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BS: They both lost the debate
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BS: They both lost the debate |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: Stilly River Sage Date: 14 Oct 04 - 10:46 PM Frontline, tonight: The Choice 2004 #2301
It's a very fair program, and boy does it make Bush look like a spoiled brat rich kid who hooked up with some of the smartest (but least honorable) operators around (Atwater and Rove). Kerry shines in comparison to George Herbert Walker's boy. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: dianavan Date: 14 Oct 04 - 10:46 PM I found that a bit odd as well. He should have said that he is negotiating with Canada for flu vaccine because the American vaccine was unsafe. As far as negotiating with Canada for our drugs, don't hold your breath. We are being warned that it will drive the price of our drugs up. I don't think Canadians would like that very much. Canadian drugs are safe if not safer. What is not safe are internet companies that say they are Canadian drugs but may not be. d |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: Amos Date: 14 Oct 04 - 10:53 PM Beardedbruce: You gotta stop twisting my words around, man. My point about Yalies was simply this: The Skull and Bones connection is not a big deal and has little or no bearing on the prospects one or another person offers for a term as president. It is simply a red herring with no real bearing on the important issues. You were trying to imply that S&B is a dangerous link is evaluating Kerry as a candidate. I say that is horsepucky. You challenged my opinion and I provided what background I could for it on short notice. End of story. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: beardedbruce Date: 14 Oct 04 - 11:02 PM A Then your comment applies to BOTH of the candidates, and you were dishonest, at least, in saying "The Skull and Bones connection is not a big deal and has little or no bearing on the prospects one or another person offers for a term as president." "This whole Skull and Bones secret voodoo hoodoo is a bunch of callow mumbo-jumbo fir for the front page of the National Enquirer. But don't tell Georgie-boy that. For one thing he probably took it serious. For another he doesn't know the word "callow". He didn't attend class that day." I never said it did have any bearing- but you inply it is a negative towards Bush. Seems to me like you are displaying a rather bigoted set of standards to the two candidates. |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: GUEST Date: 14 Oct 04 - 11:32 PM I liked your comparison Donuel! Funny, I'm proud to be a Nader/Cobb fan AND a Red Sox fan. You're never a loser when you know you are on the side with all the heart, eh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: dick greenhaus Date: 14 Oct 04 - 11:50 PM Dammit all- If you don't like either candidate much, vote for the one you dislike least. And for Gawds sake, if you don't like the system, get into local politics and try to change it. At the moment, one of the two candidates will win, and NOBODY gives a rats ass whether Nader, or Dukes or Falwell or Minnie Mouse get your vote or not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: Amos Date: 15 Oct 04 - 12:04 AM Excuse me? BB, I did not imply Bush's flaws included his S&B membership. I think in general he was a C student and it shows. He spent more time partying down than cracking books. Probably ignored Aristotle and Plato and a lot of other guys with more brains nor him. But his flaws are much more serious than a lousy fraternity membership. He is opposed to diplomacy, opposed to intelligence, opposed to the integrity of the Constitution, and treats the truth extraordinarily lightly. S&B has nothing to do with it. It did not make or break either man, helped neither one except through some transient social links, and has no bearing on the political aspects of their futures. Do I make myself clear on this point now? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: beardedbruce Date: 15 Oct 04 - 12:13 AM A You state "He is opposed to diplomacy, opposed to intelligence, opposed to the integrity of the Constitution, and treats the truth extraordinarily lightly." as if they were facts- This is your opinion. There are people who disagree with you. I do understand about S&B- but you still keep stating your opinion as if it were established fact: You might wish it to be, but saying it does not make it so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: Amos Date: 15 Oct 04 - 12:19 AM My opinions and my viewpoint are how I see it, pal. He abandoned diplomacy in favor of unilateral force. Fact. He believes his moral code should be embedded in the Constitution. Fact. He has offered at least three different rationales for his war -- regime change, nuclear weapons, biochemical warfare, and freeing the people of Iraq being among them. Fact. This constitutes treating the truth lightly. His attitude toward intelligence 0-- I mean individual intelligence -- is an opinion on my part based on observation. Feel free to ignore it. You want a second opinion? He's ugly and talks like a banderlog. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: Stilly River Sage Date: 15 Oct 04 - 12:23 AM Well of course you disagree, Beardedbruce. And just as Amos' opinion is opinion, your contradiction of his opinion doesn't make you correct, either. Yet you always argue as if you must have the final word. Like Bush, you hope that if you parrot a slogan often enough, people will begin to believe it. Madison Avenue has used that trick for years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: katlaughing Date: 15 Oct 04 - 01:09 AM LH et al...you believe everything you read on the internet? I am frankly surprised that you would perpetuate such bs, LH. Amos, I happen to agree with you about Kerry. And, I agree with Dick Greenhaus...vote the skunk out, then talk about rearranging the furniture (I liked that!) and GET INVOLVED, Locally etc. |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: dianavan Date: 15 Oct 04 - 01:54 AM Amos - Thanks for such thoughtful comments. You are right (I hope) but then again, there is a distinct possibility that your vote really doesn't count. The voting system is flawed and has been corrupted by Diebold and others. Is it any wonder that participatory democracy is losing its appeal? I am not a disenchanted youth. I contribute alot to civic politics and have been politically aware for a long time. I was probably the only 12 year old girl who saw the devastating pictures of Hiroshima. I helped hang the exhibit. I have never stopped trying to right the injustices of the world. In the face of all doubts, I have continued to research the issues. This election has brought all of my fears forward. I have kept an open mind. I have waffled. I have held firm convictions. I have doubted. I don't think I am any different than many of the undecided and if Kerry wants my vote he had better show a little more courage and stop trying to be a people pleaser. Why is he so damn nice to Bush? A gentleman? Is that what you want? A gentleman politician? I would love to discover that Kerry has the courage to do what is right and just but... I don't think he is strong enough. My best hope is that with the support of the American public, he will become strong. For all of humanity, I hope so. d |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: GUEST Date: 15 Oct 04 - 08:09 AM Kerry could have been much, much stronger had the progressive left pressured him and made demands. Now, with the majority of the progressive (as opposed to liberal) left having caved so cowardly, in an effort to appease the Democratic party (and not be accused of being "spoilers"), Kerry is beholden to nothing that is near and dear to progressive hearts, minds, and souls. But he is mighty beholden to the corporations and corporate unions that have funded him. And he just keeps moving further and further to the right with each passing day. |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: Amos Date: 15 Oct 04 - 08:56 AM DV: I think so. It happened to George. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: Charley Noble Date: 15 Oct 04 - 11:06 AM Damn! It seems in my memory of the radio version of the 3rd debate I quoted Bush out of context. His reference to "the armies of compassion" followed from his fleeting reference to "faith-based initiatives" rather than our invasion and continuing occupation of Iraq. Sorry, George. Bush does still say "freedom is on the march" in Iraq, and in my opinion if that's what "freedom" looks like, count me out. As the Iraqies are learning Bush's "freedom" is just another word for "nothing left to lose." Note that now Bush is talking about the "terrorist regime of Saddam Hussein" implying that it was a base for international terrorist acts such as 9/11. If you can't nail Saddam for having weapons of mass destruction, shift your argument and ignore the reports that conclude that contacts between Saddam and terrorists outside his country were not operational contacts. Even our well-paid consultants in Iraq are having misgivings about trying to work there, and some who worked for Titan are having to sue their management for their pay, while others like Custer are being investigated for overcharging the U.S. Air Force for their services (even setting up dummy offices in the Cayman Islands to inflate their charges). What a sorry unholy mess! Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: Amos Date: 15 Oct 04 - 01:04 PM some who worked for Titan are having to sue their management for their pay Charlie: You have a reference for this? I have never known Titan to be a minute late with pay. I have worked for the company since they acquired Visicom Laboratories three-four years ago. Titan recently lost a local employee in Iraq to a beheading, and Gene Ray (the President of the company) put out a very concerned and caring letter about it. About all he could do under the circumstances. So I am curious where this tale is coming from. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Oct 04 - 02:22 PM Kat - If I believed everything I read on the Net, I would have to be in full agreement with everyone who has posted here and on all the other political threads! (And I'd have to be out of my mind too.) :-) I have read about Skull and Bones elsewhere than on the Internet. Feel free to believe or not believe whatever you want to, for your own unique reasons. We all do that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 15 Oct 04 - 02:24 PM "Faith-based initiatives" - wouldn't that include what happened on September 11th? ................ I wouldn't think it worth getting your knickers in a twist over that Skull and Bones stuff. Unless you are the type who thinks that all that Halloweening that is going to happen all over the USA in a couple of years indicates that your country is packed full of Satanists and necrophiliacs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Oct 04 - 04:24 PM I'm not that type at all, McGrath. I do not regard Hallowe'en as any threat to society. I like the Pagan aspects of the occasion, because they link back to a lot of ancient spiritual traditions which predate Christianity. The only thing that bothers me about Hallowe'en much is that it's over-marketed (like most holidays). |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: GUEST,heric Date: 15 Oct 04 - 07:02 PM How about that revelation of Kerry's mother's death bed utterances? I wonder how many surprise zingers like that he has on tap. I don't want to say it wasn't true, but still, it somehow brought to mind some of the stories on the Bad Writing Contest thread (particularly, if memory serves, those written by Peter T.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: GUEST,heric Date: 15 Oct 04 - 07:11 PM No, it was LonesomeEJ, 07 Jun 03 - 04:42 PM, right about here |
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Subject: RE: BS: They both lost the debate From: Charley Noble Date: 15 Oct 04 - 10:01 PM I understand the Swift Boat Vetrans for Truth were not too pleased to be requested to comment on the recent Frontline ABC story involving interviews with Vietnamese who witnessed the ambush of John Kerry's boats and supported his version of the events which led to some of his medals. If you're a Bush supporter, you're supposed to post: "But what the Hell would the Vietnamese know, and who would believe them?" Hey, all you have to do is copy and paste. Charley Noble |
