Acoustic guitarist needs advice!

Subject: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: muppitz
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 07:14 AM

Please help!
I've been playing guitar for a number of years, I can throw quite a few songs out but I am completely clueless when it comes to contributing in sessions, i.e. when someone starts playing a tune and everyone else seems to know what chords are being played, I have NO idea and am left observing, I really want to join in, but I find it difficult to pick out the chords, any handy hints????

Thank you very much in advance!

Muppitz

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: GUEST,Nicky
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 07:19 AM

Hi there,
I have the same trouble but there is a very easy solution which I will find out on Thursday. In brief, you work out which key is being played and then strum 3rd fret / 4th fret alternatively and you can't goo wrong. A bit sketchy I know but I can tell you more on Friday!

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: webfolk
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 07:20 AM

Firstly, and the most obvious is to know what the tune is [Title etc] and get the chords, tab etc and learn it. Secondly, follow what's being played, most tunes have similar parrerns, chord progressions etc so aren't too difficult to work out accompaniment. Thirdy, and this has perhaps to be the most important, if you don't know, you really shouldn't play.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: GUEST,jennifer
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 07:21 AM

Clever clogs, that's the last time I email our secretary a Mudcat link in her lunchbreak!

Jennifer

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 07:28 AM

Practise is the only way to learn this, and of course that will annoy some people at sesssions. So the first essential is play quietly, and lean over your guitar so you can hear yourself. AS helpful background, get a tune book with chords and try them out(with a recording of the tune, or with a friend playing the tune). This way you will get useed to the sort of patterns that arise: most tunes only use two or three chords.(I said that the wrong way round. Tunes don't have chords, they are tunes. It's you who are using the chords, to accompany them. It's a well to remember this, f you get to arguing with another guitarists who uses different harmonies to yourself!)
    Ask whoever is kicking of the song or tune what key it's going to be in. That is good start, it will define at least one of the chords you need. And while it seems a complet incompreheible blur to start wit, things soon start emrging from the fog. There are, for example, a million Irish tunes in the key of Aminor. The vast majority of them only need two chords for a good accompaniment, Aminor and Gmajor. so play an Aminor, and when it starts sounding wrong, play G. When that start sounding wrong, revert to Aminor.
    Learn to fake. Use drones. If the tune is in D, and you can't make immerdiate sense of it, just bang away at a D and A drone. It'll probably sound just fine! When you've got that going, try the odd A chord wherever you think it might fit. Your ear9or other peoples' glares) will tell you how well you are doing.
   If you are thinking of playing along with people playing tunes, there is a golden rule you might think is worth considering. If there is already a guitarist backing the tunes, just sit and listen. Your time will come. It is a very rare guitarist who can add something appropriate to what the other guy is doing.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: GUEST,jennifer
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 07:35 AM

I thought Aminor was a character out of Lord of the Rings?

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: webfolk
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 07:42 AM

He'a a chap who used to work down the pit, isn't he?

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: breezy
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 07:56 AM

ask one of the players
'Oi what key is this in ?'

chances are it'll be D or G as thats the only keys most malodeons play in

try and recognise minor based tunes to major ones.

Just play the bass notes dont wory bout the whole chord

keep yor eyes on another guitarist.

Dont be afraid to ask and talk.

Most tune have 2 parts an A and B and the session may play the twicee each then again, and some times again, and again before changing the tune entirely, setting 2 or 3 tunes together

Some tunes have 3 parts

During some sets there maybe a change of key

now as for webfolk   PISS-OFF

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: webfolk
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 08:00 AM

I find this the most unfriendly place I have ever been, I offered what I thought, and still do, is some very practical advice, and get met with PISS OFF!
Please tell me what I said that was wrong, contradictory to anything else that has been said, or anything that justified beigntold to PISS OFF
I am very annoyed by people's attitudes!

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: Ross
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 08:34 AM

Don't worry about breezy - he does that to everyone

If the sessions quite noisy I sometimes put my ear to the sound box of the guitar and run my finger up the E bass string until it resonates (sounds sympathetic) with the music

A lot of tunes are cominations of the 1,4,5 progression (ie E,A,B or G,C,D or D,G,A)

Try picking out the bass note of the bar cord before hurtling into open chords

And always wear a vest

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 09:17 AM

I think it's a difficult skill to learn and one I have not got. I'm OK with most of the English tunes I know which are mostly morris dance tunes in a straight major key and my ear will tell me where to go.

A lot of the Irish music I play is modal and I find it hard if not impossible at times. Sometimes I find lets say a straight D will work but sounds like some variations are needed or that something outside the straight open major/minor chords are needed.

I also find that really good accompanyists are few and far between and that often 2 guitars may not work together.

A suggestion for you would be to look through Dave Mallinsons site and find a book.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: Amos
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 09:38 AM

Muppitz:

Rise Up SInging

A

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: GUEST,Jess A
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 09:42 AM

I agree with most of what other people have said here - that you won't learn without trying, but trying quietly and possibly in private first (if you can persuade a tame melody player to come and play some tunes for you to busk along to) might be a good idea. I guess as a melody player myself I am perfectly happy for people to experiment along with what I'm playing in sessions so long as it done sensitively and they are playing 'with' me not 'against' me. Listen listen listen!
Also, don't forget that all those people who seem to know exactly what they are doing are probably making it up as they go along to a certain extent so don't be too intimidated by them! Most folks are happy to give a few tips as they go along if you ask them nicely.

Webfolk, I think I know why breezy told you to piss off although that was a bit harsh... but saying 'if you don't know, you really shouldn't play.' without some sort of qualifier sounds like you're saying the world is divided into them as can and should, and them as can't & shouldn't. Everybody has to learn somehow!

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 10:49 AM

Our Acoustic Workshop starts every Tuesday evening with an hour of tune playing from music aimed specifically at beginners and improvers - a good mix of melodeons, fiddles, whistles and guitars and people are encouraged to shout "stop" and to ask about keys, chords etc.

If you can get to Beverley from where you are, try Nellies (the White Horse Inn) from 8.00ish

Roger

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: Les from Hull
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 10:51 AM

There's been some excellent advice here. Here's some of my own.

Firstly, talk to the melody players and find out what tunes are regularly played in your local sessions. Are tunes played twice or three times? What are the regular sets (tunes played in a particular way). Make some notes here (the kind you do with a pen and paper). Also talk to any other accompanists and find out what they are doing. If you get (or somebody else has) Dave Mallinson's 100 Essential Session Tunes, you'll find that many of the tunes mentioned are in there, and there's a suggested chord accompaniment as well. (But it's probably bad form to take the book with you unless it's a 'learning' session.)

You don't need to borrow a melody player. You can get all the tunes and software to play on your computer from here.

abc home page

but if you do want a melody player to attend to you personally, remember to provide lots of coffee, booze, chocolates or whatever.

There are also good points about when (and when not) to play. Many guitars have six strings (or so I've been told) and produce plenty of noise compared with the single notes produced by melody players.

There's also lots of good advice about how to behave in a session posted here and in similar threads by regular session players.

Good luck, and have fun!

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: GLoux
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 11:22 AM

If you are in a session with another guitar player, and you like what you are hearing, watch what that guitar player is doing and copy it, keeping your volume down so as to not overpower the other player. If you can engage the other player in conversation between tunes, ask any questions you may have about chord choices, etc. Searching for workshops and sessions that are beginner-friendly is always an option.

-Greg

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 12:31 PM

It is important that you train your ear to hear the chord changes and you can anticipate them.

Also, position yourself to watch another guitarist's left hand (if you like most play righthanded) to see where they go.

I have to disagree with the one above who said if the song is in D to just keep playing a drone D chord. That's a good way to get some of the better players to walk out of the room.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: Chris Green
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 12:32 PM

Further to the drones thing by greg, playing in DADGAD and a capo is o good starting point. Most trad tunes can be reduced to the three-chord trick - start off simple and throw in more interesting chords when you've worked out what the basic three-chord structure is. It also not a bad idea to listen to recordinga of other guitarists backing tunes - often it's the rhythm that the guitarist's playing that makes the arrangement interesting. The Bothy Band's a good starting point for that and in the same vein Denny from Last Night's Fun is a bit of a whiz at this too!

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: Betsy
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 12:49 PM

You really need to know abit about the tune or you'll just be guessing .
All of the writers have mentioned various keys - Ross mentioned EAB but I can't remember any trad stuff in E regularly played in Sessions - but THAT's my recollection not a fact.
One key which is not so good for guitarists A followed by D & E which can be a bit repetitious for guitarists and they're usually Scottish Tunes for some reason. Before someone bites my head off I usually hear Masons Apron in A and thats a cracker - so I'm not writing off all Scottish Tunes / in A.
Let's assume you cant read music - I can't , then all you can do is COPY a guitarist who seems to know what he's doing .
When you get back home after the session , try to "diddle" the tune(s)in your head and play along with guitar and see how much you remembered.
The only other thing I can suggest is when you go to a club - watch the guitarists who accompany or are part of a group - and try to COPY him / her.
I unashamedly make the COPY suggestion - e.g. whenever I saw the Ranters I always took special note of Tommy Gilfellon's playing, simple accurate and complimented the other musicians perfectly.
Once you're up and running you can develop your own style and "copy" disappears .
All I have written assumes that the guitar is tuned "normally", but, should you be in a session where the guitarist(s) are playing open tunings - that's another matter, and time for you to start asking questions - how do you do this / that.
I'm sure that anyone will help if asked - it's a compliment to be asked in the first place .

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: Chris Green
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 01:07 PM

It's my experience that most session players are more than happy to share techniques and tips. It's how I learned!

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: Chris Green
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 01:20 PM

It's also worth noting that a lot of Irish tunes are in modes rather than scales. This means that for example a mixolydian tune in A will alternate with D and G rather than D and E. (For a less cack-handed explanation of modal tunes than the one you're likely to get from me, have a look at this thread!)

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 02:43 PM

Breezy, that gratuitous "PISS OFF" has just lost your folk club one new customer.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: belfast
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 02:49 PM

The BBC site has a "virtual session". There on the screen is the music, chords etc. and out of the speakers comes the music. You can practice and make mistakes in the privacy of your own home. You will find it here:The Virtual Session

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: Betsy
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 03:12 PM

Hi Belfast ,
I just gave that link a quick look ( I'm at Work ) looks the exact biz. - I learn something every day

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 03:53 PM

I suspect that you haven't yet developed a strong ability to "hear" where the chord changes come in a simple two- or three-chord type folk song. If that's the case, keep listening, keep playing, maybe sign up with a teacher, and try to develop your "ear" for chordal harmony. It's a basic skill you need not only for playing/jamming with others, but also for making your own arrangements of songs you like (or maybe even, eventually, songs you write!)

A good way to develop familiarity with the basic chord progressions in the various keys is to play a familiar simple song in various different keys.

If you can hack your way through a basically-correct sequence of chords in each of the most commonly-used keys, just *ask* what key a song is about to played in and you should be good-to-go.

Of course, if there are other guitarists at the session -- and if at least one is usng the same tuning you are -- you should be able to learn everything you need by *watching* while listening to the first verse or two, and then joining in.

Irish/Celtic "modal" songs present a special problem, because they are not built on chord structures in the manner of many other folksongs (including just about all American folksongs). These songs were originally sung without accompaniment and/or played on single-note "melody" intruments that don't make chords, and it can be quite a subtle art to add chords that do not detract from the musical quality of at least a few lines or phrases.

Depending upon the group you're joining in with, you should be able to learn the most commonly used keys. That way, you'll have less guessing to do. If there are fiddles and mandolins and/or banjos, G will be the most popular key, with D the next choice. Someone above noted that they have never known the key of E to be used in their experience (Scottish sessions?), but my own experience in the US is quite the opposite -- E is by far the most popular key for blues jamming. Different strokes for different folks...

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: breezy
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 04:38 PM

Did I say that? my I must wash my finger tips,
Did I offend you webbby? if so I am ever so so sorry, and to anyone else who was offended by my indiscretion.
Now I will Piss off before I upset anyone else


Why cant I be more tactful and diplomatic like that Guest Jess?

must go on a course somewhere.

My other trick is to start a tune in c sharp!!!

oo what a mischievous monkey I can be.

We have fun at our folk club, so anonymous guest who will never come , you wont be missed, and you wont miss us.


O K O K I'm p-ing off

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: vectis
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 06:22 PM

Thanks belfast I have added the site to my favourites. Very useful practice for playing along instead of making the pace.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 06:58 PM

I always just put on my best sheepish grin and ask someone who looks (or sounds, anyway)like they know what they're doing.

And once you've got the basic sound down, you can always make three chords sound more interesting by varying the rythym a little, or messing about on the bass strings occasionally. I always thought that by doing this, if it's done right, one was adding another layer of sound to the tune, rather than competing with the other musicians- but then a lot of musicians are gross egotists! ;) No offence to gross egotists, by the way...

"Thirdy, and this has perhaps to be the most important, if you don't know, you really shouldn't play"? If i wasn't so nice, i might say piss off myself! How is anyone suposed to learn in the first place without playing, and making mistakes along the way? Good grief, you start, you play, you're absolutely unlistenable, you learn, you get better, and wham! before you know it, you're good.....It's a natural progression. That's just how it goes. And the majority of people are perfectly willing to put up with your bum notes and stupid questions. The only exception i would say to this, is that if you're in a well practised, highly skilled group of musicians, and there's any air of formality just watch, listen and learn. There's something to be said for that too on occasion. :)

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 07:01 PM

As an afterthought, you may want to learn a few songs really well, and then you can start things off and show off a bit. Also, you'll get to see how other people go about joining in.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 07:57 PM

Damn! That Virtual Session is a lot of fun--and as good a preparation as anyone is likely to get--only problem is, if you get lost, there is no one to follow back in--

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: GUEST,M25
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 12:32 AM

It's already been mentioned but practise is everything here. Get yourself lots of CDs , tapes, old vinyls, anything you can, and play along in private with everything you can for as long as you can. Learn to identify initially if the tune is in a major or minor key (on a recording it is less likely to be G or D maj or Aminor but get used to using a capo as it can always help you out in a session, and also helps to tune your ear in generally). You can learn to play along with tunes you don't know but it's vital to recognise the correct chord sequences. If a chord sounds wrong it probably is, so learn (more practise I'm afraid) as many of the common tunes as possible.   Books CAN be ok for this but quite often they can also be misleading as they might show a Gmaj(for example) and the recording of the same tune has an Emin in the same place, quite often down to the interpretation of the individual musician. Both chords may work - but not together! You've already acknowledged that you stop playing when you don't know the chords, I wish there were more like you, it's a courteous thing to do - in a gathering of half serious musicians anyway, probably not so important at other times, but gauge that yourself. Playing by ear is rewarding for yourself and the other musicians, just practise and I'm sure you'll get there. Good luck.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: moocowpoo
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 02:10 AM

learning a few tunes can help to get an Idea of what they do. MODES are very,very useful to know I kind of know them in my ear without much theory, just practise.. Once you can identify the mode of a tune, It's not too hard to play along...And (it's been said many times now) the best way is to listen to accompaniment, listen to what things other players do, (I like bass and double stop runs). I don't play guitar all that much anymore (bouzouki now) but for guitar there are some good alternate tunings for Irish stuff I like dropped d -dadgbd.

Sessions are the best way to learn and if there is another person accompanying, if you just experiment quietly, no one else will hear, that's how I learnt bouzouki. When I was starting, people would complain that they couldn't hear me (and it's a small session)so, it really shouldnt bother people (unless they dont like the 'look' of someone learning..). When there is a person accompanying on guitar I listen to their style and patterns and I fit my playing to theirs, if you don't do this, the chords will often clash and it becomes a mess....Lastly... its fun to use lots of variations of chords, you can achieve a lot of different sounds without bothering to use a capo. may the sauce be with you muhcow.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: Mooh
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 07:23 AM

I like the Virtual Session too, but there are errors like missing repeat signs and in one case I noticed a repeat not observed by the band, but by and large it's pretty good. There are lots of places where, when you're able, you should change or add some chords too. Might be a good workshop to sit down with an experienced player to give you a primer with the Virtual Session...it's so easy to get the band to pause. Printable scores too.

Only on the job training and trial by fire will make you learn to hear the chord changes and I suggest the VS is a good place to start.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: fiddler
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 08:29 AM

Well I never Did!

How often do they change the Tunes!

My neck of teh woods is a bit bare for sessions so you never learn owt new this is a good way to keep the wheels a turnin.

And how often do you get to play wiht guys like that?

Andy
XX

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: muppitz
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 08:39 AM

Thank you so much EVERYONE for your advice!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: belfast
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 09:01 AM

I'm pleased that some of you have found the 'virtual session' link useful. As it happens one of the guys playing at that session is a friend of mine but it was not from him that I learned of the site. Where did I hear about it? Why, here at mudcat of course. (And it was here that I learned, among other things, how to make the blue clicky thing.)

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: GUEST,KJ
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 09:14 AM

Lots of useful hints there muppitz. If you've been playing the guitar for a number of years and can accompany songs then you ought to be competent by now, so maybe it's a lack of confidence. I'd be very tempted to find out the names of the most popular tunes played at sessions 'Atholl Highlanders' is a good start!! and choose two or three to practice at home to a CD etc until you are really confident with the chord progressions. Then it's a matter of transposing the key to whichever is used at the session & listening to the rhythm. Maybe starting with a slower tune might be useful. Once you're confident with a few tunes & not making any major bollocks then your confidence will grow. Also remember that the other guitarists in the sessions might not be playing the right chords/key/rhythm either!!! (been to a few). Your ears are your most important asset, use them & good luck.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 03:23 PM

That Virtual Session is something else! As a dumb American who doesn't know a reel from a jig, I certainly intend to practice my ass off with the virtual band. Then, if I can ever afford another trip across the pond, maybe I'll be ready to jump in and participate the next time I visit Gus O'Connor's in Doolin, or wherever else I might find myself.

One minor complaint -- it's hard to hear any of the instruments except the fiddle (which, I know, is the lead -- but it's not the ONLY part worth listening to!). As a guitar player, I'll certainly be able to find *some* way to play the chord changes in a compatible style/rhythm, but it would be nice if I could more readily hear exactly what the band's guitarist -- presumably well versed in the tradition -- was doing. Same for the bodhran, squeezebox, etc.

(From what I've read on this forum, I thought the bodhran player was ALWAYS too loud; not at the Virtual Session!)

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: GUEST,spikeis
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 03:38 PM

What a self indulgent up his own over inflated ego of a pillock Breezy is!! Never seen his contributions before, and never want to again, BUT, you haven't just lost one "newcomer" to your folk club, because your brain doesn't extend beyond your next pint, you've made the mistake of not thinking WHO reads mudcat, and gues what, LOT'S of top line artists and performers ( as well as punters ) WILL NOT NOW BE COMING TO YOUR CLUB. Think on that when you have "mysterious trouble booking anyone to appear! The word WILL be spread.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: breezy
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 04:08 PM

handbags at 5 paces again and after I had contributed such a sincere apology too.

I blame you muppitz

Obviously well researched spike, you've done your homework, you dont stereo type, you are a swift judge of character and personality.

Not as many top liners as you may think.

You are knew here spite, may I therefore welcome you as another sad fellow pillock.

BTW All the top line artistes have already played my club and all within the last 3 years and some have been twice and some are coming again.

bet you dont even pay to go to a decent folk club, buy artistes CDs and I bet you hang around the fringes at festivals and dont buy tickets , talk throughout sessions, but then I could be totally wrong.

No offence but you couldnt help being ignorant.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: breezy
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 04:17 PM

virtual session is fun

So thats how the silver spear should sound, says I after having been playing it for years.

go for it mupps

Trust the positive advice is proving helpful and the digressions entertaining!!

Tomorrow night Friday 1st Oct Marilyn Middleton at the Duke of Marlborough, St Albans

on Sunday 3rdOct at the British Legion, Verulam Road, St Albans the Spotlight club features Chris Amos who got the gig by asking for one,
and Anahata aka Treewind and Mary Humphries have threatened to turn up

Floor artistes are asked to arrive by 7.45 to guarantee a spot and ask for Steve or Christine

As for me I'm booked at Folk on the Moor near Plymouth

A moving target is more difficult to hit!!!!

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: leeneia
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 10:46 PM

When we do it, people playing guitar to a new tune learn by watching the fingers of the other guitarists. Almost everything is in D or G, and people quickly learn spot when others' fingers are on G, D, Bm or the other chords for those keys.

I should mention that we always sit in a circle, so everyone can see everyone else.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: Ross
Date: 01 Oct 04 - 03:51 AM

Sorry - I don't know many tunes in E,A & B either - it's more of a blues thing

I was just trying to give some examples of a 1,4,5 progression in case it wasn't familiar with the thread starter

I hope you've got your vest out - it's cold & foggy in the home counties this morning

Breezy - how about you joining the United Nations (ACAS section)

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: breezy
Date: 01 Oct 04 - 04:46 AM

I've been thinking bout it for a while Ross, you reckon I'ld do a good job eh?

Just watching a video of Marilyn Middleton performing Bedlam boys from her previous visit 18 months ago, and her duet with one of our residents, what a trouper.

Sorry I digress, as usual.

tonight at the Duke

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: black walnut
Date: 01 Oct 04 - 07:32 AM

I think that it's a good start to learn I, IV, V, and II. II is always a shocker. Sit beside someone who can sit on your left and whisper the keys to you, and the chords, and who promises to play simple chords which you can easily see and copy. It helped me a lot, and I had a bit of a breakthrough with jamming a couple of years ago doing just that.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: Ross
Date: 01 Oct 04 - 09:22 AM

Yeah - why not John - with your tact & diplomacy - world peace is only a strum away

I was talking to Tom Jones & Shirley Bassey in the cafe this morning

They are outraged by your behaviour and will never play St Albans again

Have a good time with Marilyn tonight

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Oct 04 - 09:27 AM

The best ideas have already been said:
Learn to hear chord changes and predict them.
Watch other guitarists' hands. (Pick a GOOD guitarist!)

If you can tape a session and practice at home, it would be good. Even if you practice with pros' CDs or tapes, you'll get used to hearing and predicting, as well as maintaining tempo, and they won't throw things at you.

A friend of mine Ryan Thomson ("Captain Fiddle") has written a book: Chord Encyclopedia, with chords for 1400 fiddle tunes. (Irish, American, English, Canadian, Scottish, etc.) I was visiting Rick Fielding and he was talking about accompanying other musicians. He whipped out the book, and said "You NEED to get this!" I looked at it, and found it was written by Ryan, whom I know and who lives less than 10 miles from me and is the only person I've ever taken 'official' lessons (fiddle) from. It's a good book, and he takes orders from everywhere.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 04 - 02:05 PM

Someone ought to mention the 'minor' tunes in Irish-type sessions. These aren't really minor but I don't think a discussion about modes is really approprate here. There're always called minor and the keys used are Am Em and Bm. You can sometimes get away with accompanying these with just two chords Am and G for Aminor tunes, Em and D for Eminor, and Bm and A for Bminor.

You can also add a third chord sometimes, as long as the other accompanists are doing similar. This will be an F for Am tunes, a C for Eminor and a G for Bminor. I hope this is clear. It's quite simple to play but it sounds much more complicated now I've typed it all out.

There's a lot that you can do with progressions between chords (once you know what the next chord is and when you need to get there). You can also vary your strumming: sometimes what you don't play is more important than what you play. And if there are two many guitarists playing the same thing, you can be different by playing inversions further up the neck, or by capoing and playing in a different key shape.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: Les from Hull
Date: 01 Oct 04 - 02:16 PM

Sorry, that was me. New computer and all that.

Subject: RE: Acoustic guitarist needs advice!
From: GUEST,Spikeis
Date: 02 Oct 04 - 04:35 AM

Well Breezy, "you've done your homework, you dont stereo type, you are a swift judge of character and personality" Yeah I guess your "piss off" to a newbie puts you in the same category, and as I said before, cos my swift judge of character tells me you need to repeat things to people like yourself twice, think about who MAY be reading your nonsense, and YES what a suprise you are totally wrong, as I have been involved in performing not just in the folk scene, but in other musical arenas, producing and arranging ,and running clubs AND large concerts for over 28 years. But of course, to someone who had to sing for over TWO HOURS to get the club established several times, I suppose that's nowt.
Oh yeah, they've playED your club, but untill they turn up again, nowts set in concrete.
I could make a terrible sugestion, and risk upsetting you, but here goes, TRY ENGAGING BRAIN BEFORE ENGAGING FINGERS, and be NICE to people, cos I wasn't always sure what a F#Dm 7th was either!
To the newbie, don't worry, there are MOSTLY nice people at a lot of the clubs ( like the one I'm involved in ) but some people have what's known as a "dry" sense of humour, which takes some getting used to !( nearly there myself after 30 years!!!!)