ABC to standard notation

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Stewart
Date: 02 Jun 18 - 01:27 PM

One other neat thing that EasyABC does (for those who use Noteworthy Composer) is convert a NWC score into ABC. The only hitch is that you have to convert the NWC file to the earlier 1.75 nwc file version - in NWC: File, Export... , Save as type noteworthy composer 1.75 file. Then in Easy ABC: File, Import and add... and voila, you get the ABC. It's an easy way to get my NWC score into ABC to add a tune in TheSession.org.

And I find EasyABC the easiest way to convert an ABC file into a score. and even play it.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Greenie
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 01:47 AM

Jack,

I have never had the need to do that. If I were presented with a piece of music with such a key signature I would just use accidentals.

Can you post an ABC of such a tune? I'd be interested to see the results.

I don't write anything in ABC, I just use EasyABC to access those files that are, which I believe was the point of the thread?

EasyABC produces adequate scores but sometimes I want to add accompaniments and that's when I use Sibelius.

I have Sibelius 7. I can't afford an upgrade and I am not claiming it is perfect (I doubt that ABC is either), but I do find it a very useful tool. I'm sure the people at Avid will find a way around unusual key signatures; if they haven't already.

Greenie

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 08:46 AM

Do you really need that level of sophistication for the music you want to write down?quote jack campin
yes, which is why we have proper musical clef notation ,it is not perfect but it is more accurate than abc

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 09:58 AM

Do you really need that level of sophistication for the music you want to write down?
yes

Give an example. I don't believe you.

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Jun 18 - 03:26 AM

Music clef is more accurate than abc,if it were the other way round classical orchestras would be using ABC, they do not they use standard music clef notation.
if poeple cannot bebothered to learn music notation ,that is their decision,but do not try and pretend that ABC it is as accurate.
Personaly i think learning by ear is the best method ,but i am glad that i can read music to remind myself of tunes that have been forgoitten from repertoire.

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Jun 18 - 04:23 AM

You're waffling. Describe a situation when you, personally, have wanted to notate something that ABC's ways of doing rhythm can't handle.

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 04 Jun 18 - 09:49 AM

We've been through this before Dick, oh so many years ago, BBC Radio 4 features abc

Mick

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Jun 18 - 11:29 AM

[nonstandard key signatures]
Can you post an ABC of such a tune?

You'll know this one. There is one accidental (a lowered seventh) otherwise it's all in the hijazkar scale - like major, but with a flattened second and sixth. Copy it into the converter at mandolintab.net and you'll get it typeset the usual way a Greek musician would do it. (There is a leading-spaces problem - not sure why, probably something do with the Windows computer I'm using. Just delete the leading spaces in the header lines after pasting into the box).

With a short tune like this, it doesn't make a big difference. With something on a larger scale, like a piece of Turkish art music three pages long with modulations into four different makams, it's horrendously difficult to figure out what's going on if you don't use the right key signatures.

X:1
T:Misirlou
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:Dphr ^F^C
  D3 E F2G2|A3 B  c2B2|A8-|A8  :|
|:BA2B A2G2|AG2A  G2F2|F8-|F8   |\
  AG2A G2F2|FE2F  E2D2|D8-|D8  :|
|:G8-      |G6      FG|A8-|A6 GA|\
  B6     AB|c6      Bc|d8-|d8   |
  ed2e d2c2|dc2d =c2B2|A8-|A8   |\
  cB2c B2A2|AG2A  F2E2|D8-|D8  :|
  B6     AB|c6      Bc|d8-|d8  |]

Here's another one, a tune for the Romanian five-hole whistle. Its native scale is the Dorian mode with a sharpened fourth. The D sharps are not accidentals, they're obligatory - the instrument couldn't play a D natural if you tried (I've got one and I have tried). Putting them in the key signature means you can forget about them, much as music for the Highland pipes usually leaves the signature out entirely.

X:2
T:Hora ca la caval (on A)
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:ADor^d
|:ABcd   ede2|cAc2 Md3c|ed e2 cAc2|  Md3 c e2z2 |
  ABcd   ede2|cAc2 Md3c|ed e2 cdec|   Aece A2z2:|
|:efgf   aggf|feed Md3c|ec e2 cAc2|  Md3 c e2z2 |
  a2 Ma4   g2|fefe Md3c|ec e2 cdec|[1 Aece A2ze:|\
                                   [2 A4   A2z2||
|:Me2 d2 e2e2|cAc2 Md3c|e2 e2 cAc2|  Md3c  e2z2 |
  Me2 d2 e2e2|cAc2 Md3c|e2Me2 cdec|   A4   z4  :|

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Jun 18 - 11:36 AM

And here's another example of something I mentioned above, something you can do with the ABC "part" construct which other typesetting systems don't allow for. This tune is 32 bars long but only 8 of them are different. If you analyse it and represent it in a non-linear notation describing exactly how the repeats work, you can reduce the amount of notation drastically and aid memorization. With a player program, this sounds exactly the same as an explicitly written-out version. Try generating a MIDI using a converter site to hear it.

X:3
T:Polska from H\"alleforsn\"as (G minor)
M:3/4
L:1/8
P:(AXAY)2(BXBY)2
K:GMin
[P:A] f>e dc dB|BA/B/  cB    AG||\
[P:X] D>G GA Bc|d=e/d/ cd/e/ d2||
[P:B] D2  G2 A2|BA/B/  cB    AG||\
[P:Y] D>G GA BA|FG     G4      ||

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Jun 18 - 11:37 AM

I ALWAYS use music notation.

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Jun 18 - 11:54 AM

I ALWAYS use music notation.

What do you think ABC is?

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Jun 18 - 02:01 PM

a inferior system that is less accurate and is not necessary if people could be bothered to read music,standard notation manuscript is IMO the best system to date of notating music, you are welcome to think differently, but if ABC was better why is it not used more by professional musicians and why would it be necessary to convert ABC to standard notation?

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: meself
Date: 04 Jun 18 - 06:07 PM

"I just use EasyABC to access those files that are, which I believe was the point of the thread?"

No: the matter concerned converting original ABC script to standard notation.

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Jun 18 - 07:31 PM

There used to be converters from ABC to Lilypond, does that still work?

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Stanron
Date: 04 Jun 18 - 08:14 PM

For me the main value of ABC lies in the collections of tunes that can be found in this format on-line.

When I first started to deal with tunes and notation it was with a program called Mozart. This was ABC based but I used it as a standard notation editor and didn't actually write ABC files. I still have a collection of .MZ files and after reading this thread today downloaded the one month free trial of Mozart 14 and spent several hours converting my whole collection of .MZ files to abc. It has to be close to twenty years since I stopped using Mozart and there were some pleasant surprises and re-awakened memories.

When I started teaching at a college the program used was Sibelius. I got quite proficient at Sibelius and, in the process, stopped using Mozart. It's a bit strange by todays standards. For example there's no 'File' menu option. There is an alternative but you have to figure it out. The £99 price tag does not compare well with Musescore and over the last few years I have got as used to Musescore as I was to Sibelius.

Mozart, Sibelius, Musescore and ABC. I can produce scores in all of them but now the only two I need are Musescore and ABC. With ABC I can access the fantastic file resources on-line but I can't do guitar tab. With Musescore I can do a score that combines notation and guitar tab. A guitar composition or arrangement works well with notation on top and tab, with aligned bars, below. I find it easiest to notate a piece first and derive the tab from the notation afterwards. However I usually read from the tab because in the tab all the work in figuring out the fingering has been done.

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Stanron
Date: 04 Jun 18 - 08:26 PM

On this page

http://www.music-notation.info/en/software/abc2ly.html

there is some info on abc2ly which is said to be an abc to Lilypond convertor.

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: GUEST,Greenie
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 01:54 AM

meself:

"No: the matter concerned converting original ABC script to standard notation. "

I use EasyABC to convert original ABC script to standard notation

Is that literal enough for you?

You buggers could start a fight in a convent.

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: GUEST,Greenie
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 01:56 AM

Jack:

Thanks for posting the tunes in ABC.

I am now going to use EasyABC to convert the original ABC script to standard notation.

Best wishes,
Greenie

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 02:56 AM

I don't normally think about conversion as a separate step, since I write ABC using BarFly which has a dynamically updated pane showing the staff notation. I use converter sites to get higher print quality, check compatibility with non-BarFly platforms, and hear what auto-generated chord vamps sound like.

With that last one, make sure that whatever you use to create the staff notation retains the line describing the part playing order. That's the whole point of doing it that way.

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: meself
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 10:41 AM

Greenie: Start a fight? I was talking about converting original ABC; you were talking about accessing files. I have no interest in accessing files. I clarified that. So - that's your idea of 'starting a fight'? Curious.

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Nick
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 01:54 PM

meself

I know very little about abc but the thing I suggested (abcexplorer) seems to do what you want.

I have gone through this thread and copied the abc (from jack and other people) and popped it into ABCExplorer and it comes up with the following

Notation from cut and paste of ABC

At which point I realised that might not have understood the question as I can't see the problem :)

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 05:49 AM

We still haven't seen a sample of Dick's wondrously sophisticated notation, beyond the capabilities of any ABC platform.

Maybe he showed it on Norwegian radio?

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 12:20 PM

Surely by the time you’ve sorted all these out, you could have taught yourself to read real music? It’s really not that difficult for those of us that only play one line of dots at a time, unlike piano players who have to follow two separate lines for left and right hands simultaneously. Unlike abc notation, you can also see how the contour of a tune goes with standard notation, as well as getting a better feel for the rhythm. Just saying....

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 12:28 PM

You don't have a fucking clue, do you?

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Nick
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 01:33 PM

Here's a thing about reading music. And a bit pathetic.

I can read the notes but I can't read time

I have good ears and can pick up a tune - if I need to check notes I haven't got I can read them.

My elder son learnt piano (grade 5 or 6 can't remember). Put a piece of sheet music in front of him and he can sight read it.

I wonder whether it will make me a better musician.

I'm mid 60s now and I'm not sure I can. I feel I should have done this 50 years ago so it would be easy now and trying to work out the incremental positives it would give me.

FEEDBACK WELCOME

I have some friends who are HUGELY better than me who prefer ears and SHOW ME but can read notes if they have to.

Interesting world

Not a lot about ABC which is what it is...

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 01:54 PM

Rhythm is the tricky thing about score reading. It's easiest if you start with tunes in very regular rhythms, like jigs and marches. As you go on you will start to recognize more and more different kinds of rhythmic pattern as they are notated - say, dotted rhythms in hornpipes or strathspeys, syncopated rhythms as in tangos or ragtime.

If you already have a tune in ABC (which you will have with most of the standard British Isles tune repertoire) or transcribe it into ABC yourself, you can run it through a player or sound file converter and get some idea of what unfamiliar rhythms might sound like, as Mo the caller described upthread.

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 02:09 AM

"With ABC I can access the fantastic file resources on-line but I can't do guitar tab"

I’ve no intention of doing so but it would be possible to write an online abc converter that allows a user to enter their own (eg.) guitar tab. Reading through Guido Gonzato’s Guide, the behind the scenes chain would be running abc2xml.py with a -f switch, converting the xml output back to abc using xmltoabc with a -t switch and then sending the abc through abc2svg.

I don’t know what the limitations of this tab are but here here is an example from the guide I’ve played with. This one is 5 string banjo.

Original abc with the tab instructions:

  %%scale 0.65
  X:1
  T:Blue Moon Of Kentucky (banjo)
  C:http://moinejf.free.fr/abcm2ps-doc/banjo.xhtml
  M:4/4
  L:1/4
  V:1 treble-8
  V:2 tab strings=G4,D3,G3,B3,D4 octave=-1
  K:C
  %
  [V:1] z[Bg]   [cg]   [^cg]    |: ^c/[dd]/ g/d/       d/g/       d/d/ |
  [V:2] z[B!5!g][c!5!g][^c!5!g] |: ^c/[dd]/ !5!g/!2!d/ d/!5!g/ !2!d/d/ |
  %
  [V:1]  B/d/ B/d/ A/d/ G/d/ | E/c/ G/d/    g/G/ d/g/    |
  [V:2]  B/d/ B/d/ A/d/ G/d/ | E/c/ G/d/ !5!g/G/ d/!5!g/ |
  %
  [V:1] G/e/    g/G/ e/G/ E/e/ | D/d/    g/G/ d/g/    B/d/ |
  [V:2] G/e/ !5!g/G/ e/G/ E/e/ | D/d/ !5!g/G/ d/!5!g/ B/d/ |
  

abc after going to and from xml:

  %%beginsvg
  <style type="text/css">
  .bf {font-family:sans-serif; font-size:7px}
  </style>
  <defs>
  <rect id="clr" x="-3" y="-1" width="6" height="5" fill="white"></rect>
  <rect id="clr2" x="-3" y="-1" width="11" height="5" fill="white"></rect>
  <g id="kop0" class="bf"><use xlink:href="#clr"></use><text x="-2" y="3">0</text></g>
  <g id="kop1" class="bf"><use xlink:href="#clr"></use><text x="-2" y="3">1</text></g>
  <g id="kop2" class="bf"><use xlink:href="#clr"></use><text x="-2" y="3">2</text></g>
  <g id="kop3" class="bf"><use xlink:href="#clr"></use><text x="-2" y="3">3</text></g>
  </defs>
  %%endsvg
  X:1
  T:Blue Moon Of Kentucky (banjo)
  C:http://moinejf.free.fr/abcm2ps-doc/banjo.xhtml
  %%score 1 2
  L:1/8
  M:4/4
  I:linebreak $
  K:C
  %%map tab2 =A, print=B heads=kop2
  %%map tab2 =B, print=d heads=kop0
  %%map tab2 =C print=d heads=kop1
  %%map tab2 =D print=f heads=kop0
  %%map tab2 =D, print=G heads=kop0
  %%map tab2 =E print=f heads=kop2
  %%map tab2 =E, print=G heads=kop2
  %%map tab2 =G print=E heads=kop0
  %%map tab2 =G, print=B heads=kop0
  %%map tab2 ^C print=d heads=kop2
  %%map tab2 ^^C print=d heads=kop3
  V:1 treble-8 
  V:2 tab stafflines=5 strings=G4,D3,G3,B3,D4 
  %%voicemap tab2
  K:none
  M:none
  %%clef none
  %%staffscale 1.6
  %%flatbeams true
  %%stemdir down
  V:1
   z2 [Bg]2 [cg]2 [^cg]2 |: ^c[dd] gd dg dd | Bd Bd Ad Gd | Ec Gd gG dg | Ge gG eG Ee | Dd gG dg Bd | %6
  V:2
   x2 [=G=B,]2 [=G=C]2 [=G^C]2 |: ^C[=D^^C] =G^^C =D=G ^^C=D | =B,=D =B,=D =A,=D =G,=D | %3
   =E,=C =G,=D =G=G, =D=G | =G,=E =G=G, =E=G, =E,=E | =D,=D =G=G, =D=G =B,=D | %6
  

This should convert here

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Stanron
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 03:04 AM

After deleting the double spaces at the start of each line I can see the score but, apart from the C:http line there is no tablature.

I can do text tab using Unicode characters that looks like this;

[code]
E+-----------------------------------------------------------+R
B¦---+-----3-------+-1-----------+-------------+-------------¦E
G¦---+-0-----4h2p0-+-----2-----2-+-4p2-0-------+-------0-----¦P
D¦-0-+-------------+-------4h5---+-0-----2h4-2-+-0h2-4-----0-¦E
A¦---+-------2-----+-3-----0-----+-------3-----+-------------¦A
E+-----3-----------------------------------------2-----3-----+T

. + . 1 + + 2 + + . 1 + + 2 + + . 1 + + 2 + + . 1 + + 2 + +
[/code]

but this is eight lines of text to one line of notation. Even if ABC can display it the files would be tedious to generate.

Is there some way ABC can read and display these text characters?

(sorry, I've forgotten how to get mono spaced text on here)

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Stanron
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 03:09 AM

Sorry about the tab in the previous post. It looks nothing like it did in the post preview, but you can see that there are eight lines of text.

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 10:27 AM

Sorry about the extra characters. I'd not tried a copy/paste from my previous post before but have since found it does convert with tab for me when all the extra spaces are removed.

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 10:53 AM

Shortly before he was killed, Laurie Griffiths was developing an ABC to tab generator (incorporated in his ABC programme Muse) that used artificial intelligence techniques to create optimal tab for any piece of ABC input - he said you might find that if you changed something at the end of the tune the changes could propagate all the way back to the start, he was optimizing on a large scale.

Laurie was good as all of guitarist, mathematician and programmer. Whatever he was working on would have been amazing, and he was only days away from releasing it when that shit in the Maserati drove onto the pavement and ran him down. But as far as I know all his work on that version of Muse was lost.

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 11:20 AM

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 11:24 AM

How did that happen? I was just reading and had no intention of posting. I was nowhere near the submit button - honest!

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Stanron
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 12:05 PM

When Sibelius and Musescore convert notation to tab every note is presented in the lowest possible position. This can produce tab which is impossible to play. It is then up to whoever is producing the score to decide which notes are played at which fret on which string, and reset the tab to match. If I am notating a piece I can already play then the fingering is already worked out.

If I was doing a piece for two or more guitars, the notation would be done from the basis of the sound of the music rather than how it would be played. The tab would be a result of trying to play what was written and finding the best way. If it turned out that a part was unplayable, that part would have to be re-written.

If some one had worked out how to generate playable tab from notation that would be amazing. Where you play stuff on the guitar neck can be affected by whether or not you use dynamics like hammer-ons, pull-offs or slides and whether you select open strings or closed box playing.

There can be more than one solution but I suppose editing could take care of that.

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: Stanron
Date: 07 Jun 18 - 12:32 PM

I've just tried out MusicEase. I can open an ABC file and generate a line of tab beneath it. The tab is weird, and in my first few minutes of trying I can't find out how to edit it. Interesting.

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 18 - 06:20 PM

@meself - if you are using a word processor to generate the ABC then it may be automatically producing 'curly quotes'. Some versions of EasyABC don't like them. I think the online converters can cope with them.

Subject: RE: ABC to standard notation
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Feb 22 - 04:11 PM

%%scale 0.65
X:1
T:Blue Moon Of Kentucky (banjo)
C:http://moinejf.free.fr/abcm2ps-doc/banjo.xhtml
M:4/4
L:1/4
V:1 treble-8
V:2 tab strings=G4,D3,G3,B3,D4 octave=-1
K:C
%
[V:1] z[Bg]   [cg]   [^cg]    |: ^c/[dd]/ g/d/       d/g/       d/d/ |
[V:2] z[B!5!g][c!5!g][^c!5!g] |: ^c/[dd]/ !5!g/!2!d/ d/!5!g/ !2!d/d/ |
%
[V:1] B/d/ B/d/ A/d/ G/d/ | E/c/ G/d/    g/G/ d/g/    |
[V:2] B/d/ B/d/ A/d/ G/d/ | E/c/ G/d/ !5!g/G/ d/!5!g/ |
%
[V:1] G/e/    g/G/ e/G/ E/e/ | D/d/    g/G/ d/g/    B/d/ |
[V:2] G/e/ !5!g/G/ e/G/ E/e/ | D/d/ !5!g/G/ d/!5!g/ B/d/ |