Bob Copper on BBC TV4

Subject: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 08:15 AM

The late Bob Copper & his family doing their thing in a documentary rebroadcast on BBC 4 TV (digital)next Friday week 15th Oct at 9pm (clashes with start of new French & Saunders series on BBC1).

RtS

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: GUEST,Sooz (at work)
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 08:20 AM

Much more important it clashes with Gainsborough Folk Festival Wonder if I can remember how to set ythe video.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: vectis
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 06:31 PM

That's typical!!!!! :-(((
I live 5 miles from his old home and can't receive the programme because we don't have digital signals.
I must try and get a refund on me licence.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 06:38 PM

I don't think it's a re-broadcast, but a new documentary (though obviously made a while ago). The word is that it's good.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: GUEST,Jon Dudley
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 02:58 AM

It is indeed a new documentary! And only recently completed. The Family has seen it as have a few others and all agree that it's very well made. It runs right up to Bob's Memorial service in Rottingdean, an event handled with great sympathy. Who knows, it may pass over to BBC2 in the future as many BBC4 programmes do these days.

It has been produced by Dave Battcock of Synchronicity and directed/filmed largely by Graham Johnston who incidentally has made a wonderful programme about the music of Madagascar. I think it's not only a fine portrait of Bob but also provides an insight into the dynamics of the rest of the Family.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 04:17 AM

yeh clashes with my gig at Riddings folk club. Obviously one for the video recorder. French and Saunders will be repeated ad nauseam on UK Gold. Or you could ask the bloke down the street who's got to go out and doesn't know how the timer works on his recorder, even though he's had the machine for twelve years.

Its very good that all these channels are putting on shows about those in the folk galaxy. Wonder if the rest of us will ever get a look in.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Alio
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 07:14 AM

Thanks very much for this information - if it wasn't for Mudcat, I'd NEVER know what was going on!!

Ali

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 07:24 PM

The programme will be repeated at 2.15 am on the Friday-Saturday night, and again at 12.45 am on the Saturday-Sunday night. Details are now up at the BBC4 website:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/music/features/coppersongs.shtml

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: shepherdlass
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 07:04 AM

Thanks for this info - I'd have missed it too (something to do with the daze I walk around in)

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 14 Oct 04 - 05:40 AM

This program was also reported in the last Sunday Times supplement as their pick of the week's viewing.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 Oct 04 - 04:34 AM

If I miss the first veiwing, why do I have to wait until bat crow to see it again? What's the point of putting programmes on at that time of the night, not once, but bloody TWICE!

The Radio Times gave it a nice write up though, it's their pick of the digitals for today.

LTS

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 Oct 04 - 04:37 AM

Thread Creep - does Dave Battcock have relation called Nick Battcock who works for the Inland Revenue? If so, I work with him! (When I bother to go in to work that is.....!) How many Battcocks can there be in the world?

LTS

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: GUEST,MBS
Date: 15 Oct 04 - 05:02 PM

What a fantastic programme of the copper families singing life.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Polly Squeezebox
Date: 15 Oct 04 - 05:08 PM

If you missed this programme the first time around tonight set your alarms for the next couple of nights and get it on video. It's a programme you will want to watch again and again - wonderful insight into the family, lovely archival singing and some absolutely stunning shots of the area they are privileged to live and sing in. What a debt we owe to Bob and his ancestors, and what a wonderful man - loved the twinkle in his eye!

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 15 Oct 04 - 05:11 PM

It was a wonderful programme,as Polly says set your alarms for 2.15 to record the programme on channel 4.
Scooby

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Oct 04 - 06:10 PM

I watched this with a silly grin on my face, and a lump in my throat, this is quite the most inspiring programm, I've seen in years.
Giok

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 04 - 06:15 PM

If I miss the first veiwing, why do I have to wait until bat crow to see it again? What's the point of putting programmes on at that time of the night, not once, but bloody TWICE!

I'm sorry Liz, but what is your complaint? Would it be better if it wasn't repeated? If you are too untogether to either watch or record either broadcast, then I'm afraid that's your problem, not the BBC's.

Lovely programme, though I doubt that I'll want to watch it "again and again"

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Oct 04 - 06:19 PM

Here is the BBC page about this programme, with the times, and an interview with the producer.

It was a lovely programme. It really makes me sick, those "experts" the other day people saying BBC4 is a waste of cash. Of course the problem is a lot of the best stuff is aimed at people who've got other things to do than sit and watch the telly, as this thread has shown.

Still most of us probably have video recorders we can set (if we can get BBC4 at all, of course). "What's the point of putting programmes on at that time of the night, not once, but bloody TWICE!" That's surely to allow for the fact that a lot of people like us are bound to set our video recorders wrong the first time...

The programme has a really great ending. You think it's going to stop with the notice saying he died four days after getting his MBE presented to him at Buckingham Palace - and then it has a lovely snatch of his commemoration parade and service. And then Bob surprises us all, by turning up once more, and it ends with him walking off into the sunset roaring with laughter. Marvellous.

Now, how do I go about setting this video to tape BBC4 at 2.15...

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 Oct 04 - 06:52 PM

Not everyone in the world has a video recorder Guest.... and not everyone has the sort of lifestyle that lets them stay up til 2.am to watch a programme that could be repeated at a more sensible time on a more accessible channel.

I did see it (French and Saunders wasn't all that good to be honest.... not the same edge to it as there used to be... maybe it will improve with time), and enjoyed it enormously. I like the bit about singing slowly and alternating lines so the singers could get a bite of rabbit pie in.

And yes, the final shot of their silhouettes with the golden sea behind them and the green field under their feet, with the sound of his laughter is one that should be immortalised somewhere.

LTS

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 15 Oct 04 - 07:03 PM

Can't help feeling that some of these comments would be better made or at least echoed at the BBC4 site however bad it may be as I suspect more people involved would read there than read a 3rd party site although comments here will hopefully encourage more people to try for the BBC4 Folk output. In another sense, and an important one IMO MC has a much larger audience of people to attract.

I did enjoy the program. My own comments there were:

Well I watched it and enjoyed it. I think the biggest thing that came over to me was what a delightful character Bob Copper came accross as. I wish I'd had the honour of meeting him.

Outside music, I could add to that I could easily imagine Pip spending an hour with him simply discussing rural life...

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Eye Lander
Date: 15 Oct 04 - 07:26 PM

wow what a wonderful programme, sung my way all through it. The best bit was to see the tradition continuing down through the generations. Cor goose bumps and tingly spine all the way through the programme, hope to watch it again on Sunday evening at 10pm.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: John Routledge
Date: 15 Oct 04 - 07:57 PM

Thanks for comments guys.

Sunday at 10pm looks favourite :0) Better than 2.15-3.15am today.!!

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 15 Oct 04 - 10:34 PM

Just seen the first repeat: a lovely piece, I thought, respectful and affectionate; and the ending was just right. I never met Bob to talk to beyond exchanging smiles a couple of times, but we have his books, his recordings, and all the songs. To an extent, we all knew him, and we're all better for it. That's quite something.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Dave Swan
Date: 15 Oct 04 - 10:56 PM

My group was lucky enough to open for, then sing with, Bob, Jill, John and Jon here in the U.S.

I'd be most grateful if any M'cat on that side of the pond could help me lay hands on a CD or tape of this show. I'll make whatever technical adjustments need to be made over here, reimburse you for costs, and buy you a pint next time I'm there.

Thanks so much.

Dave

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Sarah the flute
Date: 16 Oct 04 - 10:29 AM

Great programme ....makes me glad I bought a digibox!!!!

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Oct 04 - 10:35 AM

I have made a video, which is reasonable quality. I hope to convert it to a DVD during this week, but as I've never tried it before, I have no idea how well or badly it will turn out. If it is tolerable, I'll post you a copy, Dave, if you PM me your address.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Lanfranc
Date: 16 Oct 04 - 10:41 AM

Beautiful, inspiring! Like many of the above I watched it with a lump in my throat and a tear in my eye. Will video it on Sunday.

More, BBC, more!!

Alan

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 16 Oct 04 - 10:46 AM

Beautiful programme, what a beautiful man and singer Bob was.

eric

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: GUEST,MBS
Date: 16 Oct 04 - 11:14 AM

What a fantastic programme it was.It was good to know the words of the songs too,cant wait until tonight and see it over again.Well done BBC4 for a programme worth watching.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Oct 04 - 01:36 PM

And in between the two showings on Sunday they've got a repeat of the Sidmouth 50th anniversary programme, at midnight.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 16 Oct 04 - 01:46 PM

Cooper family AT 10.00
Eliza Carthy AT 11.00
Sidmouth Folk Festival AT 12.00
All on BBC4.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 04 - 11:16 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Fee
Date: 17 Oct 04 - 11:36 AM

It was a brilliant programme, I'd heard of the Copper family mainly from other people singing their songs, but din;t know much about them or how they ended up with all these songs, so this was fantastic background filler for me...:o)

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Oct 04 - 11:57 AM

I imagine it might have been a bit puzzling for people who hadn't come across this kind of music before, with only snatches of the songs. I hope some time they have a programme that gives people a chance to hear the songs in full. (That's not a complaint, mind. I think there's a lot to be said for giving people just a taster, enough to get them curious to get hold of more.)

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: bazza
Date: 17 Oct 04 - 03:16 PM

what an amazing programme about a wonderful man,I have not enjoyed anything like it on t.v.for years

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Oct 04 - 04:39 PM

I really liked it and cannot resist the reference to two other threads here and a knock on comment:

1. Perhaps, if we accept that the Coppers represented the preservation of the tradition, this puts paid to the suggestion that the English Tradition did not include harmony singing.

2. A friend of mine still refuses to go back to the Coppers old club because when (some time ago) he (my friend) accompanied himself singing "The Cutty Wren" on the guitar, Bob Copper allegedly made him feel very uncomfortable about using a non-traditional instrument (for English folk music)

3. I do several Coppers songs - with rhythmic guitar accompaniments - but I like them that way, resulting in the remark at Tenterden that if Bob Copper could have heard them he would be turning in his grave! I still like them, and ain't stopping.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 17 Oct 04 - 05:02 PM

Sing the songs in whatever way you like, Richard.

Anyone who considers that there should be a 'purity' in traditional music is an idiot.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Oct 04 - 05:32 PM

That was something that Martin Carthy and Norma Waterson made very clear - that although it's fantastic that the old ways and traditions are continued, they are allowed to evolve - even the younger generation of Coppers sing the same songs is a different way. From what I could see from the programme, Bob was very proud of them too.

LTS

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 17 Oct 04 - 08:12 PM

Bob himself compared traditional song to a house; you can furnish it as you like, and put up your own wallpaper; but it's your duty and responsibility to pass it on to the next occupant intact and undamaged.

Don't forget to send a message to BBC4 thanking them for the programme. They appreciate feedback (especially the positive kind!) and the more they get, the more likely we are to see more things like this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/contact.shtml

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 17 Oct 04 - 08:48 PM

I just wonder whether Bob Copper was as dismissively purist as Richard suggests. Obviously I cannot speak for him, but I can vividly remember John Copper coming over to tell me how much he had enjoyed my accompaniment to Canadee-I-O, during a singaround some years ago.

Of course, Canadee-I-O isn't a Coppersong, and in addition he may well have been familiar with Nic Jones version ( my accompaniment was pretty much a note-for-note duplication ), but nonetheless ...

On the other side of the coin, I once made the mistake of singing Adieu Sweet Lovely Nancy in a singaround in Sussex, with what I thought was a pretty nifty (and original) guitar accompaniment, and was immediately drowned out by the assembled company who weren't having any of it, and proceeded to sing the rest of the song as it should be sung.

I still like my version, however, although I would never dare to sing it in Sussex again.

btw, the programme tonight was absolutely wonderful, one of the best and most enjoyable productions I have ever seen.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Oct 04 - 09:03 PM

Right, I've just used the link Malcolm gave to send my thanks to BBCFour, not just for the Bob Copper programme, but for the Eliza Carthy Concert and the repeat of the Sidmouth documentary which were also on tonight. And I said that, if they were scrapping all the TV channels, and keeping just the one, it'd have to be BBCFour.

I hope the rest of the people who loved this chance to see Bob Copper given the respect he deserved will do the same. Feedback really does matter, especially in the wake of that stupid report last week slagging off this channel.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: GUEST,Jon Dudley
Date: 18 Oct 04 - 02:50 AM

I cannot let Richard's remarks...

"2. A friend of mine still refuses to go back to the Coppers old club because when (some time ago) he (my friend) accompanied himself singing "The Cutty Wren" on the guitar, Bob Copper allegedly made him feel very uncomfortable about using a non-traditional instrument (for English folk music) "

...go unchallenged. Firstly, the Coppersongs Folk Club has not been running for at least 16 years, so his friends' boycott was a wise decision as any return would have been a wasted journey. But more importantly, having known Bob extremely well for most of my adult life this remark just doesn't ring true in any way. He was no purist and was encouraging of almost anything he heard in the way of interpretation of traditional music and even if (and this is extremely unlikely) it wasn't 'his cup of tea' he most certainly would never have voiced that opinion to the musician concerned. When it came to meeting and in his relationships with strangers - folkies or anyone - Bob was never less than kind, generous with his time and exuberant and encouraging with his praise. Incidentally, he had a catholic taste in music and was known to strum the guitar himself much to the horror of some BBC people in the early 50's!

Would that I had his tolerance, good humour and generosity of spirit. I try but I fail.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Cats at Work
Date: 18 Oct 04 - 04:26 AM

I can only echo the other voices that have said what a superb programme this was. It was an honour to share a short time with Bob and his family, even though it was on TV. Having been brought up in Sussex the Copper family were always there in the background along with many other source singers of the time. The tears came at the funeral. I had seen the stills but to see the procession through the town tugged at the heart strings. Forget the arguing about being a purist or how many times it was shown, just be thankful, and proud, that we had someone of his calibre in our tradition and that we still have the family to carry it on.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: belfast
Date: 18 Oct 04 - 05:58 AM

I caught this program last night, sunday, and I only join in here to say thanks for drawing our attention to it. What a wonderful bunch of people the Copper family are!

BBC4 stuff is sometimes repeated on BBC2. I hope this is one of them.

I've just glanced at some of the comments up there talking about his 'purism'. Did you hear him talking about first hearing a recording of Sleepy John Estes? Did that sound like a guy with a closed mind?

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Oct 04 - 06:28 AM

stayed up til 3.30 to catch the repeat. Fantastic programme.

When I first heard the Watersons in the 60's and later saw revivalist singers at places like the Jolly Porter in Exeter - the unaccompanied singing was a bit of a puzzling revelation to me. the watersons said they used to sing together as a family, but it was always a bit of a mystery to me what they actually meant. To see the routine of this activity was both charming and elucidating.

Perhaps I am being unfair but it seems to me that we don't make quite enough of Bonny Sartin of the Yetties in this country. Heres a guy whose family was an important source for the Hammonds collection. Really we're talking about a primary source.

However whilst the Copper family seem to be getting royal recognition and fending off offers to tour the states - the yetties are doing a gig near Weymouth pier - lot of the time for uncomprehending tourists, and as an eminence gris, they didn't seem to be accorded too much eminence at the recent Weymouth Folk Festival.

Still I guess thats showbusiness - those are the breaks!

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Folkien
Date: 18 Oct 04 - 06:56 AM

What a wonderful programme Coppersongs was. I'm so glad I saw Bob Copper at his last birthday party in Lewes. As we saw from the programme, the Royal Oak was packed to the gills to hear this wonderful man and his family sing. I count myself as privilaged to have seen and heard a man who has done so much to keep our traditional music and culture alive, and a family who are determined to see that legacy continue.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: GUEST,Jon Dudley
Date: 18 Oct 04 - 08:09 AM

The Yetties and many others richly deserve more recognition.

But I would say that we are certainly not 'fending off offers to tour the states' and you're dead right, it certainly ain't show business - if it were we wouldn't be anywhere near it.

Ours is the simple enjoyment of simple music by simple people (us) which we adore to sing as a family and occasionally, when be-stirred, share with others who are interested. Performance is another thing altogether.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Oct 04 - 12:23 PM

sorry about you're not fending of offers Jon - I just picked up on all the chat about gigs. Any of our American friends out there who could remedy this?

I take your point about showbiz, I suppose in a way that's where the difference lies. Bonny has taken his heritage out to the market place and gone after record contracts, tours etc. Whereas the Copper family seem to do other jobs - or should I say jobs other than music.

I just thought it was nice the obvious reverence with which you seem to be held - and believe me when the subject of the Copper family comes up amongst folkies, the tone of conversation goes distinctly reverential! It made me think a bit of reverence wouldn't go amiss with one or two other of the grizzled bonces on our folk scene.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 04 - 01:13 PM

Sorry...we're not complaining. We've done many tours in the US over the years and are not looking to do it again just yet. We enjoyed them immesely too and had a terrfic reception.

Subject: RE: Bob Copper on BBC TV4
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 18 Oct 04 - 07:09 PM

Well what a night it was last night (Sunday). I had already seen the Coppersongs prog on Friday evening, but watched it again last night, then we had Eliza Carthy and friends/band for an hour followed by re-showing of the programme about Sidmouth 2004 - all on BBC4. Worth going out and buying a digibox for now they can be had for under £30.
Even if I didn't get to bed till 1 a.m. but was then awake till 2.30. because of hubby's snoring!(too much information!)
TB