North Staffordshire songs

Subject: North Staffordshire songs
From:
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 03:10 PM

Does anyone know of any folk songs from North Staffordshire or nearby? Or songs that are known to have been popular in North Staffordshire? I am struggling to find out, being a classical sort...! Can you help?

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 05:10 PM

This probably won't help much,

I once heard Pete Coe sing a taditional song set in the potteries.It mentioned a story which I have always meant to follow up. The army was called to put down a big demonstration, in fact the army was ordered to fire on the marchers, but they refused. The marchers ... marched ... all through Hanley & longton etc

There is also a relatively modern song which mentioned Etruria, comparing it to the face of the moon. I know a chap who sings this song, so I might be able to find out the author.

William Taylor is said to have staffs connections, though from the Irish ranks came he.

I'm from the potteries originally, so I hope some songs do turn up.

Good luck

H

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 05:18 PM

Pete Coe did some from around there - Including Farewell to the brine about th eeffects of 'brining' salt in south Cheshire - Near enough not to notice:-)

I guess Harvey Andrews would be more your man for this - If I remember rightly he is from the midlands originaly but spent some time in Staffordshire and Shropshire I think as well as on the Mudcat. Where are you Harvey??? Keep refreshing and he may see it.

Latest I saw from that neck of the woods though was His Worship and the Pig, who hail from North Staffs and have som ecracking songs. Click here for more details.

Hope this helps and good luck with your research.

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 05:26 PM

... used the search engine ...

Found a song I didn't know 'Hanley church bells' the entry has the details of a recording.

Fenton/Burslem/Staffs didn't yield any others.

Greg Stephens is from Staffs, he may know of others.

H

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: greg stephens
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 06:26 PM

Well, it's not a song, but the Stoke Hornpipe is a cracking tune. But I think what you really need to hear is Dougie Dunn singing
"Tunstall Boslem Hanley Stoke
Fenton Longton through the smoke".
   I dont know so much about this subject as I ought. I do live here now( Stoke), but my background is Lake District,Lancashire and Cornwall. But I'm finding out what I can!

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: Compton
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 07:22 PM

I live in Staffordshire and there's not too many old songs. Even the "Song of the Staffordshire Men"...has a cornish tune!! Phil and June Colclough come from North Staffordshire...but they write songs about Ireland. Don't "His Worship and the Pig" come from North Staffordshire?...(Jeff Parton knows a few Potteries songs) John Kirkpatrick has written for the New Victoria Theatre, "The Jolly Potters"...Actually, in the days of Peter Cheeseman, the Victoria Theatre had a regional identity with many documentary plays that had some traditional material..Regretably the New Vic is just now another theatre. Will watch this thread though as I'm interested to know as well. You could, if you are in the area, try the William Salt Library in Stafford where there may be stuff. Jon Raven wrote a book of Staffordshire Folklore with some songs but there are more Black Country songs (in the olden days, The Black Country WAS in Staffordshire!

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: Ian
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 09:04 AM

I am also from the pottries and went to all he clubs in the area from mid 60s to 80's
I know the words to -through the smoke, Blackpool treat and sylicosis.
The songs that were written as part of a competition in the late 60's.
I think Jeff Parten knows one about Staffs miners - Of all the lads in staffordshire a collier lad for me. See Jason Hill who runs a club up there for Lumpy tumps - staffs dish.
Phil Colclough may be a good contact also.
See peter cheeman for songs written or adapted for the play The Knotty

I also found a song for the 1800's in a Norh Staffs Newspaper re a wrestling match between a staffs wrestler and a one from Notts.

Most folk music inthe Stoke area was wiped out by the introduction of
methodism whose brand of religion frowned on such music.

Ian Pedley

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: open mike
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 09:55 AM

maybe there is a song about Pit Bulls?
a.k.a. Staffordshire Terriers.

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From:
Date: 08 Oct 04 - 06:09 AM

Dear All

Thanks for all your suggestions and historical detail! It would be great to see all the words to the miner's song, the marching song etc. Where can I get hold of tunes, too?

All the best for now,

Simon

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From:
Date: 17 Oct 04 - 10:03 AM

back in the late 60' early 70's there were a couple of local song that use to get an airing at the red lion folk club in stoke.

one was "Silicosis" and the other was "On the Club" i think that
"Tunstall Boslem Hanley Stoke Fenton Longton through the smoke". was the refrain for "On The Club".

both songs were recorded on a Keele Rag Record around the early 70's

[e-mail]

Subject: Lyr Add: SILICOSIS
From: Compton
Date: 18 Oct 04 - 06:38 PM

Well, CliveJamesLucas What a surprise mentioning Silicosis. I Bought the Keele Rag Record and learnt "Silicosis"...some Twenty Five Plus Years ago...Can't help thinking it was written and sung by a Bob Wilson (??)...and thinking overnight...

Silicosis (Written-not traditional)

They're Steppin' abite at Fave o'clock,
Theer Snappin' in theer hand.
Dine by the Stop 'till the speshul comes arind,
They works each day a ten har shift,
And earns a couple a pind,
And live 'til they die o' Silicosis.

Me Mother, she's a Dippers Mate,
Me Fayther packs the ware.
We're areet for chaner as we duuner know nor care.
As lung as hays got a fag in his mith,
und hafe a pint a beer,
He lives till he dies o silicosis.

But things are gerrin better na that Clowes is the Lord Mayor,
They're openin' up the winders, they're lerrin' the air.
They're painting up owd Boslem, It's enough to mek thee stare.
And you may not have to die o Silicosis.

Repeat First Verse

Bring back any memories??...It did me!!
Thanks Clive.

Sorry Mudcatters if you don't fully understand "Staffycher"

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: Snuffy
Date: 18 Oct 04 - 07:24 PM

Can you still get hold of "Arthur Toecrate in Stoke"?

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: Compton
Date: 19 Oct 04 - 08:24 AM

It's Unlikely...Unless some one antiquarian Hanley Bookshop may have one.
You coold try a google search...or try for "Alan Povey" A Co-writer of "Afur Twocrate etc." (How for to !!). Good Huntin'

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: Emma B
Date: 19 Oct 04 - 01:44 PM

I've got a copy of Arfur Tow Crate (arm a dowter of the Staffy cher /Cheshire bowda)
Can't think of any songs but, we did go Cob-a-coaling as children

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From:
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 08:04 AM

hi compton i havent visited this topic for some time. yes i believe it was bob wilson who sang on the keele rag record. any ideas where i could get a copy of it i lost mine a few years ago and would like to replace it. email me sometime.

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 09 Oct 05 - 09:47 AM

I am not being geographically inept, but many years (30+) on a wet day in Sutton Coldfield hanging around til evening to go to the Folk Club where I was booked , I was reading a song /poetry book .
I seem to remember that the Lancashire Lads ( in THAT song ) were actually based (or being sent to ?) Staffordshire during the corn law riots.
I can't for the life of me remember who wrote the foreword /explanation - could it have been Mike Silver ?

Cheers Betsy

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: Ian
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 04:38 AM

There was another LP produced in Stoke Called THROUGH THE SMOKE

Several of the singers from the Red Lion Club featured on it.The disc itself suffered a defect in the pressing causing needles to jump and only a small proportion of the run were sold.

The record was produced by a guy in a record shop in Hanley. It may have been "Chapmans"???

I think the either the song On the Club or Blackpool Treat was written by Brian Bebbington.

If I remember correctly Jeff Parton's wife sang a Staffs version of the Trees they do grow high.

At the time Dudley was in Staffordshire so the DUDLEY BOYS would be a Staffs song.

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: GUEST,Mike, Halifax UK
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 05:35 AM

Bringing back memories. I remember being a student at Stoke Poly (studying ceramics!) thirty years ago and playing in a club run by a five piece accapella group 'Muggins fancy' I think Jeff Parton and Dave Boulton will know quite a few Staff's songs me ducks!
Does anyone know what the Pub/club was called??

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: GUEST,Cattail (no cookie)
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 01:36 PM

Hi all. Re Comptons reference to Alan Povey, (see above).

I recently saw a CD issued by Radio Stoke called

"Owd Grandad Piggott "No ale at the inn"". Short humorous stories.

These were *presumably* also aired by Radio Stoke, fairly recently.

The stories were written by Alan Povey, so it might be possible
to contact him through Radio Stoke if you were interested.

Cheers

Cattail !

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: nutty
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 01:38 PM

If I remember rightly, Jon Raven had connections with Staffordshire.
There must be some local songs among the huge number of Midlands folksongs that he recorded.

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: Tradsinger
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 02:03 PM

The Roud index lists about 110 songs collected in Staffordshire, but I don't know if they are from the north or south of the county. By far the most important contributor of Staffordshire songs was George Dunn and I am sure you can find recordings of him. Nutty mentioned Jon Raven who of course did a lot of work on songs of the Black Country and then there's Roy Palmer who did some collecting in the area. Sharp and Gardiner both noted songs in the county, and there's a number of children's songs from the late C19.

Most of the collected songs seem to be versions of songs noted all over the UK, but there is one called "Quarry Bank Mashers", in Roy Palmer's book "Everyman's book of English Country Songs."

Hope that helps.

Gwilym

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: Compton
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 04:04 PM

Just to update this...an enterprising sort of chap called Ray Johnson (who lectures on "the media" at Staffordshire University has reissued an old Lp onto CD called "A Souvenir of Stoke" with Jeff Partonm et al...and has some songs (not traditional) ibcluding "Silicosis"...I bought a copy myself from "Ceramica" ..up Bolsem, duck! Thay mayt gerrit theer!

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Oct 05 - 05:06 PM

What ever happed to teh Sagar Makers Bottom Knocker?

a sagar is a box made of fireclay to put pottery in so that it doesn't get all tyhe bits from the coal drooping in to the clay - a kiln within a kiln about soapbax size (biggest) and a sagar kaer was the guy who........ and the bottom knocker was not the obvious - he just kade sure the base of the sagar was properly afixed. The lid was a loose fit.

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 06 - 09:31 AM

AFAIR, it wasn't Jill Parton/McLean who sang "The Trees Grow High"
but Christine Tildesley (sp?) who was still at school at the time
of recording the record.

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 06 - 09:44 AM

My father Alan Wagg was a regular at the Red Lion FC back in the 60s
and we had a copy of "Stoke Folk" as an LP for many years. It is
obvious that this is very similar, if not an alternative pressing, to
the LP that has been referred to elsewhere in the thread.   He and I
now have the CD which combines the original recording with the Keele
Rag records of a number of years.

Dad and Brian Berrington (not Bebbington) often played together and
it was Brian who sang "On The Club" and "Boslem Wakes", which is presumably what was meant by "Blackpool Treat". It was my understanding that "Uncle" Brian wrote both songs but ICBW. Before anyone performs either song, perhaps they would like to check with
him. He lives at Boundary between Cheadle and Blythe Bridge, with his
wife Kay who also appears on the record.

Brian also appears on the record as his alter ego Albert Twemlow,
accompanying Kay and ANO on "Plougman Lad". That is also the name
he used in "On The Club", although I believe that the original name
was that of some bone idle local politician of the time but he changed
it to avoid any possibility of legal action.

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From:
Date: 16 Jan 06 - 09:50 AM

Oops, missed my handle off the previous two postings. Finger trouble.

The highlights of the Stoke Folk recording for me are Jeff and Jill Parton/McLean's contributions. Jill was a fantastic singer - whatever
happened to her? - and Jeff is a real magician at things with strings.
Mind you, his a capella version of the Bonnie Black Hare is the best
that I have ever heard. It differs quite a lot from the Carthy
words and tune recorded in Digitrad.

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From:
Date: 16 Jan 06 - 10:08 AM

Now that I've discovered this thread, I can't leave it alone.

I have in my collection an mp3 of a song called Silverdale, performed
and, I believe, written by Frank Ryan, about the closing of a pit at
Silverdale. However, I have a suspicion that it is about a mine in
Yorkshire, rather than the district of Newcastle that is more familiar
to Potters.

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: Mo the caller
Date: 16 Jan 06 - 01:36 PM

Some where or other I've got a bendy Keele Rag record from early 60's "Talking Potteries Blues". Anyone else remember that one?

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: Ian
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 08:38 AM

In Answer to Mike

If you can recall what area the pub was in I could probably tell you.

Club names could be the potteries FC, Stoke FC, Newcastle FC.

If Jeff Parton was in Muggings Fancy I dont recall him having a lot to do with the club that moved from the Red Lion when it was demolished and rebuilt at the tram museum.
That club went to various pubs over the years.
I think Jeffs went to the (Bear) in Newcastle-U-L.

The Red lion moved around. I would have to check on some of the names.
The Pack horse Longport 20 years ago
The Queen Victoria opposite old Stoke football ground.
The kings head Stoke
One in London road Newcastle.
One in Hartshill.

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 02:51 PM

Session tomorrow night(Wed 18) at the Greyhound, Penkhull. Stoke-on-Trent.

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 05:28 PM

There is a double CD of George Dunn available ; 'George Dunn - Chainmaker', Musical Traditions CD MTCD317-8. You can get this via the Musical Traditions website: www.mustrad.org.uk/records.htm. I'm sure that I could, in theory, give you a link for that - bit I'm not sure how, and why should I do all the work?!

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: Compton
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 07:23 PM

Without being pedantin (heaven forbid!)but guest,DB...The original thread was for NORTH Staffordshire Songs...and I believe George Dunn- Chainmaker will be Black Country....another world all together!!.
To my almost certain knowledge, the isn't a lot of chainmaking done in the "Potts".
Almost certainly some mudcatter will now come up with some obscure source of chainmaking in North Stafforshire!!

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: GUEST,magic gran
Date: 12 Jun 06 - 05:46 PM

hello Mo

eee, i remember the 'talkin potteries blues' rag record - circa 1964 or 5.....

"stoke under grime is a pretty little town,
famous in the north for miles around
the sun goes up and the sun goes down
you dont see too much sun in a potteries town
just potbanks
and potbanks
and around the corner - guess what -
more potbanks

i can remember more but won't bore you with it. it was a good song which gave us lots of laughs when performed in the clubs around stoke.

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: GUEST,flopflip3
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 09:33 AM

HI IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED IVE GOT THE STOKE FOLK LP FOR SALE ON EBAY JUST LOG ON AND MAKE A BID THE RECORD IS BIG IN ITALY FOR SOME REASON ANYONE KNOW WHY?

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: GUEST,Bob Wilson
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 07:09 PM

'Silicosis' is on my myspace site.
Recorded (with Jeff Parton) for an LP entitled 'a souvenir from Stoke'

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: GUEST,Jeff Parton
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 05:23 PM

Brian Berrington did write Boslem Wakes and On the Club, but sadly Brian died earlier this year.

I am working on a programme of North Staffordshire songs, which I hope to take out to folk clubs and (eventually) record.

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: GUEST,Tracy R
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 12:38 PM

There's a couple of GREAT Staffordshire Compilations by a Guy named Ed Lane/Laine/Layne..................in fact I m just trying frantically now to find some more of his work but he appears quite ellusive! Songs such as Balls of Clay - About the Pots / Gertie Getane / Red White & Stokie!!!

Honestly he's Brill!!!

Cheers

Subject: Lyr Add: NINETY TWENTY SIX AT THE ATHENAEUM
From: GUEST,Ken Whitmore
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 11:46 AM

Dear Jeff - You might remember I wrote some lyrics for you in the production of Wizards All at the Vic back in the 70s. Here's one you might like to arrange for your new show. It's got a very posh title but dunner be put off:

NINETY TWENTY SIX AT THE ATHENAEUM

He marched down to London in the mining strike
And stopped at a pub or something like

The Toffs tottered merrily in and out
And me dad went in and ordered stout

"I'm sorry, sir, you're not a member here
I'm sorry, sir, you're not a member here
I'm sorry, sir, you're not a member here
So bugger off out, you're not a member here"

Then t'King stepped up and bellowed in his ear
The King stepped up and bellowed in his ear
The King stepped up and bellowed in his ear
He took off his crown and bellowed in his ear

He said "I'll buy a drink for this brave lad
I will I'll buy a drink for this Potteries lad
I'll buy a drink for this brave lad
I will and you can put it on me tab, by Gad!"

My father told the King , "Just go and take a piss
Me Dad he told the King to take a running piss

"I'd die before I'd join a bloody club like this
I'd rather die before I'd join a club like this
You can keep your fucking beer but I'll tell thee this
I'd rather die before I'd join a club like this."

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 29 Sep 08 - 01:44 PM

When I was a young girl we used to see 'Folk Operas' at the Vic in Newcastle-under-lyme. I remember one about mining and another about the Primitive Methodist Church. My grandad was both a miner in that area and a Methodist.

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: GUEST,Jeff Parton
Date: 16 May 09 - 01:52 PM

Hi Ken Whitmore (if you're still around)

I remember Wizards All well - and I still sing Chalk & Cheese. (That's another one for any collectors of Staffordshire songs!

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply. I've only just seen your post, but with luck it won't take quite so long to come up with a tune for your Athaenium song!

Cheers
Jeff

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: GUEST,Jeff Parton
Date: 18 May 09 - 03:24 PM

Someone mentioned Frank Ryan (who wrote "Silverdale") on this thread some time ago. Does anyone have his email? I was given it but lost it. I'd like to check if his Silverdale is the Potteries one.

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs Mike Halifax
From: GUEST,david wrench.
Date: 19 Sep 11 - 02:34 PM

Folk club. was that the Kings Arms in Hill Street with Muggins Fancy and were you originally from Bridgenorth with Taoist glaze interests?

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs Mike Halifax
From: GUEST,David Wrench
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 06:26 AM

Time to dust off the slops, clear the bats, fill the arcs....the only way is up when you hit rock bottom in a city....no new spend replacing bins, set paving, jollees to Cannes, anglo saxon translations from Urdu in Houston....its community recival by direct funding in embryo cultural industries which means ceramic design studios start ups in creative residential areas along the spine of stoke and remembering our historic cultural pride &skills. You can't beat a good song in a revolution.

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: Paul Burke
Date: 10 Feb 12 - 06:20 PM

"anglo saxon translations from Urdu "

Have these been discovered in Stoke?

On second thoughts, that would be odd, since Anglo-Saxon died out (in written terms) at Peterborough about 1154, while Urdu (Horde = Army language) doesn't predate the Mongol hordes- somewhere between 1200 and 1400.

Stoke is rock bottom, but that's because the people there don't think. If they did, they'd know that the enemy don't have brown faces. They have overseas bank accounts.

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: GUEST,Bill Pickin
Date: 07 Dec 12 - 02:30 PM

Does any one know of a song called the potters alphabet? it was sung to the tune of Fairport conventions sailors alphabet off the album Babbecome Lee. the lyrics were A is fer ayup when greeting yer mates B is fer bostin when things are just great C is for chonnock a small turnip so sweet and D is for Doulton's who make potts down our street.
i can't remember what M or N was and i can't remember the whole chorus.   
which was Potteries Potteries ........................................
they talk a bit funny they act a bit strange , but they'll give their last shilling and not ask for change..
If any one knows the missing lyrics please let me know,
[e-mail] Thanks and keep up the good work.

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: GUEST,SteveT
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 04:32 AM

It's been recorded on the CD "Look Back in 'anley" by His Worship and the Pig (Jeff Parton & Dave Boulton - always my first port of call for Potteries songs*). I can transcribe the words for you if no-one else comes up with a ready-written link. I'll keep an eye on this thread – put a reminder on it if you haven't been able to get a copy of the words.

*Albums can be ordered from: His Worship and the Pig, 251 Werrington Road, Bucknall, S-o-T, Staffs: ST2 9AS, UK
£6.00 inc. p&p: Cheques (payable to "J. Parton & D. Boulton")

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: GUEST,Martin Thompson
Date: 28 Mar 13 - 12:26 PM

A few references to Frank Ryan and his song Silverdale.

Frank has been living in Staffordshire for many years and still writes excellent songs. He runs a singaround on the first Thursday each month at the Lamb & Flag, Little Haywwod nr Stafford.

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: John J
Date: 29 Mar 13 - 04:38 AM

There are some Staffordshire songs in 'Songs of The Midlands', edited by Roy Palmer, ISBN 0 7158 0177 8

JJ

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: GUEST,banjo billy
Date: 16 Jun 13 - 01:53 AM

thanks Steve i have got the lyrics to potteries alphabet now i just can't remember what the letter M stands for. do you?

Subject: RE: North Staffordshire songs
From: GUEST,SteveT
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 04:47 AM

" "M" is for Mard Arse they whinge and they whine "