'why don't melodeon players give woodwin

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 01 Oct 04 - 03:33 AM

Perhaps the answer is to join the Hull Didgeridoo Club and learn circular breathing??

RtS

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 11:30 PM

This one hasn't unravelled yet.

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 01:15 PM

I think we need a new thread

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 01:14 PM

I guess it is relatively easy for festival organisers to put on easy and / or quiet sessions, perhaps they could make it a priority?

Sessions in pubs are not really the place to start.

Do any Folk Clubs run tune sessions for us less experienced folk?

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 09:43 AM

"Why don't you just talk to each other and work something out?"

Don't be silly, Les!!

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: MBSLynne
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 07:28 AM

The idea of 'easy tune' sessions and beginners sessions is a really good one. It's very daunting if you aren't a particularly experienced musician, to see all these people, a lot of whom are professional or semi-professional, playing away like mad. Joining in is scarey and difficult. I'd quite like to do the odd session, but am too nervous except the ones near home where I know all the musicians and they (sometimes) make allowances for me. I also know quite a lot of kids who are a bir diffident about joining session, for whom easier session might be good.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: Vixen
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 11:21 AM

"To 'make breath space' - you need to hit the first note of the bar for rhythm, so 'drop out' after that in the last bar of a phrase - will give you more time."

I'm going to try that trick...

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 08:55 PM

If I use my Howard Low C - I can play a whole 4 line stanza on a single breath - the Shaw Low D needs a refill at the end of each line of the 4...

To 'make breath space' - you need to hit the first note of the bar for rhythm, so 'drop out' after that in the last bar of a phrase - will give you more time.

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: Les from Hull
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 07:16 PM

Why don't you just talk to each other and work something out?

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: Moonunit
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 06:01 PM

*blush*

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: Moonunit
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 06:00 PM

I sometimes wish I had a pump or manual lung attachment on my oboe to do the messy business of breathing for me...

...and I don't mean the PINK oboe!

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 05:49 PM


less accessible key like C

Plenty of one-rows in C around here.

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: Marje
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 01:02 PM

I'm puzzled by the original question. If you mean why don't melodeon players play more slowly, I'd say that the opposite was often the case -most flute and whistle players can, if they want, play too fast for melodeons to keep up (well, at least if they're into the diddly Irish stuff). This is partly just the nature of the instrument, because they're not providing chords and basses, so they can take the tune as fast as they like. A meldeon played too fast can sound very messy, unless the player is extrememly good.

If you mean you want more breathing spaces during the tune, this could be because melodeon players are often used to playing for dance and will keep up a very constant tempo, whereas a flute or woodwind player may well choose to phrase the tune in a way that includes brief breath-pauses, which can sound fine but won't work for dancing or for much dance music.

Horses for courses - if you don't like the way another musician paces a tune, you can always lead a tune yourself and set the pace you want. And if the melodeons still rush you and give you problems, try a less accessible key like C or F, that'll shake most of them off.

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: Vixen
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 11:47 AM

"Breath control has nothing to do with speed but a lot to do with phrasing."

Good point, but when things get going really fast, my "spaces to breathe without slowing the rhythm" get smaller and smaller, so I tend to take in less air than I would at a slower tempo, which leaves me breathless by the end of the tune. I think the times I've gotten into that "zone" have been when I've been able, for whatever reason, to really fill my lungs FAST in a single breath. If I can do it sometimes, I should be able to do it always, but I haven't a clue as to how I do it.

The only solution I know is to practice practice practice...but I do sometimes wonder if there are physical limitations to the process!

V

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 10:58 AM

Breath control has nothing to do with speed but a lot to do with phrasing. You have to make your own spaces to breathe without slowing the rhythm but hopefully emphasising it.

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: Vixen
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 09:00 AM

Oh...vocalists understand breath control too....

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: Vixen
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 08:41 AM

I'm beginning to suspect that the only musicians who have any awareness of breath control are those who are playing wind instruments. String maniacs seem to think everyone should be able to keep up with them. Many is the time I've finished a tune feeling light headed, dizzy, and seeing little blue dots zooming around my head. Sometimes it's fun to see if I can get "into the zone" where time and speed have no effect on accuracy and tone, and the air I need seems to magically appear in my lungs as I need it. It's wildly exhilirating when it happens, but it's an experience that I get to have very very rarely...In the meantime, when the tempo gets too fast for me to breathe, I either drop out or play fewer notes.

Just my $0.02, fwiw.

V

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 08:07 AM

'Because most melodeon players with very few exceptions don't give a hoot for any other musicians present and just jam away regardless.'

Got a mirror?

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 07:45 AM

As a beginner on the mandola I find sessions scarry. This year at Whitby a session was offered for 'quiet' instruments and another for easy tunes. The quiet session was excellent, everybody gave everybody else a chance and the easy tunes was so popular we could just about squeeze in to Middle Earth.

Both sessions were really well led but I am sorry to say I have forgotten the names of the 2 excellent people who ran these sessions.

Sessions, by theie nature are anarchistic and I guess will remain soand quiet can be good for beginners.

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: GUEST,banjoman
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 07:23 AM

Because most melodeon players with very few exceptions don't give a hoot for any other musicians present and just jam away regardless.

Personally, I would ban more than one melodeon from any session and let the rest go somewhere else where they can carry on their incestuos practices.

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: fogie
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 04:30 AM

Presumably because the tunes theyre playing may not be ideally suited to woodwind. Equally there are plenty of Irish flute and fiddle tunes that most melodeonists cant cope with. When I'm playing melodeon I have a repertoir that is quite different from when I play saxophone or recorder. Admittedly a really good player of any instrument will be able to adapt his technique to the tune and each instrument can play it differently, and bring variety to a session. You dont expect a banjo player, or flautist, or harpist to be playing exactly the same way. Viva la difference!

Subject: RE: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 04:03 AM

Oh dear these short titles

The title should have been

why don't melodeon players give woodwind players time to breathe in sessions?

Subject: 'why don't melodeon players give woodwin
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Sep 04 - 04:02 AM

Coudn't resist this one - blame Liz the Squeek LOL :-)