Tune Req: Wind that Shakes the Barley

Subject: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 16 Oct 04 - 11:09 PM

Does anyone have a staff/penny whistle notation for this. Not the jig/reeel but the song that starts 'I sat within the valley green'

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Oct 04 - 11:39 PM

G'day Shanghaiceltic,

This Robert Dwyer Joyce song should be in any number of popular Irish song books ... it's in Patrick Galvin, Irish Songs of Resistance Oak, 1962 ... in a Bb key signature - with a final note of G ... so it would be a G minor.

The Clancys have it in an Eb signature in their The Irish Songbook, Wise Publications, 1969 - with a final note of C ... so it would be a C minor.

I'm sure someone has it set in an amenable whistle key. Em would keep you up in the upper range of a typical D whistle as the lowest note would be C# - so the best key for a D whistle would be Em, making the lowest note B. If nobody posts (after the Americans wake up) I might put it down in that key (unless you need a different one for your whistle / style / reading habits) ... and then I can see how it varies from what I play by ear!

As you want dots, I would have to send you an image of the sheet music by separate e-mail ... there is a MIDI in the DT.

Regards,

Bob

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 17 Oct 04 - 03:17 AM

G'day again Shanghaiceltic,

I had a muck about putting down the dots ... and I noted that I had pencilled in "Dorian mode" against the version in the Clancys' book. That's right ... and the range of the tune suggests it plays best, on a D whistle, as a Bm ... but that's a Dorian Bm - played with the notes of an A scale!

That way the lowest note is an F# in the lower octave (2 fingers raised) and the highest note is a B in the upper octave (5 fingers raised) so the tune sits nicely in the middle of the instrument's range ... but there are three passing G# quavers (eighth notes) ... not technically all that challenging. It all sounds very nice on my Overton Low D.

I've formatted this as a one page piece of "sheet music" ... and I can e-mail that to a suitable address, if you PM me one. (I can format it for either international A4 paper ... or American letter size - as you prefer.

Regards,

Bob

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 17 Oct 04 - 03:59 AM

If Shanghaiceltic is happy with conventional notation that's fine, but if he/she requires pennywhistle notation I can drag out my experimental whistlefont 'program' I developed a few years back which (sort of) uses ABC notation as its foundation - I could then produce a .PDF or .GIF.

Regards, John

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 17 Oct 04 - 10:32 AM

Hi Bob, I've had a new look at JAABC2PS an ABC Utility which will inter alia produce PennyWhistle Notation underneath the standard dots.

While the interface to this program is DOS command line and has a myriad of options, it really is quite simple to use for straightforward output.

The tune which I used for the query in this thread came from Mudcat MIDIs and is in 3 flats (Eb/Cm) I gather from previous correspondence that whistle players like to see the dots in D Major. All of this quite easy stuff, but a bit of stuffing around - open the MIDI file, transpose to D Major, export/convert to ABC file format and then run JAABC2PS and finally save to a more convenient image format than .PS (Postscript).

The real dilemma for me is not being a whistle player, I can never be certain that the choice of instrument key is appropriate. Once I've had a little play with JAABC2PS I'll start a new thread or re-invigorate an old one.

Regards, John

PS This utility will also do single melody/harmony TABS for just about any stringed instrument (up to 8 courses of strings) but I haven't explored this yet. I don't think that it handles lyrics?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 18 Oct 04 - 12:26 AM

G'day JohniB,

The tune "3 flats (Eb/Cm)" sound suspiciously like the Clancy's book version. Having transposed it to A major - to get the best range for the whistle - I then simply changed the key signature to D major, without transposing.

This means the tune is, indeed, written out in D major notation ... and simply calls for a couple of passing G#s in the middle of a 6/8 triple note figure. (In fact, I reckon they can be treated as G natural without anyone noticing, so they are not critical to the tune ... but they are why I treated it as Dorian!) Treating the tune as a Dorian Em means dropping off the comfortable scale - at both ends!

I don't know if Shanghaiceltic wanted specific "penny whistle notation" ... I stopped fiddling with non-standard notations a few decades back, when I realised "real" music says it all ... far more eloquently ... and it can be understood by musicians without learning some arcane symbology!

Regards,

Bob

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 18 Oct 04 - 07:07 AM

I don't know if it's the same tune, but there's a version on Martin Carthy's first LP - now available on CD.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 18 Oct 04 - 09:05 AM

G'day Shanghaiceltic,

I had a look at the other version of the Wind That Shakes the Barley song - that in Patrick Galvin's Irish Songs of Resistance. - and the tune is quite different - a shorter range: D to d ... in Eb. It's not the one I am used to hearing ... and the Clancy's version (~) is.

Dave Bryant: Shanghaiceltic wanted: "Not the jig/reeel but the song that starts 'I sat within the valley green'".

I'd give pretty good odds that Martin Carthy is nimbly fingering his way through that reel - not the Irish rebel song requested.

Regards,

Bob

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 19 Oct 04 - 05:20 AM

Bob, I was referring to the song, not the tune. It's on his very first solo LP (well Swarb's backing him on some tracks) released in 1965, and entitled just "Martin Carthy" (TSCD340) - it's the one that shows him suspended on a pallet see here - looking very young.

The disc contains:
High Germany / The Trees they do Grow High / Sovay / Ye Mariners All / The Queen of Hearts / Broomfield Hill / Springhill Mine Disaster / Scarborough Fair / Lovely Joan / The Barley and the Rye / The Wind that Shakes the Barley / The Two Magicians / The Handsome Cabin Boy / And A Beggin' I Will Go.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 19 Oct 04 - 08:11 AM

G'day Dave Bryant,

Fair enough ... I tend to think of that far back as when we all discovered Martin's distinctive guitar abilities ... but he would have done a great version of the song - albeit very much his own version.

Actually, I wasn't following too closely back then ... being busy building Hydro dams in Tasmania - I didn't get to meet Martin until about a decade later, in Sydney.

BTW: After all this discussion ... has anyone heard back from Shanghaiceltic ... ? My darling wife just suggested that the Chinese authorities might look askance at any rebel songs ... even old Irish ones ... and they scan the internet rather closely!

Regards,

Bob

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: s6k
Date: 19 Oct 04 - 08:21 AM

hello there. bob if you still have the sheet music for the song, could you send me it please???

thanks very much, ive been looking for the music or at least chords to the song, for a very long time.

many thanks!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: s6k
Date: 19 Oct 04 - 01:17 PM

sorry, my email is [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: belfast
Date: 19 Oct 04 - 04:33 PM

The version in Patrick Galvin's book differs only slightly from the version sung by Martin Carthy on that first album. Martin Carthy's version is, if you will excuse the phrase, the "correct" version. I mean it is the version you would hear most commonly in Ireland.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: s6k
Date: 19 Oct 04 - 04:59 PM

if anyone has the chords, or sheet music for it, or any other song from album "Martin Carthy" i would be GREATLY in your debt, as i cannot find anything anywhere on songs from the debut album.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 19 Oct 04 - 05:06 PM

Thanks for this everyone, been a bit tied up with moving into my new office and no I have not been arrested for singing rebel songs in China.

I am happy to work with anynotation and tweek it as needed to play on a whistle.

If you have the staff notation my e-mail address is

[e-mail]

or

[e-mail]

Regards

Frank

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 12:02 AM

G'day Frank/Shanghaiceltic (and s6k),

I shall send off the "music sheet" I created - tonight (if I don't collapse ... after a Committee Meeting of the bush music Club!)

belfast: I would suspect that the Clancys' version has had the usual energetic "spit & polish" before adopting into their repertoire ... but I note that the recorded version of this tune I have on an old LP by Sydney Irish musicians, from the local Comhaltas Ceoltoiri Ereann seems to cleave very close to the version the Clancys play. I certainly presumed Galvin's tune to be from the "original" ... although I have suspected the musical accuracy of some of the transcriptions in his book (and lots of others!). I used Galvin's version of Dwyer's words on the sheet I created - rather than the Clancys' slightly 'toned-down' words.

If I get time, I'll create another sheet with the Irish Songs of Resistance version of the tune ... and sent that to Frank & s6k at the same time (or just a GIFF scan of the dots from the book).

Regards,

Bob

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 01:21 AM

There is a sound file here, if that helps any....mine came up as WinMedia...not a Midi file...so probably no help.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 01:46 AM

G'day Sorcha,

Sad story that ... I saved the MIDI (isatwith.mid) to my drive by clicking on it and selecting "save target as ..." instead of (?) double-clicking and opening a music app.

Sad because ... although that's Dwyer's verse - the attached MIDI file ... despite the "isatwith" file name ... is actually a thumpy, rollicky rendition of the totally unrelated reel Wind that Shakes the Barley!

Regard(les)s,

Bob

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 01:55 AM

Oops then. Sorry, Bob.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: pavane
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 11:10 AM

SK6
I think that several of the songs on Martin Carthy's first album came directly from the 'Penguin book of English Folk Songs'.

The book does have the melody, but no chords.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: pavane
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 11:13 AM

See here for the new edition

Penguin book re-issued

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: pavane
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 11:15 AM

I forgot to mention, revised by (Mudcat Folk Guru) Malcolm Douglas

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 08:01 PM

G'day again Shanghaiceltic & s6k,

I have e-mailed off the music sheet of the version I'm most familiar with ... and will follow up with other version(s) when I get a chance.

Regards,

Bob

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Wind that shakes the barley
From: s6k
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 01:51 PM

Bob, Many Many thanks, i recieved the sheet musics today

Nice One!!!