Tune Req: Silent O Moyle tune origin?

Subject: Tune Req: Silent O Moyle tune origin?
From: GUEST,Claire
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 02:45 PM

Hi,
I am singing Silent O Moyle for a Bloomsday celebration and I wonder if anyone knows the origin of the melody. There is lots of information about the lyrics, which were written by Thomas Moore, but I can't find any reference to the tune except that it is traditional. I love the song and any insight would be very appreciated.

Thanks,
Claire

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Silent O Moyle tune origin?
From: Lighter
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 03:34 PM

Moore wrote these words to a modernization of the tune "Arrah, My Dear Eveleen." I believe the original was played at the last convention of Irish harpers in Belfast about 1797.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Silent O Moyle tune origin?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 04:47 PM

"This melody was supplied by Dr Petrie to Holden's Collection [Irish Tunes], vol i, 1806 [p 21], where it appears as 'Arah my dear Ev'le[e]n.' Moore, who is indebted to Holden's work for so many of his airs, wrote [Silent, O Moyle!] to 'Arrah my dear Eveleen' for the second number of the Melodies, 1807."

Alfred Moffat, The Minstrelsy of Ireland, London: Augener (3rd edn, nd), 224-5.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Silent O Moyle tune origin?
From: GUEST,Claire
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 06:50 PM

Thanks very much,

Any idea how or when the tune was changed (modernized?) Would that be before or after it was provided to Holden's collection.

So many sing this song in an operatic - or musical theater style. I would like to sing it more traditionally. I am wondering if I should go on a search for the original tune.

Claire

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Silent O Moyle tune origin?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 09:06 PM

It was modified for Moore's arrangement, of course; whether or not it appeared in Holden as originally noted (presumably from tradition) I wouldn't know, but Moffat quotes both. I don't have time to post the Holden melody at the moment, but will try to provide it later.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Silent O Moyle tune origin?
From: Lighter
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 09:36 PM

At least one musicologist - can't remember the name, &*^%! it - has claimed that many of the melodies used by Moore would have been impossible to play, as written, on the traditional Irish harp owing to the accidentals which put the airs into the minor, and which the traditional tuning would not have allowed. Rather than minor, the originals were presumably modal. The minor, however, was usual for "art" music of the time, which is what Moore was writing lyrics for. Someone else must know more about this than I do. (Was it Dr. Petrie who questioned the arrangements? Or P. W. Joyce? Can't recall.)

It may be that no authentic early transcription of "Arrah, Dear Eveleen" survives.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Silent O Moyle tune origin?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 12:46 AM

Charles Villiers Stanford, for one.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Silent O Moyle tune origin?
From: masato sakurai
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 07:42 AM

According to Aloys Fleischmann, ed., Sources of Irish Traditional Music c. 1600-1855, 2 vols. (New York: Garland, 1998), the earliest record is in E. Light, ed., A Select Collection of Scottish & Irish Airs for the Voice, No. 5, vol. II (1790). The following are from Fleischmann.

X:1
T:Tell Me Dear Eveleen
M:C
L:1/8
S:Light, A Select Collection of Scottish & Irish Airs, 1790
N:Fleischmann no. 2986
K:G
g2 g3/2g/ f2 f3/2f/|egfe ^dBz2|e2 e3/2e/ ^dBzB|e2 f3/2f/ g2zg|
a2 bg f2 gf|egfe ^dBz2|e2 e2 gfe^d|e2~f2 g4||
efga b2z2|c'2 ba b2 e2|e2 e2 c'3 b|{b/}a2 {a/}g2 f4|
{e/}b4 e3 g|fgfe ^d2 B2|e3 e gfe^d|e2 ~f2 g4|]

X:2
T:Arah My Dear Ev'leen
M:2/2
L:1/8
S:Holden, A Collection of Old Established Irish Slow & Quick Tunes, c1805
N:Fleischmann no. 4521
K:C
c2 c3/2c/ B2 B2|AcBA ^G2 E2|A2 A2 A^GEE|A2 B2 c2 z2|
c2 ec B2 cB|AcBA A^GFE|A2 A2 A^GFE|A2 B2 c4| %or ...|AcBA A^G^FE|A2 A2 A^G^FE|...
|:ABcd e2 e2|f2 ed e2 A2|AA A2 f3 e|d2 c2 B4|
e4 A3 c|BcBA A^GFE|A2 AA cBA^G|A2 B2 c2z2:|] %or e4 a3 c|BcBA A^G^FE|...

X:3
T:The Song of Fionnuala
M:C
L:1/8
S:T. Moore, A Selection of Irish Melodies, bk II, c1807
N:Fleischmann no. 4766
K:C
c2 c3/2c/ {c/}B2 BB|Ac BA ^GEz2|A2 A3/2A/ ^GE z E|A2 B3/2B/ {B/}c2zB|
c2 ec {c/}B2 cB|Ac BA ^GEz2|A2 A3/2A/ cB A^G|A2 B2 {B/}c2z2|
AB cd e2 z e|f2 ed eAz2|A2 z A f3 e|{e/}d3 c {c/}B2z2|
e3 A A2zc|Bc BA ^GEz2|A3 A cB A^G|A2 B2 {B/}c2z2|]

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Silent O Moyle tune origin?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 08:55 AM

Re the harp: It wasn't that traditional tunings didn't allow accidentals; it was due to the diatonic nature of the Irish harp, which in those days had no semitone devices. (Pedal harps did, but they flourished in a different environment.)

On Celtic harps, if they were accompanying a song or another instrument the extra sharps and flats could be dealt with by simply leaving the 3rd out of the chord and letting the singer or other musician give the melody while the harp supplied surrounding harmony. Or, the harper could tune a particular note as a natural in one octave, and its sharp or flat in another octave. (Old tricks, but they still work!)

Incidentally, the gathering of harpers at Belfast was in 1792.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Silent O Moyle tune origin?
From: GUEST,Claire
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 11:10 AM

Thanks everyone,

I really appreciate all the info. Mudcatters to the rescue again.

Claire

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Silent O Moyle tune origin?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Oct 04 - 01:02 AM

Hey claire My college choir is singing it also, My teacher said it is a irish fariy tale or something. about a king and his 3 daughters and there all banished to a lake as swans and there is no braking the spell...I cant remember the rest of the story =(

well my names brian!