin's tone and acting in the same manner that they found offensive. Because you disagree with a perceived offensive tone, you react the same way. That IS hypocritical.   The hostile replies, as you say, intensify things and the whole message is lost.   

Belief in ones convictions should allow for a dignified response that does not sink to the level that you object to.

I'm not pointing the finger directly at you Dave since your post was not angry in tone, but if you read many of the posts online you see the connections.   People complain that Mudcat has evolved to mudslinging, and they do not realize that they are part of the problem.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: lucky_p
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 11:14 AM

Agree with Ron Olesko -- the book, to which he is referring, is entitled, Rainbow Quest (unless Ron, there is another book of which I am not familiar?)

Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 11:44 AM

My error in the title - thanks for the correction Lucky! The book is indeed Rainbow Quest.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 12:44 PM

As a zillion people have said before on this site, folk music is political, as is country music, as is any kind of music -- the form, its roots, its tone, its subject matter are drenched in politics. Deciding that music should shut up and just entertain us is a political position -- you want a dream anaesthetized entertainment space. This is what I call "gated music".

Why has no one put Pete's TV programmes on DVD?

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 01:48 PM

If Pete were not political, he wouldn't have had the influence in the idea of folk music that many have. You can't separate an artist from his/her politics. Even a banal empty commercial offering on TV of the inane musical nature is a political statement that says "don't bother me with anything significant, I belong to the corporate establishment that makes me say what they want you to hear."

That's how the music business works. Don't rock the boat if you want airplay which is a political statement in itself.

Many traditional folk songs contain objectionable material about black people, foreigners, abuse of women, or some are just plain dirty songs (a form of folk music.) Some laud the violent exploits of Kings and some reflect other views than ones advocated by the left-wing. Just because it's trad doesn't make it redeeming or particularly deserving of praise in my view.
Traditional folk music is neutral in that it can be doggerel, offensive or wonderful. It's not all great art, however. Even some songs advocating political policy are trite pamphlets rather than insightful reporting. All of them are a comment on the times in which they were created.

But human beings are political animals otherwise they wouldn't survive.

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 04:26 PM

Ron:

I think we are talking past each other.

My response was to your own language, to wit:

"because he doesn't like Pete Seeger. Is it not a bit hypocritical?"
   and
"when we see so many people knocking Martin because he has another view of Pete Seeger's music."

My point is that most of the hostile reaction to MG is not "because he doesn't like Pete Seeger" or "because he has another view of Pete Seeger's music."

While an angry or impolite response to an offensively phrased (as opposed to unpopular content) post is not pretty or to be desired, I don't think that "hypocritical" is an accurate characterization.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 04:48 PM

Dave, deal with this:

Pete Seeger is way down there in my folk music favorites.

Why? because of the continuous political overtones that overshadows what could be just good music. Yes, I tune that type of folk music out. No, I do not want to go to any concerts of his.

Now,is that hostile? Hardly. Ron Olesko has explained to you quite clearly on the two schools of folk music and I thank him for his support.

weelittledrummer, no I am not familiar with the work of Ralph Mctell. Thanks anyhow, as English folk music is something I am not the least bit interested in let alone political English folk music.

RicjM, take a look at how much that you have contributed to this thread's discussion and you will realize that you only agreed with someone who can best be classified as a moron.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 04:55 PM

You are right, we may be talking past each other.   

Again, my comments were not directed at you Dave. Some of the comments I've read here and in other threads do seem to take umbrage at Martin as a person. I do think that is hypocritical to react that way. No, you do not have to accept his statements and I'm not defending what he has said in other threads. Pete sings of love and understanding. We do not have to accept offensive statements from others, but we should not react in kind.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: lucky_p
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 05:13 PM

Martin,

I don't understand what you gain by snapping at people -- I find it offensive -- not what you say, but how you say it. When you say, "I'm not the least bit interested in English folk music," that is certainly okay. But not the way you say it. You say it in a way that snaps at people, and I don't understand why. If you don't like English folk music, why can't you say, "I appreciate your input about Ralph McTell -- I've never heard him, and I'm probably not going to seek him out. But thanks for the info."

These are two different ways of saying, "I'm not interested." Your way is hostile -- it's honest -- but it's hostile. My way is just as honest, but it's diplomatic and kind.

I'm wondering, how do you think it serves you to be at best, brutally honest, and not diplomatic and kind?


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 05:22 PM

Martin - I do think you are missing out by not listening to English folk music, but that is your choice. Ralph McTell is a brilliant musician. It is funny, I don't really think of him as a political musician, although I am reminded of that aspect of his work through weelittledrummer's post.   I guess each of us take what we want from folk music. Frank Hamilton's post was wonderful. Politics and art do mix, and we would not have the canon of traditional music without politics.

Again, to each their own. I admire Martin for being "brutally honest". It is his choice to listen to whatever he desires. For me, I welcome the opportunity to be exposed to new ideas and souncs, and THAT is what folk music and Pete Seeger represent to me.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: PoppaGator
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 05:35 PM

Politics aside, what has always been most remarkable about Pete Seeger is (as others have noted above) how well he could "play the audience" -- engage everyone, get 'em to sing along, etc.

Of course, that concern for other humans is probably just what his political convictions were and are all about.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 05:57 PM

Lucky p, You've never been to Chicago have you?

I'll make you a deal. I'll go listen to Ralph if you listen to some hot stuff by Buck Owens.

Ron, I am so excited by American music, that the English folk stuff just kind of puts me off to sleep.

I really can't relate to it.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 06:11 PM

Martin, I must add a comment to the note about "....the English stuff puts me off....".   
         One can be excited---or enthused----about something and yet respect and understand other material. I can speak there only for myself. My --to use your word--excitement runs along certain lines (Pete S. being one of many artists in that genre---and some newer ones too). That said, I do open my ears to other things and respect them since, I feel, many things are intertwined with each other. So---not excited, perhaps, by English music I can still respect it for any number of reasons. Most having to do with history, interrelativity (is that a word?) and seeing what other might like.


There is a great song in a Gilbert & Sullivan Opera where the character sings a song bemoaning the fact that everyone thinks him such a disagreeable person when he has so many aesthetic interests and tries to instill them upon society----"....Everyone thinks I am such a disagreeable man----And I Can't Think Why..."

Strange thing though---we all are looking back as it relates to today. I am guilty of not liking the newer generation of music----Rap/Hip Hop/R&R ---can never be on Jeopardy since I have never heard of 90% of these groups---and I am amazed at some of the contestants that are both young and older that are versed in them. It only proves that we all live on this planet but in so many different worlds.

Sorry for the philosophy part of the lecture.


Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 06:49 PM

Martin Gibson said, in part:

Dave, deal with this:

Pete Seeger is way down there in my folk music favorites.

Why? because of the continuous political overtones that overshadows what could be just good music. Yes, I tune that type of folk music out. No, I do not want to go to any concerts of his.


Fine. Quite understandable. And, put that way, in those tones, I have no quarrel with your statement. Nor do I think others here would take umbrage either.

I'll even go a little further, Martin: I generally prefer Pete Seeger's music when he's doing traditional stuff, and feel that sometimes he goes too far ideologically for my taste. A case in point: "Oh, Had I a Golden Thread" (maybe not the exact title) is, to my ears and general sensibilities, a piece of--well, I won't use the C word, and maybe I shouldn't say "junk", but I just don't think it's good songwriting. To paraphrase the Bible, I think Pete Seeger in this instance sold his birthright for a pot of message. But I know some people like this song, and he certainly has the right to write or perform whatever moves him, and it's usually excellent in my book. I will just try to avoid listening to that particular song.

I sure wish I could establish for myself the continuous high standard of musical taste and performance that Pete Seeger has done over the years. And when I come to shuffle off this mortal coil I'd love to think (as I don't by a long shot) that as many people looked up to me as a prime example of what a gracious, ethical human being should be, as what Pete Seeger has earned by his life.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 07:01 PM

Martin - a few weeks ago I had a guest on my program who told me about a wonderful game he and a friend used to play. One person would start singing an English or Irish song, and the other person would sing the American counterpart.    It could go on for hours.

When I really started to study folk music, I was intrigued by the connectivity between American and British Isle folk music.   I don't think country music would exist today if it weren't for the Scotch-Irish connection, and both owe a lot to the English tradition.

Understand your point though, it isn't everyones cup of tea.   Bill H knows my feeling about Gilbert & Sullivan. I would rather have root canal without novacaine then listen to one of their operas. I do respect what they have done, but it isn't my cup of tea. When I was a production assistant at the original CBS Cable, one of my jobs was supervising edit sessions on five Gilbert & Sullivan operas. The productions were horrible! It tainted me.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 07:12 PM

Oh for Pete's sake harmonize, if not keep quiet and enjoy the music!


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 07:53 PM

Thread drift here---Ron---my G & S mention was merely to make the point that you cannot denigrate other types of music (writing, etc;) and then wonder why people think you are disagreeable. One has to respect all things. Even G&S---who's political (well Gilbert anyway) comments are still valid and who's insights into the human condition are wonderful----and done in a most humorous (love the British spelling of that) way.

Now---If you give me your attention I shall tell you what I am---a genuine philanthropist---all other kinds are sham.   


Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 08:02 PM

An addendum so as not to be misunderstood.

My point exactly---respect the music but do not like it---as you said, Ron.   But, gee, dental work without novacaine. I don't know if I would do that---even when I respect something.   

Thankfully my dentist does not have English folk music piped into the procedure room---yet, even if it were, I would still opt for the novocaine.


Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 08:09 PM

I'll make you a deal. I'll go listen to Ralph if you listen to some hot stuff by Buck Owens - Martin Gibson 20 Sep 04 - 05:57 PM

Like 'Dust On My Mother's Bible', for example

Jews dig that kind of thing?


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 08:17 PM

Martin---what is that about? Sounds like the discussion is moving off the higher plane and back to the place where one has to step up to reach the sidewalk.

Bill H


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 08:40 PM

Let the Guest post two above this 20 Sep 04 08:09 stay as a prime example of the anti-semetism that can be found on Mudcat.

It doesn't really offend me. Being Jewish, you learn to live with and ignore the bigots and goons like this. You lower the music threads into the realm of whale shit, Guest.

You know what Guest, I dig Buck Owens music no matter what. But I wouldn't listen to English folk music. I'm not too fond of British comedy, either. Respecting all of it would be too big of a generalization. I would prefer to be selective in what I respect and not just give everything I don't like a blanket nod of respect.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 08:51 PM

Martin---The GUEST has a real problem. We cannot, however, sink to that level. A discussion of any topic in proper terms is always valid.

Recently I---and I am Jewish--non practicing (for honesty and disclaimer)(by the way how does one practice---like a piano lesson?)(another thread for humor I guess---I could do a riff on that). Back to the first sentence---Recently I---and I am Jewish---had a complaint from a listener to my program (I co-host a show with Ron Olesko) that I play too much Gospel and he does not want proselytization.   He still does not get it. It is Folk---it is historical. We all have to have open minds and hearts.

As to Guest---what can one say to the masked man---perhaps this---"Intelligent people are open to all things---musical and otherwise. Bigots are those with closed minds that will end up in their own obsessions creating their own hell." Hopefully---it comes sooner than later.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: lucky_p
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 08:57 PM

I am a Jewish athiest and a daughter of holocaust survivors, and I am deeply offended. But I do believe I would be equally if not more offended if I were Gentile, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim or Pantheist.

If you have no respect for others, you obviously have no respect for yourself.

And love is what keeps it all going.

That's all.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 09:45 PM

It might be that we have different definitions of "respect". To me "respect" means understanding, not "liking".


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 09:51 PM

Is saying the word 'Jew', being anti-semetic now?

Too much paranoia in this world, if you ask me.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Peace
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 10:03 PM

Guest, nobody asked you.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: EBarnacle
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 08:38 AM

Re: Bill's las post.
As a Conservative, tending toward Reform, Jew, I have had more than a few discussions about whether Pete is anti-semitic. As stated above, no he is not.

There has to be an openness to new experiences. Last weekend, I was invited to a comedy club. The people on stage were breaking up most of the audience. A lot of it was potty humor, meant to shock rather than actually amuse. I didn't get it. I was not particularly amused. I was there, however, to be exposed.

The same applies to folk music. The purists insist that there is no folk music less than 100 years old. Does "Fiddler's Green" count? Even though the author is well known, it is often presented as trad.

Others insist that folk music includes current material, often political and that old, beautiful or emotive stuff is passe. There has to a willingness to compromise and listen to both sides of the issue.

How did we devolve into this angry discussion from the announcement of Pete's impending retirement?


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Peter T.
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 09:10 AM

Like many another thread, this one suffers from moral entropy. yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 09:13 AM

This website has gone to the dogs


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 02:00 PM

Allow me to lift my leg on you, Guest.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 02:58 PM

Ron, please use anything I say freely and I am honored for the compliment.

I believe that one of the best Pete Seeger albums ever is the Folkways Records "Darling Corey". It shows his artistry as a musician, interpreter and accompanist for a beautiful selection of ballads and folk songs. I wish that someone would do a CD of this. It's a classic.

Frank Hamilton


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Alonzo M. Zilch (inactive)
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 03:20 PM

Frank,

"Darling Corey" was combined with "The Goofing Off Suite" and reissued as a Smithsonian Folkways CD in 1993.


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 03:34 PM

I second Frank's comment about the Folkways Darling Corey record. In 1952, the first time I walked into Seattle's "Campus Music and Gallery" (where I had been many times before buying classical, opera, etc.) with the intention of specifically blowing the budget on some folk music records, mainly with the idea of getting records I could learn some songs from, I walked out with a Burl Ives, a Richard Dyer-Bennet, a Susan Reed, a Josh White, and Darling Corey. How's that for a mix?

I now have about three and a half feet of shelf space devoted to vinyl folk records. And a multitude of CDs. All kinds. Lots of Pete.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Suffet
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 09:30 PM

Pete Seeger's 10 inch Darling Corey LP ranks among the absolute best recordings ever of traditional American folk music! I played it until it wore out. Then I bought another one and play it, too, until it wore our. Then I bought the CD. I have been listening to that album for close to half a century now, and I never tire of it.

--- Steve


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Suffet
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 07:53 PM

PEOPLE'S MUSIC NETWORK
for Songs of Freedom and Freedom

presents...

THE MANY VOICES CONCERT
Friday • January 28, 2005 • 7:30 to 10:30 PM
Brooklyn High School for the Arts
345 Dean Street, between 3rd and 4th Avenues
Brooklyn, New York


Featuring...
Pete Seeger
Brooklyn Women's Chorus
Disabled In Action Singers
Lafayette Inspirational Ensemble
Harmonic Insurgence
Brooklyn High School for the Arts Chorus
PMN Chorus


Cosponsored by...
Brooklyn High School for the Arts
Renaissance Charter School
Brooklyn Women's Chorus
Peoples' Voice Cafe
New York Pinewoods Folk Music Club


Tickets...
$15 for members of PMN or cosponsors if purchased in advance. All others, and at the door, $20.

For ticket information and sales, please contact...
Bev Grant.
Phone: 718-230-4999
E-mail: bevgrant1@aol.com

Directions:

• B65 bus to 4th Avenue stops in front of the school eastbound or one block north of the school westbound.

• Subway to the Atlantic Avenue - Pacific Street station. Walk south along 4th Avenue to Dean Street. That will be anywhere from half a block to two blocks depending on what station exit you use. Turn right. School will be on your right.

• Long Island Rail Road to Flatbush Avenue terminal in Brooklyn. Cross Atlantic Avenue, then walk south along 4th Avenue two blocks to Dean Street. Turn right. School will be on your right.

• Driving: I-278 (BQE) to Atlantic Avenue exit. Go east (away from waterfront) along Atlantic Avenue to 3rd Avenue. Turn right. Go two short blocks to Dean Street. Turn left and look for parking. School will be on your left.

PMN website: http://www,peoplesmusic.org/

Be there!

--- Steve


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Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Peter T.
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 06:27 PM

did anyone see this concert finally?

yours,

Peter T.


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